Coronavirus 4

[Becky]

Aw, @clueliss, I am so very sorry to hear of your loss. Wishing you comfort. ❤️

[Coconut Flan]

Another reason to keep wearing masks - milder cases if people do get sick.

https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/masks-breathing-in-less-coronavirus-means-you-get-less-sick

[Ozlsn]

6 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I got an email yesterday that my gym is opening back up on September 1, with distancing and sanitizing procedures in place. I really, really want to go back

I am so sad - my gym sent an email to say they won't be reopening after lockdown finishes. I'm not totally surprised, and the owner is going to PT only for a bit so there is that option, but I'll miss seeing people there.

Our daily case numbers are still coming down, and there is a lot of discussion around how to reopen again, and what number of cases is tolerable - no one seriously believes elimination is feasible, especially as so many people have family overseas. Part of the problem is that we essentially have several different epidemics going on - aged care residents and patients is one, health care workers another, then you have differences related to SES and work. In short if you're a white collar worker who is working from home you are unlikely to be exposed; if you work in aged care you are at roughly 8 times the risk than the general public.  So there's a lot of work going on to try and control the infection in very high risk areas, and work out how much testing we need to be doing to prevent small clusters taking off again. Everyone wants schools to reopen, but safely - stage 4 lockdown finishes a week before the end of term 3, and who knows which schools or year levels (if any!) will go back for that week. I suspect year 11 and 12 will, as their exams start in term 4, so in person learning might help kids to work out what they didn't understand before then. (Also curious about how uni exams will work this year - they'll need to hire a lot more space to have everyone at socially distant spaces, and a lot of the venues were booked out 2-3 years in advance... although that probably has changed.)

[Becky]

1 hour ago, Ozlsn said:

...Part of the problem is that we essentially have several different epidemics going on - aged care residents and patients is one, health care workers another, then you have differences related to SES and work. In short if you're a white collar worker who is working from home you are unlikely to be exposed; if you work in aged care you are at roughly 8 times the risk than the general public.  So there's a lot of work going on to try and control the infection in very high risk areas, and work out how much testing we need to be doing to prevent small clusters taking off again. ...

This breakdown of risk is something that is missing in the US stats as they are presented to the public.  However, given that yahoos already refuse to mask up or otherwise mitigate risk to themselves or others, if it became public that the average citizen working from home is at less risk than, say, an orderly in a nursing care home, we'd have even more people engaging in riskier behavior, so I guess I can't blame officials for keeping that to themselves.

So far, I know have personal knowledge of 3 deaths, all very elderly, in their 80s or 90s; I know 2 others who were infected - also elderly folks in their 80s.

[Ozlsn]

31 minutes ago, Becky said:

This breakdown of risk is something that is missing in the US stats as they are presented to the public. 

It's been an interesting topic here - the increase in risk to aged care workers being so much higher than that to healthcare workers was a surprise. A lot of it is so we can manage risk going forward - which occupations are at higher risk and why, how to we lower that risk and protect vulnerable people, how do we stop community transmission becoming widespread etc. We do have some level of "why are we still locked down, it's a conspiracy/fascism/a failure of government/Bill Gates's fault" people, and a lot of people are very understandably concerned about the economic impact. Generally though people mostly want things to be controlled so that at the least we can have a semi-normal Christmas/New Year period. And hopefully schools can go back in term 4, without the risk of new clusters and without having to shutdown again randomly.

[GreyhoundFan]

This is insane:

[Alisamer]

43 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

This is insane:

I'd hope even the most clueless of people would stop for a second and think "wait a minute... wasn't it plenty deadly for HIM?"

But my faith in humanity is fading by the day. People are so, so willfully, aggressively stupid.

[Dandruff]

22 hours ago, Becky said:

So far, I know have personal knowledge of 3 deaths, all very elderly, in their 80s or 90s; I know 2 others who were infected - also elderly folks in their 80s.

I have three elderly relatives who had considered moving to assisted living before the pandemic and decided against it.  I'm glad, because I figure they'd all probably be dead now if they had.  None of them regret staying home, either.

[47of74]

49 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I have three elderly relatives who had considered moving to assisted living before the pandemic and decided against it.  I'm glad, because I figure they'd all probably be dead now if they had.  None of them regret staying home, either.

Yeah I think both of my grandparents would have stayed home then.  Probably would've given the better to die at home than at a cold assisted living center argument.  When my grandparents moved Grandma was on board but Grandpa wasn't.  They probably would have both said no way in fucking hell if they were with us now.  And all us grandchildren would have helped to keep them at home, myself included. 

[OHFL2009]

14 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I have three elderly relatives who had considered moving to assisted living before the pandemic and decided against it.  I'm glad, because I figure they'd all probably be dead now if they had.  None of them regret staying home, either.

