Joe & Kendra 15: Mother/Daughter Pregnancies are So Not Icky

[Bluebirdbluebell]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I absolutely agree that neither Michelle nor JB are watching anyone’s kids all on their lonesome. No doubt there were auntie moms on the ready, including Anna, and likely the “care” was spotty...to each their own. My entire point being, Joy was clearly tired and exasperated at Gideon’s behaviors that morning, so she dumped him at the big house. How many mothers ITRW have that option, or would announce it so flippantly? Does Joy not see how entitled that sounds? Who wouldn’t want to clean piles of laundry and poopy carpet without a toddler under foot? MOST mothers don’t have the option of getting rid of the kid for the day, and IF they DID they’d express much gratitude for that comfort. Not these folks though. I’m telling you, it’s an alternative universe.

I don't why you quoted me I agree with you.

I guess dumping off one of her kids is okay if one of the over 18 adults agreed to watch him. I think it is likely and unfair that her little sisters had to watch him and weren't given a choice about it. Kids that age should be in school. 

If Joy is having problems managing two, she'll have a hard time managing a big quiver, which she and Austin seem to want.  Poor Evelyn will be a sister mom in no time. 

[SassyPants]

13 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I don't why you quoted me I agree with you.

I guess dumping off one of her kids is okay if one of the over 18 adults agreed to watch him. I think it is likely and unfair that her little sisters had to watch him and weren't given a choice about it. Kids that age should be in school. 

If Joy is having problems managing two, she'll have a hard time managing a big quiver, which she and Austin seem to want.  Poor Evelyn will be a sister mom in no time. 

Yes, as my comment said, I absolutely agree...I will often quote people to agree with their comment. ?

[WarriorJane]

Wow.   Not only is this some serious mom shaming, but also a dangerous message.   We should be encouraging young moms -- all moms -- to ask for help if they need it, not reinforcing the notion that there's something wrong with them if they feel stressed,  or that they are a failure and "less than" if they aren't smiling joyfully 100 percent of the time.   Joy has a two year old and an infant that she's up at night with.  That's exhausting no matter who you are.  It sounds like Gideon was acting up and she needed a hand.  Why shouldn't she go to her family?  So she doesn't appear "entitled " or "privileged"?  She doesn't owe you,  me or anyone else an explanation.   Maybe people should stop throwing those words around; they're beginning to lose their meaning.   I hate their lifestyle and their beliefs, and there are plenty of things  to be critical of, but this is not one.   

[Audrey2]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I’m trying to imagine Michelle babysitting any kids without any backup help...not seeing it. I could imagine JB babysitting, alone, before I can envision Michelle.

Maybe if Jim Bob babysits he can make Gideon his signature dish- tuna fish in BBQ sauce.

[Cults-r-us]

And why wouldn't Joy feel entitled? How many times has she been the recipient of kids "dumped" on her to watch?

[donnal]

47 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

Maybe if Jim Bob babysits he can make Gideon his signature dish- tuna fish in BBQ sauce.

Oh God, I forgot all about that ?

[JordynDarby5]

53 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

And why wouldn't Joy feel entitled? How many times has she been the recipient of kids "dumped" on her to watch?

Too bad she can't dump her kids on her parents' given how much they dumped their kids on their daughters. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, WarriorJane said:

Wow.   Not only is this some serious mom shaming, but also a dangerous message.   We should be encouraging young moms -- all moms -- to ask for help if they need it, not reinforcing the notion that there's something wrong with them if they feel stressed,  or that they are a failure and "less than" if they aren't smiling joyfully 100 percent of the time.   Joy has a two year old and an infant that she's up at night with.  That's exhausting no matter who you are.  It sounds like Gideon was acting up and she needed a hand.  Why shouldn't she go to her family?  So she doesn't appear "entitled " or "privileged"?  She doesn't owe you,  me or anyone else an explanation.   Maybe people should stop throwing those words around; they're beginning to lose their meaning.   I hate their lifestyle and their beliefs, and there are plenty of things  to be critical of, but this is not one.   

But this is center to their beliefs. Birth control is evil, have as many kids as possible, having more kids makes you a better Christian, can't send the kids to school, etc. So they're all supposed to have full quivers.  And Joy is already struggling with two kids. She can't handle the kids she has, and it's only going to get harder as they add more children until Gideon and Evelyn can act as sibling parents. 

If the adults at the TTH want to help, that would be okay. But who's actually looking after the kids? If it's her younger sisters, who are minors that have no choice and should be in school; that's pretty sad. It's also taught to these girls/women that they should help mothers even if they don't want to. 

