Dillards 87: Experts on Everything!

[CarrotCake]

12 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Do we have any kind of gauge on how common "chaperoned" courtships really are in fundiedom? I know, courtship became a big deal thanks to I Kissed Dating Goodbye. While I know hanging out alone behind closed doors was discouraged, I don't remember "chaperoned" courtships being a thing.

To me it seems like it is connected to the no-kissing-rule. If you don't mind kissing and some innocent cuddling before marriage there is no need for chaperones. Of course a couple theoretically could book a hotel room for a day or hook up in a restaurant bathroom but it is quite 'safe' to just go out for dinner or take a walk in a public park.

But as soon as you start to forbid things that 'normal' people do in public, like kissing, handholding and hugs, you need a chaperone.

[just_ordinary]

9 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

To me it seems like it is connected to the no-kissing-rule. If you don't mind kissing and some innocent cuddling before marriage there is no need for chaperones. Of course a couple theoretically could book a hotel room for a day or hook up in a restaurant bathroom but it is quite 'safe' to just go out for dinner or take a walk in a public park.

But as soon as you start to forbid things that 'normal' people do in public, like kissing, handholding and hugs, you need a chaperone.

But don’t you know? We all hold hands after dinner before we jump all over each other in a dark side street 5 minutes later..... 

Handholding without a chaperone will most definitely lead to a hock-up. If not your doing it (the heathens way of life) wrong

?‍♀️

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

10 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

I didn’t know this was an option. My girl had a very high fever after her 2 month vaccinations and I would have spread out her 6 month ones if I had known that I could do that. She was fine that time but I might ask if she can get her flu shot at a different time than her 12 month vaccines. 
I didn’t get my HPV vaccination as a kid (my parents disapprove) and I may let my daughter choose whether or not she wants this one  but given that she’s 11 months right now, it’s hardly a pressing issue. 

Ask your ped. My youngest was born just as the 'vaccines cause autism' BS started, it coincidently (or not) coincided w/ the explosion of the internet and chat rooms. Anyway, I was a SAHM so I didn't have any daycare or school regulations to meet up w/ so I spread out her vaccines, her brother also had a mild but nasty reaction to a round of vaccines, so he was also having his spread out after that. she got the MMR in 3 shots instead of one. It wasn't a lot of extra visits and she was behind about a year in her vaccinations the dr wasn't overly happy with that long of a delay but went along w/ it after listening to my concerns about her brothers reactions.

HPV vaccine came out when my dd was 6 or 7 and they wanted girls to get it at 11/12 and I was like NOPE we're gonna wait until we see some long term side effects. It wasn't recommended for boys until my kids were teenagers so I never considered it for him. My son started getting the shot at 18 and my dd refused it at 17 when she had to get her meningitis vaccine to start her Senior year)  but relented a year later and got it at 18. 

[baldricks_turnip]

6 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

To me it seems like it is connected to the no-kissing-rule. If you don't mind kissing and some innocent cuddling before marriage there is no need for chaperones. Of course a couple theoretically could book a hotel room for a day or hook up in a restaurant bathroom but it is quite 'safe' to just go out for dinner or take a walk in a public park.

But as soon as you start to forbid things that 'normal' people do in public, like kissing, handholding and hugs, you need a chaperone.

I always assumed with the Duggars it wasn't so much about forcing them to stick to the rules via supervision, it was about them being above reproach. We don't have to take their word for it that they only held hands, they never had any opportunity to do anything more.
I have a religious friend that stayed a virgin until marriage (very unusual here), and she dated her now-husband normally, would visit his house alone at night, etc. While her parents were also religious and supported her in waiting, her commitment was between her and God and they saw no point in policing her.

[fundiefan]

2 hours ago, baldricks_turnip said:

I have a religious friend that stayed a virgin until marriage (very unusual here), and she dated her now-husband normally, would visit his house alone at night, etc. While her parents were also religious and supported her in waiting, her commitment was between her and God and they saw no point in policing her.

That's the thing with the chaperones and parental over-involvement and 6 "rulers and everything else that just rubs me every wrong way. It is not at all impossible to make a decision and stick to it. No matter what. Sure, it's hard. Sure, there are temptations - especially when hormones are involved. 

But, if you truly believe you should not have sex before marriage, then, um, don't have sex before marriage. If it's truly a conviction, you don't need chaperones & rules. You need a conversation between you & the one you're involved with, and sincere commitment to & belief in your choices. 

