Hillsong

[Bluebirdbluebell]

This YouTube channel has a new video about Hillsong. She made a video on Gwen Shamblin that people liked after it was shared in the Remnant Forum here.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:55 PM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

This YouTube channel has a new video about Hillsong. She made a video on Gwen Shamblin that people liked after it was shared in the Remnant Forum here.

I watched the video. I didn't know a lot about Hillsong, so I learned a lot. I recommend it. 

[Ozlsn]

Whistle-blower alleges Hillsong financial misconduct in court.

ABC Investigations can reveal the Australian Charities and Not-for-Profits Commission (ACNC) launched an investigation into Hillsong in March, which is examining its compliance obligations as a registered charity.

The existence of the ACNC probe was revealed in Federal Court documents lodged by former Hillsong employee Natalie Moses on Wednesday as part of a Fair Work case against the church.

The documents allege dubious financial record-keeping, the misappropriation of church finances, and claim Hillsong leaders used tax-free money for "large cash gifts" to Hillsong founder Brian Houston and his family.

Oh I am going to need more popcorn.

[Katzchen24]

Brian Houston is in the news again. The case against him has started through the courts. Quoting from an ABC article from 5th Dec 2022;

"Brian Houston argues the victim did not want to go to police, and that presented a reasonable excuse for him not to report the matter to authorities."

"Mr Sengstock told the court in the same phone call, Brian Houston accused him of tempting his father. "He said to me this is all your fault ... you tempted my father," Mr Sengstock told the court."

What an unsurprising statement from a man of God.

[Ozlsn]

From today's session:

"Hillsong founder Brian Houston told a stadium of worshippers in 2002 about how news of his father’s historical child sexual abuse had affected his own children, telling a rapturous crowd that his son’s response was “medicine to my soul”, a Sydney court has heard.

Houston, 68, was charged last year with concealing a serious indictable offence over his failure to tell police his father, high-profile Pentecostal pastor Frank Houston, had sexually abused a child in 1970."

...

"He revealed to the crowd that he had discussed the crime with his son, and told him that he didn’t want the news to affect his faith.

“He said, ‘That won’t happen, Dad … I’ve had my own revelation of Jesus,’ ” Houston said in the video.

“I could never even begin to tell you what awesome medicine that was to my soul,” he said.

“I’m up here on a public platform being able to tell you something of my story and my pain,” he went on. “The awesome thing about the supernatural is that it has an answer to anguish.”

I realise I'm not in that mindset but seriously, what?

[Ozlsn]

I've been wondering more about the timelines around the whole thing.

Frank Houston and family came to Australia from NZ permanently in 1977 (they had come back and forth earlier as part of church business).  The alleged offences referred to in the current trial started in 1970. At that point Frank Houston would have been 48.

That seems... late to start sexually abusing children. I am seriously wondering how many other victims are/were out there.

[Katzchen24]

10 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

That seems... late to start sexually abusing children. I am seriously wondering how many other victims are/were out there.

Totally agree.  I'm not an expert at all, but I'm pretty sure this kind of behaviour develops over time. And given the shelter granted to abusers who hide behind pastorship, Houston would have had so many opportunities to offend.

I'm wondering now if there were other reasons for the Houstons to emigrate. Escaping accusations etc?

[Pecansforeveryone]

I was always struck by th fact that there was only one accuser. With offenders of that age, it isn't a one off so I wonder how many more unheard victims are hidden in the shadows. 

[Ozlsn]

Apparently the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse found that Frank Houston had abused up to 9 boys in Australia and New Zealand (reported here in 2015).  I haven't found that in the actual report yet (it's... quite a big report) but I did find this:

Spoiler

In our consideration of the responses of AOGA to allegations of child sexual abuse against a senior pastor, we found that the National President of AOGA had a conflict of interest when he assumed responsibility for handling the allegations against his father. The AOGA National Executive failed to recognise and respond to this conflict of interest. They did not report the allegations to police or report the disciplinary proceedings to state authorities as required by legislation.

Yeah Brian Houston was conflicted, and he and the church leadership should have recognised that and had him step aside. 

Brian Houston's own statement made in September 2014 to the Royal Commission says that in 2000 another person who had been abused by Frank in NZ came forward, wanted to meet with Brian and they had coffee - and Brian didn't recall his name.

