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The Mother Dust

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8 hours ago, Giraffe said:

You and anyone else who has to do mandatory team bonding activities has my deepest sympathies. That kind of thing triggers my anxiety like few things do. I hate them with the passion Jrod hates us whoring heathens!

You and I are on the same page.....god I hate that stuff so much.  Why do they make us do it???  As long as coworkers are respectful to each other, we don't need to be friends.  I wish more bosses would get that through their heads.  Otherwise it's just an introvert torture session.

9 hours ago, viii said:

I work at a Catholic elementary school, and when I started my position, I signed a contract that said I understood my employment could be terminated if I chose to move in with a man before marriage or if I had a child out of wedlock. I do think if push came to shove, they'd have a hard time winning that at court, but I did sign the papers so... ?‍♀️

Re: the child out of wedlock bit.....I wonder if they make older women who join sign that too.....some weird reverse? ageism going on with that.

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4 minutes ago, The Mother Dust said:

You and I are on the same page.....god I hate that stuff so much.  Why do they make us do it???  As long as coworkers are respectful to each other, we don't need to be friends.  I wish more bosses would get that through their heads.  Otherwise it's just an introvert torture session.

YES!!!! YES YES YES!!!  I wish I could "like" this post so many more times!!! I wish people understood how agonizing it can be for some people. 

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On 12/16/2020 at 12:46 PM, viii said:

I work at a Catholic elementary school, and when I started my position, I signed a contract that said I understood my employment could be terminated if I chose to move in with a man before marriage or if I had a child out of wedlock. I do think if push came to shove, they'd have a hard time winning that at court, but I did sign the papers so... ?‍♀️

Hopefully they have men sign it too,if not then that might be a case of discrimination. 

There are christian colleges around here that have clauses such as no smoking or drinking, even at home! I looked at an adjunct job at one of them, saw that clause and said no way in hell. 

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Ran into this article from a Nashville physician addressing Mr. Ramsey's No Masks Allowed Holiday Soiree:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/2020/12/17/covid-19-doctor-open-letter-dave-ramsey-holiday-party/3925771001/

Never followed him but knew of him through people following his "baby steps" program.  Personally while I thought his financial advice was sound for the financially lost/clueless, getting them on the right path to getting out of debt and developing savings, I thought some of his other advice was completely absurd such as never using credit cards ever.  Good advice to those drowning in debt but to those who had a handle on their finances it made no sense.

I didn't care for the whole religious angle he pushes as I personally see it as irrelevant, but I can see how it works for some especially in the Bible Belt where he's based.    However after he brought a gun into a company meeting in a gift bag to demonstrate his attitude toward gossip in the workplace, I thought that was hugely disturbing.    Sign of a major league control freak a-hole as far as I was concerned and I stopped directing anyone to his financial resources after that.  Not that I did much of that anyway over the religious bent but if someone really wanted "Christian" or "Biblical" resources I would mention him.

That he did an anti mask Christmas party is not that surprising.  He was a complete jerk for refusing to allow people to work from home at the beginning of the pandemic.    

 

 

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The Wartburg Watch has weighed in:

Quote

 

Dave Ramsey has made a living helping people get out of debt. Some of his advice is good. For example, we made sure we had the cash in hand before we began our long-overdue kitchen renovation. However, we ignored his advice on buying a house and am glad that we did. Ramsey has made his fortune getting churches to showcase and present his program to the members. Good for him. How well do the churches know him?...

Often these folks believe they are the experts in every area. Ramsey, who is an expert on personal finances, appears to believe that he is also the reigning expert on COVID. He’s not and that’s dangerous. Ramsey appears to be one of those guys who believes *conspiracy theories* just like any other *$8/hr twerp.* More on that in a minute.

 

 

Edited by hoipolloi
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Also just want to weigh in on that "$8 / hour twerp" comment.   Just really says so much about him.

Years ago, Mr. No and I were traveling through Atlanta and saw billboards advertising his radio show.   One said "Act Your Wage".    I found that one in particular annoying thinking that there were bound to be people out there trying to follow his baby steps while not making enough to actually do it.   I bet there are a number of $8 an hour followers not appreciating this not just for the comment but also these people are likely essential workers who are risking Covid to do their jobs, which they need and have no choice and here's this guy completely disregarding public health measures.

I hope he loses followers big time. 

 

 

 

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On 12/26/2020 at 6:06 PM, nokidsmom said:

Years ago, Mr. No and I were traveling through Atlanta and saw billboards advertising his radio show.   One said "Act Your Wage".    I found that one in particular annoying thinking that there were bound to be people out there trying to follow his baby steps while not making enough to actually do it.

