Maxwell 42: The Young and the Vestless

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, Black Aliss said:

Whoever it was upthread that suggested Jesse and Anna ofJesse would be a nerd couple in the real world, I totally agree. I can easily see them attending a Star Trek convention in full costume.

Yes. Very strong "weekly Euro board game night meet up" vibes from those two. 

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

I’ve always preferred loose-fitting garments. Anna might be the same. 

I think loose-fitting is different than "too big." I love loose fitting clothes - clothes that are the right size for my frame, but fit loosely. I am extremely uncomfortable when clothes are too big - when seams hit in awkward, uncomfortable places, when there's just too much fabric. You can have loose fitting but still have clothes that fit, if that makes sense? 

I think Sarah did a great job with the photography - glasses usually come with glare and reflections but she took care of it! And they took care to make sure that there wasn't trash in any of the shots that I could see. (I just did a quick once over.) 

[The Mother Dust]

12 hours ago, Florita said:

They look like a nerdy couple who would've had a Star Wars or Lord of the Rings theme wedding if it weren't for being fundies.

Yep....that one photo  someone posted a few thread pages back, of the bridal party walking in a line down the street, looked to me to be a great opportunity for one of those fun "bridal party chased by TRex" pictures.  But they can't have any fun ?. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by The Mother Dust

[Baxter]

I don't think it's a big deal that they wore their glasses. My husband wears glasses most of the time. We discussed whether he shld wear them for the wedding and he decided that he would rather wear contacts for it. We got married in Hawaii and he tends to wear his contacts on beach vacations as he finds it easier with sunglasses etc. I like how he looks with his glasses on too so if he had said he would rather wear them I would have had no problem with that. I love the way he looks either way.

I don't love Anna's dress. I don't like the style and I don't think it fits her very well. I'm not sure if covid played any part in that. But I hope that Anna loved it and felt beautiful in it. Every bride deserves that on her wedding day. 

As for the pictures, I think they are horrible. The lighting is bad and everyone looks awkward. I'm guessing Anna and Jesse are a little reserved and Christopher isn't good at putting people at ease. That's a skill a good wedding photographer should have. I always feel a bit awkward in pictures but our wedding photographer was great and put my husband and I at ease. I love my pictures. I doubt I will ever again look as good as I did in them. 

[zimona]

WTF. I cannot believe the amount of gender stereotypes I'm coming across here in the context of the wedding photos. 

Two guys doing man-buns? 'Manly' noses? She shouldn't wear glasses on her wedding day and esp not those 'masculine' ones? 

Honestly, I cannot imagine how you handle the cognitive dissonance that must come from snarking on fundies and their stereotypical gender roles, giant flower headbands on baby girls and at the same time reproducing clichés that are just as stereotypical... 

If anything I must give kudos to Anna that she has the spunk to express herself in a way that is somehow contrary to fundie mainstream and what is considered 'feminine' there. Fundie or not - her parents must have done something right I guess. 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by zimona
Typo

[Nothing if not critical]

57 minutes ago, zimona said:

thing I must give kudos to Anna that the has the spunk to express herself in a way that is somehow contrary to fundie mainstream and what is considered 'feminine' there

I completely agree. Did I somehow miss the memo that said that you can't wear glasses on your wedding day?

You guys would have been shocked to see my wedding pics, because I didn't wear a dress, we both wore our glasses (as did most of our attending family members), I didn't get my makeup done and I just wore my hair the way I usually do. My husband wore one of the suits he usually wore to work, and a cute tie. And looking back at those pics I love them, because it's clearly us. Yeah, they don't look perfect, but so what? We're imperfect and we love our little quirks and imperfections.

As for Anna, her dress is definitely not my style, but I personally think her glasses look cute and yes, a bit nerdy, and they suit her really well (and what on Earth are "masculine glasses" anyway???). 

 *end of rant* Apologies if I've offended anyone - just wanted to point out that your "perfect wedding" might not be everybody's idea of it. And I believe the stereotype that a woman can't be truly pretty when wearing glasses is actually really harmful.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Nothing if not critical

[byzant]

@zimona and @Nothing if not critical totally agree. I've worn glasses my whole life and love playing with different frames for different looks. I happen to think their heavy hipster frames are very cool and on trend at least in the UK!

