Hillsong

[Katzchen24]

1 hour ago, Ozlsn said:

The one that got me this morning was reading that the carer agency linked to the death of Ann Marie Smith is under the Hillsong umbrella. I haven't confirmed that but I'm now wondering how many charity linked organisations are, and why it's not more apparent.  

Am I correct in thinking that her caregiver was recently convicted? I wonder if there’s any way of finding out if they’re linked. 

[Katzchen24]

Following from my previous post, I did a little bit of lightweight snooping. I couldn't find any link between Hillsong and the care agency in Ann Marie Smith's case. The provider was Integrity Care (SA). They've been deregistered by the NDIS (12/08/2020), but the ABN is still current. The only thing I'm really sure of is that they can no longer provide disability support services funded by the NDIS. I don't know what it means in terms of being able to provide similar services to private clients. On a positive note, their website appears to be no longer operational. 

One of the Directors of IC has received a lifetime ban from providing disability support services. As far as I can see, there are other ABN's or business names registered to the directors as well. It was a disgraceful case of abuse and I hate to think what that poor woman went through.

 

Edit: I did find a disclaimer from Anglicare. There had been some misunderstanding which linked them with IC and they were VERY firm on IC being nothing to do with them at all.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Katzchen24

[Ozlsn]

30 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

I don't know what it means in terms of being able to provide similar services to private clients

I would hope the reputational damage would be sufficient that no one would employ them. I thought the directors should have been charged as well to be honest - they obviously had little to no oversight of what was happening with their clients, and there was obviously some dodgy stuff going on if the NDIS refused to register them. All the families I know who have a child with additional needs were really stressed out by this case - all of us are trying to plan for when we're not here and our children are vulnerable adults with additional needs.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Ozlsn
Phone autocorrect loves the word "mart"

[Ozlsn]

Brian Houston has resigned completely from Hillsong.

It is understood that Houston, whose father Frank founded Hillsong, submitted his resignation at 4am this morning prior to a meeting of the church’s Australian board.

At Hillsong’s Sydney headquarters, senior pastor Phil Dooley — who has stood in for Houston from early this year — relayed a message to all staff from Hillsong’s global and Australian board.

The church was now committed to a review of its governance and structures, he said.

“Irrespective of the circumstances around this we can all agree that Brian and Bobbie [his wife] served God faithfully over many decades and that their ministry has resulted in millions of people across the world being impacted by the power and grace and love of Jesus Christ,” Dooley said.

“We are extremely grateful for all that Brian and Bobbie have given to build His house.”

“We acknowledge that change is needed,” Dooley added. “We have committed to an independent review of our governance structure and processes.” Crikey understands that Dooley yesterday spoke of the need to change the culture of Hillsong from its celebrity focus.

That would be an interesting shift, if it happens.

Also a high ranking pastor was promoted despite leadership knowing of rape allegations made against him during an extramarital affair.

Spoiler

A high-ranking Hillsong pastor who allegedly raped a junior female staff member while conducting an extramarital affair was subsequently promoted to a position of more authority in the church, despite Hillsong’s leadership knowing of the affair.

The revelation is contained in an internal Hillsong investigation obtained by Crikey.

The investigation, conducted by Hillsong lawyers in the United States and finalised at the beginning of last year, probed allegations from the young woman that she had not consented to sex with the senior pastor, Reed Bogard, at their initial encounter. Bogard was married at the time.

Law firm Zukerman Gore Brandeis and Crossman made a number of findings critical of Hillsong’s actions after it was made aware several years ago that Bogard had engaged in the extramarital affair with the junior female employee.

The firm found the church leadership had failed to conduct “any meaningful inquiry” at the time it became aware and that it appeared to “uniformly assume” the relationship had been consensual from the outset, even though it occurred between “a powerful church leader and a young, low-level staff person”.

The revelation of Hillsong’s flawed approach to investigating Bogard’s behaviour follows damaging disclosures made last week about church founder and figurehead Pastor Brian Houston. The revelations also raise further questions about the ability of Hillsong’s leadership to protect young women from abuse or the church’s willingness to discipline sexual transgressors.

The leaking of the confidential 30-page report to Crikey is also a signal of how determined some senior Hillsong figures have become to change a culture of protection around those who are close to the Houstons. They also want to see a change to the boys’ club mentality at Hillsong, where there are virtually no women in leadership roles.