What do you think he meant by “Act Your Wage”? I mean, I get it’s a pun on act your age, but to what end? Just taken at face value, it sounds like it’s saying that your salary band defines you as a human being and you should just accept your financially-defined place in society meekly and without aspiration, which is really shitty advice and a terrible worldview. And pretty different from how Jesus looked at people.

Editing to say maybe I’ve figured it out: maybe it’s “don’t spend beyond your means”? Like, don’t make decisions you can’t actually afford. That’s okay. I still don’t like the use of the word “wage” in it because someone’s wage doesn’t define their whole financial situation. Someone can have a high salary and enormous debt, while someone else could have a modest wage but good savings. So, to me, using wage for pun purposes isn’t worth it to muddy the waters of actual meaning.

Edited by Petronella
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10 hours ago, Petronella said:

What do you think he meant by “Act Your Wage”? I mean, I get it’s a pun on act your age, but to what end? Just taken at face value, it sounds like it’s saying that your salary band defines you as a human being and you should just accept your financially-defined place in society meekly and without aspiration, which is really shitty advice and a terrible worldview. And pretty different from how Jesus looked at people.

Editing to say maybe I’ve figured it out: maybe it’s “don’t spend beyond your means”? Like, don’t make decisions you can’t actually afford. That’s okay. I still don’t like the use of the word “wage” in it because someone’s wage doesn’t define their whole financial situation. Someone can have a high salary and enormous debt, while someone else could have a modest wage but good savings. So, to me, using wage for pun purposes isn’t worth it to muddy the waters of actual meaning.

I've taken the class, he means to live within your means (what you said in the 2nd paragraph). He isn't saying to not try for advancements, etc. He often talks about sales people (and he includes himself in this category before he became filthy rich) that he thought he could outsell his spending. For people not in sales, he is saying if you make $10/hour don't live like you make $20/hour, etc. 

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15 hours ago, Petronella said:

Editing to say maybe I’ve figured it out: maybe it’s “don’t spend beyond your means”? Like, don’t make decisions you can’t actually afford. That’s okay. I still don’t like the use of the word “wage” in it because someone’s wage doesn’t define their whole financial situation. Someone can have a high salary and enormous debt, while someone else could have a modest wage but good savings. So, to me, using wage for pun purposes isn’t worth it to muddy the waters of actual meaning.

Even as I saw the billboard I realized it was a pun and the message was to not spend beyond one's means, I got that.  However I thought it was not the best pun to put forward as it could be misunderstood. 

To the bolded: when Mr. No and I bought our home, we were not making a lot of money.  However we had the savings for the down payment and the good credit history for the mortgage.   A couple of days before closing, I called the loan processor to make sure she had all her paperwork and she admitted to me that she was shocked to see that people with lower than average income for our area actually had savings and good credit  to qualify.  When she saw our income numbers at first, she didn't think we would qualify, like having a bad credit score, until she dove in deeper.   So yes, wage isn't always indicative of one's financial situation.

BTW, she told me that it was good money management on our part.  For the record it was not because of following Dave Ramsey.  His advice is really not new. 

 

Edited by nokidsmom
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5 hours ago, Columbia said:

This man is going to come crashing down, à la Falwell, Jr. It would surprise me if he’s still going this time next year. 

I’m not sure.  Falwell was predictable.  Ramsey is gross.  And a bigot.  But I don’t actually think there is a sex scandal there.  He may have a downfall, but sadly I don’t think it will be a delicious as Jr was.  I suspect it will be he has broken some laws/fraud/discrimination.  Not peeping your wife banging the pool boy.

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And if it’s merely financial, he’ll walk away from it smelling like a rose in his fundagelical bubble, bc those folks never met a charismatic lying, cheating fraudster they didn’t “restore to ministry” with love. Assuming said charismatic asshole has a penis.

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@hoipolloi  Thank you so much for the twitter post heads up.  I feel compelled to screenshot the rest of his comments here, just in case, which i'll put under the below spoiler.  For anyone else who is interested, at the time i'm writing this, there are some interesting comments happening in Tom's replies.  I'm happy to see that his post has gotten a fair amount of attention. 

Spoiler

541467827_ScreenShot2020-12-30at1_52_59AM.thumb.png.2a74020c0d773d7e33bbc67988c73637.png

 

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13 hours ago, treemom said:

I’m not sure.  Falwell was predictable.  Ramsey is gross.  And a bigot.  But I don’t actually think there is a sex scandal there.  He may have a downfall, but sadly I don’t think it will be a delicious as Jr was.

Maybe à la James MacDonald, then. He had no sex scandals, just widespread abuse of staff and church money, and I would say that downfall made a very big splash. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Some recent updates.

Is Dave Ramsey’s empire the ‘best place to work in America’? Say no and you’re out:

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Ramsey’s return to in-person work frustrated Heather Fulk. She has asthma, which puts her at higher risk if infected with COVID-19. After learning employees were being called back to headquarters, she made what she thought was an innocuous comment in a private Facebook post.

