Maxwell 43: Divesting from the First Church of Stevehovah Reversalist

[Bluebirdbluebell]

32 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

Today most kid events ban really scary costumes. When I was a kid in the 60s costumes weren't as sophisticated. If you bought one you got a jumpsuit and a mask. Lots of people were simple things like Ghosts of football/baseball players, many, many girls were witches. My friend's brother went as an old lady in 5th grade! That kind of thing. I can't imagine Steve liking even the 60s level of creativity, let alone today's.

Well there's another problem for fundies. Not just Scary costumes; Gender-bender costumes! Boys, especially older boys, like to dress up as women sometimes. And maybe some girls don a suit and beard. 

Today if a boy wants he can be Wonder Woman, a girl can be James Bond. (I was having trouble coming up a male idea that a woman would dress as.) 

I went through a period of my life where Halloween wasn't very fun. I got stressed chosing a costume and I usually had no where to go. Part of this is depression. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

On 10/27/2020 at 10:56 PM, JordynDarby5 said:

Does anyone have a guess on how much Sarah may of made off her books? 

It depends on the deal with Amazon that you pick. I know people who have published through Amazon and it can be up to a third of earnings of the price. It also depends on editing packages that are offered as well. Since Sarah depends on her sisters, in-law, and nieces and nephews for this, so, I doubt she takes advantage. She probably is able to make a profit off of the books as she does seem to have a strong following in the fundie community. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

On 10/28/2020 at 1:52 PM, crawfishgirl said:

Sarah linked some interesting family articles about Halloween.

I don't remember my kids being scared of other costumes when they were younger, maybe because they recognized other kids wearing them.  They were more interested in the candy and the activity around them.  

There must have been some serious brainwashing going on in that house, to be scared of other kids in costumes.  I can see where young children might be intimidated, but this seems extreme for age six.

My kids always loved Halloween when they were that age.  I know that some churches host carnivals during Halloween to avoid the 'scary' aspects of the holiday, and allow the kids to dress up in non-scary costumes, such as cowboys, ballet dancers, etc.  That sounds like a nice alternative for people who don't observe Halloween.  

As for me, I'm always ready to do the time warp again... (Rocky Horror reference)

 

I believe the same. In one of the articles by Teri she mentions she was heavily questioning Halloween as a holiday. So, by the time she was taking the kids trick or treating they were probably scared of walking around at night with other people dressed up in scary costumes. To add insult to injury, they had to deal with two parents who were going deeper into the fundie cult with Steve isolating them more day by day. I have a feeling that Steve and Teri really felt it was wrong to celebrate Halloween when the oldest three were at trick or treating age and felt guilty allowing them do so as it exposed them. On top of that they tried other solutions to avoid the holiday. They were delighted when Anna was born as it gave them a reason to celebrate on Halloween with a birthday party.

On 10/28/2020 at 2:00 PM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I'm not sure they've updated the bios for the girls in a long time though. 

It looks like they update the bios when a marriage or child is born with a photo only for the married couple. So, I would say a couple times a year. Anna's job is working IT with her brothers and Mary seems to be doing something with graphic design for them. Sarah still says she does bookkeeping, so I have a feeling she is still doing it. Plus, it depends on how much she makes on the books for an income. For making a profit it depends on the deal you choose with Amazon and how much you get off the book. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well there's another problem for fundies. Not just Scary costumes; Gender-bender costumes! Boys, especially older boys, like to dress up as women sometimes. And maybe some girls don a suit and beard. 

Today if a boy wants he can be Wonder Woman, a girl can be James Bond. (I was having trouble coming up a male idea that a woman would dress as.) 

I went through a period of my life where Halloween wasn't very fun. I got stressed chosing a costume and I usually had no where to go. Part of this is depression. 

When one of my nephews was maybe 12, he dressed up as Hilary Clinton. It was epic!

[kpmom]

2 hours ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

It depends on the deal with Amazon that you pick. I know people who have published through Amazon and it can be up to a third of earnings of the price. It also depends on editing packages that are offered as well. Since Sarah depends on her sisters, in-law, and nieces and nephews for this, so, I doubt she takes advantage. She probably is able to make a profit off of the books as she does seem to have a strong following in the fundie community. 

And don't forget they also sold her earlier books when they were still doing their dog and pony shows around the country.

