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Hillsong Pastor Carl Lentz Fired


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That these could be considered equally disqualifying for a white evangelical pastor is Peak 20/20. 

I was reading the Twitter comments from the link in the first post, and someone asked if this disqualified Justin Bieber’s baptism (performed by the moral failure now under discussion), and then wrote

I thought 2021 was supposed to be better, but whatever.  The Biebs is here to help and thinks he can become a full-fledged minister in 1 year, pursue his music career at the same time AND SAVE HI

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13 hours ago, Howl said:

Considering, I doubt if the wife was too surprised.  

Especially given his antics when she was reportedly around: https://www.ibtimes.com/disgraced-pastor-carl-lentz-flirted-several-women-super-bowl-party-report-says-3084316

 

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The disgraced celebrity pastor, who was fired by Hillsong Church earlier this month for infidelity, attended the bash held on a yacht in Miami with another famous pastor pal, Rich Wilkerson Jr., Page Six reported. An unnamed eyewitness told the outlet that the two were "partying their a--es off" and "acting really weird."

The insider also described the 42-year-old preacher as a "womanizing manw---e." He allegedly flirted with several women during the private bash and some sat on his lap at one point, the report said.

Another unnamed source told Page Six that Lentz's wife, Laura, was also present and sitting on his lap.

 

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The insider also described the 42-year-old preacher as a "womanizing manw---e."

I'm lost.  manwhore?

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The disgraced celebrity pastor...attended the bash held on a yacht in Miami with another famous pastor pal, Rich Wilkerson Jr., Page Six reported.

What's with these wealthy evangelicals and Godly partying on yachts? 

First: curmudgeonly snark alert!  

Moving right along, I checked out Rich Wilkerson Jr's  VOUS Church web site.   vouschurch.com/ is very hip, not unlike Rich Wilkerson, Jr and DawnCheré themselves, who are rich, maybe not Joel Osteen rich, but very very wealthy. 

It's a Miami church, so yeah, somebody's bound to have a yacht.  And VOUS means YOU in French and how hip and inclusive is that, plus they have a heart for Jesus! 

But then there's this little turd buried in the Our Values section. 

#6 Honor is our calling: 

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We are vocal with our honor, meaning we are not stingy with words. We submit to leadership and are thankful for spiritual authority. We choose to joyfully submit to those God has placed over us. We honor and care for those God has placed under us.

"Submission" is the red flag that signals the authoritarianism underlying  the superficial friendliness and is IMHO the set up for abuse in all of its various disguises. Rich looks so warm and fuzzy, he's cute and hip and charming, but there's an undercurrent, a subtext, of "this is how it is or else" that's more than a bit concerning.   

VOUS Church does not have a "What we believe" section anywhere on their website that I could find, so we don't know their stance on LGBT, marriage, biblical inerrancy, grace alone, Jesus was born of a virgin, the Trinity, etc. They use a Bible called the New Living Translation

And they have VOUS Church merch!  merch.vouschurch.com/

The web site, the photos, the focus, looks like a magnet for lonely twentysomethings living in a large city. 

I also came across this from 2016: Wynwood Artists File a Lawsuit Against Rich Wilkerson Jr.'s Church for Unlawful Use of Their Artwork

 

 

 

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quiversR4hunting
On 12/18/2020 at 4:24 PM, Ozlsn said:

 

On 12/12/2020 at 4:11 PM, closetcagebaby said:

Damn I wish I could take a break from work to go to “tired rehab.”

Me too. I assume it's where you just sleep a lot, at least that's what I want!

I want it to be a place with zero alarms, nobody or animal wakes me up NEEEDINGGGG me before I want to get up and then I get to read, quilt, scrapbook, yoga, run, nap and someone else cooks and cleans for me. 

Oh that sounds heavenly. 

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20 hours ago, Howl said:

What's with these wealthy evangelicals and Godly partying on yachts? 

IKR, I've never been to a yacht party, and here are all these holier than thou types getting invites and making fools of themselves.