Per the statement he also was informed post-2000 of other rumours from the time in NZ, but Frank had assured him nothing had occurred after 1977 when they moved to Australia, and definitely not after Hillsong was founded.

I have some sympathy for Brian, in that I cannot imagine being in the position of discovering your father was abusing children. But Brian should have stepped aside when the first allegations were made, and Hillsong/AOAG should have had an independent person/team involved, and referred to the police. The church's first reaction being to try and cover it up is not exactly exceptional among institutions, but does make me wonder a lot about how many other cases may emerge.

Also I call bullshit on him not remembering the name.

[Katzchen24]

47 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Apparently the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse found that Frank Houston had abused up to 9 boys in Australia and New Zealand (reported here in 2015).  I haven't found that in the actual report yet (it's... quite a big report) but I did find this:

I'll give a trigger warning in relation to the contents of the document link below. It's not easy reading.

This sent me off on a hunt for the original report. I found it here. If you download the pdf, the section relating to Frank Houston and Hillsong is on pages 23-36. There are undoubtedly many more victims of his who have either never come forward, or come forward and been suppressed by the hierarchy of the church.

[quiversR4hunting]

I only know about Hillsong because of FJ. Did you all know TLC has a show about it on right now? "Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed. Episode 1 is on now, episode 3 is on at 8pm est and hillsong: the newest is on at 10pm est.

Shoot this is an archived thread. More searching for a new thread. 

[quiversR4hunting]

Starting a new thread because the old thread is archives. 

I only know about Hillsong because of FJ. Did you all know TLC has a show about it on right now? "Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed". Episode 1 is on now, episode 3 is on at 8pm est and "Hillsong: the newest" is on at 10pm est.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Too bad TLC hasn’t done a “IBLP/ATI: A Homeschool Cult exposed.” You know, since they seemed to promote that cult through the Duggar show for well over a decade. 

[quiversR4hunting]

7 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Too bad TLC hasn’t done a “IBLP/ATI: A Homeschool Cult exposed.” You know, since they seemed to promote that cult through the Duggar show for well over a decade. 

Very true. We can hope that one comes next 🙏🤞

[quiversR4hunting]

I don't know much about Hillsong but they are all mega auditorium rape churches, right? TLC keeps showing traditional stain glass windows (think catholic, methodist, Episcopalian traditional churches) and wooden pews and sometimes a wooden alter and tabernacle behind it. I assume these types of things are not at any Hillsong location. If no Hillsong church looks like that it makes me mad TLC is using other churches as stock reels. 

[Ozlsn]

No they're all pretty much giant auditoriums with good A/V sight lines. Not a lot, if any, stained glass. Lazy shorthand by the producers.

[quiversR4hunting]

The entire program could be triggering for some people. 

For me who only knew a very little by gleaning info from FJ, it was really good putting together the story. It also goes into prosperity gospel, live bombing and greed by the leadership while church goers can't afford food. They could have gone into that more. 

It also opened my eyes in how evangelicals are brainwashing people (women in particular) in voting against women's rights.

All in all if you don't know a lot about Hillsong (and don't think it will be a trigger for you) I suggest watching the program.

[quiversR4hunting]

7 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

they are all mega auditorium rape churches, right?

O.M.G. I meant "type churches". I don't know what happened either subconscious or autocorrect.

A possible trigger under the spoiler.

Spoiler

However, after watching the entire show rape seems to fit also. 

 

[Coconut Flan]

TLC is airing the series previously shown on Discovery + so I recorded it for this week of dead time.  Seeing Carl Lentz and I'm going maybe it's my age, but who couldn't see through that guy from day one?  Their target audience was early 20s so I'm guessing it was an appeal that he was supposedly like them.  Maybe.  He breaks all my mother's "rules" for picking a church.  Really near the top was how is the money being spent and what does the pastor wear and what kind of car does he/she drive?  Is the pastor too charismatic (think con man)?

Edited December 30, 2022 by Coconut Flan

[Ozlsn]

I'm the same - granted I have a really strong aversion to prosperity gospel, and Hillsong always pings that button for me. The rock star "pastors" though... I think I'm possibly too cynical but I don't trust a church that makes an idol of their pastors or song leaders, and I find the accountability in those scenarios goes down dramatically.

