Trump 49: The Firehose of Fucknuttery—Now With Covid

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

 

What gets me is this is less news and more confirmation. We knew he was lying about his "wealth". We knew he was a con artist. We knew he was a rip off merchant who would try to scam everyone he thought he could get away with, from contractors to peers to the government. None of this will make a dent with his rabid fans, which is both depressing and disturbing.

[fraurosena]

For those of us who do not have much understanding of how all those tax loopholes work, and don't want to get into the intricacies (ok, quagmire) of Trump's tax returns: This is a very comprehensive overview of exactly how much debt Trump has hanging around his neck, in easily understandable tweets doing the math step by step -- or debt by debt.

Thread (longish but easy to read).

ETA: The thread is ongoing, and now listing his profits. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by fraurosena

[Alisamer]

17 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

I'm sure he really thinks Obama was a sucker for paying taxes.

 

5 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

What gets me is this is less news and more confirmation. We knew he was lying about his "wealth". We knew he was a con artist. We knew he was a rip off merchant who would try to scam everyone he thought he could get away with, from contractors to peers to the government. None of this will make a dent with his rabid fans, which is both depressing and disturbing.

The Trump supporters I've spoken to (and these are not rabid fans, just people who think he's doing a good job) laugh and say "good for him!" for finding "loopholes" and getting out of paying any taxes. This was before this news came out, and I haven't had the "so... how do you feel about how much YOU paid in taxes last year versus the $750 Trump paid?" discussion with anyone yet. 

They think he's SMART for finding ways not to pay taxes. They wish they could do the same. 

I don't think even pointing out the amount of tax money that THEY paid that goes directly into Trump's pockets for his golfing trips (minimum 5 figures a month, every month, possibly more) would make a difference. 

These are people who think people who make billions shouldn't be taxed more, because "it's their money" - despite the fact that money is being completely removed from the economy and stashed overseas. Despite the fact that the wealthiest people simply make so much so fast they can't possibly spend it. Despite the fact that someone could siphon off fully half or more of their money and they'd still live a super lavish lifestyle that wouldn't change the tiniest bit. No matter how much better society as a whole would be, if just some of that money could be used to help people in need.

I even know a guy who thinks the government should not have any help or safety nets available for anyone - like many other Republicans I've spoken to they believe that should be left up to private charities. He very specifically refuses to donate to any charities that help people, though, even Habitat for Humanity. He'll donate to cancer research and to the ASPCA to "help the puppies and the kitties", but poor people? "Fuck 'em." 

[Vivi_music]

I really suck at understand tax loopholes and such, so I'm gonna ask a question butit might be a dumb one, so bare with me.

Could it be possible that Trump declared losses to the IRS, to be able to benefit from certain loopholes, but has most of his fortune hidden in secret accounts offshore? It is pure speculation but he strikes me as the type of person to use tax haven or hidden accounts.

[Alisamer]

9 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

I really suck at understand tax loopholes and such, so I'm gonna ask a question butit might be a dumb one, so bare with me.

Could it be possible that Trump declared losses to the IRS, to be able to benefit from certain loopholes, but has most of his fortune hidden in secret accounts offshore? It is pure speculation but he strikes me as the type of person to use tax haven or hidden accounts.

I think that might be possible, but I suspect not. I think his businesses are essentially a Ponzi scheme - he buys something, slaps his name on it, and gets people to invest in it. Then he strips it of everything of value, declares a loss on taxes so he doesn't have to pay any, and moves on to the next thing. Any investors or contractors he can't stiff, he pays from the investments in whatever he slaps his name on next, and on and on... and when things pile up too much, he declares bankruptcy and starts over again. 

He'll be declaring bankruptcy again once those hundred millions in debt come due, no doubt, unless he manages to stay in office and legislates himself a way around it. 

I'm curious about what Melania thinks of all this. The potential income from a tell-all book deal might be looking more and more promising these days. 

[fraurosena]

8 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I'm curious about what Melania thinks of all this. The potential income from a tell-all book deal might be looking more and more promising these days. 

Melania writing a book?

Ha, it will most likely be a plagiarised version of "Becoming" by Michelle Obama. To differentiate, she'll call it "Coming".  

