Maxwell 43: Divesting from the First Church of Stevehovah Reversalist

[Bethy]

8 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@Bethy, my son-in-law wonders how or if the explain to their oldest daughter, adopted from China, that she was abandoned at birth.  Her sister, also adopted from China, was taken to the orphanage at the age of three months.  I don't know that will be easy to explain to her either.  Did her birth parents just want a better life for her when they realized she was deaf or did they not want the burden of raising a deaf child?  

I'm no expert - just an interested and observant bystander. I'd definitely recommend he reach out to other parents in similar situations to see how they've approached it with their adopted kids. Adoptions are all so different - whether foreign or domestic, or whether they arise from a situation where the mom has chosen to place the child for adoption vs. a child who was taken into the foster care system for the sake of his/her own wellbeing when parents weren't able or willing to parent well. Explaining adoption to a child whose mom was a young teen who knew she couldn't be the mom her baby needed and willingly placed him/her for adoption is a WHOLE different ball game from helping a child understand why he/she was taken into foster care and the birth parents' rights were terminated leading to adoption. (While the adoptive parents may know the child would have had an abusive childhood or worse with their birth parents, the child may feel like he/she was unjustly "stolen" from their "real" parents.) So getting input from parents who have walked that road with their own adopted children is probably the strongest thing an adoptive parent can do to help with the transition.

And that's where I feel like the Maxwells would fail as adoptive parents. I could see them bringing a child into their home, saying, "You're a Maxwell now and that's that" with no regard for the child's wishes to contact the birth parents, have a relationship with bio siblings, learn about medical history, etc. Plus that DIY pride that's probably going to give them a full-blown bedbug infestation would keep them from being part of an adoption support group or mentoring with another adoptive couple.

I don't honestly know the answer to this - is it possible at all, in any situation, to adopt without a full psych eval, physical exam, home study, etc.? Like, if there was a teen mom in their church who approached them and said "I'm pregnant, will you adopt my baby" could they just go to a judge and get it finalized without all the red tape? Obviously if they were adopting internationally or through an agency or foster care those things would have to happen, but what about a private adoption? Because I think a thorough evaluation would bring to the surface the issues that would make them poor adoptive parents, but only if they actually had to do it.

[Jana814]

2 minutes ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

I heard about an adoptive mom who had to explain to her daughter why her birth mom left her at a train station when she was an infant. (I can't remember which country this was, but the train station was a common place for women to abandon babies.) The adoptive mom ended up saying that the birth mom chose the train station because it was a safe, public place where the workers were known to take care of babies until the police/social services arrived.

That’s a good way to say it. Was the country Russia, I heard leaving babies at train stations happen their. 

[fundiewatch]

I made the baked oatmeal, admittedly added more chocolate chips than recommended by Sarah. It’s amaaaaazing. 

[PennySycamore]

@Bethy,  my daughter and her husband started the adoption process about the same time that their daughter was born or maybe even around the time she was conceived.  They had to have a ton of references,  visits with the social workers (not just of themselves, but the home environment) and so on.  They found out that the adoption was approved and that Zoey would be their daughter, but it took more than 6 months before they went to China to pick he up.  Zoey was lucky enough to have nanny care through the Half the Sky Foundation and so she avoided the worst of institutional care,  I think Zoey was over two when she joined the family.  Their other daughter had much the same scenario around her adoption.  Both girls have special needs:  Zoey has albinism and is legally blind while Maizy is profoundly deaf.  They're doing well though.  

My daughter and son-in-law are part of a FB group of parents that have adopted children with albinism from China. People with albinism are discriminated against pretty much everywhere, but it's worse in some places than others.  The Chinese seem to be less accepting than some other places, but at least the Chinese don't outright kill people with albinism as sometimes happens in parts of Africa.  

[FloraDoraDolly]

7 hours ago, Jana814 said:

That’s a good way to say it. Was the country Russia, I heard leaving babies at train stations happen their. 

It was somewhere in Eastern Europe, but I can't remember which country.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

So Very Good News about the Bed Bugs. 

They did search the entire house, tape everything off, and it's okay. They have no idea where the bed bugs came from. 

And they hired a professional-  a beagle trained to sniff for bed bugs. 

[FiveAcres]

I'm thinking of some adoption stories that I have known. 

One was a young man, a friend of a relative, decades ago before open adoption, who knew he was adopted from an early age. I think he had a good family life and he graduated with honors from a nationally highly ranked university. He decided to find his birth parents and did so. He was crushed to find that his birth parents had been married (to each other) college students who had surrendered him for adoption so they could continue to pursue their education. 

Another was a young woman who, I think, was also a closed adoption. However, she started developing a mood disorder in late adolescence and I suppose her mother was able to track down medical information about her birth parents. One was bipolar and the other was an addict. I suppose it is better to know than not to know but ☹️!

Another is a woman who didn't start trying to trace her birth parents until her fifties. (There are lot of resources now using DNA banks.) She thinks she found her parents, both of whom are now dead. She tried to make contact with what would have been first cousins and an aunt or uncle, and no one ever replied.