The US investigation found the young woman who was then working at Hillsong’s New York church as an office assistant had “confessed” about the affair to a long-serving Hillsong global board member. She had said initially it was consensual. but several years later alleged that Bogard had raped her in their first encounter. 

This led to an investigation that found that “no one at any time ever probed for more information, to try to discern how one of the most powerful men in the New York church could have found himself in a sexual relationship with a young, vulnerable junior staff member”.  

And no one appears to have questioned whether meaningful consent was possible let alone present, given the obvious power dynamic.”

The investigation also pointed to the nature of the sexual activity, which was dictated by Bogard, was marked by a lack of intimacy, and appeared to suggest that the acts were “designed to reinforce the power imbalance between them”.

It also found that Bogard had “used his position” to force the woman to sign a confidentiality agreement and non-disparagement clause “at a time that the affair was in high gear”.

The New York branch appears to have had quite a few issues, and a pretty poor culture.

[Katzchen24]

I do not believe their culture can shift. There is no real incentive for it to happen. Pastors have gotten away with assaults on their flock without consequence for far too long. The risk of being held accountable is low enough that these organisations don't feel pressured to deal truthfully with the damage being done by them. 

Edited to add: And I wonder how much $$$ will continue to flow to Houston...... And how much he received to fall on his sword.

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Katzchen24
An afterthought

[stylites]

6 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

I do not believe their culture can shift. There is no real incentive for it to happen. Pastors have gotten away with assaults on their flock without consequence for far too long. The risk of being held accountable is low enough that these organisations don't feel pressured to deal truthfully with the damage being done by them.

and besides which it is still phenomenally profitable - after all the only thing Carl Lentz did wrong from Hillsongs perspective is to have sex with the wrong woman, the rest of it, the lifestyle, the self aggrandisement, using church funds for personal gain, being the hypebeast pastor etc. that was all fine.

Edited March 23, 2022 by stylites

[Antipatriarch]

10 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

“We acknowledge that change is needed,” Dooley added. “We have committed to an independent review of our governance structure and processes.” Crikey understands that Dooley yesterday spoke of the need to change the culture of Hillsong from its celebrity focus.

Dollars to donuts, this will be another not-actually-independent "independent review," where they can control dissemination and spin of the results. Look for a law firm being named as the reviewer.

[Giraffe]

3 hours ago, stylites said:

and besides which it is still phenomenally profitable - after all the only thing Carl Lentz did wrong from Hillsongs perspective is to have sex with the wrong woman, the rest of it, the lifestyle, the self aggrandisement, using church funds for personal gain, being the hypebeast pastor etc. that was all fine.

Spot on. I bet this will actually cause many to dig in their heals. To them this will just prove how awesome Hillsong is because the devil’s working overtime on them.

[Ozlsn]

Possibly, but the Sydney church at least has a lot of disaffected members and given the amount leaking to media here they're at reasonably inside levels.  I think our current PM being a member and the getting into bed together has harmed both of them - the PM because the general attitude here is keep your religion personal, and Hillsong because... well our current PM is quite unpopular and there is increased scrutiny on them. The faithful are also questioning, which is probably not least due to the political crossover - Hillsong faithful don't necessarily vote for the PM's party and there is discussion about church leadership going on. 

Spoiler

The surge of optimism was catching. The Houston problem addressed, Pastor Phil too caught the wave. Wiping away the tears, he was soon promising that a better day was on the way.

“In this season, health and healing are our focus,” Pastor Phil said. “We will continue to build a beautiful, unified church. Continue to build, because that’s what we have been part of, so that here generations can come and stand strong and build together.”

And yet, not all were on board.

As Cassie and Phil saw a new vision, there were serpents slithering in the weeds of social media, via a live online chat which accompanied the YouTube video of the church service, allowing the faithful — and increasingly the not-so-faithful — to heckle from the bleachers.

"Is Brian in cuffs yet?” a member of the disenchanted threw in.

“How are we so happy with what’s going on?” asked another, incredulous at the hope now emerging.

“I am at one with you and Pastor Brian,” one supporter offered, only to be met with a question from a sceptic: “Yes, but are they at one with you?”

“Please let the truth come out,” one pleaded.

It was at this point, as Pastor Phil elaborated on a vision of togetherness and a new way for the church, that Hillsong’s invisible monitors swooped on the live chat and began to delete any message that questioned the new narrative.

“Why do you keep silencing us? Deleting our messages and not answering emails?” one dissident asked.

“Keep the focus on the Service,” ordered a Hillsong monitor. 