My oldest niece, who is far from fundie, casually dated a few guys in high school but never wanted a "relationship". She was heavily involved in dance and had a large circle of friends and had academic goals that were pretty high. SHE decided not to include a relationship in her life, and you know what? She didn't have one. 

Every one of us makes decisions about our lives and stick to those decisions. Sure, life throws shit at you and you sometimes have to readjust. Or, you just reevaluate and change course. But, all in all, no grown adult needs a babysitter to make sure they don't go back on their "chosen" commitment. 

 

[patsymae]

The chaperoning always reminds me of the scene in The Godfather where Michael is walking with his intended in Italy and they are trailed by a boatload of her relatives.

I think a lot of it is to protect their "reputation" and that of the family. If the couple walked into a dark movie theatre alone, people would talk and the value of the girl, as well as others in her family, would be lower.

[mpheels]

13 hours ago, SweetLaurel said:

I was told that they were set up that way thinking it would get more kids vaccinated, if they did multiples.  If you had two toddlers, and an infant and have to ride the bus and then wait two or more hours in the drs office and maybe take the day off work, you simply aren't coming in every week to do something that could be done in one visit.  

Yes, exactly. The CDC schedule is designed to meet needs at the population level, to maximize the number of kids with the full slate of vaccines in a timely manner. Most parents are going to do better with multiple vaccines per visit, and fewer visits overall. For parents that are more comfortable spacing vaccines out a bit, and they have the time/energy/resources to make it to more visits, then it’s better to work with that if the alternative is kids not getting vaccinated at all.

[JDuggs]

22 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

I didn’t get my HPV vaccination as a kid (my parents disapprove) and I may let my daughter choose whether or not she wants this one  but given that she’s 11 months right now, it’s hardly a pressing issue. 

That’s going to be a very frank discussion with an 11 or 12 year old girl on the HPV vaccine. I’m not sure if she’ll be able to predict how many sex partners she’ll have in her future at that time. Maybe she can decide to only sleep with virgins?

Do you think the vaccine is harmful?

[Mama Mia]

It’s so weird, it feels like the HPV shots JUST came out - but my daughter who got it when it came out in her late teens - her daughter just got her first dose for middle school ? 

[Kelsey]

I don't understand the argument that simply getting the HPV vaccine encourages underage/premarital sex. Granted it (the vaccine) wasn't a thing when I was a teen but we literally never taljed about getting HPV. I wasn't sexually active in HS but many of my friends were and we only really discussed getting pregnant or getting Aids. People would joke about other things like having the drip or the clap but HPV wasn't on anyone's radar. I just can't imagine a teen/young adult being like yup, let's go ahead and fuck, I got a vaccine when I was 12. Most teens and young adults have a feeling of invincibility anyways and I don't think the hpv vaccine would factor into a decision significantly (or really at all).

*I think the vaccine came out when I was in my mid 20s and already married. I never got it but all of my younger siblings did.*

[Expectopatronus]

2 hours ago, JDuggs said:

That’s going to be a very frank discussion with an 11 or 12 year old girl on the HPV vaccine. I’m not sure if she’ll be able to predict how many sex partners she’ll have in her future at that time. Maybe she can decide to only sleep with virgins?

Do you think the vaccine is harmful?

Where I live you can get the vaccine free until your 23rd birthday. No, I don’t think it’s harmful but I also don’t see it in the same light as the other vaccines where you are protecting yourself and others against diseases that are highly contagious. With those viruses, part of being a responsible community member involves protecting individuals who cannot receive the vaccine from an illness that can have devastating effects. However, I also want her to have some level of autonomy over her body and given that HPV is not airborne, this vaccine can be a choice. That said, I may see things differently in 12 years. 

[Mama Mia]

28 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

Where I live you can get the vaccine free until your 23rd birthday. No, I don’t think it’s harmful but I also don’t see it in the same light as the other vaccines where you are protecting yourself and others against diseases that are highly contagious. With those viruses, part of being a responsible community member involves protecting individuals who cannot receive the vaccine from an illness that can have devastating effects. However, I also want her to have some level of autonomy over her body and given that HPV is not airborne, this vaccine can be a choice. That said, I may see things differently in 12 years. 

Truthfully, I was surprised my daughter had her daughter get the HPV vaccine, when she herself got it at 16 she had a pretty bad reaction, I don’t know if she forgot, or figured it’s worth the risk. As a Grandma involved in their daily lives, I TRY to keep my medddling comments and questions to items that directly impact me ?

