M Is For Mama 8: She Really Is Awful

[The butcher's wife]

1 hour ago, danvillebelle said:

ETA: there are two photos in my mom's family photo albums that she took of me when I was little (under age 5) where I was very upset and/or about to cry.  I remember the circumstances around both vividly.  My mom and dad think they're funny.  I hate them.  

I can understand that sentiment very well. We have a little pond in my dad's backyard. We redid it about 20 years ago to be inside of one of those solid plastic shells, before that it was basically just a hole in the ground with pond liner to keep the water in (rats kept chewing holes in it, that's why we changed it). Anyway, the pond wasn't level with the surrounding area; about a foot of sheer pond liner was always showing between the surface of the water and the ground. When I was five I fell into said pond, trying to catch either frogs or fish, I don't remember. My parents were inside at the dining room table overlooking the backyard. Do you think one of them came out to get me? Nope, they picked up the video camera and took a video of me struggling to get back out. The pond was over 4 feet deep, so I couldn't stand in it. I could swim, but getting out of the water over the steep, wet pond liner wasn't easy. Also present was my younger sister who, instead of getting help, just stood there and watched (she was 3, so I don't blame her for not helping in this situation). I managed to get myself out after a few minutes. It's not as if I struggled for a long time, but I still remember my parents behind the window, laughing and filming me, and while I don't remember too many things from my early childhood, this stands out quite clearly.

It is to be noted that this was not usual beviour for my parents, they were and still are caring and loving towards us kids. Maybe I should dig out that tape sometime and it will look a lot less dramatic than it felt at the time, but still. Taking the time to take a picture or video of your upset child over taking the time to comfort/help them? Only one right answer to that conundrum in my book.

Edited November 2, 2020 by The butcher's wife

[danvillebelle]

My dad still thinks it's funny to tell embarrassing stories about me in front of other people.  It's not.  It's so, so not.

With 10 kids, the chances that one or more of them are highly sensitive is pretty high.  I feel for them.

[teachergirl]

Y'all, I live in TN, go to the Smokies twice a year ( sometimes) and I cannot with this woman.  They are SO CROWDED right now and she takes her newborns out, in a pandemic to Pigeon Forge???? Why on Earth would you drive that far with that many children to the Smokies?? Have we ever found out who pays for these trips? I have been to Stampede and those tickets are expensive, the only ones who would be free are the babies and and Shiloh.... And thank you to whoever said why that showtime? There is an afternoon and a 6 oclock one I believe....

[JermajestyDuggar]

Embarrassing stories from my childhood don’t bother me too much but I can always come back with embarrassing stories about my parents. “If we are talking about old times, does anyone remember when you all left me at grandma’s 90 miles away and no one even noticed for over an hour?” It goes both ways

Edited November 2, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[anachronistic]

Does anyone else see a mans face on the head of that blankie the baby carries around? I can’t copy the picture but it looks weird. Is it photoshop or what?

I had plenty of very intense meltdowns as a kid but nobody ever thought to take pictures because the adults were busy, you know, helping me. There are numerous photos and videos where I was dissociated but only I  because, looking at them, I remember looking down at the scene from the ceiling or watching my body do certain things. There are also instances where a big event happened and I wasn’t in the picture because I was having a meltdown or recovering from one elsewhere. When we look at those nobody ever mentions me missing they just talk about the people in the photos.

It’d be nice to see pics of the kids genuinely enjoying themselves and not just acting in a commercial for Mommy’s Brag Book.

[Skyline]

17 hours ago, bea said:

Oh my GOD, Abbie, stop doing this stuff with your TEN KIDS, holy hell, give them a break.

Well that is just stupid. It's like she wants her little ones to have a meltdown so her life can look soo difficult. 10 kids wouldn't be a walk in that park but she is 100% making her life more difficult for attention. 

Poor little kids. 8:30? They should be snuggling in bed ?‍♀️

[FilleMondaine]

14 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Does the book support women who don't want to breastfeed/pump milk? 

I would not be happy if someone bought me a book like that. Especially if the person wasn't one of my closest friends and family members. 

Totally fair to say. And yes, I should have said, "every new-mom-to-be" that I am close to, rather than making it rain on ALL moms-to-be! Boundaries! And you are totally right to bring it up.