Shutting down questions while promising a better day. It seemed at that moment to capture the hopelessness of where Hillsong has ended up. 

I have to admit I'm watching with popcorn to see where this goes next.

[Pecansforeveryone]

Now that Brian has stepped down, would this mean there is no international head? Only local campus boards? There are plenty of mega churches that aren't super "franchised" and just exist as independent entities. Could the same happen for Hillsong?

[Ozlsn]

Hard to say - I would guess it depends a bit on how the churches are structured (and how the money set up is). They still have a nominal head and a council, so it may survive in spite of the Houstons stepping down.

[stylites]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:43 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

Now that Brian has stepped down, would this mean there is no international head? 

That article says that Dooley is the interim head - so I assume it very much depends on who is appointed permanently and the personal pull they have.  

[Ozlsn]

Hillsong has lost 9 of its' 16 US churches in the past fortnight.

Wow. 

In the last two weeks, Hillsong has lost nine of its 16 American church campuses, a swift and stunning decline for one of the world’s largest and most influential evangelical churches.

..

 

Hillsong exercises some control over the financial operations of each member church, though congregations set their own budgets. Churches also pass on 5 percent of the contributions they receive to the global church. In return, they receive organizational and teaching resources, and what was at one time a straightforwardly valuable association with one of the most recognizable evangelical churches in the world.

For some leaders of local Hillsong branches, the baggage has become too burdensome to be worth the benefits of affiliation.

Well that's going to hurt the coffers somewhat.

Now, Hillsong’s U.S. presence is in collapse. Its remaining U.S. locations are in the Northeast and in California, meaning Hillsong no longer has a major presence between the coasts.

[Howl]

Yes, "Hillsong" is imploding, but many of these pastors abandoning the Hillsong ship are just renaming their church with some mega church hip name and rolling right along. 

From The New York Times article linked by @Ozlsn above: 

Quote

Starting in Phoenix, Mr. Crist eventually brought six churches in two states into the Hillsong fold. Last week, he took them out.

and 

Quote

Sunday’s service was the last for Hillsong Atlanta. “We believe the Lord is calling us to move into the next season,” Mr. Collier told his congregation. Mr. Collier is launching a new church on Easter Sunday, and expects much of his Hillsong congregation to migrate there. 

and 

Quote

Another branch, Hillsong Kansas City, which launched in 2019, quietly separated from Hillsong about two weeks ago and relaunched as Kingdom City Church.

These mega churches are disaffiliating from Hillsong one Sunday,  rebranding and holding services under a new name the next Sunday. 

Hillsong is coming undone by losing the affiliation of these dues paying churches.  The mega churches themselves are still rolling along, same same. 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Howl

[Howl]

From the NYT article, elements of each church's relationship to Hillsong that point to Hillsong going for total control of each church through rigidly structured contracts. 

Red flag #1

Quote

For Mr. Crist, leaving Hillsong was the culmination of several years of doubts about the institution. He objected a few years ago, he said, when a global church restructuring disbanded his board of local leaders and put him directly under the authority of the Australia-based global board.

Red flag #2

Quote

And he bristled when he and other lead pastors were asked to sign noncompete and non-disparagement agreements in the wake of the scandal in the East Coast branches. He never signed.

Retain power and control messaging.  Authoritarian moves.

And noncompete clauses? WTAF!  

Quote

The church press office described the agreements as standard elements of their general contracts with church leaders.

This is a business, not a church. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Howl

[Ozlsn]

7 hours ago, Howl said:

Hillsong is coming undone by losing the affiliation of these dues paying churches.  The mega churches themselves are still rolling along, same same.

Oh totally. I am just shocked at how quickly the business is falling apart, and to be honest I had no idea that they had essentially franchised in the way that they did - I thought they had gone over, set up churches and attracted people from that start. It does make you wonder how much of a business front these other churches are though - they obviously believed their interests were served by aligning with Hillsong's branding.

The NDA and non-competing clauses though - wow.

4 hours ago, Howl said:

This is a business, not a church. 

And should be taxed accordingly.

[closetcagebaby]

Is anyone watching the Hillsong show on Discovery Plus? I’m one episode in and really liking it. 