 

Though apparently it's fine as I've "traditionally feminine features" what ever the fuck that means- from the comments here I take that to be a small Eurocentric nose and small boned features! 

 

Snark on their beliefs by all means, on her very clunky dress or his looking like a used car salesman in the photos not what nature gave them! 

[Bajovane]

10 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

It might be a local thing, but bodies lying in state in funeral homes on occasion are wearing the eyeglasses they wore in life. The deceased or their survivors apparently decided that was the way people would remember them, and how they looked in life.

(It just occurred to me that were my body to be laid out, my reading glasses could be perched atop my head and that’s how people would remember me in my natural state! Hm! Almost enough to make me change my mind about my arrangements. But enough of that jolly topic.)

So Anna and Jesse wearing their eyeglasses doesn’t faze me.  Well.... I *did* think, “Ooh, that couple are an optometrist’s dream! Two to one, all their kids will wear glasses, too!” 

Anna looks comfortable to me but that’s probably because the snapshots that were posted soon after the nuptials imprinted on my mind.  I haven’t studied Christopher’s photos because they are deadly dull.

I also think her dress looks fine. Some people enjoy clothes that fit loosely. Might have mentioned that I’ve lost about 60# and a couple of friends have fussed at me that I’m “not showing it off” because my 3-sizes-smaller clothes are still cargo pants, “pajama pants” and the occasional gored skirt. 

I’ve always preferred loose-fitting garments. Anna might be the same. 

Same.  I lost 130 pounds 16 years ago (gastric bypass) and have kept most of that off.  I definitely prefer loose fitting clothing because it's comfortable.  My mother used to nag me about it, telling me I no longer had the lumps and bumps to hide. That's fine, but clothes that actually fit feel tight to me. 

As for glasses, I had to wear mine when I had my wedding.  I am blind without them.  Contacts are out of the question. 

 I just recently had cataracts removed and I'm waiting for glasses that are on order. I see better than I did before,  but I still desperately need glasses. It's been a long two months without (and it was hell before the second eye was operated on!!). 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Bajovane
Added content

[FundMe]

9 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I think loose-fitting is different than "too big." I love loose fitting clothes - clothes that are the right size for my frame, but fit loosely. I am extremely uncomfortable when clothes are too big - when seams hit in awkward, uncomfortable places, when there's just too much fabric. You can have loose fitting but still have clothes that fit, if that makes sense? 

I

perfect sense! We recently went shopping for my daughters wedding dress. She wanted an empire waist because she hates to be constricted ; it actually causes her great anxiety.  Well....those are practically non-existent, and I thought we might be headed to custom made . But she had a knowledgeable sales lady who found several a -lines that were perfect,  but only because of the actual fit. Hard to explain. fits nicely up too but flows out around the waist.  Anyway, its perfect, she's gorgeous in it, and I cant wait for everyone to see it!

[Jana814]

I wear glasses. I have contacts but my eyes hurt the second I put them in. Also I don’t feel or look like myself when I wear my contacts but I do in glasses. 

[LilMissMetaphor]

1 hour ago, byzant said:

Snark on their beliefs by all means, on her very clunky dress or his looking like a used car salesman in the photos not what nature gave them! 

It's so weird to me how people still try to control what others snark about on FJ, and how it varies so wildly from thread to thread.  Do you even LOOK at some of the other threads? We snark on what nature gave people all the time.  AND their beliefs.  Sometimes it's hard to untangle the two, and rightfully so; an ugly mind makes an ugly body.  So why are there still pet couples on FJ? Why are Jesse and Anna a couple of cute, harmless geeky dorks that make us go awwww, don't be mean and mention her large nose? We go full-blast on Jill and David and Lawson and PP and Zsu  and Tom.  Why? Because they're gross human beings inside and out, right? 

Dang, I picked the wrong morning to stop putting sugar and cream in my coffee. 

