Bontragers/Bowers 6: Allison Is Married! Who Will Date Her Brothers Now?

[Marionette]

9 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

I don't get it. Just buy a longer dress/skirt. If you see a dress you like and it's too short, then find another one. People do it every single day and despite fundie whining that there are no "modest" dresses, that's bullshit. There are dresses of every shape, size, length, style and more available everywhere. 

I was looking for some very specific things for a dress for a wedding. Even in the time of COVID and dressing rooms not being open, I ordered four dresses online and ended up keeping one. 

Same with the strapless wedding dresses they modify with ugly sleeves/bodices. There are thousands of options out there - you don't need to freaking do that. 

Personally, I think it's intentional on their part. "Look at me and how super modest I am. I am better than you because I'm not a hussie and cover my knees/collarbone/cleavage". 

I agree. I think it aids their “persecution complex” by them looking at the world of fashion as “against” them/modesty. 

[Melissa1977]

15 hours ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

And ugh the skirt extenders being used just look so horrible. It would be one thing if they matched, but again: they just look like a wardrobe malfunction where a slip is showing that shouldn't be. I feel like the extender makes the skirt MORE revealing. I feel worse for Allison by the day, a lifetime of waiting only to get a dud.

Absolutely. When my grandma was young, women wore "underskirts" (I don't know the English term, but a very light skirt under the skirt). Usually they had lace. Well, it was immodest to show that! If fact, those who showed in purpose, were... you know... "that kind of girls". It was the 40s and 50s, anyway.

I know clothes are cultural and different countries and different ages cannot be compared.

If I was BEC I would say skirt extenders are ugly. If I was compassionated I would say Allison is trying hard to fit in her new family and I'm sure she's working hard for her marriage to work. I bet Jeremiah does not care about her dresses at all.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m surprised anyone “needs” a skirt extender in 2020. There are so many cheap and modest options online and in stores these days. If you just look at Target’s clothing section, you’ll see that long sleeved dresses past the knee are plentiful. Plus amazon carries about a million different skirts and dresses that go past the knee. Sure 10 years ago there were fewer choices and a skirt extender might be needed here and there. I can’t help but think that a fundie maiden with a skirt extender is pulling a Jill Rod and wants everyone to notice how modest she is by being completely immodest. 

ETA: a picture from Target. These are perfect for fundies. And there are tons of different inexpensive choices. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[wendy-sparkles]

I agree it might just be her wanting to fit in with his family. Really appreciated his wide stance though, I feel like we haven't see one in a while.

[byzant]

Totally agree a midi length has been popular and trendy here for years! And maxi skirts  /dresses as well. So the only reason to show your slip  is to be obvious about how holy modest you are! @Melissa1977 totally agree my great grandmother would be very scathing about women who let their slips show! 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by byzant

[FiveAcres]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

Absolutely. When my grandma was young, women wore "underskirts" (I don't know the English term, but a very light skirt under the skirt). Usually they had lace. Well, it was immodest to show that! If fact, those who showed in purpose, were... you know... "that kind of girls". It was the 40s and 50s, anyway.

 

In the English I grew up speaking, we used to call a light skirt that went under a dress or skirt a "slip" (for a dress) or a "half slip" (for a skirt.) They were generally made out of a slippery fabric so that the skirt would not stick to the legs or hose. A slip that went under a fuller skirt to provide some extra fullness to the skirt was sometimes called a petticoat. There was also an undergarment with a wired bottom that was designed to hold out a skirt of a wedding gown or formal gown. This was called a crinoline. I actually had one for a while while I was part of a historical recreationist group to hold out the skirt of my Tudor gown. The really hardcore recreationists made their underclothes the same way the Tudors would have done, but that was too much work for me. I did have a reasonably accurate Tudor corset, but that was because an expert helped me draft and fit the pattern. 

And I agree with you. When I was young, showing any of these undergarments was decidedly NOT considered modest. 

[Kylolo]

3 hours ago, fundiefan said:

I don't get it. Just buy a longer dress/skirt. If you see a dress you like and it's too short, then find another one. People do it every single day and despite fundie whining that there are no "modest" dresses, that's bullshit. There are dresses of every shape, size, length, style and more available everywhere.

