Dillards 87: Experts on Everything!

[OrchidBlossom]

Idk if this will help anyone make a decision about the vaccine for themselves or their children but I'll tell a story: a friend of mine had the HPV vaccine as a teen (maybe around 14 or so, probably around the same age I got it). No reactions (I actually don't know anyone who reacted to it though I have read about some bad reactions), moved on with her life, nary a thought to it for years. She was in a serious relationship with a man and they didn't use condoms because they were serious/exclusive/they had other birth control. They never discussed whether she was vaccinated. She had asked him before they started having sex if he had been screened for STIs, etc, she tried to be responsible with the conversation, she's usually pretty open with that stuff. TWO YEARS into that relationship he casually told her he had given his former partner HPV. She felt very betrayed by the fact that he withheld that information from her without even knowing if she was protected. And she was very grateful to have had the vaccine.

My point being that even when people try to be responsible, things can happen. And being protected, I think, can be a benefit. Of course some people are allergic to ingredients in certain vaccines or are deathly afraid of needles or have other needs that make a vaccine difficult. So I get that it isn't always an easy decision. I don't have kids, but I think when/if I do, I'll have them vaccinated for it unless there is a compelling reason not to.

[The Mother Dust]

1 hour ago, OrchidBlossom said:

 TWO YEARS into that relationship he casually told her he had given his former partner HPV. She felt very betrayed by the fact that he withheld that information from her without even knowing if she was protected. And she was very grateful to have had the vaccine.

She dumped his ass, I hope?

[Jinder Roles]

@candygirl200413 I know of so many young women who got HPV after their first sexual experience. Usually in committed, monogamous relationships with a partner that has been tested and even sometimes when condoms are being used. 

You can even be a "virgin" and be exposed as its transmitted through oral and skin contact. 

I didn't have a bad reaction but one of my friends did and didn't finish her course. Unfortunately, she then got a high risk HPV strain...

It's a personal decision but I highly encourage everyone get it. 

Sincerely,

Your Resident Gardasil Evangelist. 

[medimus]

Like I said,  HPV is super super common. It is normal to get a strain with a first sexual relationship. But there are hundreds of types of HPV AND most people's immune system will get rid of the HPV strain on it's own within a few years. It also takes a decade on average for any problems to develop. This is why in countries with a national screening programme (for pap smear tests) they often start at age 25. Before that the chances are really high that you'll have an active HPV infection that doesn't develop in to anything.

The numbers coming out of places like Scotland where they had an early, very high uptake of the HPV vaccine are amazing. The cervical cancer levels have really dropped and the oldest women (only girls being vaccinated originally) are only early thirties so the full extent of the decrease isn't known yet.

It makes sense that at the start more people were denied the vaccine and that more groups have been offered it since. Originally it was only studied on girls before they were sexually active so they only recommended it for that group. Then it was expanded by age, after first sexual contact and to boys. 

[Iamtheway]

On 11/25/2020 at 9:35 PM, baldricks_turnip said:

I always assumed with the Duggars it wasn't so much about forcing them to stick to the rules via supervision, it was about them being above reproach. We don't have to take their word for it that they only held hands, they never had any opportunity to do anything more.
I have a religious friend that stayed a virgin until marriage (very unusual here), and she dated her now-husband normally, would visit his house alone at night, etc. While her parents were also religious and supported her in waiting, her commitment was between her and God and they saw no point in policing her.

My friend did this too! She even spent the night at the boyfriend’s house and shared a bed with him. Lots of her friends gave her a hard time about it but they were adults that had made a decision and stuck with it. 

[OrchidBlossom]

12 hours ago, The Mother Dust said:

She dumped his ass, I hope?

Eventually, yes, although it was a difficult time for her. She's much happier now.

[just_ordinary]

On 11/27/2020 at 12:30 AM, Expectopatronus said:

I don’t know what decisions my daughter will make and part of my job as her mom will be to educate her regarding sexual health. If she chooses to become sexually actively outside of marriage, then yes, absolutely I will encourage her to use condoms, get the vaccine and have yearly STI screenings. Neither my sister nor I chose sex before marriage so we really didn’t/don’t need the vaccine. This was our choice and may not be the choice our kids make- and that will be okay. I’m learning that it is okay for me to make different parenting decisions than others and that it doesn’t mean that I’m wrong. 
I love the diversity of opinions that have been shared!! 

Let’s just hope her respective partners are responsible and open if they had sexual encounters before. Especially as sex can mean different things (only piv for example). And a man might not even know he carries it. 
Thankfully the vaccine will have been around a long time till my children reach the age where this decision has to be made. So I don’t feels it a Guinea Pig situation. 