A few FJers who attended their shows said people were buying their books (Sarah's, Teri's and Steve's) by the armful.

Apparently they're also sold in Christian bookstores, and of course through the Titus2 web site.

I have a hunch, no proof just a hunch, that Sarah has made some pretty good money off these books. 

[Lady Grass Lake]

Good costume for all - take a package of the individual boxes of cereal, punch a plastic knife in each box,  paint a little red paint or nail polish on the knife where it enters the box, then affix the boxes to a shirt or outer jacket, I did it to an old sweatshirt, by pinning  a back corner of the boxes to the shirt with diaper pins, or you could hot glue them on(not while the shirt is on the person, advises someone who experienced this).   There you have it one "Cereal Killer"   Coming from Michigan where you can have any weather up to and including snow for Halloween, we specialize in cold weather costumes.   Saw a kid dressed in a red footed sleeper, Mom took some of the big sheets of plastic foam from a craft store the same color, make a tube that would fit around the body of the wearer, from under arms to just below the hips and two cloth strips that served a shoulder straps.  Take a black sharpie and color the foam to look like the crayon wrapper of a Crayola crayon.  You could also craft a simple dunce cap from the foam or get a knitted beanie in the same color.   

 

[crawfishgirl]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

Congrats to your daughter! Austin and College Station are wildly different environments,  but both universities are excellent. College Station/Texas A & M is definitely more conservative.  Austin is certainly the more costly place to live, by a huge margin. 

Thanks @Howl.  She is leaning towards UT, because she thinks that Austin would be more fun to live in and she is pretty liberal.  We are looking at the cost of housing for both places, parking permits, etc., and College Station is less expensive.  Since I went to school in a different state, I don't have a strong opinion towards either school - both have pros and cons.  I'm just grateful that we have options.

 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well there's another problem for fundies. Not just Scary costumes; Gender-bender costumes! Boys, especially older boys, like to dress up as women sometimes. And maybe some girls don a suit and beard. 

Today if a boy wants he can be Wonder Woman, a girl can be James Bond. (I was having trouble coming up a male idea that a woman would dress as.) 

I went through a period of my life where Halloween wasn't very fun. I got stressed chosing a costume and I usually had no where to go. Part of this is depression. 

I'm a "girl" who had her own football uniform, bought with her own money at Sears in 1970. My Mom, bless her heart, let me. No, I did not want to be a boy. I just wanted to play football WITH the boys and they all had uniforms. I did have to suffer thru playing backyard ice hockey in white figure skates, but the boy's hockey skates were too wide! LOL Deal with that Steve-o!

[Cults-r-us]

6 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well there's another problem for fundies. Not just Scary costumes; Gender-bender costumes! Boys, especially older boys, like to dress up as women sometimes. And maybe some girls don a suit and beard. 

Today if a boy wants he can be Wonder Woman, a girl can be James Bond. (I was having trouble coming up a male idea that a woman would dress as.) 

I went through a period of my life where Halloween wasn't very fun. I got stressed chosing a costume and I usually had no where to go. Part of this is depression. 

Part of this is the fact of the matter: Halloween isn't fun (for me) without little kids.

[FloraKitty35]

A Jill Rod inspired halloween look would be scary.  

[HoneyBunny]

12 hours ago, fundiefan said:

I always had homemade costumes and was jealous of the kids with store-bought costumes. I remember one year I was a witch and my aunt made my witch hat. I don't remember what she made it of but I hated it because it didn't stand up straight like the hat my friend got with her store bought costume. If I remember correctly, I was a whiney little b*tch about it. 

I see pictures of that Halloween now - and most other Halloweens and half my child life - and holy hell, my aunt did some great sewing while I was growing up. My ungrateful child attitude has hopefully been made up for with my adult awe. 

Kids always want what they can't have, I guess. 

So true. Except for the two years when I wore a mini nurse’s uniform (not a Halloween costume, per se) that my grandparents gave me when I had my tonsils out at 4 years old, all my costumes were homemade. My uncle lived in New Orleans and participated in the Marci Gras parades, so he’d send me a bag of those cheap beaded necklaces. I wore one of my Mom’s old skirts, a peasant top, load up with as many necklaces as my neck could accommodate and went as a gypsy. Every. Damn. Year.  Now that I think about it, not the most politically correct thing to do, but I was young and it was my only option, so...reality. 