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Petronella
On 12/12/2020 at 8:14 PM, G33kywife said:

The church I attend had a pastor several years ago who was terminated for extensive plagiarism in sermons. During the time when he was placed on leave, he was permitted to come and address the issue with the congregation. He said he’d been going to counseling, and discovered his reasoning for the plagiarism was that he was burnt out but felt like he needed to pursue ministry at any cost. It was so frustrating as a church, and didn’t really help anyone feel better about the situation. Ugh. 

Can you expand on this a bit more? I’m interested.

Normally I’m very, VERY anti-plagiarism. In this case, though, I’m having mixed feelings. Maybe it’s because so many sermons that I’ve learned from have included the preacher sharing things they’ve read or learned elsewhere. While crediting their sources, obviously. So I’m not saying it’s okay to claim you wrote something you didn’t, but preaching based on something you learned from someone else can be normal and helpful. I just see sermon plagiarism more as bad practice than as a huge immorality. The way you describe it seems like it was a scandal. Can you elaborate?

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Jigsaw3

It's hard to make a sermon a week, especially a sermon that's relevant to that week's lectionary readings; in denominations without set lectionaries, I'm sure it's also not always easy to come up with inspiration for a topic. Not all ministers are great writers, and some topics require a lot of research; some congregations have other members who can be called upon to preach occasionally, but some ministers need to preach every week (or sometimes several times a week, if there's Wednesday and Sunday evening services or Saturday vigil as well as Sunday mass.)

Sermon collections, that provided preachers with pre-set topics, have been a thing for hundreds of years (yes, I'm not exaggerating, hundreds of years -- since at least the middle ages.) The Victorians and Georgians were huge fans of published sermon collections. One of the most famous is Fordyce's Sermons for young ladies, published in 1766: in Pride and Prejudice, Mary Bennet calls on Mr. Collins to explain something out of the book for her.

So my sympathies are mostly with your preacher, although he maybe should have cited his sources: just saying that this sermon was sourced from someone else would have cleared up a lot of the confusion. I'd be interested in hearing more about the scandal.

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G33kywife
18 hours ago, Petronella said:

Can you expand on this a bit more? I’m interested.

Normally I’m very, VERY anti-plagiarism. In this case, though, I’m having mixed feelings. Maybe it’s because so many sermons that I’ve learned from have included the preacher sharing things they’ve read or learned elsewhere. While crediting their sources, obviously. So I’m not saying it’s okay to claim you wrote something you didn’t, but preaching based on something you learned from someone else can be normal and helpful. I just see sermon plagiarism more as bad practice than as a huge immorality. The way you describe it seems like it was a scandal. Can you elaborate?

Absolutely. He was not just sharing info he learned elsewhere and crediting it. That would obviously not be plagiarism. In the most blatant example, he literally took another pastor’s sermon and presented it as his own. Pretty much word for word. It was ongoing over several months with many, many sermons. No sources cited, always presented as his own thoughts/research/words from God. 

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47of74
15 minutes ago, G33kywife said:

Absolutely. He was not just sharing info he learned elsewhere and crediting it. That would obviously not be plagiarism. In the most blatant example, he literally took another pastor’s sermon and presented it as his own. Pretty much word for word. It was ongoing over several months with many, many sermons. No sources cited, always presented as his own thoughts/research/words from God. 

The Msgr. who was the rector at the Cathedral in Dubuque a number of years ago had a brother who was a priest at another local parish. Anyways they used to joke that if one wanted to hear the same sermon twice people should go to the brother’s parish the following week.  Of course that was the two brothers having a bit of fun.  Not like what was going on here. 

That Msgr was an actual good priest.  He was so kind and understanding. If all clergy were like him I might have stayed. 

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Petronella
4 hours ago, G33kywife said:

Absolutely. He was not just sharing info he learned elsewhere and crediting it. That would obviously not be plagiarism. In the most blatant example, he literally took another pastor’s sermon and presented it as his own. Pretty much word for word. It was ongoing over several months with many, many sermons. No sources cited, always presented as his own thoughts/research/words from God. 

