Dillards 87: Experts on Everything!

[DalmatianCat]

52 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

I wonder if it has bred any resentment?

It might be one of those things that none of the kids minded when no one was getting paid, BUT now that Jill has admitted she didn’t get paid they might start questioning the compensation plan to themselves. I can see Austin and Lauren ducking out of events they don’t enjoy with the philosophy of “I’m not getting paid, and don’t enjoy this, so why bother?”

Edited October 22, 2020 by DalmatianCat
Typo

[JenniferJuniper]

25 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

It might be one of those things that none of the kids minded when no one was getting paid, BUT now that Jill has admitted she didn’t get paid (and , they might start questioning the compensation plan to themselves. I can see Austin and Lauren ducking out of events they don’t enjoy with the philosophy of “I’m not getting paid, and don’t enjoy this, so why bother?”

Didn't Derick claim at some point in the fairly recent past that Joy and Austin wanted out of the show?

[FluffySnowball]

2 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Also, Jill revealing that she was never paid, does make it seem like Jeremy and Jinger must have that rumored separate contract. I wonder if that’s part of why Jeremy doesn’t go to Arkansas often. Might be awkward with the BILs to know Jeremy gets paid for showing up and they don’t. 

I believe that’s one very possible reason Jinger and Jeremy don’t travel to Arkansas often, but I bet they also really enjoy their life in LA and away from the Duggars. Jinger wanted out (at least to some extend). Her expressed wish to live in a city and Michelle’s embarrassing (and totally unnecessary) back paddling show me that she wasn’t in a situation where she could express her wishes freely.
Now, she has a handsome hubby, not a huge number of children (yet, let’s see how this goes...), a new style including pretty hair and makeup and some nice pants, and she lives in a big city. Not sure Tontitown sounds so appealing now... especially if she has to toe JBoob and Michelle’s line while there. 

[Silas]

I honestly think it's only a matter of time before money tears that family apart. With all those children and spouses? More than Jill is going to eventually demand to be paid. I have watched families that were far closer turn on each other for less cash. I would say I'm not sure how JB didn't see this coming but well, he's JB. He probably thought all of his children were controlled enough to never question Daddy Dearest but his failure in not seeing this as an issue with in-laws is baffling. (Okay it's really not, I'm sure Jimbob thought he was so great that future spouses would also fall at their feet for him)

Does he see the sticky spot he's in? Either he starts paying them all or he's gonna be the one following their orders. Pops, buy me that bigger house or I'm pulling a Jill. Then imagine 19 kids doing that. Yeah, the majority of them are probably happy to toe the line right now but money is one of the biggest motivators in the world, especially when you have a hoard of children to feed...something they're all headed towards (minus a few). Jill fell first, I will be 0% surprised if the rest eventually fall like dominos. Not because they've seen the light or they're "free" or they no longer agree with the family's religious beliefs but...$$$.

Hopefully the show is gone in nine years or else the grandchildren will start entering adulthood and that's a whole other can of worms. Yikes.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Silas

[Expectopatronus]

I’m curious to see how many of the adult children follow the path that Joy and Austin have chosen and only appear occasionally on the shows. I see it as being kind of a middle ground; they are freer to live their lives and make their own political, religious and family decisions but don’t have to have permission to see their siblings. Derrick likes to stir the pot; he reminds me of the kid in the classroom who challenges everything the teacher says because they need the attention, the power they get and thrive on conflict. He and Jill were right to step away from the show and hire an attorney but I don’t think that Jill has loved the conflict nearly as much as he has. I think Jill is doing what is necessary to heal, get healthy and thrive but Derrick is enjoying the drama. I could be wrong about him but this is the impression I get. 

[anjulibai]

I really hope this is leading towards a book deal. 

[becky_m2001]

4 hours ago, Silas said:

Hopefully the show is gone in nine years or else the grandchildren will start entering adulthood and that's a whole other can of worms. Yikes.

Dear God, I can't handle the thought of them having that show for another NINE YEARS! #KillMeNow

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, becky_m2001 said:

Dear God, I can't handle the thought of them having that show for another NINE YEARS! #KillMeNow

JoshGate was FIVE years...time keeps ticking. Josie is almost 11!

[Kayleigh83]

17 hours ago, Irishy said:

I keep seeing comments about how Joy and Austin have also distanced themselves from the show. This is simply not true. Joy and Austin featured in almost every episode of the most recent season of CO. They don’t appear in the promo shots, but they are very much full time cast members.

Yes, I’m confused about this view as well. They’re very prominently featured in the show so I don’t know where this idea they’ve stepped back is coming from at all.