I wish my grandfather hadn't moved into a retirement community last year. While they've impressively had 0 cases among residents or staff, it's so hard to watch from a distance as he is falling into a deep depression from the isolation. If he were still in his house, he could at least work in the garden, do projects in his woodshop, we could've come and sat at the end of the driveway to chat, etc. As it is, he's been basically shut in his apartment since March. Dinner gets delivered to his door, and he's allowed out for a short walk outside alone, but he has basically no personal interaction and nothing to do but sit and watch tv or read a book. We talk to him on the phone, but he's not great with technology so something like Zoom isn't an option. 

[Becky]

1 hour ago, OHFL2009 said:

I wish my grandfather hadn't moved into a retirement community last year. While they've impressively had 0 cases among residents or staff, it's so hard to watch from a distance as he is falling into a deep depression from the isolation. If he were still in his house, he could at least work in the garden, do projects in his woodshop, we could've come and sat at the end of the driveway to chat, etc. As it is, he's been basically shut in his apartment since March. Dinner gets delivered to his door, and he's allowed out for a short walk outside alone, but he has basically no personal interaction and nothing to do but sit and watch tv or read a book. We talk to him on the phone, but he's not great with technology so something like Zoom isn't an option. 

There is no “hug” reaction so I just gave you “love.” I am so sad for him, and for you and his loved ones. This whole mess is just so hard. Does he have access to a window or door you could sit on opposite sides and chat by phone?

[OHFL2009]

2 hours ago, Becky said:

There is no “hug” reaction so I just gave you “love.” I am so sad for him, and for you and his loved ones. This whole mess is just so hard. Does he have access to a window or door you could sit on opposite sides and chat by phone?

Unfortunately his apartment looks out over a pond, which is lovely to look at but doesn't leave much access to go near the windows. Alligators make it inadvisable to stand on the pond bank. My parents and I take turns dropping off groceries for him, but it's essentially dropping the bag at the front door of the building and saying hi at a distance. I think he really misses feeling like he's part of the world. And I can only imagine the people in his building who don't have family nearby or don't use a cell phone. They must be even more isolated. I know they are doing it to keep everyone safe, but it must feel so cruel to be so alone.

[Ozlsn]

We are apparently going to get an announcement tomorrow of how the staged  return to a lower level of lock down will hopefully look. Naturally there are anti-lockdown protests today, because some people are fuckwits. I am so tired of people, which is mildly amusing given I haven't really seen anyone other than my immediate family that I live with and supermarket/pharmacy/bakery staff in person for about 6 weeks. 

We had 76 new cases today, 11 deaths - the deaths run 2-3 weeks behind the case numbers, so still coming down. I do get where the protests are coming from, but could we just get the numbers - particularly the unknown source numbers - down first? 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Ozlsn

[SassyPants]

On 9/2/2020 at 10:53 AM, OHFL2009 said:

Unfortunately his apartment looks out over a pond, which is lovely to look at but doesn't leave much access to go near the windows. Alligators make it inadvisable to stand on the pond bank. My parents and I take turns dropping off groceries for him, but it's essentially dropping the bag at the front door of the building and saying hi at a distance. I think he really misses feeling like he's part of the world. And I can only imagine the people in his building who don't have family nearby or don't use a cell phone. They must be even more isolated. I know they are doing it to keep everyone safe, but it must feel so cruel to be so alone.

A lady from my church recently relocated to our area (right before Covid). Her daughters are local and she lives in a retirement facility. She literally is in lock down and his been since March. The residents are locked in their rooms and get their meals delivered. I think I’d give up my spot and leave. This lady is in her 80s but totally independent. She drives and is a former physician, so educated and bright. My heart breaks for her and all others in her situation.

[CTRLZero]

Thanks to all who responded regarding dental practices in time of Covid-19.  Here is how my visit went:

Dentist texted:  "Please call from the parking lot.  We will let you know when to enter building."

I was the only one in waiting area.  Mask required.  Filled out paperwork specifying their liability with Covid-19, plus saying they would not treat if I had traveled by air in past two weeks.

They took my temperature.

Swished with hydrogen peroxide (I think).  It was explained that would reduce any toxic aerosolized stuff from my mouth. 

We watched the Andromeda Strain last night.  Hygienist and dentist wore similar hazmat suits.    (Kidding, mostly.  They did wear wrap-around shields.)

They do not polish teeth during Covid-19.  Apparently that sprays out too much into the air.

I'm good for another six months before another checkup/cleaning.  Whew!  I do need more work done, which would mean a series of about five visits, but I'm going to postpone that as long as possible, hoping for a vaccine or magical disappearance of the virus. 

[mamallama]

Good to know about the cleaning.  That was one of my biggest concerns.

