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Justin and Claire: Woe Is Me

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FluffySnowball
42 minutes ago, ignorantobserver said:

Didn't the cheating already happen in Josh's marriage ? I am not so sure about a scandal. I agree that those marriages are not all going to work out, maybe not even most of them, but that doesn't mean the public will learn about anything unsavory going on. The whole claim to fame of the Duggar clan relies on their image as a wholesome, religious mega-family. Anything contradicting this image is going to be kept under wraps for as long as possible. And as long as nobody decides to publish a tell-all, this strategy might just work. I think of it like a 1950s rural community - lots of men are cheating, beating their wives, secretly sleeping with guys ; lots of wives are cheating, insulting their husband on a regular basis and drinking hard alcohol, but everyone stays quiet about these things so the outside world never learns about them. A homosexual person can perfectly well marry someone of the opposite gender, have a few kids and never cheat on their spouse. A smiling wife can secretly hate her husband, or be afraid of him. A friendly, hard-working family man can secretly struggle with addiction or depression. We can't read their thoughts. For us to learn about the private problems of the young Duggars, they would need to decide to share them, which in their case seems inherently improbable. Even if one or several young adults were to break away from the cult, they might (and probably would !) decide that they want privacy, allowing the network to reframe the event as something normal, which absolutely would happen because a major quarrel within the family would be contrary to the show's basic premises.

You make a good point and I notice I didn’t make myself clear enough. What I meant by speculating that there will be other Duggar scandals such as divorces was that the lovely, wholesome, aren’t-we-just-the-sweetest-family imagine might be tainted. So such occurrences might be scandalous for such a public IBLP family and the Duggar brand, but not a scandal in our eyes. Also, keep in mind that while the Duggar children might still publicly toe JD and Michelle’s line even after a possible divorce (or whatever else might happen), not all spouses are like Anna. 

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Bluebirdbluebell

I grew up Catholic and it is still sort-of taboo to divorce in the Catholic church. But it happens often enough, that I don't any religion can prevent divorce entirely. 

Edited by Bluebirdbluebell

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FluffySnowball
27 minutes ago, Bridgecape said:

I think things will continue to look toasty and nice till the show ends and then the gloves come of.

That’s possible, but the relationships don’t consist only of the Duggars - each Duggar couple also has a spouse from another family. And throughout the last very few years, we could witness just how quickly Derick Dillard (Jill’s husband) got disillusioned with his in-laws.
A dozen marriages down the road and there might be another disgruntled spouse. Or an angry Duggar son or daughter - who realizes he/she is desperately unhappy with an arranged early marriage and numerous kids - might have enough and lash out. Anger can make people act in various ways, and if I were a Duggar kid, I’d be so angry... the corporal punishments, limited education, suffocating faith, controlled dating, lack of physical autonomy... 

Edited by FluffySnowball

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onekidanddone
1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

Well JB has to do something to try and sustain the series and if it means marrying off 2 teenagers then so be it.

So we’ll have the whole faux shock of the proposal that she absolutely knew was coming, over to Miss Renee to pick a dress, Jana decorating their home ( quick plug for Jana’s business) , the ‘guys’ eating manly steaks and discussing men things and the women asking her if she’s pregnant. They’ll be kissing for the 1st time after the wedding and leaving the number of children up to God.

Have I missed anything out? 

JB’s Legos pep talk before the wedding 

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Unicorn28

I wonder if JB marries off his children soon if they look or seem like they can be troublemakers. Josh, Josiah, and now Justin. Makes one wonder if Justin was showing signs of rebellion or normal teenage hormones that may have trouble being repressed. Or JB could just be marrying them off young and dumb and by the time the kids figure it out they have a couple of kids of their own and can't get away from the Bank of JB or are just too deep to not need Daddy's help!

Im sure JB has learned his lesson from Derrick and will make sure his remaining daughters are married with men that are deep in the cult! No more outsiders! 

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hasunah
3 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

 

Now that the middle boys are aged 16-21, maybe we should stop calling them the Howlers. Any suggestions?

Growlers

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nausicaa
2 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

And then this happens. Do they expect secular people (outside fundamentalism) to think this is normal? Do they think it will roll off like water on a duck's back? That there won't be an outcry or criticism from the public? It might be normal in their circle, but JB and M must know it is not common outside fundie circles. Especially since they lived a secular life before. I know both of them got married at the age, but even in 1984, 18 was considered a young bride and groom.