I think it will be interesting to see how things unfold in the future in terms of whether other kids pull a Jill as well (either just ideologically or also seeking financial compensation). It’s just as easy to imagine that some will stay in the cult mindset that is all they’ve ever known in their lives, as it is to imagine some who, more than ever now after what happened with Jill, have those seeds planted in their mind of what else is out there in the world for them to experience. Only time will tell...

[AprilQuilt]

18 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

By estimating between $25k & $45k per episode there were 227 XX Kid & Counting episodes before Josh's scandal's broke.  Assuming those were paid at $45k that is $12.5 million (US) over the course, then the 93 episodes of CO we'll say those paid out at $25k that is another $2.3 million over the last 5 years.  Having to prorate each child's screen time is impossible, well not impossible, but beyond time consuming and that is just dumb for this, say each kid got $1k per episode once they were over the age of 5 and $500 for each episode from birth to 5 yrs. Since Jill was over age 5 in all episodes that is $227,000 for just the 19KAC episodes, for the 93 episodes of CO of which Jill is only in approximately 27 episodes , I'm going to up Jill & Jessa to $5k for these 27 episodes because this was Jill & Jessa counting on. That would be another $135,000 Jill earned, totaling $362,000 US that JB owed to Jill, at minimum. 

JB should have put $X aside per child per episode and used the rest for their living expenses and such, He's made probably close to $15 million with just the show alone, including specials, then add in speaking fees, books, and he's a wealthy man, who's kept all the money for himself to piecemeal out to each child to make sure they stay under his thumb. I'm honestly surprised Jeremey didn't demand payment, or maybe he did, JB just kept it quiet, and that is how the Vuolo's are living in LA without jobs.  

When you lay it out like this, it is truly shocking that JB made NO provision for his kids' future. I don't understand what sort of parent would not put money his children earned aside for them, except for one who was utterly uninterested in his kids' autonomy or their right and potential to do whatever they liked with the rest of their lives... oh wait!

Just... the pig-headedness of it. Of not prioritising setting your kids up for life because you believe you will always be the one in charge. And I guarantee that many of the kids are totally on board with it, and feel that they have 'agreed' with JB that he will be in charge of the money and will take care of whatever they need. They may not even be conscious of the huge bizarre weight of obligation this puts upon them.

For them it won't feel like dependence, it will feel like solidarity, or how families are meant to function, they believe in JB's supremacy just as they believe in the correctness of their faith, and it's all part and parcel. They pulled together around Josh during his scandals not only because their faith compels them to forgive,  not only because their flavour of Christianity tells them to expect persecution, but because for them Brand Duggar is righteous. If their ministry is appearing on TV then rallying round the flag is not only spiritually desirable, not only about family loyalty, it is economically fortuitous too. Faith, family, and money are so bound up, one with the other. You can't extricate one thread without the whole thing unravelling.

If they looked around themselves they would see it doesn't have to be like this, and it shouldn't be. I hope others follow Jill, but I think they'll each do things a little differently.

Edited October 23, 2020 by AprilQuilt

[HideousGreenShirt]

I am here for sassy Jill:

[ExTeach713]

5 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

If they looked around themselves they would see it doesn't have to be like this, and it shouldn't be. I hope others follow Jill, but I think they'll each do things a little differently.

I think we’ll see others pulling away, especially the girls as they marry and have spouses with a different upbringing. They will do things differently, but I don’t think Jinger and Jeremy’s family will look anything like the Duggars, and I don’t think Austin wants to be under JB’s control. So far, Ben appears to be the most willing to fall in line with JB.

The females who married Duggars seem more willing to do things the Duggar way. I think Kendra and Joe will be the couple whose family and way of doing things looks the most like JB and Michelle, probably because the Caldwells also have that lifestyle.  Jessa and Ben will have a big family, but I don’t see even those two approaching 19. Josh and Anna will never do anything different or productive. I can see Josiah and Lauren having a smaller family and maybe even moving away to be closer to Lauren’s family when they move back to Georgia. I believe John David and Abbie will also have a smaller family and I can see Abbie returning to nursing if the circumstances are right.

Every little change is a step in the right direction. I think it will be interesting 10 years down the road to see if all the child couples are still together, how many children they have, whose kids go to public school, who breaks free and goes to college, etc. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Frankly, I think her use of 'Karen' is super bitchy.  I don't blame her for stating that yes, she threw out the flashlight, but adding 'Karen' is unnecessary.  It's not 'Karen' behavior to point out a complete lack of common sense or basic safety precautions, both of which she has been guilty of multiple times.  

And what's the obsession with posting gross stuff your child does?  It's not like her kids are special or original...kids are just gross in general. ?

Edited October 23, 2020 by Snarkasarus Rex

[SassyPants]

Why didn’t JB $et the kids up? 
Because he put his blessings to work to support themselves and the family.

Let that sink in. They had the kids working to support the family, and then used them further by having the older kids raise the younger kids.