Another was a woman who was from a devout family who surrendered her first son for adoption because she wasn't married. (I don't think she told anyone in the family she went on to have that they had an older half-sibling who had been adopted.) The first son tracked her down and is a raging alcoholic. She became quite enmeshed with her returned son and all of his problems. 

Another woman was quite the party animal, became pregnant, and gave up her child for adoption. She had a second pregnancy, cleaned up her act, and raised her son to adulthood. This was something widely known through the family, and everyone just assumed that she had told her second child about it. She had not, and he learned in his twenties as part of casual conversation talking to a family member. He was quite distressed to learn that he had a half-sibling he had not known about . 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by FiveAcres
grammar

[Jana814]

I’ve always felt when it comes to a kid being adopted it’s best to be honest. I went to school with someone who was adopted she has always known. In 8th grade she brought in a photo or herself as an infant for a class she was in.  The picture she brought in was the first one her parents took of her when they brought her home after the adoption she was 3 months old. 

[PennySycamore]

@FiveAcres, a year or so ago, there was a story in People about these two couples in the St Louis, Missouri area who'd both adopted girls from different parts of China.  The two girls were the closest of friends and even looked a lot like each other.  One family decided to have their daughter's DNA tested and then so did the other.  The DNA found out that the two girls were sisters.  

[allyisyourpally5]

I looked after a little girl at my old work who was adopted at birth (I believe her mom was a drug addict so it was decided during pregnancy so she went straight into the care of the adoptive parents). She was 4 and she knew, she had been raised knowing a simple story that her mom and dad wanted a child and her mom was unable to look after her and gave her to a better home - too young to get the full extent but at that point her adoptive parents were mom and dad and she knew no different and was accepting. Obviously though, she was only 4 years old.....

I have a boy in my class now who was adopted at 18 months - and I think what our Fundie friends don’t realise is that, even if you adopt a baby, they can have issues. The boy in my class is a lovely boy - but he suffers major separation anxiety. He is also still feeling the impact of the neglect he suffered as an infant - he craves the attention and reassurance and sadly often goes down the easy route to get attention and a hug and that’s by acting up. Babies remember more than we realise.

And the simple view of “just adopt a baby of you can’t have on” that so many pro lifers like the Maxwells seem to hold.....it makes me so mad inside. It takes a special person to adopt someone else’s child, especially when they aren’t a newborn. And that’s why a lot of unwanted, unloved and mistreated children never do get adopted. And the older the are the less chance of it happening. Sadly for all the people who tell woman seeking abortion to just give their baby up, there isn’t a line round the block of every clinic waiting to pick these babies up. 

[Jana814]

I have a feeling that if any of the Maxwell offspring decided to adopt, Steve wouldn’t accept the child. That could be the reason Nathan & Melanie kept on trying to have kids even with all the issues she had because maybe in the back of their minds they knew if they adopted Steve would never accept the child as a grandchild. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Jana814

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Well only one of the signs said anything about adoption.

I think the big problem with adoption is people would rather have biological children than adopt. And most people don't want huge families. (I understand why people would rather have small biological families.) Infertility treatments are becoming better and better so there are fewer childless couples to adopt. And some people would rather not have kids. 

I think most of the Maxwells have/will have enough kids without adopting. If Steve is pro-life, he should welcome adopted grandchildren.

 

[Maggie Mae]

On 10/8/2020 at 7:01 AM, fundiefan said:

But a woman who is going out of fear, or because she was told to,

If she was "told to" and doesn't want to have an abortion (for whatever reason), then whoever is forcing her into having an abortion is in the wrong. That's part of being pro-choice. Even if it was her doctor, telling her she would die if she doesn't get the abortion, being an autonomous adult means you get to make those decisions. Even when almost everyone would disagree with her. I still doubt the crowds of people shouting and waving signs does much besides making sign wavers feel good. And I say that as someone who waves signs and chants outside of Lisa Murkowski's office on at least a semi-annual basis. (Not about abortion.) 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Maggie Mae

[Hane]

My younger BIL was adopted as a toddler, and always knew he was. As an adult, he searched for his birth mother, only to find a letter saying she wanted no contact with him. This messed him up—and his adoptive parents weren’t the warmest parents on earth themselves.

A woman I know was forced to give up her baby at birth in the ‘60s, when she was in her late teens. The nun in charge of the unwed mothers’ home she was sent to informed her that she’d be excommunicated from the Catholic Church if she didn’t give her baby up. (This is a lie.) She was never able to have another child. She tried to find out where the child was as an adult, and found a blunt “leave me alone” letter.

Ex-Mr.-Hane-#2 and his first wife adopted their second child. They looked good on paper, but damn if they didn’t have a horribly dysfunctional marriage. The sad part is that the little boy, whom they adopted at 1.5, was wanted by both his foster-parents-from-birth, but neither foster parent wanted to admit to the other that they wanted to adopt him. (I think that it was because of financial reasons.)