Even most Christian conservatives I know would be bothered by this. I mean, Justin is still legally a child. It's kinda squicky. 

The small group of conservative evangelical and Mormon women from my high school mostly married between the ages of 21 to 24. I'm in Virginia so I know a lot of people who went to Liberty University, and while a "ring by spring" was definitely a thing there, that still meant getting engaged at 20 or 21. And you'd been in college living in dorms away from your parents for a couple years. 

There's also the practical issue of how he will support his wife. If you believe in traditional marriages and gender roles (and no birth control), it makes even less sense for some teenage boy with no degrees, job skills, or savings to be preparing to "lead" a family. 

Do we even know if Justin has finished his high school studies (paltry though they may be)?

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Aoife
48 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

True, one cannot compare an arranged relationship within a cult with an “organically grown” one - even when both couples started dating/courting when they were really young. 

Absolutely.  My nephew just got engaged to his high school sweetheart - they've been together since they were 15. Difference is, they're 27/28 now, they went to separate colleges, and they've lived together for years. So they're capable of making adult decisions.

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EmeraldGGGG

Absolutely whack that a 17 year old boy is basically pre-engaged. I only hope that it is just the adults capitalising on their natural interest in each other and they actually like each other. Whether they will always like each other is another thing.

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Zebedee

I know (now age 41) one pair who were literal "high school sweethearts", got married, and lived happily ever after. (TBF, I went to a Catholic girls' school, so the odds of this just went down...!) They were both 13/14, at 18 L came to my college, and her boyf went to another uni. They agreed to stay "dating", but keep it open if they met someone else (she did, for a few months). She got the highest mark in the year in geology, he was meh; they were 8 years together then, 4 apart, and got married immediately. She did a PhD for 4 years, he worked, their oldest is 13-14, second (and youngest) 10-11 she did research fellowships (in Antarctica(!) and he looked after the kid) and they are now both 40. So, 27 years together... But, with such obvious differences to Duggar teenage "romances" - like they actually got to know each other in age appropriate manners, alone, lived apart, and support each other in their goals and careers. She's still the homeloving career woman she always was, and he never had any pretensions of being the "head" and all that crap.

Of "young" marriages, the only people I knew (apart from L) who got married straight out of college were very religious (mostly baptist). The 2 Catholic pairs (L included) are together 20 years later, and have what seem to be fulfilling independent lives, with 2 kids and a happy family. They all stayed "pure" for marriage, but no stupid dating rules. Of the others, well, the only couple who hasn't divorced is also a school pairing; all of them were far less ridiculous than side-hugs only, and certainly not QF or anything. The long-term partners were trusted by their religious parents to be in a room together alone (gasp!) and get an education and make a career, and their own choices about children. The divorced ones: all met at uni, and got married a year or less later. 
 Obv, this doesn't mean there are no happy high-school sweetheart marriages, just that the main problem with these fundie matches is there is no "high-school" or social equivalent. 

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Bazinga
2 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

How in the hell are the Howlers 16-21????? When did that happen? 🤣

Other random thoughts today:  Duggars are pretty good at marrying off sons and daughters. Why are Bates only able to marry off the girls? (besides Zach)

Because their boys are too busy staring at themselves in the mirror. 😂

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Bluebirdbluebell

I've been listening to Folklore (Taylor Swift). She's got this teenage love triangle that runs through the album with 3 different songs. Betty is one song and I keep thinking about the line "I'm only seventeen, I don't Know anything..."

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WarriorJane

Waaaiiit a minute.  These 2 are awfully close physically in those Instagram pix.  I thought they could hold hands only once they started courting.  He has his arm around her in the ski pic and the ugly Christmas sweater pic.  And they're faces are really close in that Richie Cunningham malt shop picture too.  Why that saucy lil' minx had been giving away pieces of his heart since last winter!

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Snarkasarus Rex
8 minutes ago, WarriorJane said:

Waaaiiit a minute.  These 2 are awfully close physically in those Instagram pix.  I thought they could hold hands only once they started courting.  He has his arm around her in the ski pic and the ugly Christmas sweater pic.  And they're faces are really close in that Richie Cunningham malt shop picture too.  Why that saucy lil' minx had been giving away pieces of his heart since last winter!

They’ve been pre-courting/courting for nearly a year...it just wasn’t publicly announced until now. 

Edited by Snarkasarus Rex
Actual courting date unknown, but sounds like he’s been living with them for months.

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WarriorJane
2 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

They’ve been courting for nearly a year...it just wasn’t publicly announced until now. 

oh, got it.   I thought they were "getting to know " each other.   He really is young.