[medimus]

HPV is highly contagious though! 80-90 % of sexually active people have HPV virusses. Most of the time they don't end up causing any harm, but cervical cancer does harm a lot of women worldwide. But that's true for most of the other bugs that vaccines protect against. The reason we have them is to protect against the small percentage of really bad reactions.

55 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

Where I live you can get the vaccine free until your 23rd birthday. No, I don’t think it’s harmful but I also don’t see it in the same light as the other vaccines where you are protecting yourself and others against diseases that are highly contagious. With those viruses, part of being a responsible community member involves protecting individuals who cannot receive the vaccine from an illness that can have devastating effects. However, I also want her to have some level of autonomy over her body and given that HPV is not airborne, this vaccine can be a choice. That said, I may see things differently in 12 years. 

 

[Jinder Roles]

I don’t get the controversy either. Everything I’d heard about Gardisil was extremely negative. No health care provider ever mentioned it to me. My parents never considered it.

I had to do my own research when I learned about HPV as a college junior. Unfortunately there’s a lot of inaccurate anti-vax shit on the internet to sift through 

I finally brought up getting it to my doctor when I was 2 years ago (when I was 22) She told me “just don’t have sex until you’re married” and scared me with false information. 
 

I got a new doctor and finally got my vaccine last year. 
 

Educate your kids about sexual health folks! The vaccine definitely protects others. 80-90% of people will have at least one strain in their lifetime. It causes most cervical cancers in addition to throat, vulva, anal and penile cancer. Most STI tests don’t include HPV and it cannot be reliably tested for in men. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Jinder Roles

[mpheels]

HPV is transmitted through skin to skin contact, and does not necessarily mean PIV sexual intercourse. Oral HPV can causes oral and throat cancer. Vaccination can prevent that. Sure, your kid might grow up and have just one sexual partner ever, and that person also has only ever had one sexual partner, but that seems unlikely. On average, people in the US have 7 sexual partners over the course of their life. The lowest state average is 2-3 in Utah. HPV vaccination is about building herd immunity, just like any other vaccine.

(and PSA for the young gen-X and elder millennials out there - if you were just a little too old for HPV vaccination when it was first released, talk to your doctor. The guidelines changed a few years ago, and it’s now recommended up to age 45)

[JanasTattooParlor]

I’m in my mid-20s and got my Gardisil shots from ages 11-12. At the time, I was told that it was a shot that would help prevent cancer later down the road and I don’t remember there being any controversy about it. By that point I also knew nothing about sex since I was really sheltered though, so using the explanation of preventing cancer worked for me. I didn’t react poorly to the shots and the only thing I hated about it was that it required three shots and I hate needles and wanted all three shots at once.

[Flossie]

2 hours ago, mpheels said:

(and PSA for the young gen-X and elder millennials out there - if you were just a little too old for HPV vaccination when it was first released, talk to your doctor. The guidelines changed a few years ago, and it’s now recommended up to age 45)

Only one of my three kids got the shots.  One was already openly sexually active, but the other one was denied because the doctor said that it wasn't 'available' for 20-somethings or older because the shot didn't work on older women, and they tended to lie about their sexual history anyway.  The shots also weren't covered by insurance or available to males.

I'm glad to know that the shots work on the males, and that the age range has gone up.  Does anyone know if it's recommended for people who haven't had any symptoms of genital warts?  I don't understand why a doctor would discourage someone from getting the vaccine.  If someone is willing to pay out of pocket for it, why not give it to them?

[Four is Enough]

12 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Do you think the vaccine is harmful?

Not the OP, but I opted out of Gardasil for my daughter. Didn't make this decision unilaterally; I spoke to many nurses that I respected, and we all agreed it seemed sketchy. This was just about the time the vaccine came out.                         

I felt it had been rushed to market, for one thing, without the safeguards that the current Covid vaccine are working under.

There was too much contradicting information. It was just for girls of a young age, probably because they were pretty sure to be virgins. Then the age stretched out. Then all of a sudden, boys could take it, too.

When the bad responses to it came along, I felt vindicated.

She's been offered the vaccine since, and has refused it.