[Born Skeptic]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:30 PM, Expectopatronus said:

I don’t know what decisions my daughter will make and part of my job as her mom will be to educate her regarding sexual health. If she chooses to become sexually actively outside of marriage, then yes, absolutely I will encourage her to use condoms, get the vaccine and have yearly STI screenings. Neither my sister nor I chose sex before marriage so we really didn’t/don’t need the vaccine. This was our choice and may not be the choice our kids make- and that will be okay. I’m learning that it is okay for me to make different parenting decisions than others and that it doesn’t mean that I’m wrong. 
I love the diversity of opinions that have been shared!! 

I am not picking on you, this was just a convenient relevant quote to use.

As others have said, HPV is highly transmissible and extremely common.  About 79,000,000 in the US are currently infected with it and 14,000,000 become newly infected each year.  Currently, one person dies of an HPV related cancer every 90 minutes!  While multiple partners is known to increase the risk, it is possible to get the virus even in a monogamous relationship as the other partner is likely unaware of being infected.  Normal STI screening does not often include HPV screening.  Standard protocol is to test women every 5 years (along with a PAP test) after age 30.  Under age 30, women may be tested earlier or more frequently if they are high risk or have an abnormal PAP test.  Condoms are great and offer some protection, but areas not covered by the condom are not protected.  As someone who has battled HPV related cancer and lived to tell the tale, vaccination to prevent this cancer is far preferable to chemotherapy and radiation.  

[Johannah]

Jumping on the vaccine promotion bandwagon. Even if you or your daughter choose to abstain from sex until marriage, thereby having only one partner, what are the odds that your husband will have engaged in zero sexual activity prior to marriage? Extremely low. If he has had even one other sexual partner then you will be exposed. And what if he cheats on you? Dies? You get divorced? Raped?
 

I see a lot of posters talking about wanting bodily autonomy for their daughters. Bodily autonomy means not having to worry about cervical cancer while being married to a non-virgin, or on top of infidelity, death, divorce, or rape.
 

No one plans on drowning, and yet it is advised to wear a life jacket in deep water situations even if you can swim. Same with seatbelts. Because there are potential unforeseen circumstances outside of your control that could lead to death. I don’t see anyone moralizing life jackets and seatbelts, or discussing bodily autonomy as a factor in deciding whether or not to wear them. 
 

HPV is everywhere. When the vaccine came out it was estimated that something like 90% of people carried at least one strain. Your odds of escaping exposure is almost zero, regardless of your sexual choices. Why would you not eliminate the risk if you could?

[patsymae]

Why would you not eliminate the risk if you could?

 

I'm with you. Can't help harking back to a different era when so many women became infected with HIV because they were sure their partners were monogamous.

 

I wrote an article once about street prostitutes and the cops told me that the clients were invariably middle class married pillars of the community from the suburbs whose wives had no clue what they were up to.

If the vaccine can't hurt you in some way, why not go for it.

[Satan'sFortress]

My oldest son was probably in one of the earliest groups of boys to get the HPV vaccine. We discussed it as much as possible so a tween ish aged kid could understand and he decided to get it,  with our backing too. The thing that convinced me was when several women friends were discussing HPV. Came to find out several had had cervical cancer.  They outright asked those of us with sons to have them get the vaccine.  

Interestingly,  neither of my sons had any reaction to it,  whereas so many girls I know literally passed out.  I wonder if it is different for the boys?

[JDuggs]

41 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Interestingly,  neither of my sons had any reaction to it,  whereas so many girls I know literally passed out.  I wonder if it is different for the boys?

Just my theory. At first, when just the girls were getting it, some girls were passing out because they were getting up too quickly after the shot. By the time the boys were getting it, they were making all of the kids getting the shot sit for 15 or 20 minutes before getting up.

[Casserole]

2 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

My oldest son was probably in one of the earliest groups of boys to get the HPV vaccine. We discussed it as much as possible so a tween ish aged kid could understand and he decided to get it,  with our backing too. The thing that convinced me was when several women friends were discussing HPV. Came to find out several had had cervical cancer.  They outright asked those of us with sons to have them get the vaccine.  

Interestingly,  neither of my sons had any reaction to it,  whereas so many girls I know literally passed out.  I wonder if it is different for the boys?

I passed out during the first round, after telling the doctor I could feel it moving through my body (she confirmed I was not crazy, the shot is more viscous and thicker than others, and that I was probably correct)

The second round, I vomited, passed out, had a fever for two weeks following and had a whole onslaught of autoimmune and weird health issues in the immediately following two months ... which, like, sure, causation doesn't equal correlation, but I am suspect. There was clearly an immune reaction triggered. (I was also the very first round of girls getting it as soon as it was released. I wish we waited for more studies and trials.)

My doctor, mom, and I decided not to administer the third round. I wouldn't call myself anti-vax by any means, but I am not sure I would consent to my child getting Gardisil. Sorry. 

[indianabones]

I got at least two of them. No side affects.