[SassyPants]

20 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

It's so weird to me how people still try to control what others snark about on FJ, and how it varies so wildly from thread to thread.  Do you even LOOK at some of the other threads? We snark on what nature gave people all the time.  AND their beliefs.  Sometimes it's hard to untangle the two, and rightfully so; an ugly mind makes an ugly body.  So why are there still pet couples on FJ? Why are Jesse and Anna a couple of cute, harmless geeky dorks that make us go awwww, don't be mean and mention her large nose? We go full-blast on Jill and David and Lawson and PP and Zsu  and Tom.  Why? Because they're gross human beings inside and out, right? 

Dang, I picked the wrong morning to stop putting sugar and cream in my coffee. 

Couldn’t agree more. No one has a problem talking about ugly, fat Josh Duggar. And I get it, because for some, an ugly person inside makes snarking on physical features A-OK. This is a snark site and people will snark about different things.

OH, start the black coffee tomorrow.

[zimona]

28 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

It's so weird to me how people still try to control what others snark about on FJ, and how it varies so wildly from thread to thread.  Do you even LOOK at some of the other threads? We snark on what nature gave people all the time.  AND their beliefs.  Sometimes it's hard to untangle the two, and rightfully so; an ugly mind makes an ugly body.  So why are there still pet couples on FJ? Why are Jesse and Anna a couple of cute, harmless geeky dorks that make us go awwww, don't be mean and mention her large nose? We go full-blast on Jill and David and Lawson and PP and Zsu  and Tom.  Why? Because they're gross human beings inside and out, right? 

 

I have more of a problem with the double standards: snarking on fundies for their stereotypical gender roles and at the same time snarking on someone (fundy or not) b/c they won't fit those stereotypes for whatever reason... 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I will also there has been pushback on just mocking and name calling Josh Duggar and David Rodrigues for being overweight. There has been very visible re-direction to try to focus on horrible beliefs and behaviour of those two rather than their weight. 

[JanasTattooParlor]

22 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

Why are Jesse and Anna a couple of cute, harmless geeky dorks that make us go awwww, don't be mean and mention her large nose? We go full-blast on Jill and David and Lawson and PP and Zsu  and Tom.  Why? Because they're gross human beings inside and out, right?

The difference to me is that with Jill, they preach daily on their social media about Plexus and in her most recent screed, about how it’s bad to be fat, have blue hair, and have tattoos. It’s a hypocritical thing to say considering she does not keep her natural hair color like she seems to expect other women to do and her husband is overweight while her children are skin and bone. That’s definitely something to call them out for regularly because she takes every chance she gets to shill a diet MLM and brag about how her daughters are so trim while having a husband who is a clear testament that her pink drink doesn’t work and that her kids don’t get trim figures naturally. 
 

I’ve never seen anyone snark on Lawson’s looks that aren’t to say that he just looks like he’s full of himself, which he makes very clear from his posts. 
 

Zsu makes a point of tearing down people constantly and claims to be incredible healthy with her magic flour and I haven’t seen snark on her looks in a long time. The snark I’ve seen is about how they’ve handled their children’s scandal, they putting locks on their cabinets and fridge, and now their bitches home sale. 
 

Jesse and Anna are being defended because they aren’t out there preaching their beliefs. We know nothing about them outside of the fact that they were the first to move from Maxhell and from snippets of Sarah’s stilted writing on the blog. There’s nothing to snark on them for for their beliefs right now and wearing glasses on their wedding day is something they should damn well do because we snark on how these fundie girls get made up to look perfect for their days and it’s nice that she bucked that tradition and wore her glasses. I’m sure she probably got some pushback from it from family. Joy Forsyth and Jill Dillard wear glasses and neither of them wore theirs on their wedding day. It also hits home with many posters, me included, because we’ve worn glasses for most of our life and have been criticized for them at one point or another. Hell I’m getting married in less than two weeks and both my grandmothers and my stepmother have told me that I won’t look like a bride with my glasses on. No thought was given to the fact that I have never worn contacts and am legally blind without my glasses. No one would recognize me without my glasses either so of course I’m wearing them. Sure they could buy different glasses but she picked the ones she’s wearing so she obviously must like them. I mean if it makes you feel better to snark on her nose and glasses, you have the right to do that, but people also have the right to tell you that it’s rude and offensive to other people. 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

to stop putting sugar and cream in my coffee. 