“Jon’s company wants to bring all 900 employees back asap when a majority can do their work from home,” she wrote on April 20. “I do *not* understand how people don’t see we are setting ourselves up for a huge second wave. Ugh, people make me so angry.”

Before long, Jon got a call from his supervisor who said a co-worker had reported Heather’s comment. They had a screenshot of the post, sent by the co-worker’s spouse.

A few weeks later, Jon was fired. In his exit interview, Armando Lopez, head of human resources at Ramsey, confirmed that the cause was his wife’s social media comment, according to a recording of the meeting.

 

Dave Ramsey's response to the reporter:

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Bob,

Thanks for reaching out. We want to confirm for you that you are right, we are horrible evil people. We exist to simply bring harm to our team, take advantage of our customers, and spread COVID....If you are on this email we would ask a favor for Ramsey…would you help us? Bob’s phone number and email are here, and we would ask that you contact him TODAY and tell him all the evil horrible stories you know about us. Also, he lives in Spring Hill so if you see him out and about, be sure to congratulate him on his virtue....

 

Fucking asshat doesn't even begin to cover it.

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thisasshole.jpg.46e887b8a6432a57ee6ff824fc91f1d0.jpg

Fortunately, there are plenty of companies who had most employees working from home before being told to do so by those states that took this pandemic seriously. That's because they actually give a shit about their employees and understand that sick or dead people can't work.

Edited by ADoyle90815
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Someone asked why he still has employees. I’m local and get to pass by the Covid Office frequently. That massive Christmas party could potentially effect the safety of my family. I get to see his massive house on the hill, built so the whole town can see it. You can’t live here and not know at least one former employee. 
 

People consider working there a dream because they start out with FPU and work the baby steps and it “changes their life.” Getting hired feels like they are special and chosen. I don’t know if it’s true today, but when I knew people there,  everyone was underpaid and were working there because they believed in the “mission.” There used to be fairly high turnover.
 

Very few people leave without signing an NDA, even if leaving on good terms. If they make it out without the NDA, they are harassed in an effort to keep control over them. I’ve heard first hand accounts of people’s social media being spied on years after they left. Listen to that audio in the article. Harassing a hair dresser to get information about an employee is pretty extreme. 
 

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32 minutes ago, Howl said:

 

Wow wow wow.  Thank you so much for sharing the above @Howl I was unaware of this..... wow!  Edit - after some quick digging I found out Melissa did divorce Chris Hogan in 2019.....I'm relieved to read that.  You all need to read her statement about the Religion News Service article https://melissajhogan.com/my-statement-regarding-ramsey-solutions/ I'm screenshotting a couple of the more shocking paragraphs below, but go read the full thing for sure.   
 

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1703629874_ScreenShot2021-01-17at12_53_13PM.thumb.png.11684aacc01fc794cd0f73bcca66aeca.png

Its one thing if Ramsey Solutions had provided access to a marriage counselor and left it there, but to require the counselor report to Ramsey leadership????   Dosen't patient confidentiality apply??  

Edit again after further rumination and I am angry but not surprised to have only read about Melissa being chastised and NOTHING ABOUT HER HUSBAND BEING REPRIMANDED FOR MULTIPLE AFFAIRS.  
 

Edited by The Mother Dust
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Wow, at this point is there a single mega- church pastor/ministry that isn't about fame and cult of personality? I am starting to think no, not one. (I am not talking about ordinary, hard working ministers, just the celebrity ones.)

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37 minutes ago, The Mother Dust said:

Its one thing if Ramsey Solutions had provided access to a marriage counselor and left it there, but to require the counselor report to Ramsey leadership????   Dosen't patient confidentiality apply??  

ITA. Trying to understand how that was not a gross violation of at least federal law (HIPAA) if not TN state law.

Here's a Twitter thread from the reporter that's quite good:

 

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1 hour ago, The Mother Dust said:

Its one thing if Ramsey Solutions had provided access to a marriage counselor and left it there, but to require the counselor report to Ramsey leadership????   Dosen't patient confidentiality apply??  

From an outsider's perspective, many aspects of Christian counseling are a huge can of worms nest of vipers.  I'm not sure what guidelines Ramsey Solutions uses for Christian counseling but it can't be professional.  Anyone involved in the Ramsey scheme would certainly lose their state license to practice. 

Side trip/thread drift, because this is my only exposure to how Christian counseling works, using Doug Wilson (poster child for a high control individual) as an example. 

There is an  Association of Certified Biblical Counselors and these are the guildelines used by  Doug Wilson (Christ Church, Moscow, ID) and his Center for Biblical Counseling. 