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ADoyle90815

If they've been courting for nearly a year, they'll announce the engagement for his 18th birthday, with a possible December wedding at the earliest. To me, she looks like she could have been a teacher who groomed a student and marries him as soon as he turns 18.

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Daisy0322

What is the deal with the milkshake standard fundie pic? I mean spring and get the girl her own... she’s about to push out at least 12 if your giant Duggar headed children in the next 20 years. 

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Bluebirdbluebell
8 minutes ago, ADoyle90815 said:

If they've been courting for nearly a year, they'll announce the engagement for his 18th birthday, with a possible December wedding at the earliest. To me, she looks like she could have been a teacher who groomed a student and marries him as soon as he turns 18.

She's less than 2 years older than him though. She isn't some scheming older woman. I don't what she looks like. Both of these teens were probably pushed into this by their crazy parents. 

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AussieKrissy

I have nothing to add that has not been said already. Except that I always found Justin the odd one out in the looks department. He does not look like most of the other boys, at a push I could have said he was the most like Jill, but in the people pictures I can really see Joy, her colouring her mouth and jaw. 

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ihaveanexamintwodays

I feel like ever since Abbie came in to the story, everyone's starting to look like Jana to me....Abbie looks a hint like Jana+curls, Johannah is starting to look like Jana/Jinger, Jenni's got the Jana quirky smile, Claire looks kind of like Jana too 😂😂

Also, props to whoever nicknamed this pair "claritin"/Clairtin lmao. These teenage courtships are more uncomfortable than hay fever. 

To me it seems like a boy and a girl with a crush....boy naturally can't stop talking about girl, girl simpers over boy. And then - boy's parents ask "boy, have you talked to girl's parents?" as fundies do....girl's parents are all ready for their baby to be all-grown-up, and the fundie-famous future in-laws are a nice perk 😒

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nst
25 minutes ago, ADoyle90815 said:

If they've been courting for nearly a year, they'll announce the engagement for his 18th birthday, with a possible December wedding at the earliest. To me, she looks like she could have been a teacher who groomed a student and marries him as soon as he turns 18.

and mary kay letourneau died last month 

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QuiverFullofBooks
4 hours ago, ignorantobserver said:

What on earth is the boy going to do to feed his family ? I don't believe that a reality TV star, even a relatively successful one like JB Duggar, can make enough money to feed twelve adult children (I am being generous and assume that some of the girls will marry men who actually work), as well as their spouses and children forever. But then, I don't know the budget of these TV channels. How much money can he realistically have, and how might he invest it in order to allow his children to make a decent living ? If he really tries to finance his children and their families entirely, he would need something like 15-20 million dollars, just for one generation. That seems completely unrealistic to me.

I mean, for this second generation alone, we are talking about 80-90 people (I assume 10-12 dependant children, plus spouses, plus 5-6 children each) entirely dependant on the payroll of a TV network. For decades. Is that sustainable ?

They’re not entirely dependent on the TV income by any means. Before the show started, Jim Bob and Michelle (who worked in their business much more than they want to admit now) had been fairly successful. They flipped properties, rented properties, and leased land to a cell phone company for a tower. They had also worked in used car sales and towing (they seem to have stopped that for a few years while they were at peak kids/fame, and then revived it for the boys). They had started building the big house. They’ve invested the TV money in the property business, and probably other investments too. They made over a million dollars when they flipped the Baylor House. It’s not clear how much the older boys are working for themselves and how much they’re working for Jim Bob, but it’s clear that they do work, and that they’re given some capital to invest. Their salaries and health insurance would be deductible on Jim Bob’s taxes. They also live in a very affordable area. Yes, they’re probably going to have to give up the private planes one of these days, but most of them are going to be fine.

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SPHASH

So if Justin marries in the next few months the only kids left at the compound are Jana, Jason, Jackson, Johannah, Jenny, Jordyn, and Josie.  The twins moved out but aren't courting anyone AFAIW.  So let Jana leave!

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ihaveanexamintwodays
2 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

So if Justin marries in the next few months the only kids left at the compound are Jana, Jason, Jackson, Johannah, Jenny, Jordyn, and Josie.  The twins moved out but aren't courting anyone AFAIW.  So let Jana leave!

^ and James 😂 unless James really does "ship" with some fundie girl soon. I think Jana stays at the TTH for the comfort of a "home base" while she has the freedom to do more of whatever she wants lol.

 

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