If other people want to help a new mom, then they can. But if they don't want to help, they shouldn't have to help the mothers. 

(Also no one said they had to smile all the time.)

[Mama Mia]

13 hours ago, SassyPants said:

A stay at home mother taking a kid who spread his crap all over the carpet and who had a mountain of laundry to do after a week long staycation with a friend ...yep I’d call that out of touch with the real world and entitled. Simultaneously parenting and keeping up with the home is what SAHPing is all about. It’s all a choice. I see these folks as wanting things both ways. ITRW, most people do not have that choice. Of course ITRW, most young 20 somethings’ parents are usually working too, so the option of dumping kids isn’t available.

In what world? Most families I know live near each other and help each other out. Most grandparents and aunts and uncles will take someone else’s kids for the day or a few hours so mom or dad can have a break. That’s what  families do.  They sure don’t judge and snipe about how a mom of a newborn and a toddler needs to just toughen up. Even if the grandparents are working, they make time when they can. 

3 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

But this is center to their beliefs. Birth control is evil, have as many kids as possible, having more kids makes you a better Christian, can't send the kids to school, etc. So they're all supposed to have full quivers.  And Joy is already struggling with two kids. She can't handle the kids she has, and it's only going to get harder as they add more children until Gideon and Evelyn can act as sibling parents. 

If the adults at the TTH want to help, that would be okay. But who's actually looking after the kids? If it's her younger sisters, who are minors that have no choice and should be in school; that's pretty sad. It's also taught to these girls/women that they should help mothers even if they don't want to. 

If other people want to help a new mom, then they can. But if they don't want to help, they shouldn't have to help the mothers. 

(Also no one said they had to smile all the time.)

Good lord, that is incredibly mom shaming. She’s over her head and can’t handle the two kids she has because of a bad day with a poop smearing toddler? If that was the criteria, literally no one should have children. No one said anyone was “forced” to watch her kid. It is what family just does. Or friends. Her parents, sure, or adult sisters, but also there is nothing wrong with her young teen sisters spending a couple hours helping out. There’s a huuuugggeeee gap between full time sister- mom scullery maid , and lending a hand.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

2 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

In what world? Most families I know live near each other and help each other out. Most grandparents and aunts and uncles will take someone else’s kids for the day or a few hours so mom or dad can have a break. That’s what  families do.  They sure don’t judge and snipe about how a mom of a newborn and a toddler needs to just toughen up. Even if the grandparents are working, they make time when they can. 

Good lord, that is incredibly mom shaming. She’s over her head and can’t handle the two kids she has because of a bad day with a poop smearing toddler? If that was the criteria, literally no one should have children. No one said anyone was “forced” to watch her kid. It is what family just does. Or friends. Her parents, sure, or adult sisters, but also there is nothing wrong with her young teen sisters spending a couple hours helping out. There’s a huuuugggeeee gap between full time sister- mom scullery maid , and lending a hand.

This isn't most families. Maybe in certain families. Not in my world. My parents had very little free help. 

Anyway these people are quiverfull. Their core beliefs are that they should have as many children as God can give them. It's telling that most of these young women are overwhelmed and they've barely begun having kids. If someone like Joy can be this overwhelmed by two kids, what will she be like with a dozen?

There's probably a fine line between fundie-snarking and "mom-shaming."  Despite going after the Christian Patriarchy movement, Free Jinger mostly criticizes the mom blogger/Instagram/public figure crowd. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Bluebirdbluebell

[EmiSue]

2 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

This isn't most families. Maybe in certain families. Not in my world. My parents had very little free help. 

Anyway these people are quiverfull. Their core beliefs are that they should have as many children as God can give them. It's telling that most of these young women are overwhelmed and they've barely begun having kids. If someone like Joy can be this overwhelmed by two kids, what will she be like with a dozen?

There's probably a fine line between fundie-snarking and "mom-shaming."  Despite going after the Christian Patriarchy movement, Free Jinger mostly criticizes the mom blogger/Instagram/public figure crowd. 

She had a bad day. She asked for help. This doesn't imply she's consistently "overwhelmed" by two kids. It means she's HUMAN. I'd give my right arm some days to have a place to drop kids off for a couple hours on a particularly hard day. I'm glad for any mom, fundie to raging liberal, who has that option. Leave her alone for goodness sake. 

[WarriorJane]

Where do get "overwhelmed" and "struggling" from?  She had a bad day.   

She's been brainwashed her whole life to believe this is what she should do.   Hopefully she and Austin will realize the realities of Quiverfull, decide it's not for them and stop at 2 or 3.  Hopefully they all will.  