[fraurosena]

Trump's going to be livid when he finds out.

 

[JMarie]

Frothy was on CNN this morning, saying it's quite possible to earn zero income while working in real estate. Jr. was on Fox and Friends, hopped up about Hunter Biden's taxes (caffeine and/or coke may have contributed to his animated state).

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, fraurosena said:

Melania writing a book?

Ha, it will most likely be a plagiarised version of "Becoming" by Michelle Obama. To differentiate, she'll call it "Coming".  

I doubt she ever did, though.

Perhaps "Faking" would be a better name for the book.

Off to the prayer closet . . .

[GreyhoundFan]

"Trump’s taxes show why he is desperate to stay in office"

Spoiler

During the first presidential debate in 2016, Hillary Clinton speculated that Donald Trump was keeping his taxes secret because he didn’t want Americans to know that “maybe he’s not as rich as he says he is,” “maybe he’s not as charitable as he claims to be,” and maybe “he’s paid nothing in federal taxes.”

The New York Times just confirmed that Clinton was right — and reveals why President Trump has tried so hard to keep his taxes secret. It somehow managed to obtain Trump’s tax returns, which show that he is either a terrible businessman or a massive tax cheat — or possibly both. He managed to pay no federal income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — and only $750 in 2016 and 2017 — by claiming vast losses from his business empire. That $750 figure is a killer because it’s a number that middle-class Americans can understand. As a just-released Biden campaign ad points out, that’s far less than the taxes paid by the average teacher, nurse or firefighter.

The latest Times story neatly complements a previous Times scoop in 2018 which showed that, far from being a self-made man, young Trump received $413 million from his father — and squandered it in a series of failed deals. The new article picks up the story, showing that Trump received another windfall from “The Apprentice” and related deals — and then promptly squandered that, too. By July, the newspaper reports, the supposed billionaire had no more than $873,000 in securities left to sell.

The Times article supports the assumption that Trump ran for president in 2015 — a race he never expected to win — to revive his flagging fortunes. That is, in fact, what Trump’s former lawyer, Michael Cohen, told Congress last year: “Mr. Trump would often say this campaign was going to be the greatest infomercial in political history. . . . The campaign for him was always a marketing opportunity.”

Once Trump unexpectedly won, the marketing opportunities only increased for the most unethical president in our history. Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) just released a report showing that Trump has 3,400 conflicts of interest. He has profited from his presidency by making repeated visits to his own properties with his vast entourage in tow, while lobbyists, political groups and foreign governments have also paid to stay at his properties.

Trump tried to secure even more lucrative paydays by announcing that the Group of Seven summit would be held at his Miami-area golf resort and reportedly instructing the U.S. ambassador in London to pressure the British government to move the British Open golf tournament to his Scottish resort. Both schemes blew up in Trump’s face, raising the issue of why someone as rich as he claims to be would engage in such blatant profiteering. Now, we know the answer. Trump is not just less wealthy than he claims; he is up to his eyeballs in debt.

The Times reports that Trump is on the hook for $421 million in debt, much of which is coming due soon. As former FBI agent Josh Campbell points out, that much debt “disqualifies most people from obtaining a government security clearance,” because the U.S. government “views this as a vulnerability and a point of leverage for foreign adversaries seeking access to classified information.”

The Times account did not specify who Trump’s creditors are and sheds little light on his business connections with Russia. It did note that he made more money from holding the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow in 2013 — $2.3 million — than from any other pageant. That money came from the Agalarov family, which is close to Russian President Vladimir Putin, and which lost $10 million on the transaction.

This should serve as a reminder that special counsel Robert S. Mueller III refused to look into Trump’s financial dealings with Russia, which Trump said was a red line for him. That investigation still needs to be conducted. But even the bare facts revealed by the Times show why both former FBI agent Peter Strzok and former director of national intelligence Daniel Coats suspect that (as Coats told Bob Woodward) “Putin had something on Trump.”

And Putin isn’t alone. The Times shows that Trump made millions of dollars during his presidency from licensing deals in places such as the Philippines, Turkey and India, rendering him vulnerable to pressure from the strongmen in power in all of those countries. Indeed, former national security adviser John Bolton said that Trump’s decision-making on Turkey was motivated by Trump’s business interests. That is a shocking corruption of U.S. foreign policy.