Yes, in my memory, there is indeed support for bottlefeedings. She goes through the list of WHY--including personal preference in order to lower guilt that many women feel (fuck the patriarchy). Still, there are ways to do bottlefeeding that support attachment and closeness that better lactation consultants support. And there are ways to feed a baby more safely (bottle at 90 degrees, no bottle-propping, etc).

If my memory is wrong, it's because author also makes herself available by email, and we had a looooong exchange about exactly your concern! Personal preference along with LGBT issues and especially breastfeeding after Military Sexual Trauma. The author is firmly in the "Feed your Baby" camp.

It is indeed breastfeeding focused, because it is a military-focused book, and because the military is still super patiarchal and weird about women in the military. Much of the book is instructions for asserting oneself as a mother AND as a soldier/sailor/airman/marine. That concept is really hard for patriarchal military-MAN-men to understand. And it's helpful to have the DoD instructions, and some role-playing help ahead of time. (fuck the patriarchy!)

tl/dr: Honestly, I think it is very sad that the most feminist and most supportive/non-judgmental book I have ever found about breastfeeding is...Breastfeeding in Combat Boots. The other books that I have read seem to get angry at women who do not breastfeed, even if there is a "legitimate" reason. ("legitimate" in quotes because ALL baby-feeding is legitimate, not just a narrowly select). In the Sears's "Breastfeeding Book", they tell adoptive mothers to get a weird milk-dispensing necklace or ELSE!

Edited November 2, 2020 by FilleMondaine
To better illustrate society's mom-guilt crap being...crap for women's health. (Fuck the patriarchy!)

[SuperNova]

5 hours ago, anachronistic said:

Does anyone else see a mans face on the head of that blankie the baby carries around? I can’t copy the picture but it looks weird. Is it photoshop or what?

It's a man dressed as a bear making a dumb face. I assume she added it to mock Shiloh even further than just the photo.

6 hours ago, teachergirl said:

Have we ever found out who pays for these trips? I have been to Stampede and those tickets are expensive, the only ones who would be free are the babies and and Shiloh....

They do, as far as we can tell. Shaun makes good money. Plus Abbie wouldn't pass up the opportunity to brag if someone else paid for the trip.

Edited November 2, 2020 by SuperNova

[katilac]

10 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Embarrassing stories from my childhood don’t bother me too much but I can always come back with embarrassing stories about my parents. “If we are talking about old times, does anyone remember when you all left me at grandma’s 90 miles away and no one even noticed for over an hour?” It goes both ways

Indeed, but the two parents I know who have done something similar were/are not at all embarrassed about it. 

[katilac]

Good lord, the Stamped is $30 for 3-9 and $60 10 and up. 

For that kind of money, why not something the kids would enjoy? The massive amount of food at the Stampede is going to be an incredible waste. 

[SuperNova]

It drives me up the friggin' wall the way she keeps harping on Shiloh. It's not cute, it's not relatable, and it makes her look like an even crappier parent than I previously found her to be. Abbie has made multiple mentions in the past about only liking the baby phase before they can walk and talk and are completely reliant on her. I can easily believe it with the way she talks about Shiloh like he's nothing but a bothersome pest. Now maybe that's not the case in real life but that is the optics of what she's choosing to share. What she's sharing makes her look like an uncaring bitch of a mother.

There's a whole slew of pics but I picked Shiloh because he's looking at Abbie like, 'this bitch ain't even got a lousy quarter for me'. 

Spoiler

The rest if the pics gave me anxiety. No one was wearing masks and the kids were touching a variety of public surfaces. I hope the children stay well.

Edited November 3, 2020 by SuperNova

[FilleMondaine]

7 hours ago, SuperNova said:

It drives me up the friggin' wall the way she keeps harping on Shiloh. It's not cute, it's not relatable, and it makes her look like an even crappier parent than I previously found her to be. Abbie has made multiple mentions in the past about only liking the baby phase before they can walk and talk and are completely reliant on her. I can easily believe it with the way she talks about Shiloh like he's nothing but a bothersome pest. Now maybe that's not the case in real life but that is the optics of what she's choosing to share. What she's sharing makes her look like an uncaring bitch of a mother.

All parents get annoyed by their kids sometimes, but "fake it till you make it" is real: if you are having a hard time, then put on a smile, and TRY* to make sure that your kids feel loved. Even if you don't like what they DO, it is still important to show them that they are LOVED.