[Kailash]

My 15 year old daughter hasn’t received the HPV vaccine yet. She’s on the autism spectrum and isn’t interested in being sexually active yet. Plus, she HATES getting shots. Since the vaccine takes awhile to work, she will need to get started with it before she’s sexually active for it to be most effective. She and I are very aware of the consequences of HPV, but she isn’t ready for it yet. I don’t let her decide which vaccines she wants to receive, but I’m working very hard to teach her bodily autonomy and to not be ashamed of anything regarding her body. She is an only child and I might have felt differently about waiting if she had neuro typical siblings who weren’t as socially immature as she is. I’m sure that the fact that her dad and I are each other’s only sexual partners ever (and were almost 19, and 22 when we had sex) influences this decision, even though I in no way expect or even hope that she will only have one partner. 
I do realize that I may come to regret this decision but so far I have refused the pressure from her pediatrician to force her to get this particular vaccine at this particular time, or earlier. 
tl:dr:  For my child, waiting to get the HPV vaccine is the right choice at this time. 
 

[IsmeWeatherwax]

Both my girls had the HPV vaccine at school, they are now ages 22 and 23, I did sign the form agreeing to it. Both my boys will also be getting it when its due.

At the time my 22year old was getting it, my good friends husband absolutely refused for his daughter. They were both of the attitude of oh well shes gay anyway so its not necessary.... shes been with her boyfriend for 2 years and they have a 1 year old son. Ah well each to their own.   

[purple_summer]

Guardasil came out when I was in high school. I also heard all the horror stories and my parents were absolutely not on board with it. I tried to get it as an adult but I didn’t have the chance to get all 3 shots before turning 26. I may still try to get the last two but I’m just not sure it’s worth jumping through hoops. 

[Belugaloo]

6 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Not the OP, but I opted out of Gardasil for my daughter. Didn't make this decision unilaterally; I spoke to many nurses that I respected, and we all agreed it seemed sketchy. This was just about the time the vaccine came out.                         

I felt it had been rushed to market, for one thing, without the safeguards that the current Covid vaccine are working under.

There was too much contradicting information. It was just for girls of a young age, probably because they were pretty sure to be virgins. Then the age stretched out. Then all of a sudden, boys could take it, too.

When the bad responses to it came along, I felt vindicated.

She's been offered the vaccine since, and has refused it.

My mom didn't allow me to get the HPV vaccine, I was fully vaccinated with the others so this was the first one she had refused. I ended up having a bad reaction to the meningitis vaccine during my middle school shots, and now I have a fun amount of vaccine anxiety. I never got the HPV one for that reason, but I have no idea what I'll do when I have kids. 

[Expectopatronus]

10 hours ago, mpheels said:

HPV is transmitted through skin to skin contact, and does not necessarily mean PIV sexual intercourse. Oral HPV can causes oral and throat cancer. Vaccination can prevent that. Sure, your kid might grow up and have just one sexual partner ever, and that person also has only ever had one sexual partner, but that seems unlikely. On average, people in the US have 7 sexual partners over the course of their life. The lowest state average is 2-3 in Utah. HPV vaccination is about building herd immunity, just like any other vaccine.

(and PSA for the young gen-X and elder millennials out there - if you were just a little too old for HPV vaccination when it was first released, talk to your doctor. The guidelines changed a few years ago, and it’s now recommended up to age 45)

I don’t know what decisions my daughter will make and part of my job as her mom will be to educate her regarding sexual health. If she chooses to become sexually actively outside of marriage, then yes, absolutely I will encourage her to use condoms, get the vaccine and have yearly STI screenings. Neither my sister nor I chose sex before marriage so we really didn’t/don’t need the vaccine. This was our choice and may not be the choice our kids make- and that will be okay. I’m learning that it is okay for me to make different parenting decisions than others and that it doesn’t mean that I’m wrong. 
I love the diversity of opinions that have been shared!! 

[candygirl200413]

Gradsil was the only vaccine I ever reacted too and was also in high school when it was created. When my doctor asked I said of course and even though I almost fainted after each vaccine I'm still glad I got it. It's been so many years that I would highly recommend people getting if they haven't. The reason the vaccine was created was because the 4 strains were likely to cause cervical cancer. Also HPV doesn't show up in men and maybe because I've had friends who have gotten HPV from partners but were vaccinated speaks to the importance of it but I really think if you haven't gotten it, you should.

 

Sincerely, your local epidemiologist.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I remember being denied when it came out because I was 20 and already sexually active with one partner who had 2 partners including me and his ex who had been a virgin. They basically implied it wouldn't do me any good since I could have been exposed already. ?  Could have saved me a lot of risk when I came into several years of sexual liberation later on.