[ophelia]

6 hours ago, FloraKitty35 said:

A Jill Rod inspired halloween look would be scary.  

That's what nightmares are made of.

[sparkles]

22 hours ago, smittykins said:

I was always envious of kids who had homemade costumes. Except for two years when I went as a “bedsheet ghost,” I always wore those cheap discount-department-store costumes with the thin plastic mask that you could barely see or breathe through, got wet inside from condensation, and the elastic always broke.

I made costumes for my daughter, niece and nephew and they were freaking awesome, if I do say so myself. ? I looked forward to it every year and usually got started about two months in advance because the costumes got more and more elaborate (and expensive—eek!) as the years went on. My faves are the 50s style robot costume I made for my nephew that was all silver lame, only I couldn’t find a quilted version for the body so I ended up machine quilting it myself, and the American Girls costume I made for my daughter. Who was the colonial one, Felicity? I recreated her blue gown with the pink ribbon trim. I also made her an I Dream of Jeannie costume and sat up until the buttcrack of dawn on Halloween morning sewing on more pearls and paillettes because you can never be too spangly, you know? My daughter is 30 now and she still talks about those costumes. I’m pretty sure still have some of them squirreled away somewhere. 

Sadly, like so many things, Halloween is nothing like it was when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s. My mom spent the week before making cupcakes and our house was one of the most popular stops. We used to go out with our Flexible Flyer red wagon and would have to make at least one trip home to offload all the goodies. Then all of the scares started—RAZOR BLADES IN APPLES, OH NO!—and that was the beginning of the end. If we get 10 kids now were we live, that’s a lot.

I get why people don’t celebrate Halloween for religious reasons and I Can respect it to a degree. My daughter went to a preschool at a local reform synagogue (we’re atheists but my family is culturally Jewish so I thought it would be okay for the kid to have at least SOME knowledge) and they celebrated Purim, which is basically Jewish Halloween, instead. The kids never complained about not wearing their costumes to school on Halloween because the school didn’t make a big deal out of it, unlike Steve and Teri, who probably made Halloween sound like some kind of Stephen King horror story to their kids and painted anyone who celebrated as someone EVIL.

And speaking of S&T, it don’t think they’re anti-fun altogether, but as they’ve said many times, fun has to be “edifying”. TBH, I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing to make something that might be a mundane or unpleasant chore into something enjoyable—and it is a good way to spend time together—but their kind of fun has to have a god-honoring purpose. Girls get dolls and toy cleaning supplies to prepare them to be wives and mothers. Boys get tools to prepare them to be breadwinners. They’ve definitely lightened up of late—no way they would have allowed something like a water balloon fight when their own kids were growing up—but they’ve still managed to suck all of the fun out of fun. “Let’s spontaneously have some fun today! I’ll see if I can fit it in on the schedule!”

Edited October 30, 2020 by sparkles

[Jana814]

My mother was a pre-school teacher at our temple. The kids were not allowed to wear customs to school on Halloween. Their was never really a problem, even when some of the kids had siblings who could wear customs to school. I have no idea if my parents will get a ton of kids at their door tomorrow, they rarely get any kids but mother is prepared in case she’s gets anyone. 

[anachronistic]

Our costumes were a mix of whatever-is-around, homemade parts, and store bought parts. They always had to fit over a turtleneck and sweat pants or thick tights. I was a very pale, very white person and one year I wore my sisters old ballet costume and went as a china doll - I think that was my favorite. As I got older I tended to do variations on ‘dead person’ - dead Puritan is one I remember. I always wanted a really dignified costume, not a cute or funny one, because I got enough bullying elsewhere.

For some reason, adults in costume make me profoundly uncomfortable- I dislike mascots, theme park characters, etc. I think it’s because I have enough trouble predicting regular human behavior, and human behavior in a costume makes me scared that I won’t react right. I try not to let it show but secretly shudder through a lot of events. For me, Halloween is about cute kids and candy. My moms neighborhood is a great trick or treating one. But it’ll be cold and damp this year - it’s currently snowing - and few kids are going to be allowed out anyway. I’m going to stay in and make pumpkin pudding.

I do wonder if Terri’s fear of the unknown and lack of energy in general meant that she just didn’t want to do Halloween but because she can’t admit any weaknesses so had to come up with a Christian reason not to. It’s okay to not want to do things. Halloween, as this year definitely shows us, is optional. Really.