 

*Caveats for illness, mental exhaustion, etc. That's a good time to take a time out, call a buddy for help, or with no help, then do your best and apologise later for not holding it together at the time. Just don't be a jerk on the internet! Once again, of ALL the good ideas, she chooses the worst one.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I hate that she’s recommending traveling during a pandemic. How many leg humpers will take a trip now that she’s made it seem so great? There’s a large surge right now and people like her are why it’s surging. 

[anachronistic]

Shiloh and Honor are both too young to instigate actual disagreements because they don’t have the reasoning to want to annoy someone deliberately yet. If a kid is continually tantrumming they are either tired, hungry, sick, or need other attention paid to them. Maybe the kids learn young that acting out is the only way to get their moms attention, and they need it. They might not know why they need attention, they might not know what’s wrong, but it’s the job of adults to stop what they’re doing, spend time with a kid, and figure it out. There is a reason why day cares have legal limits on the amount of children per adult caregiver. 

[theotherelise]

Something ridiculous has happened as I follow Abbie... she has made me develop a soft spot for Courtney Rogers! Just comparing the different ways they talk about pregnancy, their children, and their daily lives is striking. I also think the context is important: Courtney grew up fundie and mostly-qf and her husband did too. Abbie made the decision to have a ton of kids as a self-righteous brag that she is more holy.

Shiloh is having such textbook reactions to the new babies, it's really appalling that someone with 10 children doesn't recognize it. And I place just as much responsibility on Shaun. 

There is a lot of advice I wish I could cram into Abbie's head. But if I could only convince her of one thing, it would be to stop doing social media. She talks about her kindness challenge or whatever. I wish her kindness challenge was stepping away for at least a month. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

Something ridiculous has happened as I follow Abbie... she has made me develop a soft spot for Courtney Rogers! Just comparing the different ways they talk about pregnancy, their children, and their daily lives is striking. I also think the context is important: Courtney grew up fundie and mostly-qf and her husband did too. Abbie made the decision to have a ton of kids as a self-righteous brag that she is more holy.

Shiloh is having such textbook reactions to the new babies, it's really appalling that someone with 10 children doesn't recognize it. And I place just as much responsibility on Shaun. 

There is a lot of advice I wish I could cram into Abbie's head. But if I could only convince her of one thing, it would be to stop doing social media. She talks about her kindness challenge or whatever. I wish her kindness challenge was stepping away for at least a month. 

There is definitely a ranking for me when it comes to FJ fundie families. Courtney is way above Braggie, Zoo and JillRod. They are all near the bottom. Depending on the day. 

[TuringMachine]

Comparing Courtney to Braggie hits home just how quickly Courtney has babies. They (currently) have the same number of kids but Courtney's look so much littler.

Edited November 3, 2020 by TuringMachine

[NotQuiteMotY]

Dammit, Abbie, Shiloh is a toddler and one who feels replaced by two new babies even before you pull him out of what routine he has with newborns in the house and gallop all over at bedtime. No duh he's acting out! Put down the phone and take a few minutes to pass the babies to your husband and cuddle him! Read him a book! Have a tickle-fest! Look at him not through a freaking camera lens! And maybe do it at AT HOME rather than traveling during a pandemic!!

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Do her fans not see how insane it is that she expects a child that isn't two yet to be grown up and rational?

She may be too worn out from the twins to do much with Shiloh. I get that.

But for the love of God, I just want her to cut the child some slack. And stop filming all the time!

I'm still not over how much money she spent on the Stampede. What is the cost based on the ages of her children? How many 3-9 year olds doe she have and how many over age 10 and over kids?

Edited November 3, 2020 by Bluebirdbluebell

[theotherelise]

Cost:

• Abbie, Shaun, Ezra, Simon, Della - 60x5
• Honor, Theo, Nola, Evy - 30x4
• Shiloh, Tobias, Titus - FREE

Total = $420

The Airbnb they rented is $300/night plus fees and taxes. I guess they had planned on going to Europe so this is cheaper than that...

[SassyPants]

Folks talking about Abbie spending time with Shiloh, surely you jest. She doesn’t like kids. She likes the attention she receives for having them, but pretty much turfs the work associated to other people. She doesn’t go the extra mile in anything she does beyond things that directly benefit her. She’s all about sex, her body pump classes and date nights because those things benefit her, and do not involve needy children, housework, cooking... She has surrogates to do all the hard work. If she could outsource pregnancy and delivery to her mom, she would. She is despicable.