Amen! 

I’m far from fundie but typically dress (aside from shorts and pants) in ways completely acceptable to fundies. My dresses are nearly all knee covering (shortest are at top of knee cap), sleeveless dresses are always worn with cardigans, and I never show cleavage at work. The latter is incredibly difficult given that I’m sub-5’ tall and have a 34H chest, but it can be done. V neck tees from Kohl’s don’t show my cleavage and I love them  

My 6’ tall friend also manages to have fundy-acceptable length dresses, and women at that height actually have some legit reason to complain about finding the right skirt length. 

As others have said it is obvious to anyone who’s shopped for dresses recently that they complain to draw attention to being “special.” It’s part of the persecution complex. 

[HereticHick]

As far as  I can tell, Allison's pale pink dress covered the knees even without the extender. Uggh. I agree that it looks like a major wardrobe malfunction (although I'm happy that I've mothballed the slips that I wore religiously with skirts/dresses in the 80s and 90s!)

We know that the Bontragers like to thrift and know how to sew, so there is no reason why Allison can't buy maxi dresses/skirts and hem them up a little.  I agree that they wear holier-than-thou skirt extenders to show how pious they are.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I swear either Michelle or Anna Duggar wore the same pink dress Allison was wearing in the skirt extender photo. Does anybody remember?

[GoddessOfVictory]

A quick scroll through her Instagram shows me she's worn same-length or shorter dresses/skirts without an extender in the past, even in pictures during her recent engaged season of life. I agree she's either trying to fit in with her new family and/or it is something Jeremiah requested.

The skirt extender, in my eyes, is just long enough to not seem like "oh no! her slip is showing" but it still looks kind of...odd? Especially with that pink dress.

I don't know much about the Helferich family but color me shocked that Chelsy married a Maxwell and still manages to have more freedom in clothing choices than Allison appears to have. (Granted, for all I know, Allison could be hanging out in jeans every day that she's not dressing up for a wedding but I doubt it.)

[Melissa1977]

34 minutes ago, GoddessOfVictory said:

don't know much about the Helferich family but color me shocked that Chelsy married a Maxwell and still manages to have more freedom in clothing choices than Allison appears to have

While I can't stand Chelsy and John for how they train poor Axton, they have good things on their side. One of these is that they act as a team. Chelsy has been very explicit on how they travelled, enjoy themselves, did projects together and both of them taking decisions. Not a boss and a helpmeet, but a couple.  Chelsy seemed proud of being a team, what was refreshing because Bontragers are the "workshipping the husband" cult. 

[Tenyari]

What's funny, just the other day I was looking at a similar dress for myself, which had lace on the bottom (I assume this is the look Allison was going for with the extender) and decided against buying it because it looked weird to me, and that's on a dress that was intentionally made to look like that. On the dress she wore, it looks even weirder. Like other users said before, if you want a longer dress, then buy a longer dress. Her outfit wasn't anything groundbreaking, similar to almost identical dresses can be easily find at other places in lengths more appropriate to her (read: her hubby). Same with shirts with cleavages that I've seen the Duggarlettes and Rodriguii wear - you wouldn't have to wear modesty undershirts if you bought already modest (and usually less ugly looking than some random undershirts underneath them) shirts to begin with. I'll never understand the trend into turning regular clothes modest when there's plenty of affordable modest options to begin with.

[HereticHick]

@Tenyari Agreed.  Maybe with black shoes & jewelry, the lace on that dress would look more intentional.

[anachronistic]

I am a fat lesbian who loves dresses and skirts and would happily wear them year round except that they aren’t really practical in cooler weather. (I am pretty sure that I have the taste of a 1850s prairie housewife, except I would never wear corsets, or marry a man. But if petticoats were in style I’d totally wear them.) Anyway. I think of slips as being for modesty and petticoats being for warmth, and skirt extenders just look like your slip is showing, which is underwear, and so not modest at all.  trim should go on top of stuff, not below, for that reason. 
 