[stylites]

The Guardian ran a background article last Sunday on some of the wider implications of the current issues with Hillsong, focusing on the brand - the author is Elie Hardy who wrote 'Beyond Belief': https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/27/hillsong-is-facing-catastrophe-but-the-houstons-will-be-loath-to-give-up-control

 

Quote

On Thursday Hillsong Atlanta’s lead pastor, Sam Collier, resigned, citing the ongoing scandals and accusations about various members of Hillsong. “A lot of our members were becoming really fatigued with a lot of the scandals and having to talk about it so much,” Collier said. “[Trust] is the only thing you have when building a church.”

Hip-hop-focused Hillsong Atlanta, not even 12 months old, was supposed to be a new dawn. Collier was its first African American senior pastor. He was also among the first to undergo a more stringent vetting procedure after Lentz’s downfall.

Many leaders and churchgoers were awaiting the outcome of Houston’s criminal trial in Sydney for allegedly concealing child abuse by his father before making judgments for themselves. Collier’s decision may well spark an exodus.

...
Then there’s the damage to the wider brand. Hillsong’s finances are fairly opaque, but we know from other similar churches that the vast majority of their income – upwards of 80% – come from music and merchandise sales. Some 50 million people sing Hillsong songs each week in churches around the world, and its channels have had more than a billion views on YouTube.

There's also a link to the transcript with commentary of a Staff Meeting, where they discuss the current crisis: https://www.webworm.co/p/secrethillsong?s=w
 

[Ozlsn]

On 3/31/2022 at 2:31 PM, closetcagebaby said:

Is anyone watching the Hillsong show on Discovery Plus? I’m one episode in and really liking it. 

No, I have to find if it's being screened here!! I really want to see it, heh.  How much of it has focused on the US vs the Sydney church? 

Also people tried to warn Brian Houston about Lenz's behaviour but were ignored.

"Former Hillsong pastors Zhenya and Vera Kasevich  have reported that the megachurch's founder Brian Houston, who recently stepped down following misconduct allegations, was in fact made aware of former pastor Carl Lentz behavior, but chose to ignore it because of the congregation's culture of "secrecy." Several months after Lentz was fired in 2020, a leaked audio call with Houston and other Hillsong leaders revealed that up to the time of the call, the founder did not know of any "moral" issues with Lentz.

According to the Christian Post, the explosive new Discovery Plus documentary titled "Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed" tells a different story than what was previously known. The Kasevichs, who once led a Hillsong church in Kyiv, Ukraine, alleged that they warned Houston of Lentz's immoral behavior once they caught wind of it.

"The audio from Brian did not just pop up," Vera Kasevich said in the documentary. "If you want people to know something, you find a way how to bring this narrative and how to groom people.""

Now I really want to see this documentary.

Also Brian apologised to everyone. He also described his wife as “the most Christ-like, beautiful, loyal and faithful person alive today”.

Sounds like she's forgiving him for... more than two drug/alcohol-related "unfortunate incidents".

I am finding this whole thing fascinating. 

 

[stylites]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:31 AM, closetcagebaby said:

Is anyone watching the Hillsong show on Discovery Plus? I’m one episode in and really liking it. 

I think there's a lot of things to quibble regarding how it's narrated and framed - though that's standard to these kinds of documentaries and not specific to this particular one.

If you read through the subtext though, the personal testimonies are pretty damning of the movement though, and way they treated abuse sufferers was just 👿

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by stylites

[Katzchen24]

There was a story about Hillsong on ABC's 7.30 Report last night. I've linked it in the spoiler below but I'm not sure if anyone outside Australia can access it (unless you have a nice VPN).

Either way, it wasn't flattering to Hillsong. There were some disgraceful interactions between the churches and their subsidiaries, and the money being rorted was incredible. I still find it incredible that no-one has pushed back on Scott Morrison's affiliation with them harder. 

Spoiler

https://iview.abc.net.au/video/NC2201H055S00

Also, the ABC seems to be requiring an account to be able to watch their content. 

 

[stylites]

16 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

There was a story about Hillsong on ABC's 7.30 Report last night. I've linked it in the spoiler below but I'm not sure if anyone outside Australia can access it (unless you have a nice VPN).

 

Can't access that - but from your description it sounds like it may be what is covered the middle section of this story here?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-06/hillsong-property-empire-financial-control-over-churches/100969258

The first section documents the threats made to the leaders of their Ukranian church (who seem to have kept the receipts):

 

Quote

In one email obtained by 7.30, George Aghajanian writes that he "can make things very difficult" for them "with the American authorities".

In another email, Brian Houston warns that Vera and Zhenya Kasevich "have a lot to fear" and that his general manager has "a lot of useful information for the US embassy" about the former Hillsong Kyiv pastors.