Thanks for replying. It’s still interesting to me that the response you described was so intense. It sounds to me like something he should have been told to stop, but not necessarily something to be fired for (unless he was told to stop and kept doing it anyway).

I could tell from your first post that he hadn’t cited sources. What I meant was that citing sources seems like it would be an easy fix. If I were the boss of someone doing this, I would encourage them that it’s okay to share what we’ve learned from others, just credit the others and also think about why learning this seems relevant. Share why it matters to you. Then it becomes your own. My point was that, foundationally, sharing others’ ideas isn’t forbidden in a sermon, it’s HOW you do it.

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G33kywife
3 minutes ago, Petronella said:

Thanks for replying. It’s still interesting to me that the response you described was so intense. It sounds to me like something he should have been told to stop, but not necessarily something to be fired for (unless he was told to stop and kept doing it anyway).

I could tell from your first post that he hadn’t cited sources. What I meant was that citing sources seems like it would be an easy fix. If I were the boss of someone doing this, I would encourage them that it’s okay to share what we’ve learned from others, just credit the others and also think about why learning this seems relevant. Share why it matters to you. Then it becomes your own. My point was that, foundationally, sharing others’ ideas isn’t forbidden in a sermon, it’s HOW you do it.

When the most blatant offense occurred, it was caught nearly immediately and brought to his attention. He was extremely remorseful and repentant and assured the staff/other leaders that it was a one time thing and wouldn’t happen again. Had it truly only been the one time, it likely would not have turned out the way it did. The elders decided to do their due diligence and check past sermons. They found plagiarism stretching back months and months. So not only was it the plagiarism, it was the blatant lying when confronted over it. It was all very sad and left a lot of people struggling with how to trust a new pastor. 

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Howl

I thought 2021 was supposed to be better, but whatever. 

The Biebs is here to help and thinks he can become a full-fledged minister in 1 year, pursue his music career at the same time AND SAVE HILLSONG!  

Justin Bieber reportedly studying to become a minister, wants to restore "order" to Hillsong

Quote

Justin Bieber is studying to become a minister — hoping to help lead Hillsong after the firing of his preacher pal Carl Lentz, according to a report.

“Justin doesn’t plan to give up his music career, but he feels there’s a bigger calling out there for him,” a source told OK! magazine.

“He wants to be a full-fledged minister next year,” the source insisted of the 26-year-old “Holy” singer.

The pop superstar has long praised Hillsong for saving him from his “dark” days of drugs, public meltdowns and arrests, becoming the church’s most high-profile backer and also a member of the choir, the report noted.

The Biebs grew close to the megachurch’s hipster pastor Lentz, finding him fame of his own — and now thinks he can help steer the church after Lentz’s firing for “moral failures,” after he admitted cheating on his wife.

“Justin believes he can take a leadership position in restoring order,” the source told OK!

“Justin has never felt happier or healthier, and he says he owes it to the church,” the source said.

 

Edited by Howl
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Ozlsn
3 hours ago, Howl said:

I thought 2021 was supposed to be better, but whatever. 

The Biebs is here to help and thinks he can become a full-fledged minister in 1 year, pursue his music career at the same time AND SAVE HILLSONG!  

Justin Bieber reportedly studying to become a minister, wants to restore "order" to Hillsong

 

He does know that any music he releases through Hillsong won't have royalties going to him, right? And his music career (it's still going?) is likely to head towards only being Hillsong? Which is still lucrative (not that that has to be the main aim), but I don't know if that's what he thinks will happen. Then again Guy Sebastian balances things, so maybe he will too. It's still coming across as weirdly similar to Scientology's recruit celebrities, get names promoting us thing though.

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Bluebirdbluebell

Beiber's music career is still going, but it's going mediocre. He released tons of music in 2020, most of it mediocrely bad. It was relatively successful, because of his obsessive fan base. Most of the critics hated his music, but he inexplicably got some Grammy nominations. 

His latest single is called "Holy" and features Chance the Rapper. It's both a love song and a song about religion. 