ETA- and she even knows this about herself. She is forever mentioning how she never saw herself with a big family, as children did not interest her. NEWSFLASH- nothing has changed!!

Edited November 3, 2020 by SassyPants

[Zommom]

5 hours ago, theotherelise said:

Something ridiculous has happened as I follow Abbie... she has made me develop a soft spot for Courtney Rogers! Just comparing the different ways they talk about pregnancy, their children, and their daily lives is striking. I also think the context is important: Courtney grew up fundie and mostly-qf and her husband did too. Abbie made the decision to have a ton of kids as a self-righteous brag that she is more holy.

Shiloh is having such textbook reactions to the new babies, it's really appalling that someone with 10 children doesn't recognize it. And I place just as much responsibility on Shaun. 

There is a lot of advice I wish I could cram into Abbie's head. But if I could only convince her of one thing, it would be to stop doing social media. She talks about her kindness challenge or whatever. I wish her kindness challenge was stepping away for at least a month. 

Who is this Courtney Rogers? Off to do a little digging...

[TuringMachine]

22 minutes ago, Zommom said:

Who is this Courtney Rogers? Off to do a little digging...

https://www.instagram.com/littlehouseinthehighdesert/

They live in New Mexico with their 10, soon to be 11 kids. Courtney is known for her very quick pacing; her oldest is 10 years old. She also loves to tag her posts "#11under11.  And she managed to be on both our "currently pregnant" and "recently gave birth" lists for babies #9 and #10.

She's also known for her naming theme. All the kids of hard C sounding names, and specifically all the boys have single syllables names. If you're thinking that must lead to the kids having very similar names, you're correct!

She has:
Clint, Clay, Cade, Callie, Cash, Colt and Case (twins), Calena, Caydie, and Coralee. 

Yeah that's right. Cade and Caydie.

Edited November 3, 2020 by TuringMachine

[SuperNova]

6 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Folks talking about Abbie spending time with Shiloh, surely you jest. She doesn’t like kids. She likes the attention she receives for having them, but pretty much turfs the work associated to other people. She doesn’t go the extra mile in anything she does beyond things that directly benefit her. She’s all about sex, her body pump classes and date nights because those things benefit her, and do not involve needy children, housework, cooking... She has surrogates to do all the hard work. If she could outsource pregnancy and delivery to her mom, she would. She is despicable.

ETA- and she even knows this about herself. She is forever mentioning how she never saw herself with a big family, as children did not interest her. NEWSFLASH- nothing has changed!!

I was thinking today that Abbie's children are nothing more than a hobby for her. Its a socially acceptable way to keep busy and garner kudos and accolades from like minded people.

I have hobbies too but when I want a break from sewing, or my project frustrates me, or I'm bored with it, I just set it down and close the door to the sewing room until I feel like picking it up again. Not so with children. Their needs don't stop when you get bored or frustrated and that's Abbie's problem. She's bored with Shiloh and has hit ignore while she plays with her newest toys. Incidentally, I do the same thing when I buy a new pattern. The old work in progress gets tossed aside for the new project that's full of promise and zero failures. The difference being that no one gets hurt if I decide to toss it aside. Shiloh doesn't stop having needs just because Abbie is bored with him.

A large portion of her content revolves around the children and yet we know almost nothing about them except that Abbie is their mom and that she never really wanted them. In true narc fashion, she doesn't seem capable of fully registering the fact that her children are autonomous beings who shouldn't have to be at the emotional whims of their negligent parents.

[mango_fandango]

6 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

https://www.instagram.com/littlehouseinthehighdesert/

They live in New Mexico with their 10, soon to be 11 kids. Courtney is known for her very quick pacing; her oldest is 10 years old. She also loves to tag her posts "#11under11.  And she managed to be on both our "currently pregnant" and "recently gave birth" lists for babies #9 and #10.

She's also known for her naming theme. All the kids of hard C sounding names, and specifically all the boys have single syllables names. If you're thinking that must lead to the kids having very similar names, you're correct!

She has:
Clint, Clay, Cade, Callie, Cash, Colt and Case (twins), Calena, Caydie, and Coralee. 

Yeah that's right. Cade and Caydie.

Not to mention the two oldest girls, Callie and Calena.

I am kinda interested to see what she names number 11.