Third Presidential Debate October 22, 2020

[GreyhoundFan]

For those who have the strength to watch, here's a thread about tonight's debate. I don't know if I can handle it myself. I may follow along on the Washington Post live updates. Supposedly Twitler is going to go after Hunter Biden with the newest dumb crap dreamed up by the alt-reich.

In the meantime, please enjoy Rick Wilson slamming Rudy and causing Joy Reid to bust out laughing.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Coconut Flan

[GreyhoundFan]

Speaking of the WaPo, here's a good analysis of tonight's debate: "The Trailer: What Trump and Biden each have to do tonight"

Spoiler

In death, John McCain has been venerated more by Democrats than by his own party. He's invoked as an icon of America's lost decency, he's celebrated for his vote against repealing the Affordable Care Act, and he stars in one of Joe Biden's closing TV ads.

Twelve years ago, a different McCain showed up to his final debate with Barack Obama, repeatedly demanding answers about Obama's friendship with left-wing terrorist turned academic Bill Ayers and whether a left-leaning group was planning to rig the election.

“We need to know the full extent of that relationship,” McCain said. “We need to know the full extent of Senator Obama’s relationship with ACORN, who is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.”

The whole debate was like that — a surprise to Democrats, and a shift in strategy from McCain. The Arizona Republican entered the night trailing in polls, and by the end of it, stories that had been moldering in conservative media were pushed into the mainstream. He wasn't the first candidate in that position to try something new in this setting; George H.W. Bush, for example, used the final debate of 1992 to make his sharpest attack on Bill Clinton's avoidance of the military draft. But the risk, which did not pay off either year, was discussing an issue that animated the candidate's base while leaving swing voters confused about his agenda.

“We thought it was what it seemed: a candidate who was behind late and under pressure from the base to dump the incendiary guilt-by-association stuff he was hesitant to unload earlier,” Obama strategist David Axelrod said Wednesday, recalling how their campaign viewed the third debate with McCain. “It was too little, too late. People simply didn’t buy it. It seemed desperate and out of character. Trump may well try and do the same thing tomorrow with the half-baked Hunter Biden stuff. But most Americans have made up their minds.”

Since the last debate, 23 days ago, Trump has resurrected his years-old argument that Biden's family is “stone cold crooked,” as his campaign has labeled the Democratic nominee the leader of a “Biden crime family.” If a goal of the first debate was to interrupt Biden until he lost his cool, a goal tonight will be to do it by other means, piling accusations onto the Democrat and expecting him to fray or stumble when he responds. (The candidates will be muted during the others' answers, but Trump can still try to interrupt.) And four years ago, a more-controlled Trump ran stronger in snap polls after the final debate with Hillary Clinton than an unrulier Trump did after the first.

The final 2016 debate came 12 days into WikiLeaks' ongoing release of emails hacked from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, a story that staggered the Democrat for news cycle after news cycle. Media outlets mined the emails for stories, and so did Fox News's Chris Wallace, who used the final 2016 debate to ask Clinton about a speech Trump had seized on, in which she used the words “open borders” to describe the future of the Americas.

“Is that your dream, open borders?” Wallace asked.

Clinton quickly disputed the question — “I was talking about energy” — then argued that information stolen in an email hack should be kept out of a debate. 

“What’s really important about WikiLeaks is that the Russian government has engaged in espionage against Americans,” Clinton said.

“That was a great pivot off the fact that she wants open borders, okay?” Trump scoffed. “How did we get on to Putin?”

In the windup to this debate, Trump has repeatedly referred to a new batch of emails, obtained by his attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani, and purportedly belonging to Hunter Biden. (Read the Fact Checker on Hunter Biden's alleged laptop for more.) But four years of paranoia about election interference, and media regret about the way the Podesta trove was handled, have made reporters cautious about citing any material they can't verify or know the origin of. Trump's own campaign has tread lightly, too, with some surrogates (like the president's sons) going on TV to talk about Hunter Biden, while some (like Trump's vice president) avoiding the topic unless pushed.

That all makes it less likely that moderator Kristen Welker will ask directly about the Biden family and Hunter's business. The ideal outcome for Trump is that it connects, and elevates interest in Hunter from conservative media's audience to a broader pool of voters. The risk is that it repeats his mistake of last month, and McCain's mistake of 12 years ago — burrowing into controversies that confuse anyone not paying daily attention to Fox News.

Biden has an easier task, on paper: Voters tell pollsters that the novel coronavirus, health care and the economy are the issues they want to hear about. His everything-on-the-table approach to “court-packing,” one of the few unpopular Democratic ideas he has not completely rejected, has led him into a series of politically unhelpful digressions. His answer to the question on “60 Minutes” this week — that there should be a can-kicking commission to study court reforms — is best read as a move to stay out of the weeds on this.