Will any of it matter? It’s true that the Times’s revelations are unlikely to move Trump’s devoted supporters to vote for Joe Biden. But they do disrupt Trump’s ability to get his message across with only 36 days left in an election that he is losing.

The Times has done an impressive job of getting the truth out, and now it is up to the voters to decide whether they want to reelect a flimflam man. The Times account makes clear that Trump is desperate to stay in office in no small part because he needs to profit from the presidency — and to avoid the risk of prosecution for tax fraud and other possible crimes.

 

[onekidanddone]

1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

I doubt she ever did, though.

Perhaps "Faking" would be a better name for the book.

Off to the prayer closet . . .

Hold the door I’m on my way 

[SassyPants]

7 hours ago, Alisamer said:

 

The Trump supporters I've spoken to (and these are not rabid fans, just people who think he's doing a good job) laugh and say "good for him!" for finding "loopholes" and getting out of paying any taxes. This was before this news came out, and I haven't had the "so... how do you feel about how much YOU paid in taxes last year versus the $750 Trump paid?" discussion with anyone yet. 

They think he's SMART for finding ways not to pay taxes. They wish they could do the same. 

I don't think even pointing out the amount of tax money that THEY paid that goes directly into Trump's pockets for his golfing trips (minimum 5 figures a month, every month, possibly more) would make a difference. 

These are people who think people who make billions shouldn't be taxed more, because "it's their money" - despite the fact that money is being completely removed from the economy and stashed overseas. Despite the fact that the wealthiest people simply make so much so fast they can't possibly spend it. Despite the fact that someone could siphon off fully half or more of their money and they'd still live a super lavish lifestyle that wouldn't change the tiniest bit. No matter how much better society as a whole would be, if just some of that money could be used to help people in need.

I even know a guy who thinks the government should not have any help or safety nets available for anyone - like many other Republicans I've spoken to they believe that should be left up to private charities. He very specifically refuses to donate to any charities that help people, though, even Habitat for Humanity. He'll donate to cancer research and to the ASPCA to "help the puppies and the kitties", but poor people? "Fuck 'em." 

And if private entities and churches were meeting and could meet all the various needs presented, we wouldn’t need government to step in, but too many people have attitudes similar to your friend’s. So many people live in fantasy land-

[fraurosena]

 

[formergothardite]

16 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I think that might be possible, but I suspect not. I think his businesses are essentially a Ponzi scheme - he buys something, slaps his name on it, and gets people to invest in it. Then he strips it of everything of value, declares a loss on taxes so he doesn't have to pay any, and moves on to the next thing. Any investors or contractors he can't stiff, he pays from the investments in whatever he slaps his name on next, and on and on... and when things pile up too much, he declares bankruptcy and starts over again. 

He'll be declaring bankruptcy again once those hundred millions in debt come due, no doubt, unless he manages to stay in office and legislates himself a way around it. 

I'm curious about what Melania thinks of all this. The potential income from a tell-all book deal might be looking more and more promising these days. 

A type of Ponzi scheme is a very interesting idea. Who bankrupts a casino as fast as he did?! And from what I have read the casinos went under because he pulled all the resources from them.

[GreyhoundFan]

I shudder to imagine all the distraction twitler and his minions will unleash in the next few weeks.

 

[fraurosena]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

A type of Ponzi scheme is a very interesting idea. Who bankrupts a casino as fast as he did?! And from what I have read the casinos went under because he pulled all the resources from them.

Here's an interesting analysis of his finances that might answer your question:

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

[GreyhoundFan]

Jimmy Carter has more integrity in the tip of his pinky finger than Twitler has in his entire bloated orange self: "How Trump’s taxes compare to those of other presidents"

Quote

In 1977, President Jimmy Carter had a problem, according to presidential tax historian Joseph Thorndike. Carter’s federal tax burden for 1976 had been zeroed out by a massive investment tax credit he earned for purchasing equipment and buildings related to his peanut farm.