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Howl
4 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

His latest single is called "Holy" and features Chance the Rapper. It's both a love song and a song about religion. 

I actually like this song and I could not identify any other Bieber song.  It hit number 3 on Billboard. 

I didn't get the impression from any of the articles that he was continuing his musical career through Hillsong specifically.  I'm assuming he's locked down tight with contracts and agents for the time being.

 

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Pecansforeveryone

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/02/carl-lentz-and-the-trouble-at-hillsong#intcid=_mab-simulations-oo-bottom-recirc-2_17dbeb9e-378c-4bdc-8a38-f625f6109013_similar2-3

 

    This is a very revealing article in Vanity Fair about the toxic atmosphere at Hillsong Church under Carl Lentz. The whole Hillsong culture had its rotten roots in Brian Houston, the son of the original founder. 

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Ozlsn

"People in Glass Houses" by Tanya Levin goes into some of Hillsong's Australian issues, although it's mostly about her relationship with the church. The part where she was listening to Brian Houston totally failing to mention what his father was accused of but getting the crowd to forgive him and the church (ie Brian) for covering it up is quite fascinating to read.

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JermajestyDuggar
On 2/23/2021 at 9:11 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/02/carl-lentz-and-the-trouble-at-hillsong#intcid=_mab-simulations-oo-bottom-recirc-2_17dbeb9e-378c-4bdc-8a38-f625f6109013_similar2-3

 

    This is a very revealing article in Vanity Fair about the toxic atmosphere at Hillsong Church under Carl Lentz. The whole Hillsong culture had its rotten roots in Brian Houston, the son of the original founder. 

It reminds me a little bit of Gwen Shamblin and RF. She’s treated like a celebrity and congregants want to get close to her. All while she exploits ridiculous amounts of volunteer work from the cult members just like Hillsong.

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Katzchen24

I don't think it has been mentioned anywhere else, but It looks like Brian Houston may be stepping back from leadership of Hillsong. I'm so thrilled that another white christian fundie can simultaneously cover up sex abuse, make a shit-tonne of money and retire without consequences. The Lentz scandal was just one of many. 

 

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Ozlsn
51 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

I don't think it has been mentioned anywhere else, but It looks like Brian Houston may be stepping back from leadership of Hillsong. I'm so thrilled that another white christian fundie can simultaneously cover up sex abuse, make a shit-tonne of money and retire without consequences. The Lentz scandal was just one of many. 

 

Interesting. Wonder what's being covered up in Sydney that might blow up.

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Katzchen24
20 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Interesting. Wonder what's being covered up in Sydney that might blow up.

If I had to put any money on it, I'd say it's either something to do with another of Scott Morrison's buddies from Hillsong, Leigh Coleman, or more of the ongoing saga of Brian Houston's cover-up of his father's actions. Coleman is a former Hillsong executive (I think he left a long time ago) who has frequently been under investigation for fraud, yet still managed to collect a huge amount in federal govt grants. I think there's a bit of a scandal brewing over this.

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Ozlsn

Houston has said he's not stepping down. Source is Daily Mail, and haven't seen it anywhere else, although apparently it's on Twitter. From the article there does seem to be a bit of a shake up happening in terms of people being moved around. 

Spoiler

Houston's public denial that he is leaving his post follows a tumultuous few months, with the global church enduring a sex scandals and ugly lawsuits, notably involving disgraced pastor Carl Lentz.  

Real-estate broker John Termini as well as 'power couple' Chrishan and Danielle Jeyaratnam have been earmarked to take over from the fallen Lentz.

Lentz, who was head of the New York church before his dramatic fall from grace, also admitted to cheating on his wife last November.

In a leaked email last year, Houston admitted that Lentz had not created a 'caring' or 'healthy environment' for parishioners in the Big Apple.

...

Taking over in London will be glamorous couple Tim and Nicola Douglass, who in recent years have been leading the church in Victoria and Tasmania.

The couple have been together for more than 16 years and have three young kids.

I don't know, for some reason the description of the people taking over really, really grates on me. "Power couple" and "glamorous couple" are not terms I associate with church leaders.