Biden's health-care plan polls well when he's described it, but that's been a stumbling block, too. In last month's debate, he described his updated “public option” not as a plan anyone could buy into (which it is), but as a support system for the very poor (which it isn't). “Anyone who qualifies for Medicare, excuse me, Medicaid would automatically be enrolled in the public option," Biden said, a confusing answer lost in the noise of the debate's other 89 minutes. 

But an odd answer forgotten immediately isn't the sort of thing campaigns worry about on debate nights. Had Biden truly stumbled, like when Trump challenged him to remember who in his administration had said “riots and violence help his cause,” that could have been the story of the debate. (Biden quickly provided Kellyanne Conway's name.) Even if Biden isn't interrupted, he could spend so much time denying Trump — that he doesn't want to ban fracking, that he won't raise taxes on everyone, that he has not been ensnared in a complicated scandal — that his own message gets shredded.

Obama himself may have previewed the fightback. In Philadelphia on Wednesday evening, a sarcastic ex-president referred to the New York Times's reporting on Trump's dealings with China, including a bank account in the country that had gone unused for years. “Can you imagine if I had a secret Chinese bank account when I was running for reelection?" Obama asked. 

Biden has an advantage that most candidates lack: An opponent who swing voters don't trust. McCain's 11th-hour attacks on Ayers and ACORN looked desperate, but they came from a candidate who survived the campaign with a reputation for honesty. Outside of his Republican base, Trump is widely seen as dishonest, a factor that's blunted the impact of his attacks all year. 

And Biden, unlike Clinton, is viewed by most voters as “honest and trustworthy.” A Quinnipiac poll released today found a 57-percentage-point gap, Biden over Trump, when voters were asked who had a “sense of decency," up from Hillary Clinton's 36-point lead on that question four years ago. To get through tonight unscathed, Biden needs to refute Trump. For the president to get what he needs out of the debate, he needs to indict the media, the moderator and his opponent — all with a tactic that has been tried unsuccessfully before.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[GreyhoundFan]

 

Moderator Kristen Welker is doing a much better job of keeping things going. Twitler keeps trying, but she pushes things forward.

 

 

[formergothardite]

I wonder what Trump is writing down. 

[GreyhoundFan]

[Dandruff]

This is so much more civilized than the first debate, and I think Biden - so far - is doing very well.  He's poised and is ready with succinct responses to both the questions asked and Trump's accusations.  Trump, IMO, appears much less organized, seems anxious, is continuing to downplay COVID without much apparent concern for the toll on victims, their friends, loved ones and potential future victims, and I suspect he's starting to unravel.

[GreyhoundFan]

[GreyhoundFan]

[AnywhereButHere]

Biden ends the segment talking about the 500 plus children ripped from their parents at the border, and this assclown responds with “Good”. What a complete asshole.

[TuringMachine]

Just now, AnywhereButHere said:

Biden ends the segment talking about the 500 plus children ripped from their parents at the border, and this assclown responds with “Good”. What a complete asshole.

I believe he said "go on" not good. 

Now he's saying that no one has done more for black people than him with the POSSIBLE exception of Lincoln. 

[GreyhoundFan]

 

 

 

 

[SassyPants]

They need to cut Trump’s Mic.

[TuringMachine]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

They need to cut Trump’s Mic.

Right? Why is he allowed to do this? Or blatantly not answer questions.

[GreyhoundFan]

After Twitler started with his "I've done more for black people than anyone other than Abraham Lincoln, maybe" crap, Biden said, "Abraham Lincoln here" while pointing at Dumpy. I couldn't help but laugh. Dumpy got mad.

 

[Giraffe]

41 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I wonder what Trump is writing down. 

I wonder it too. I'll bet it will turn into some entertaining memes.

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[Giraffe]

I haven't been able to watch the whole thing. Has Orange answered any of the questions asked? So far he hasn't. He's answered....whatever the hell question he pretends he heard. 

[GreyhoundFan]

2 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I haven't been able to watch the whole thing. Has Orange answered any of the questions asked? So far he hasn't. He's answered....whatever the hell question he pretends he heard. 

I watched on and off. Not really, he pivoted all over the place.  Typical Dumpy crap.

He was more subdued than in the past. I wonder if they drugged him.

[onekidanddone]

7 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

 

Someone needs a better tailor

[Audrey2]

"This guy is a dog whistle about as big as a fog horn."

I loved that line!

[GreyhoundFan]

Well, he breaks wind every time he talks.

 

[Dandruff]

I think Biden made a big mistake with his response to Trump about the oil industry.  I'm not disagreeing with what I believe to be his intent (gradually reducing our dependence on oil in favor of more environmentally friendly sources of power) but it sounded harsh and I expect there to be repercussions.

Other than that, I was really impressed with Biden and more not impressed than usual with Trump's performance.

[GreyhoundFan]

This was the last question of the evening.