Carter was upset, as he told The Washington Post at the time, because he had a “strong feeling” that wealthy people like him should pay at least some taxes. So he voluntarily paid the Treasury Department $6,000, the equivalent to 15 percent of his adjusted gross income and slightly more than the 14 percent paid by average taxpayers that year.

How times have changed.

On Sunday, the New York Times reported President Trump paid $750 in federal income tax his first year in office, the lowest first-year tax payment of any president since at least Carter and, in raw dollar terms, significantly less than what the average middle-class American family pays.

Trump’s predecessor Barack Obama, by contrast, paid nearly $1.8 million in federal income tax his first year in office, primarily on royalties from the sale of his books. George W. Bush’s first-year federal tax burden was $250,221, paid largely on his presidential salary and investment income from the blind trusts in which his assets were held. Prior presidents each paid tens of thousands of dollars in taxes during the first years of their administrations.

On Monday, Trump tweeted, “I paid many millions of dollars in taxes but was entitled, like everyone else, to depreciation & tax credits.” He also claimed his assets far outpaced his debts and boasted about giving away his presidential salary. That salary, however, is just a fraction of the income and losses he reports on his businesses. It has little bearing on his overall tax burden.

“Almost none of [Trump’s predecessors] were major capitalists,” said Eugene Steuerle, a fellow at the Urban Institute. “Most of their income was in wages and, in some cases, books. Those tend to be taxed fairly well.”

Trump, however, is different. He stands out for his vast reported wealth, which dwarfs that of any of his predecessors. That wealth is largely tied to his commercial real estate and resort holdings, which are overseen by hundreds of different business entities, the Times reported, which allowed Trump to slash his federal tax burden by exploiting loopholes in the tax code and declaring extensive losses on some of those entities.

“Most very wealthy people can easily avoid individual taxation with support from tax laws that provide them with discretion over how much tax they pay, bankruptcy laws that allow them to pass on losses to others even while they retain gains elsewhere, bank lending practices that favor the rich, and a monetary policy that for the last three decades has hugely subsidized wealthy investors,” Steuerle said.

At a 2016 presidential debate, Trump boasted he was “smart” for not paying federal income tax. Unlike every other major party presidential candidate since Richard Nixon, Trump has refused to release his tax returns. The documents analyzed by the Times show more than $400 million in debts coming due soon, a potential national security issue.

Thorndike, the presidential tax historian, said “a president is not like anybody else. They are the taxpayer in chief and the tax collector in chief. They are their own tax enforcer.” For that reason, he says, there should be a law mandating the disclosure of presidential tax returns. Otherwise, “there’s really no way to be sure they’re meeting their obligations, because at the end of the day the IRS answers to them.”

 

[WiseGirl]

I'm not sure where to put this. She rocks and she is right. 

[fraurosena]

More bad news for Trump.

 

[AnywhereButHere]

This debate is a fucking shit show. Fucknut’s strategy is apparently just to talk over both Biden and Chris Wallace, and drive them both into losing their cool, and his leghumpers will just say “Look! He’s such a strong debater! He won!” 
 

I’m disgusted, and it’s only 5 minutes in. Chris Wallace needs to get a handle on this. 
 

And my husband needs to stop shouting SHUT UP SHUT UP at the tv, because it’s just adding to the pandemonium. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by AnywhereButHere

[Giraffe]

FUCK TRUMP! I don’t even have words for this!  @AnywhereButHere, “shitshow” is the best descriptor. 

[CTRLZero]

My husband and daughter are texting while watching (she’s a few time zones away).  I’ll be debriefed later, but so far she keeps saying, “gross!”  I have a hard time listening to Trump, so I’ve retreated to a safe space.  Wine is involved. 

[Loveday]

1 minute ago, CTRLZero said:

My husband and daughter are texting while watching (she’s a few time zones away).  I’ll be debriefed later, but so far she keeps saying, “gross!”  I have a hard time listening to Trump, so I’ve retreated to a safe space.  Wine is involved. 

I need wine. I don't drink wine. I don't drink anything, really, but tonight I need wine. And I don't have any.

I need wine.

[Giraffe]

Trump’s complaining that Biden “always wears masks” as though it’s a bad thing! WTF?!? I’d love to be in the room with Fauci tonight. Omg!