[Rosie]

4 hours ago, ophelia said:

That's what nightmares are made of.

How would we distinguish it from her everyday look?

Edited October 30, 2020 by Rosie
clarity

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, sparkles said:

they celebrated Purim, which is basically Jewish Halloween, instead.

Gentile here, lover of so much of Judaism, and have to share a somewhat cautionary tale about that. NOT that I’m trying to tell any Jewish person something they already know!! 
 

Some years ago, to my great delight, I discovered that a synagogue here offered a Judaism 101 class for free. The day before, the  Mayim Bialik blog covered her family’s Purim celebration and she used the word “Halloween” in context but admittedly she didn’t equate the two. 
 

Well .... after class, an overly friendly synagogue member who was in the class offered to lead myself and another first-timer - a very young woman - on a building tour. It turns out the overly helpful member inserts herself into a lot of what the rabbis do in the way of education.

As we wound up the tour, she mentioned Purim coming up, and I said, “Kind of like Halloween—“ and oo, oo, did I get an earful!!!

She objected, in order, to the following: It is not being about scary nor the dead; the costumes honor Queen Esther; and it is not about begging (for candy) but giving. I humbly said, “I apologize, I did not know, thank you for the correction.”

It gets a chapter 2:
 

After I thanked her for the correction she began talking about why a chapel is named for a past local retail giant, explaining to the young woman (who didn’t recognize the name) about how Jewish people went into retail and,

thinking of the many department stores of old that had very Jewish names, and where I had found many a great item, I chuckled very lightly and murmured “Yeah!”

— and I got a second dose of education:  the guide whirled on me and said sharply, “Don't laugh!” and described how anti-Semitism blocked Jewish people’s ability to buy farm land, etc., more or less leaving commerce and the professions as their only avenues of making a living. 
 

I knew that already and she must have blown an inner gasket when I simply said, “I know.”  
 

That lady is a hoot. We became friends and she, a psychoanalyst, soon after suggested to me during a coffee date that I might benefit from psychological care, which BTW she provides... I patted her hand - she had laid it upon my other hand - and said, “Karen, I perceive that you are truly gifted at counseling and accomplished!  But I see us as being friends, not doctor and client.”

Still makes me smile big every time I think of it.  An analyst who’s likely to yawp at me? As I said, we are buds to this day, but boy, I NEVER *remotely* liken Purim to Halloween!!!! ?

[sparkles]

4 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Gentile here, lover of so much of Judaism, and have to share a somewhat cautionary tale about that. NOT that I’m trying to tell any Jewish person something they already know!! 
 

Some years ago, to my great delight, I discovered that a synagogue here offered a Judaism 101 class for free. The day before, the  Mayim Bialik blog covered her family’s Purim celebration and she used the word “Halloween” in context but admittedly she didn’t equate the two. 
 

Well .... after class, an overly friendly synagogue member who was in the class offered to lead myself and another first-timer - a very young woman - on a building tour. It turns out the overly helpful member inserts herself into a lot of what the rabbis do in the way of education.

As we wound up the tour, she mentioned Purim coming up, and I said, “Kind of like Halloween—“ and oo, oo, did I get an earful!!!

She objected, in order, to the following: It is not being about scary nor the dead; the costumes honor Queen Esther; and it is not about begging (for candy) but giving. I humbly said, “I apologize, I did not know, thank you for the correction.”

It gets a chapter 2:
 

After I thanked her for the correction she began talking about why a chapel is named for a past local retail giant, explaining to the young woman (who didn’t recognize the name) about how Jewish people went into retail and,

thinking of the many department stores of old that had very Jewish names, and where I had found many a great item, I chuckled very lightly and murmured “Yeah!”

— and I got a second dose of education:  the guide whirled on me and said sharply, “Don't laugh!” and described how anti-Semitism blocked Jewish people’s ability to buy farm land, etc., more or less leaving commerce and the professions as their only avenues of making a living. 
 

I knew that already and she must have blown an inner gasket when I simply said, “I know.”  
 

That lady is a hoot. We became friends and she, a psychoanalyst, soon after suggested to me during a coffee date that I might benefit from psychological care, which BTW she provides... I patted her hand - she had laid it upon my other hand - and said, “Karen, I perceive that you are truly gifted at counseling and accomplished!  But I see us as being friends, not doctor and client.”