Also at this rate I'm half expecting ScoMo to get a leadership role somewhere. 

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Katzchen24
1 hour ago, Ozlsn said:

Houston has said he's not stepping down. Source is Daily Mail, and haven't seen it anywhere else, although apparently it's on Twitter. From the article there does seem to be a bit of a shake up happening in terms of people being moved around. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Houston's public denial that he is leaving his post follows a tumultuous few months, with the global church enduring a sex scandals and ugly lawsuits, notably involving disgraced pastor Carl Lentz.  

Real-estate broker John Termini as well as 'power couple' Chrishan and Danielle Jeyaratnam have been earmarked to take over from the fallen Lentz.

Lentz, who was head of the New York church before his dramatic fall from grace, also admitted to cheating on his wife last November.

In a leaked email last year, Houston admitted that Lentz had not created a 'caring' or 'healthy environment' for parishioners in the Big Apple.

...

Taking over in London will be glamorous couple Tim and Nicola Douglass, who in recent years have been leading the church in Victoria and Tasmania.

The couple have been together for more than 16 years and have three young kids.

I don't know, for some reason the description of the people taking over really, really grates on me. "Power couple" and "glamorous couple" are not terms I associate with church leaders.

Also at this rate I'm half expecting ScoMo to get a leadership role somewhere. 

That's interesting about Houston. I wonder where the original story about him stepping down came from, or whether it was just made up stuff.

As for ScoMo, nothing would surprise me at this point. 

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Ozlsn
21 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

That's interesting about Houston. I wonder where the original story about him stepping down came from, or whether it was just made up stuff.

As for ScoMo, nothing would surprise me at this point. 

It was reported in the Daily Telegraph and while they are a rag they do usually have some basis behind their reports. So I am guessing it was from a source at the church and reported in terms that made them legally not liable. I would also not be surprised if the source was accurate, and there is something coming out soon while they set up their leadership long term transfer - harder to take the blame if you're not there, right? Basically I trust the Houstons about as much as I trust David Miscavige.

 

21 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

As for ScoMo, nothing would surprise me at this point. 

Genuine empathy from him would surprise the hell out of me. /cynicism

Edited by Ozlsn
No phone, I don't need an apostrophe there
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stylites
On 2/24/2021 at 2:11 AM, Pecansforeveryone said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/02/carl-lentz-and-the-trouble-at-hillsong#intcid=_mab-simulations-oo-bottom-recirc-2_17dbeb9e-378c-4bdc-8a38-f625f6109013_similar2-3

 

    This is a very revealing article in Vanity Fair about the toxic atmosphere at Hillsong Church under Carl Lentz. The whole Hillsong culture had its rotten roots in Brian Houston, the son of the original founder. 

There are some things in there that should have raised immediate red lines, but won't:

Quote

She said Lentz introduced himself as a sports agent in Williamsburg’s Domino Park

Quote

At the school, Lentz made fast friends with Brian Houston’s son Joel. According to a 2011 interview with Lentz in The Christian Post, as early 20-something students, Lentz and the younger Houston fantasized about someday teaming up to establish a Hillsong church in New York. In class, Lentz established himself as a brash and discursive presence. He’d interrupt lectures from the back of the room to pose counterarguments at length. He and Joel grew a joint reputation for their nightlife exploits.

(For reference the college they were attending was the Hillsongs College (their equivalent of theology school). 

Quote

The building served as the locus of church business in the city and the site of boys nights, to the extent that the two differed. Pastors held exclusive late-night parties that managed to make space for the models whose agencies put them up in the building and the young men of Hillsong who had proven their loyalty. “Those guys were dicking down!” says a former Hillsong volunteer who spent time at the building. (Hillsong teachings reserve sex strictly for marriage.) They hung out at neighborhood bars, getting drunk and once starting a fight. (A church spokesperson said its leadership was unaware of any inappropriate activity at the Kent Avenue address.)

Love to be in a church that brings yahoo culture to the masses. 🙄

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