[nokidsmom]

16 hours ago, SassyPants said:

A lady from my church recently relocated to our area (right before Covid). Her daughters are local and she lives in a retirement facility. She literally is in lock down and his been since March. The residents are locked in their rooms and get their meals delivered. I think I’d give up my spot and leave. This lady is in her 80s but totally independent. She drives and is a former physician, so educated and bright. My heart breaks for her and all others in her situation.

I am in regular contact with my 94 yo aunt who lives in assisted living community nearby.   Before Covid I would visit her but she has been on lockdown since March.   Meals get now get delivered instead of going to the dining room.    She gets some groceries delivered from friends who leave it at the entry.   She gets out and walks around within the grounds but after seeing the same landscape day after day, she's over it.  She told me she feels like a prisoner.  I would go there but at 94 she's in the high risk group and at my age, so am I.

 

[Ozlsn]

I really feel for the people in hard lockdown in aged care facilities - I really hope they can find ways to keep risk low but allow some more social interaction.  Zoom is doable for meetings, but not very good for social interactions of more than two people. There is discussion of how to manage "bubbles" here - essentially keeping contact to a very small number of defined people - but haven't seen details of how care facilities would manage it.

[Coconut Flan]

Where my mother is they do it by sections.  She's in memory care and they are a bubble.  The residents have the freedom of that unit unless they've been out of the facility.  When that happens they've been doing a 14 day in room quarantine.  That's hard on the residents so they've recently ordered a rapid test set up.  That should reduce the quarantine time plus they'll be testing staff.  They've so far had no cases, but they're very strict on who is allowed inside.

I can visit with my mother outside with masks on everyone and staying six feet away for 30 to 45 minutes at a time.  That's as long as she'll last.  

[Ozlsn]

A study out of Iceland appears to show lasting immunity from coronavirus infection. 

Obviously this is promising in terms of being able to induce protective immunity with vaccines, and also lowers the chances of reinfection. Obviously we're not even a year into this, so more data will be needed.

Vitamin D therapy can reduce the severity of illness in patients and lower mortality rates.

Which is good news and another form of treatment is always good. It was a pilot RCT with small numbers (76 patients), and the patients were hospitalised, so no data on prevention (but can't hurt to take vitamin D just in case!) Also the drug combination they were using as routine therapy was interesting, in that they don't seem to have given steroids (although that might only be once they hit ICU).  

Pregnant women may be at higher risk of severe disease with covid-19.

Similar to influenza from what I've heard, although not enough data as to whether specific populations are at differing risk levels (I'm thinking immunotype populations here btw, which is one of the factors in influenza). So far infection does not appear to affect the baby unless they have to deliver prematurely (although it'll be at least 2 years before there is emerging information on whether treatment and/or severity of disease had an impact). 

The University of Queensland vaccine is showing promise. If the phase 1 trials are successful then phase 2/3 trials will start late this year, with CSL having just signed an agreement with UQ and to run those trials and manufacture the vaccine. They've also signed with Astra Zeneca to produce the Oxford vaccine in Australia. I am all in favour of multiple available vaccines, as soon as possible after adequate and rigorous testing.

[47of74]

No shit

Quote

Anyone with a brain could tell that putting on the gigantic Sturgis Motorcycle Rally this year would be a bad idea. Now we have a scientific study to affirm this was a worst-case scenario, an event that appears to be accountable for 250,000 cases of COVID-19 at a public cost of $12 billion.

Now, anyone with a bit of sense knew this was going to happen. What’s new is that the report gives us a sense of just how bad this really was. According to the study, Sturgis accounted for a 35 percent increase in cases in South Dakota, and raised rates significantly in every county that visitors returned to. Enough that for the month in which Sturgis took place, the rally was responsible for a fifth of the cases in the entire country:

 

[AmazonGrace]

Stupid is as stupid does.

[nokidsmom]

23 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

No shit

Quote

Anyone with a brain could tell that putting on the gigantic Sturgis Motorcycle Rally this year would be a bad idea. Now we have a scientific study to affirm this was a worst-case scenario, an event that appears to be accountable for 250,000 cases of COVID-19 at a public cost of $12 billion.

 

I read the most of the town residents did not want the rally to go forward because of Covid.   The town went ahead anyway and the reason they gave was that people would show up anyway so they might as well be prepared.   While I think there's some truth in that,  given that the rally brings in most of the revenue that businesses make for the year, it just sounds to me like they couldn't say no to the money.  

Edited September 8, 2020 by nokidsmom
fix quote

[AmazonGrace]

I can understand the town businesses wanting it but how the hell did any of the bikers think that it would be a good idea to attend right now?

[nokidsmom]

9 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

I can understand the town businesses wanting it but how the hell did any of the bikers think that it would be a good idea to attend right now?

Having known a couple of bikers and how much they enjoy their rides, I can understand it's tough to take a pass on something they look forward to but wouldn't wanting to live to ride another day be a consideration? 

Still not the smartest decision to attend IMHO.

Edited September 8, 2020 by nokidsmom
Addition