 

[Ozlsn]

Geoff Bullock is speaking publicly. He was a big name in Australian AoG circles in the late 80s/early 90s, then he sort of dropped out of sight. He is claiming that Brian Houston was well aware of the abuse allegations, as were other senior AoG leaders including him.

Spoiler

(NewsNation) — As the global megachurch Hillsong fights off criminal accusations against its former leader, a former high-ranking member of the organization says the church founder knew of his father’s sexual abuse allegations in the early 90s.

Hillsong — a massive organization with a presence in 30 countries — has come under fire in recent years with leader Brian Houston facing a criminal charge for allegedly concealing his father, church founder Frank Houston’s pedophilia. Brian Houston resigned from the church earlier this year after an internal investigation revealed details of his own inappropriate behavior with two women.

A Hillsong leader from the church’s early days, Geoff Bullock, spoke publicly for the first time to NewsNation about his 1995 departure from the church and its current turmoil. Watch Bullock’s full interview on NewsNation Prime Friday at 8/7 Central. Not sure how to find us? Use NewsNation’s Channel Finder app here.

“The whole problem with fundamentalist Christianity is that you end up feeling like you have to protect the institution,” Bullock said. “And that comes with a growing sense of fear that if you don’t protect the institution, you are against the institution.”

Ex-Hillsong member: Church covered up my assault 

Bullock says he started “The Hills Christian Life Center” along with Brian Houston in 1983 outside of Sydney, which later became Hillsong Church. He says he even named the church. Bullock oversaw the music and production of all services for more than a decade and many of the songs he wrote became global hits. When asked if the world was witnessing the beginning of the end of his former church, Bullock said:

“It’s certainly the beginning of huge change and what (Hillsong church leaders) face now is whether they continue to protect the institution and try to spin their way out of it or they’re brutally honest with themselves and really come clean.”

Neither Brian Houston nor Hillsong Church have responded to NewsNation’s requests for comment.

HOUSTON KNEW OF FATHER’S ABUSE, BULLOCK SAYS

In August 2021, Brian Houston was charged by Sydney police with concealing child sex offenses allegedly committed by his father in the 70s. While he denies having any knowledge of abuse committed by his father before 1999, Bullock claims Brian Houston had known about it much before that.

Frank Houston’s alleged victim told the Sydney Morning Herald in 2006 that he was in training to be a pastor at the time of the abuse and claimed gay conversion counseling sessions with the elder Houston were “nothing more than sexual abuse.”

Bullock says Brian Houston told him about the allegations himself before Bullock left Hillsong in 1995.

“Frank [Brian Houston’s father] performed rituals with him to try and cure him of his homosexual leadings, this was deviant behavior,” Bullock said. “This story came out after 1999 when Brian said he first found out about his father’s behavior but unfortunately the story was known about in the early 90s by a few senior members of what was then the Assemblies of God. And I know that because I knew about it.

The quote that interested me most is:

As someone who helped create Hillsong church, Bullock says today he doesn’t see the church from the early days.

“I don’t see a lot of Jesus,” Bullock said. “I look at Hillsong now, I see that every service has to be better than the last service. Every conference has to be better than the next conference. Every sermon has to be more powerful…there needs to be growth, growth, growth, growth, growth for the sake of growth, growth, growth. But I see a multitude of people that are caught up in serving this structure to make it grow as if it’s God’s kingdom, but they’re being left behind.”

Well, yes. That'd be the "prosperity gospel" bit. 

Also I am fairly outraged they don't have to pay stamp duty. Maybe places of actual worship should be exempt but other buildings shouldn't be.

 

[Howl]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:00 PM, Ozlsn said:

Also Brian apologised to everyone. He also described his wife as “the most Christ-like, beautiful, loyal and faithful person alive today”.

Sounds like she's forgiving him for... more than two drug/alcohol-related "unfortunate incidents".

Less charitably: Co-dependent enabler who doesn't want to lose her privileged position?

[Ozlsn]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

Less charitably: Co-dependent enabler who doesn't want to lose her privileged position?

She's lost it already. She was moved aside as well, as part of the board shake-up. Very uncharitably here there seems to be a small power struggle occurring with a bit of a purge as well. I - and, it appears, quite a few others - are dubious that there were only two incidents involving Brian, and there is still quite a lot of money involved.

The 7am podcast did a Hillsong episode as well focusing on Lentz and Houston. It's short (16 mins) but quite interesting.