Note: This service for Christ Church congregants does not include absolute confidentiality and assumes the Bible and theology as the solution to all problems and has these helpful notes: 

  • Biblical counselors must use the Scriptures in counseling as the authoritative and sufficient source for counseling content.
  • Biblical counselors must reject any secular counseling intervention that is at odds with Scripture

and many, many MANY paragraphs later

  • Biblical counselors must also make clear to their counselees that a commitment to biblical authority requires the disclosure of certain kinds of information to certain parties. A biblical commitment to protect counselees from harm as well as commitments to the authority of the home, church, and or state may require disclosure of information that counselees would otherwise prefer to remain private.

For anyone who has followed Doug Wilson and his handling of pedophiles in his congregation will find the sheer hypocrisy about commitments to the authority of the state breathtaking. 

Also:  I'm convinced that Doug Wilson set up a Biblical counseling service to leverage personal secrets to control his little empire, but that's just me. 

It sounds like this is what Ramsey Solutions is doing as well.  It's beyond draconian, controlling and abusive.  

Here's one take on why Biblical counseling does not adhere to strict confidentiality from the Biblical Counseling Coalition, randomly found on the internet: 

Quote

Strict confidentiality is not possible for Christians who practice counseling in the context of a local church. If a person is not willing to repentant of his sin, the counselor must eventually expose this sinner to the church. If we are going to follow the ethics of the Bible, it is not an option for us to conceal an unrepentant sinners’ sin. Granted, many of us (as counselors) will persevere for a long-time—exhorting, persuading, pleading with the sinner to turn.  But if he or she does not, we’re left with one two options—bring a second witness (v. 16); and then bring it to the church (v. 17).

As you can see, there are limits to our confidentiality in a church setting. Pastoral counseling requires us to always fit the sinner within the context of a local church. We’re not lone-rangers in private practice; but shepherds watching over a flock of God’s sheep (1 Peter 5:1-13).

 

Edited by Howl
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18 minutes ago, Howl said:

From an outsider's perspective, many aspects of Christian counseling are a huge can of worms nest of vipers.  I'm not sure what guidelines Ramsey Solutions uses for Christian counseling but it can't be professional.  Anyone involved in the Ramsey scheme would certainly lose their state license to practice. 

Side trip/thread drift, because this is my only exposure to how Christian counseling works, using Doug Wilson (poster child for a high control individual) as an example. 

There is an  Association of Certified Biblical Counselors and these are the guildelines used by  Doug Wilson (Christ Church, Moscow, ID) and his Center for Biblical Counseling. 

Note: This service for Christ Church congregants does not include absolute confidentiality and assumes the Bible and theology as the solution to all problems and has these helpful notes: 

  • Biblical counselors must use the Scriptures in counseling as the authoritative and sufficient source for counseling content.
  • Biblical counselors must reject any secular counseling intervention that is at odds with Scripture

and many, many MANY paragraphs later

  • Biblical counselors must also make clear to their counselees that a commitment to biblical authority requires the disclosure of certain kinds of information to certain parties. A biblical commitment to protect counselees from harm as well as commitments to the authority of the home, church, and or state may require disclosure of information that counselees would otherwise prefer to remain private.

For anyone who has followed Doug Wilson and his handling of pedophiles in his congregation will find the sheer hypocrisy about commitments to the authority of the state breathtaking. 

Also:  I'm convinced that Doug Wilson set up a Biblical counseling service to leverage personal secrets to control his little empire, but that's just me. 

It sounds like this is what Ramsey Solutions is doing as well.  It's beyond draconian, controlling and abusive.  

Here's one take on why Biblical counseling does not adhere to strict confidentiality from the Biblical Counseling Coalition, randomly found on the internet: 

 

Thank you for this valuable info @Howl

Also, see the below comments from the Religion News Service article.  As a long time avid glassdoor user, I had thought for a while there was something fishy going on with Ramsey's glassdoor reviews.  I had been watching their page soon after Covid hit, as I was curious to see if any employees would vent their frustrations.  And sure enough, they did, but oddly, their star rating never moved much.  Which makes sense now if the below comments are true.....Ramsey Solutions leadership had been making employees churn out reviews that had to be first vetted by said leadership, to counter the negative ones.  However I did just look now, and their rating has gone down again https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Ramsey-Solutions-Reviews-E355423.htm. "The truth will out" and all that.
2119495517_ScreenShot2021-01-17at1_48_51PM.thumb.png.48fb695c2c28a72ca971804dd7919e6e.png

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Speaking of glassdoor, here is a screenshot of a paragraph from a comment under Ramsey Solutions glasdoor reviews from September 2020.  So much for those vaunted "best place to work" accolades...... 

311949583_ScreenShot2021-01-17at2_30_39PM.thumb.png.e05a66a80ec686ba5135a920b62c0233.png

Edited by The Mother Dust
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  • Coconut Flan changed the title to Dave Ramsey

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