I just started adding milk (low fat) and (coconut) sugar to my tea.  So good.  The coconut sugar is very lo-cal.  I tried Xylitol + monkfruit sweetener, but it just doesn't do the job. 

[Tatar-tot]

10 hours ago, Baxter said:

I don't think it's a big deal that they wore their glasses. My husband wears glasses most of the time. We discussed whether he shld wear them for the wedding and he decided that he would rather wear contacts for it. We got married in Hawaii and he tends to wear his contacts on beach vacations as he finds it easier with sunglasses etc. I like how he looks with his glasses on too so if he had said he would rather wear them I would have had no problem with that. I love the way he looks either way.

I don't love Anna's dress. I don't like the style and I don't think it fits her very well. I'm not sure if covid played any part in that. But I hope that Anna loved it and felt beautiful in it. Every bride deserves that on her wedding day. 

As for the pictures, I think they are horrible. The lighting is bad and everyone looks awkward. I'm guessing Anna and Jesse are a little reserved and Christopher isn't good at putting people at ease. That's a skill a good wedding photographer should have. I always feel a bit awkward in pictures but our wedding photographer was great and put my husband and I at ease. I love my pictures. I doubt I will ever again look as good as I did in them. 

They should have hired the Ardnts.  Despite all their weirdness they do great photography work. 

[Cults-r-us]

47 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I will also there has been pushback on just mocking and name calling Josh Duggar and David Rodrigues for being overweight. There has been very visible re-direction to try to focus on horrible beliefs and behaviour of those two rather than their weight. 

As well there should be. It devolves the site from snarking on beliefs to mean-girl pettiness.

23 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

They should have hired the Ardnts.  Despite all their weirdness they do great photography work. 

Plus change to a quad wedding where they take good pics + marry the Maxwell sisters.

[SassyPants]

52 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I will also there has been pushback on just mocking and name calling Josh Duggar and David Rodrigues for being overweight. There has been very visible re-direction to try to focus on horrible beliefs and behaviour of those two rather than their weight. 

Yes, I have tried redirection in a thread where people were being called out on speaking negatively on women’s physical characteristics, yet no one called out similar comments centered on men. It is a double standard.

[Lady Grass Lake]

13 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

What?!? You did not Read The Manual?!?!? All over the world, millions of technical writers are sobbing quietly over the futility of their vocation.  But yeah, the manuals for the three self-cleaning ovens I've owned have all said you have to take the racks out and clean them by hand. Like that isn't the hardest part of cleaning an oven! I do always clean the glass in the door by hand because it needs cleaning far more often than the oven itself.

Cleaning oven racks is easy.  Put the racks in a garbage bag big enought to hold them laying flat.  Pour in a couple cups of amonia and seal up the bag by tying it shut.  Let sit overnight.  Next day put in tub or take outside and spray off with a hose, all of the gunk is gone.  Works great on BBQ grills as well.  Avoid inhailing a lot of the fumes, that's why outside works better.  

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

It's so weird to me how people still try to control what others snark about on FJ, and how it varies so wildly from thread to thread.  Do you even LOOK at some of the other threads? We snark on what nature gave people all the time.  AND their beliefs.  Sometimes it's hard to untangle the two, and rightfully so; an ugly mind makes an ugly body.  So why are there still pet couples on FJ? Why are Jesse and Anna a couple of cute, harmless geeky dorks that make us go awwww, don't be mean and mention her large nose? We go full-blast on Jill and David and Lawson and PP and Zsu  and Tom.  Why? Because they're gross human beings inside and out, right? 

Dang, I picked the wrong morning to stop putting sugar and cream in my coffee. 

Rant / manifesto ahead.  

 

I got chided for referencing Jill & David Rodrigues’ fat fingers gripping their (probably overpriced) take-out coffee after having another date lunch while their children at home are stick-thin and probably not eating all that well, either in quantity nor quality.

Within minutes, the talk had turned to people who hate trans people as evidenced by references people made during the Obama administration to Mrs. O’s “man hands.”