JB is really winning now. WHY?

Because he still controls the TLC earnings, isn’t having any more kids, and Jana is still at home to raise the youngest kids.

I despise JB and M’s terrible parenting practices.

 

[viii]

15 hours ago, anjulibai said:

I really hope this is leading towards a book deal. 

I would actually be really interested in a book from Jill. Less from Derrick, but I'd still read it, lol. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

2 minutes ago, viii said:

I would actually be really interested in a book from Jill. Less from Derrick, but I'd still read it, lol. 

I think Jill and Amy should write a book together.  Screw Derick.  

[SassyPants]

And the worst thing about JB’s approach- He’s had a public media presence to sell his way as better for families. What the ever loving F. No, parents refusing to work themselves and continuing to have children that they can not support on their volition, is not a viable plan. It is child exploitation, plan and simple. 

[seraaa]

On 10/22/2020 at 4:47 PM, Idlewild said:

The figures are shocking. It sort of serves JB right that he is now having to support Josh, Anna and their expanding family as it’s a perfect example of how he had created these co dependant adults. He is almost certainly supporting in part Jessa, Josiah and Joseph as it’s unlikely they can afford to run houses, cars and unlimited kids on what they earn. I expect he has come to an arrangement with Jeremy to fend off any further scandal and no doubt big bucks are going into Jeds campaign as I think that is JB’s real ambition- political control. 

Wild that if he'd given each what they had earned, it would have been enough capital to springboard their independent lives. But of course we can't be having that.

[Idlewild]

23 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

And the worst thing about JB’s approach- He’s had a public media presence to sell his way as better for families. What the ever loving F. No, parents refusing to work themselves and continuing to have children that they can not support on their volition, is not a viable plan. It is child exploitation, plan and simple. 

I agree and yet TLC keep renewing that contract despite multiple examples of toxic behaviour by this family which can be firmly placed at the door of JB & M.

Doesn't it occur to TLC that continuing to allow this couple to push their way into the filming ( and this is absolutely deliberate on their part as it’s clear JB thought the original show should never have been cancelled for ‘common Christian family mistakes’ ?they are endorsing systematic coercive control - withholding funds, education, friends and family relationships to manipulate the behaviour of 19 children? 
If the show finished I think you’d find quite a few more rejecting the JB control.

[seraaa]

6 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

When you lay it out like this, it is truly shocking that JB made NO provision for his kids' future. I don't understand what sort of parent would not put money his children earned aside for them, except for one who was utterly uninterested in his kids' autonomy or their right and potential to do whatever they liked with the rest of their lives... oh wait!

 

Exactly! They were not even given a choice about what happened to it. Now, some might have been perfectly happy to keep a portion in the collective family pot - likely, because this is how they've been taught! - but you'd think that was a decision the adult kids would get to be part of.

Jim Bob's and Michelle's choices here, man.

Edited October 23, 2020 by seraaa

[Tangy Bee]

39 minutes ago, viii said:

I would actually be really interested in a book from Jill. Less from Derrick, but I'd still read it, lol. 

And if she does, I hope it reaches NY Times best seller status. I will be at Barnes & Noble before it opens. 

[seraaa]

6 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

For them it won't feel like dependence, it will feel like solidarity, or how families are meant to function, they believe in JB's supremacy just as they believe in the correctness of their faith, and it's all part and parcel.

Yes! I place the responsibility for this whole situation on their parents, at this point.

[OHFL2009]

2 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Frankly, I think her use of 'Karen' is super bitchy.  I don't blame her for stating that yes, she threw out the flashlight, but adding 'Karen' is unnecessary.  It's not 'Karen' behavior to point out a complete lack of common sense or basic safety precautions, both of which she has been guilty of multiple times.  

I was confused by it at first, because it doesn't make any sense in context. I don't really post on Instagram so I'm not sure if this is likely, but I was thinking maybe she was using voice-to-text to add the caption and it changed "trash can" to "trash Karen." They sound similar enough that I could see that happening, and trash can certainly makes more sense given the context. But maybe she just doesn't understand the meaning of the "Karen" meme (which I don't like anyway, given the several very nice people I know named Karen). 

[HereComesTreble]

About Jill not getting paid for the Counting series, would TLC have some responsibility to make sure she was paid?  I have no idea how that works.
Thanks to FJ, I learned the Coogan Child Actor’s Bill is limited to California (I though it was nationwide).  So that wouldn’t apply to Jill.  But what about the Screen Actors Union or something like that?  Aren’t production companies obligated to ensure their employees are getting paid (especially minors)?

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I find it funny that Jill is spilling the beans. Jim-Bob handpicked Derrick as her husband in spite of growing up outside ATI/IBLP going to public school and to state university. Hilarious