[Howl]

The Guardian is on it: 

Hillsong accused of money laundering and tax evasion by Australian MP under parliamentary privilege    Andrew Wilkie claims church money spent on ‘the kind of shopping that would embarrass a Kardashian’ as he tables alleged whistleblower documents

Edited March 10, 2023 by Howl

[Ozlsn]

I love Wilkie. This article outlines more of the claims, including that Jobseeker funds were used in part to subsidise the purchase of Festival Hall by a subsidiary company.

The whistleblower wrote in a statement alongside the alleged leaked documents that “it appears that JobKeeper funds from the Australian Government were used by Hillsong to fund the purchase of Festival Hall”.

That allegation refers to a purported email in August 2020 from Hillsong’s treasurer to other financial executives at the church, regarding Festival Hall. The email purports to show the treasurer noting the purchase would be settled in October of that year, saying the church “will be drawing on the debt for around $7-$9m – as we won’t have received all the job keeper funds by October”.

The whistleblower claims Hillsong engaged in “financial misrepresentation for the purpose of receiving JobKeeper grants”.

In the light of that the upgrade of Quarantine facilities for Brian and Bobby Houston, and family holiday in Cancun for the Houston family seems pretty tame.

I love this bit though:

Hillsong said it was “a different church now than we were twelve months ago” and pushed back on many of Wilkie’s claims.

Anyone else read this as they're throwing the Houstons under the bus?

[Ozlsn]

Hillsong leaders announce independent financial review after allegations in federal parliament.

Interesting points from the article:

- the Australian Charities and Not-for-Profit Commission are intending to investigate the use of donations for family holidays etc.

- 153 staff voluntarily resigned last year due to "overstaffing", which would save $9.47 million a year, and allow the church to spend at the "local campus level". This raises the question of how voluntary were these resignations exactly? This is important as if they had made those staff redundant there are legal obligations around paying out leave and other obligations to the employee. I'm starting to see where some of the whistleblowing might be coming from.

- very, very defensive sermon from Phil Dooley:

"If I travel internationally, I travel business class, simply because I'm going somewhere to work," Mr Dooley said.

"Last year, I only spoke in one church other than a Hillsong church and that was in Guatemala and [more than] 60 per cent of that flight was covered by the church in Guatemala. I've also paid a portion of that flight myself to cover the costs of my daughter flying with me. The rest was covered by our global church budget as I went to do ministry in both our churches in Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. In fact, that trip involved nine different flights. And not all of them were business class."

And some prime passive-aggressive responding:

"It kind of feels like being king hit from behind, but Jesus loves you Mr Wilkie".

So he had to fly business, and not all of it was business class and besides the South American churches paid for most of it anyway. Seriously, you couldn't have just gotten up at 3am and done a zoom appearance? Also I'm not sure the church in Guatemala, of all places, covering 60% of a business class flight from presumably at least the US is a good look here under any circumstances.

Finally the article makes the point that the allegations about Brian Houston and the two women were going to be investigated by an "independent body" - no reports on that have been released.

[Howl]

On 3/10/2023 at 3:18 AM, Ozlsn said:

...Jobseeker funds were used in part to subsidize the purchase of Festival Hall by a subsidiary company.

This right here.  Huge sign pointing to a financial shell game to mask the illegal use of funds.  

I'm having a flash back to Mars Hill/Mark Driscoll using funds raised from the flock  for one specific purpose, then diverting those funds elsewhere.  Just one more thing that added to the implosion of the Mars Hill empire. 

When I was trying to google about the Mars Hill fiasco, I came across this article related to Mars Hill and other mega-churches (Rick Warren enters the chat)  re: disaster relief, and who deserves it.  Apparently, Jesus didn't mean for believers to help everybody.  Oh, no, no no no!  He meant help people who believe just like you do and only those people.  

Sad about Haiti? Give to Our MegaChurch!

Edited March 13, 2023 by Howl

[Howl]

9 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Seriously, you couldn't have just gotten up at 3am and done a zoom appearance?

I follow a Twitter account that tracks the travels of private jets owned by wealthy ministries/wealthy ministers.  It's eyeopening.  They flit about quite a bit.