My mom’s best friends adopted their first daughter at birth in the early ‘50s, after ten years of failure to conceive, then had two surprise babies soon after. Their oldest daughter looked far more like her mom than the other kids did. Everything seemed fine until she was a young adult and started searching for her roots. It seems her bio mom was a college student who got pregnant by a married man. The whole thing upset her and she kind of went off the rails.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Hane

[Bethy]

7 hours ago, Hane said:

My mom’s best friends adopted their first daughter at birth in the early ‘50s, after ten years of failure to conceive, then had two surprise babies soon after. Their oldest daughter looked far more like her mom than the other kids did. Everything seemed fine until she was a young adult and started searching for her roots. It seems her bio mom was a college student who got pregnant by a married man. The whole thing upset her and she kind of went off the rails.

With all of the DNA testing that's so widely available and people connecting with relatives they didn't know they had, you would absolutely be a fool to adopt a child and NOT tell them. I mean, that would be totally unfair and dishonest to the child fifty years ago, but I'm sure it happened frequently - especially if the family ended up with a child who looked biologically like them. It sounds like your mom's friends could have easily passed her off as their bio daughter since they resembled each other - and thankfully, it sounds like they were open about it - but today DNA would tell the tale. I cannot imagine the trust issues that many grown adults are undoubtedly experiencing today, finding out that their parents lied and they actually share zero DNA with the people who raised them.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I’m adopted and now in loving contact with both sides of my biological family and it has been amazing. 

[Jana814]

6 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I’m adopted and now in loving contact with both sides of my biological family and it has been amazing. 

That’s wonderful!!  

[Tangy Bee]

21 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

So Very Good News about the Bed Bugs. 

They did search the entire house, tape everything off, and it's okay. They have no idea where the bed bugs came from. 

And they hired a professional-  a beagle trained to sniff for bed bugs. 

Wait...there are dogs that can sniff bed bugs? I wonder how you train them for that?? I've learned so much on FJ and Tik Tok this year!

[kpmom]

57 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

Wait...there are dogs that can sniff bed bugs? I wonder how you train them for that?? I've learned so much on FJ and Tik Tok this year!

Same here.

All I could think of while reading that was the lawn maintenance Goats-for-Hire Steve wrote about a month or two ago.

What's next there in Leavenworth? Bus driving cats?

[PennySycamore]

I'd heard about bedbug sniffing beagles a few years ago.  Beages are pretty amazing dogs: sweet dispositions, velvety ears,  noses that can sniff out bugs, drugs and cancer, and those soulful eyes. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by PennySycamore
teeny riffle

[Bluebirdbluebell]

4 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

Wait...there are dogs that can sniff bed bugs? I wonder how you train them for that?? I've learned so much on FJ and Tik Tok this year!

The blog has pictures of the beagle and his handler. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Dogs can sniff cancer, and they can find most substances trafficked by drug sellers, so why not bed bugs? For once I like something the Maxwell's have done!

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I like them using the dog to sniff bedbugs too! It's just a lot of us had never heard of bed-bug sniffing dogs. 

[smittykins]

21 hours ago, Hane said:

My younger BIL was adopted as a toddler, and always knew he was. As an adult, he searched for his birth mother, only to find a letter saying she wanted no contact with him. This messed him up—and his adoptive parents weren’t the warmest parents on earth themselves.

A woman I know was forced to give up her baby at birth in the ‘60s, when she was in her late teens. The nun in charge of the unwed mothers’ home she was sent to informed her that she’d be excommunicated from the Catholic Church if she didn’t give her baby up. (This is a lie.) She was never able to have another child. She tried to find out where the child was as an adult, and found a blunt “leave me alone” letter.

Ex-Mr.-Hane-#2 and his first wife adopted their second child. They looked good on paper, but damn if they didn’t have a horribly dysfunctional marriage. The sad part is that the little boy, whom they adopted at 1.5, was wanted by both his foster-parents-from-birth, but neither foster parent wanted to admit to the other that they wanted to adopt him. (I think that it was because of financial reasons.)

My mom’s best friends adopted their first daughter at birth in the early ‘50s, after ten years of failure to conceive, then had two surprise babies soon after. Their oldest daughter looked far more like her mom than the other kids did. Everything seemed fine until she was a young adult and started searching for her roots. It seems her bio mom was a college student who got pregnant by a married man. The whole thing upset her and she kind of went off the rails.

I have the book The Girls Who Went Away on my iPad.  I need to finish it.(There was a story of a pregnant young woman who was told by her priest that her baby couldn’t be baptized because the father wasn’t Catholic, which is also a lie.)

[Captain Obvious]

So I got bored last night (lockdown is starting to really suck) and decided to skim through the recent videos at the Open Door church. The Maxwells were there three of the last four Sundays. Probably 50-100 people are in the sanctuary each time, nobody is wearing masks, no social distancing, and they're also passing round collection plates and communion wafers/cups.

I sure hope they're staying away from Gigi and Anna-Marie. Leavenworth county is still on an average of 13 new cases per day.