[Expectopatronus]

@Casserole I don’t blame you! I’m sorry your experience was so horrific. My cousin’s daughter had a serious allergic reaction to a vaccine and hasn’t received any others. I’m not in any way anti-vax but I understand when you’ve had a terrible reaction being very cautious. 
I’m fortunate in that I have only ever had one adverse reaction and my kiddo did fine following her 4 and 6 month vaccinations. 
Interestingly, my cats are fine after their shots but one of mom’s boys runs a fever, doesn’t eat and just sleeps after his. Some mammals seem to have a harder time than others. 

[Idlewild]

I am in my 50s & in England- one of my earliest memories is a reaction to the polio vaccine I had as a toddler. Fortunately I made a full recovery. That said I can remember older children who were disabled by polio and my mum told me parents were terrified of their children getting it.

I have the flu jab every year and I’ll have the Covid-19 jab once it’s cleared by the regulatory authorities- looking at the NHS criteria I’ll be down on the list to receive it but my mum should be one of the first. I realise it’s an intensely personal decision but  I believe we’ve taken good health for granted - and that is due in part to vaccines (I know things like sanitation and economic status play a large part too).

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@Satan'sFortress neither of my daughters had any reaction to the jab

[Casserole]

9 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

@Casserole I don’t blame you! I’m sorry your experience was so horrific. My cousin’s daughter had a serious allergic reaction to a vaccine and hasn’t received any others. I’m not in any way anti-vax but I understand when you’ve had a terrible reaction being very cautious. 
I’m fortunate in that I have only ever had one adverse reaction and my kiddo did fine following her 4 and 6 month vaccinations. 
Interestingly, my cats are fine after their shots but one of mom’s boys runs a fever, doesn’t eat and just sleeps after his. Some mammals seem to have a harder time than others. 

Thank you! And that's not to say my answer about that particular vaccine for potential future offspring would be an absolute "no" but I would need a lot more research and stats and doctor consults before I'd be comfortable. I also had the first generation of the vaccine, which I assume may have changed for the better over the years. 

[feministxtian]

I got revaccinated for quite a few things before my newest granddaughter was born. TDaP, MMR and Shingrex. I would probably go ahead and get a COVID 19 shot when it becomes available. Admittedly I would like to see what kind of reactions/side effects are more common, as I tend to end up with the weird side effects (who the hell ever heard of abdominal pain being a side effect of morphine???) I'm a firm believer in "shooting up". I was too old for HPV and so was my daughter. My older granddaughters have both had the shot even though neither one are sexually active. I think the other kids will probably get it when they are old enough...but that's up to their parents. I'll give my advice IF asked. Otherwise, as with other things, I keep my mouth shut. I don't get involved in those decisions. I'm pretty much over making big decisions...I've made enough of them. 

[viii]

My best friend was a virgin when she slept with her boyfriend. They got married and she found out she had an STI at her pregnancy check up with their third child. Marriage isn’t always safe.  

[Mama Mia]

5 hours ago, Casserole said:

Thank you! And that's not to say my answer about that particular vaccine for potential future offspring would be an absolute "no" but I would need a lot more research and stats and doctor consults before I'd be comfortable. I also had the first generation of the vaccine, which I assume may have changed for the better over the years. 

My daughter had pretty similar reactions as yours, which is why I was surprised she had her daughter get it just routinely. ?‍♀️ . She’s also just always been kind of sickly- fatigued, low energy, gets every bug around......Worse since the Gardasil though...Her sisters were either too old when it came out, or don’t have children that age yet to decide. Of the girls in our family who did receive it, she was the only one who had a bad reaction. 

[Jinder Roles]

Not to invalidate anyone’s experience, but a lot of the bad reactions I hear about are Gardisil 4 related. 

I got the newer Gardisil 9 last year and only my arm was slightly sore for a couple days. 
 

Could it be that the vaccine has improved over time? 
 

I can also acknowledge that some people don’t receive vaccines well. But it seems like most people had a bad reaction to the first Gardisil. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Jinder Roles

[Kailash]

@Jinder Roles I think it has improved. Also, I believe it’s fewer doses. When they first offered it to my daughter it was a series of 3 shots. Now it’s only 2.

[nvmbr02]

5 hours ago, Kailash said:

@Jinder Roles I think it has improved. Also, I believe it’s fewer doses. When they first offered it to my daughter it was a series of 3 shots. Now it’s only 2.

If you start the series of shots before your 15th birthday it is 2, after it is 3. I didn't have it but my oldest daughter completed the series of 3 (it was still 3 shots when she had it 6 years ago), my son had the 2 shot series right after the change and my youngest just had the first of her two doses. My oldest had a pretty bad reaction to the first shot, but it wasn't as bad with the next two. It could have just been a fluke thing, but she got very faint and dizzy. She also had a weird bubble thing under her skin for a good 4-5 days after. My other two haven't had any issues (so far). 

[Whooping_Butt]

If you’re into podcasts Sawbones did a great one on the HPV vaccine. It touched on many things brought up here. It’s episode 288.