[Mama Mia]

Serious question, do moms on here, or moms of your acquaintance NOT feel overwhelmed, or have laundry room breakdowns, or generally lose it and go cry or scream somewhere once in awhile? My own experience tells me that’s common, friends and family tell me that’s common, all the many memes tell me it’s common.......

[sableduck]

35 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Serious question, do moms on here, or moms of your acquaintance NOT feel overwhelmed, or have laundry room breakdowns, or generally lose it and go cry or scream somewhere once in awhile? My own experience tells me that’s common, friends and family tell me that’s common, all the many memes tell me it’s common.......

I think it’s very common.

I also must live someplace unusual, because my mom friends frequently post on Facebook about their moms(usually, sometimes a sister or an aunt) taking the kids for the afternoon so the mom can get caught up on chores or shopping or whatever. I’ve done it almost weekly I’d guess since my oldest was born ten years ago. If they don’t have the kids, but my mom and MIL are calling to see when they can have them for the afternoon. My SIL doesn’t have children so she asks for mine frequently. I love watching the relationship between my kids and their families, and it does help me out a lot.  This isn’t uncommon at all in my circles—but most of the people I know live near family.

[Silas]

The idea that Joy is forever overwhelmed because she had one bad day with a toddler is just not accurate. Yes, if she's overwhelmed every single day of her life and constantly needs extra hands then maybe it's time to stop having kids but we don't know that. Of course she's going to reach that point if she has 19 like her mom but she hasn't reached that point yet and asking for a little help every now and then is normal.

If one day of "overwhelmed" equates to problematic than I guess I shouldn't have a single child or any pets or any responsibilities ever.

47 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Serious question, do moms on here, or moms of your acquaintance NOT feel overwhelmed, or have laundry room breakdowns, or generally lose it and go cry or scream somewhere once in awhile? My own experience tells me that’s common, friends and family tell me that’s common, all the many memes tell me it’s common.......

Very common. I don't know of a single parent that's never felt overwhelmed, whether they had one child or five. I flat out don't believe anyone who says otherwise.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Joy and Austin, and Joe and Kendra seemed to me to be among the most entrenched next generation fundies. And because they're young and cute, they get a lot of defending among snarkers.  Based on Tumblr, I say Joy and Austin even have leg humpers among snarkers. 

I think everyone has bad days and most moms have bad days, but most people can't just drop their kids off somewhere. 

My real point is that if Joy can't handle; how is supposed to handle the big quiver she is supposed to have? The center of their beliefs is that mom can handle everything. In five years, she's supposed to be homeschooling and taking care of the little ones and be pregnant. And her lifestyle  that the fundies consider superior is built on the idea that mom can do it all. But if she's having trouble now, it's only get harder with each baby. How many grandbabies in general will be too much for the TTH crowd to take care of?

Also Michelle didn't think the laundry room breakdown was normal. She felt she was really struggling and it showed how hard she was trying. Afterwards, she asked for help.  She already had 7 kids, and what the help did was allow her to continue to fill her quiver. 

[Silas]

2 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Joy and Austin, and Joe and Kendra seemed to me to be among the most entrenched next generation fundies. And because they're young and cute, they get a lot of defending among snarkers.  Based on Tumblr, I say Joy and Austin even have leg humpers among snarkers. 

I think everyone has bad days and most moms have bad days, but most people can't just drop their kids off somewhere. 

My real point is that if Joy can't handle; how is supposed to handle the big quiver she is supposed to have? The center of their beliefs is that mom can handle everything. In five years, she's supposed to be homeschooling and taking care of the little ones and be pregnant. And her lifestyle  that the fundies consider superior is built on the idea that mom can do it all. But if she's having trouble now, it's only get harder with each baby. How many grandbabies in general will be too much for the TTH crowd to take care of?

Also Michelle didn't think the laundry room breakdown was normal. She felt she was really struggling and it showed how hard she was trying. Afterwards, she asked for help.  She already had 7 kids, and what the help did was allow her to continue to fill her quiver. 

I know i just replied but I just wanted to add to your thoughts.

I think we can all agree at this point that Joy is headed towards an inappropriate amount of overwhelmed if she continues to have kids at the rate of her mother (or even close to that). I doubt anyone would dispute that. I think (for me anyway) the problem is really just with the idea that Joy "can't handle" her two. I'm sure Joy can handle her two...but a little extra help doesn't hurt. I'm sure if no one was there to watch Gideon she'd figure it out as most mothers do. Seeking help doesn't mean you can't handle your kids, just that a little help would make life easier and that's normal and okay. I don't know a single parent that couldn't use a little help with something once in a while.