Whether eyes were being sided at me or not, I apologized for hurting people’s feelings, assured the assembly that I have no problem with trans, and I might have mentioned that I had paid no attention to trash talk about Michele O and so had no knowledge of “man hands” as a pejorative. 

That used to be my custom. Apologize, explain, make nice. The more I think about it, NO. Not any more. Somebody seems to think I’m on the “eyeglass shame” trolley, I point out that my post was the exact opposite.  That’s all. 

I criticized the Rodrigues’ spawners’ obesity as resulting from their self-indulgence and neglect of their children’s welfare. I know this is not the topic where it happened, but henceforth: I’m not complaining nor apologizing when I feel I posted pretty darn clearly. I might clarify, but unless I go crazy and am vile, no apologies  

I personally refrain from mocking physical features a person can’t help - eg, Teri’s long face, Anna’s gummy smile.

But I reserve the right to  comment that for myself, given certain physical features, I’d present myself differently. I used to feel my face was too long and I wore my hair in a chin-length, stacked bob, rather than wear my hair long and emphasize its length.  Until I got my front teeth capped, I didn’t like my big smile and I adjusted my lips to my comfort. 

I also reserve the right to say that were I invited to suggest changes that someone could make, I’d suggest them. Teri embraces her appearance and so does Anna . Good for them! My opinion on how I’d style myself or them is not a slam on their worth, nor on anybody else.  Honestly!

Unless I really slip and post something that viciously ridicules a person for what they can’t help, I’m through apologizing for the way others might mis-understand me.

Clarify, maybe. Probably.  Apologize? Only if warranted. And I’m 99.99% sure nothing I post  will warrant an apology.  That’s not how I roll  

Sorry (!!) to post the MJB Manifesto here, but it had to go somewhere. FJ has been a positive and enjoyable part of my cyber life for well over a decade.  I count on it continuing. 

Thank you for your patience if you read this. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by MamaJunebug

[Lady Grass Lake]

2 hours ago, Bajovane said:

Same.  I lost 130 pounds 16 years ago (gastric bypass) and have kept most of that off.  I definitely prefer loose fitting clothing because it's comfortable.  My mother used to nag me about it, telling me I no longer had the lumps and bumps to hide. That's fine, but clothes that actually fit feel tight to me. 

As for glasses, I had to wear mine when I had my wedding.  I am blind without them.  Contacts are out of the question. 

 I just recently had cataracts removed and I'm waiting for glasses that are on order. I see better than I did before,  but I still desperately need glasses. It's been a long two months without (and it was hell before the second eye was operated on!!). 

Caract surgery with replacement lenses made my far vision 20/20 but I still needed help with reading, so my glasses are clear glass on top and blended bifocals for reading.  I decided to stay with glasses so I don't have to hunt for my reading glasses or wear them on an old lady librarian chain around my neck.   I also have a pair of Music glasses that are for reading music that is about 18 - 20 inches away from my eyes for seeing the score while playing my brass instrument with my head at an angle.  I would love contacts but they drive me crazy in my eyes.

 

[moreorlessnu]

5 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I didn't get my makeup done and I just wore my hair the way I usually do. 

The overall look would have been more flattering if Anna had worn her hair as she normally does. She and her MOH (sister?) wore their hair in an up do, I'm assuming, to differentiate themselves (needlessly) from the other members of the wedding party. The up do with straggly piece of hair came off as messy instead of sleek and attractive. A "totally different look" doesn't always come off well on one's wedding day.

1 hour ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I will also there has been pushback on just mocking and name calling Josh Duggar and David Rodrigues for being overweight. There has been very visible re-direction to try to focus on horrible beliefs and behaviour of those two rather than their weight. 

Interesting topic. In today's Boston Globe magazine (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/25/magazine/advice-when-making-fun-public-figures-crosses-line/), there's discussion about making fun of public figures' appearances. For those who cannot access the link:

Spoiler

I’m not a fan of our current leader, but lately I’ve been really bothered by friends' joking about his size, possible mental health issues and dementia, and physical challenges. I’m all for mocking his choices — the hairstyle, the tan, the shoe lifts — but mocking someone’s physical qualities and mental deterioration troubles me. These jokes disparage all people struggling with similar issues. How can I push back without alienating people I generally agree with?