Still makes me smile big every time I think of it.  An analyst who’s likely to yawp at me? As I said, we are buds to this day, but boy, I NEVER *remotely* liken Purim to Halloween!!!! ?

? Oh yeah, not much of my very limited Jewish education stuck with me (I walked out of Hebrew school class when I was 12 and never went back) but I do know deep down that there's more to it than just dressing up. But to be fair, I have quite a few synagogues as freelance design clients (you get one and boy, do they network!) and even they emphasize the more secular Halloween-ish aspects of Purim. Costumes, candy, games, the whole um…Megillah (groan…so, so sorry ?)

[Jana814]

Very little of my Hebrew school education stuck with me also.  Although I still think I could say parts of my Torah portion from my Bat Mitzvah 27 years ago. I hated going to Hebrew school it was right after school & after 7 hours of school the last thing I want to do was more school. 

Also do to my temple going through a renovation for 2 years of Hebrew school we didn’t even have it in our temple, we had it at a middle school a few doors down from the temple. 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Jana814

[church_of_dog]

I don't remember any of my childhood halloween costumes -- I think they were sometimes homemade and occasionally bought.

But my favorite costume was my first year at college, in the dorms.  I wore pink slippers, pink pants, pink shirt, a pink bathrobe belt for a tail, and presumably some pink cat ears.

My friend wore a trenchcoat and whatever that kind of Clousseau hat is called, and we put a walkman (remember those?  This was 1980) in his coat pocket playing the pink panther theme.  Then we slunk around the dorm halls, having lots of fun...

Edited October 30, 2020 by church_of_dog

[Jana814]

In 6th grade I was a 50’s girl. With a poodle skirt. It was the last thing my grandmother who was a talented seamstress ever made for me. 

[freejugar]

Speaking of scary costumes, Anna's clown costume scared me more than  any store bought costume I've seen

[fundiefan]

10 minutes ago, freejugar said:

Speaking of scary costumes, Anna's clown costume scared me more than  any store bought costume I've seen

Yes! That whole scenario was hypocritical - and downright awful!

They don't let their children, even as adults, be exposed to anything, anywhere or anyone. They're so scared they'll be swayed. It explains exactly why they are so fearful someone will tell their kids something they don't want them to hear - - - because it is exactly how they operate and they're too narrow minded to understand that the whole world does not do as they do, and doesn't want to for that matter!

Entice a child with a (creepy ass) clown and balloons and face painting, then ask them if they know where they're going when they die and give them a tract meant to scare them. If I were a parent and they tried that sh*t with my child, they would not get off with a scowl. 

Just as it's not "the world's" job to teach your sheltered children anything, it is not your freaking job to teach mine (or anyone else's since I, personally, don't have any). 

To be honest, this is among the things that make me seriously despise the Maxwells. Their wacked beliefs and snark and everything else, of course, but I have an actual feeling directly towards them for this crap. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

5 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Yes! That whole scenario was hypocritical - and downright awful!

They don't let their children, even as adults, be exposed to anything, anywhere or anyone. They're so scared they'll be swayed. It explains exactly why they are so fearful someone will tell their kids something they don't want them to hear - - - because it is exactly how they operate and they're too narrow minded to understand that the whole world does not do as they do, and doesn't want to for that matter!

Entice a child with a (creepy ass) clown and balloons and face painting, then ask them if they know where they're going when they die and give them a tract meant to scare them. If I were a parent and they tried that sh*t with my child, they would not get off with a scowl. 

Just as it's not "the world's" job to teach your sheltered children anything, it is not your freaking job to teach mine (or anyone else's since I, personally, don't have any). 

To be honest, this is among the things that make me seriously despise the Maxwells. Their wacked beliefs and snark and everything else, of course, but I have an actual feeling directly towards them for this crap. 

See I don't actually dislike Anna's clown costume as a personal expression. If she wants to wear that outfit, that's her business.

But the intention, as you beautifully explained, is awful and hypocritical. Both Anna and Mary are luring children to them, trying to indoctrinate them, and Steve would howling with anger if this was someone doing this to his children, even as adults. 

[Jana814]

5 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

 Both Anna and Mary are luring children to them, trying to indoctrinate them, and Steve would howling with anger if this was someone doing this to his children, even as adults. 

I think you summed this up very well & I completely agree with you.