The idea that she "can't handle" her two just because she asked for help likely sits poorly with a lot of people because most parents have wanted help before, that doesn't mean they can't handle their children. Just IMO.

[Angelface]

I’m hoping for a bit of common sense from Austin seeing as his father, whom he appears to really respect, had a total of four children by two wives. I cannot see Austin wanting to be drowning in kids and chores relating to kids and I don’t think he wants that for Joy either. One can but hope!

[UnicornHunter]

As a military spouse I can say in such years of parenting I’ve never been able to drop my kids off with family for the day, and nearly every military spouse friend I have could say the same. It’s very hard to find reliable childcare when you move every two years, and even if you could it’s hard to afford much since it’s also very difficult to find a new job every two years. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I think a better phrase is Joy has the luxury of dropping a kid off at a family home when she's having a bad day.  We are assuming she dropped him off because had a bad morning & had lots to do, they may have called to ask her to bring him over or she had planned to take him there.  That aside, you can be overwhelmed with 1 kid on a bad day and if you have the luxury of family/friends who don't mind helping out with the kid(s) why not use them?  

[clueliss]

In one if their YouTube videos, I got the impression that Johanna wanted to watch Gideon when Joy dropped him by the big house on her way to an appointment.  

[SassyPants]

I thought the F’s lived some distance from the TTH. I’m thinking if I was a busy mom and had many things to do before my husband came home from a trip, the last thing I’d want to do is load the kids into the car and drive some distance ( I thought I’d heard 45 minutes) each way.  + you’d have to stay a bit, not just push him out of the car. It seems to me you’ve just lost several hours. 

[AussieKrissy]

9 hours ago, sableduck said:

I think it’s very common.

I also must live someplace unusual, because my mom friends frequently post on Facebook about their moms(usually, sometimes a sister or an aunt) taking the kids for the afternoon so the mom can get caught up on chores or shopping or whatever. I’ve done it almost weekly I’d guess since my oldest was born ten years ago. If they don’t have the kids, but my mom and MIL are calling to see when they can have them for the afternoon. My SIL doesn’t have children so she asks for mine frequently. I love watching the relationship between my kids and their families, and it does help me out a lot.  This isn’t uncommon at all in my circles—but most of the people I know live near family.

We need a green with envy button. 

[Smee]

I have three kids, and we’re done. Mr Smee has been snipped, youngest is now 4 years old, I’m making plans for when she starts (public) school in another year, done. I am not fundie or quiverfull. But when my eldest was 2 and my middle child was a few months old, did I get overwhelmed? Yes. Did I cry? Yes. Did I wish my mum didn’t work and live 3 hours away, so I could ask her to watch the toddler for just an hour or two so I could catch up on stuff around the house or god forbid even take a nap? Yes. Did I go on to have a third kid anyway? Yes. And fuck off if you think I shouldn’t have had my youngest because I would have taken help with my toddler, had it been available to me.

Joy is lucky to have family she can call on a bad day and I’m a bit jealous of that but I wouldn’t begrudge her it. She’s managing 2 kids at ages I found really hard, she’s doing it in the midst of a global pandemic, with a husband who isn’t there right now, and she likely still has bad days where grief and pain from her loss takes over. I’d be more inclined to judge if she didn’t ask for help when she needed it, because her kids need a healthy stable mother long-term much more than they need her there every damn second of every day. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Smee

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, Smee said:

I have three kids, and we’re done. Mr Smee has been snipped, youngest is now 4 years old, I’m making plans for when she starts (public) school in another year, done. I am not fundie or quiverfull. But when my eldest was 2 and my middle child was a few months old, did I get overwhelmed? Yes. Did I cry? Yes. Did I wish my mum didn’t work and live 3 hours away, so I could ask her to watch the toddler for just an hour or two so I could catch up on stuff around the house or god forbid even take a nap? Yes. Did I go on to have a third kid anyway? Yes. And fuck off if you think I shouldn’t have had my youngest because I would have taken help with my toddler, had it been available to me.

Joy is lucky to have family she can call on a bad day and I’m a bit jealous of that but I wouldn’t begrudge her it. She’s managing 2 kids at ages I found really hard, she’s doing it in the midst of a global pandemic, with a husband who isn’t there right now, and she likely still has bad days where grief and pain from her loss takes over. I’d be more inclined to judge if she didn’t ask for help when she needed it, because her kids need a healthy stable mother long-term much more than they need her there every damn second of every day. 

All of this! Well said.