E.H. / Somerville

Let me — like a good candidate for office — use your question as a jumping-off point to discuss a broader mandate! It’s a good season to review how we talk about public figures, especially politicians.

You’re on the right track with “criticize choices, not attributes.” Another key principle is “punch up, not down” — and while mocking the powerful is by definition “punching up,” you don’t want to cock your arm so far back that you elbow the person behind you in the face, you know? Tortured metaphor though it may be, this is what you’re talking about.

Making fun of other people’s bodies is bad, full stop. Even if the person whose body you are making fun of frequently does the same. It’s a mode of discourse that needs to be shut down, not engaged with.

The same goes for criticizing public figures in racist, sexist, ableist, or classist terms. Not for the sake of the politicians themselves, or for regularly scheduled maintenance of the high road, but because you have friends who belong to those groups. They are listening. It doesn’t matter how aligned you are politically, or that they hate Candidate X or Incumbent Y as passionately as you do. Call that politician “old fart” or “crazy witch” — you’ll be looked at differently.

This is where “it’s OK to criticize choices” doesn’t go far enough — it doesn’t address the language of the criticism, and it doesn’t acknowledge that not all choices get treated the same. The style choices of women and all people of color, including Indigenous people, in this country have been literally policed. There is a difference between criticizing a comb-over and criticizing braids, because historically and in the present, the consequences of wearing comb-overs and wearing braids have been very, very different. And it’s not only about race — I’ve met many people who would nod vigorously along with the last two sentences and then dismissively remark about people who went to state schools or haven’t traveled overseas.

When someone uses such language, it’s not always worth it to engage, but when you can, “It’s not the X that’s the problem — lots of good people (possibly including my friend or me) are X, too,” gets the message across.

Discussing a politician’s physical and mental health, though, is legitimate. Holding political office requires intellectual nimbleness, curiosity, empathy, self-control, and considerable physical and emotional energy. Talking about a politician’s apparent function in those domains is a judgment on job fitness, not on human worth or social acceptability.

 

[byzant]

2 hours ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

It's so weird to me how people still try to control what others snark about on FJ, and how it varies so wildly from thread to thread.  Do you even LOOK at some of the other threads? We snark on what nature gave people all the time.  AND their beliefs.  Sometimes it's hard to untangle the two, and rightfully so; an ugly mind makes an ugly body.  So why are there still pet couples on FJ? Why are Jesse and Anna a couple of cute, harmless geeky dorks that make us go awwww, don't be mean and mention her large nose? We go full-blast on Jill and David and Lawson and PP and Zsu  and Tom.  Why? Because they're gross human beings inside and out, right? 

Dang, I picked the wrong morning to stop putting sugar and cream in my coffee. 

not even slightly their beliefs are abhorent (as i explicitly stated) but the nasty comments on how  she looks like a man because she got a non northern  european/aryan looking nose and that glasses are ugly and people look sloppy or un elegantly dressed when wearing them  are both just shitty things to say_ im not saying people cant say them but they should expect to be told how shitty they are being to other glasses wearers/women with big noses who apparently look"manly???"

 

And when we dont challange those sort of statements are we saying because the bates girls are pretty their beliefs are less bad or their weddings are  better? 

Edited September 27, 2020 by byzant
Sp

[SassyPants]

24 minutes ago, byzant said:

not even slightly their beliefs are abhorent (as i explicitly stated) but the nasty comments on how  she looks like a man because she got a non northern  european/aryan looking nose and that glasses are ugly and people look sloppy or un elegantly dressed when wearing them  are both just shitty things to say_ im not saying people cant say them but they should expect to be told how shitty they are being to other glasses wearers/women with big noses who apparently look"manly???"

 

And when we dont challange those sort of statements are we saying because the bates girls are pretty their beliefs are less bad or their weddings are  better? 

Absolutely agree with you, and most people here will preface statements to include something about their horrid beliefs, but ITRW, many, many, many, if not most people, would allow beauty to somewhat mitigate Horrible beliefs. Unfortunately, we live in a shallow world.