Do fundie girls judge other fundie girls on their modesty level? It never occurs to me to judge what someone else is wearing, and I am so not a visual person that I don’t really notice what anyone else is wearing, unless they are kids I’m taking care of. And with little kids it’s more like ‘wait, you aren’t wearing your diaper? That is not okay, you aren’t potty trained’ and ‘why are you wet? You should be dry. Let’s remedy that.’ 
 

Unrelated, the ability of small children to make a tablespoon of water on the floor cover their entire body and drench their clothes will never cease to amaze me.

[JermajestyDuggar]

25 minutes ago, anachronistic said:

Do fundie girls judge other fundie girls on their modesty level? It never occurs to me to judge what someone else is wearing, and I am so not a visual person that I don’t really notice what anyone else is wearing, unless they are kids I’m taking care of. 

I’m sure some do more than others. I wouldn’t be surprised if Allison silently judged other fundie girls for the way they dress. I don’t notice what other people are wearing for the most part. But the other day, my husband and I were driving and saw a woman walking wearing an orange sequin jumpsuit. And I told my husband that I love her confidence. I love seeing people wear things that aren’t standard run of the mill clothing. Fundies think they dress so different from the mainstream, but I swear they all dress so similar to eachother that it’s boring as hell. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[FiveAcres]

35 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m sure some do more than others. I wouldn’t be surprised if Allison silently judged other fundie girls for the way they dress. I don’t notice what other people are wearing for the most part. But the other day, my husband and I were driving and saw a woman walking wearing an orange sequin jumpsuit. And I told my husband that I love her confidence. I love seeing people wear things that aren’t standard run of the mill clothing. Fundies think they dress so different from the mainstream, but I swear they all dress so similar to eachother that it’s boring as hell. 

Yes! When I see a woman my age wearing something unusual I am trying to train myself to think "you go girl" rather then clutch at my (non-existent) pearls. At this point in my life, my choice of attire is governed more by "will I scare small children if they see me" than anything else. 

[BirdgirlH]

I was going to dig up some links to support some of the things I wanted to address ... - like, I've seen Allison wear an extender before (a while ago), and Denver isn't* actually as reserved as someone upthread mentioned (*no personal observation - I just read their blog as a study of christian fundamentalism ? and they've always talked about how much of a clown, people-person and life of the party he is) but that's not what makes this such an interesting family to watch! They have some good qualities (hard-working, they love each other, and can we acknowledge their amazing cooking skills haha) and the girls sometimes/often/every so often come across as likeable, like their sister roadtrips, their obvious love for their cousins and other extended family, their (non-religious) soul-searching  - for me, the interesting thing is the study in contrasts! For example - they've done a lot of prison ministry - clearly they're not superficial people! They've written about the importance of working to support yourself (as a female) and knowing how to cook, scrub toilets etc. (as a male), but then there's the posts about (not) squelching your brother's manhood - is it the same post where Allison decides not to say anything when her newly licensed brother drives far too fast? There's Chelsy taking great pains not to seem like a feminist (in a post where she's quoting feminist sentiments), there's all the baby-gushing, and simultaneously the Bontrager Bros taking their picture with Michael Pearl, and Chelsy wondering why her little son won't do an instagram-worthy cake-smash after she's TRAINED him not to touch his food - there's all the talk about surrendering and meekness, surrounding the women retreats Allison used to hold, and yet she herself managed the family hotel and even lived there for a while, lived in Mexico for a bit, and Chelsy has always come across as very self-assured and business-savvy. I think this is the fascination I have with them - they hold such horrid beliefs, have such random modesty 'convictions', seem to be warm and social otherwise - how in the world did they turn into these exact people? - well I know it was a while ago (15 years?) when somehow Marlin had a "turning heart" and wanted to focus on his family, and from then on it was skirts only for the girls, and lots more gender-specific roles.

I don't really know where I'm going with this post, but I guess the reason I'm fascinated with the Bontragers is that they're very open on their blog, unashamedly, and while some of it is likeable, a lot of it is ... well, fundamentalist and really awful, and I'm fascinated by the paradox!

 

[ophelia]

5 hours ago, BirdgirlH said:

I don't really know where I'm going with this post, but I guess the reason I'm fascinated with the Bontragers is that they're very open on their blog, unashamedly, and while some of it is likeable, a lot of it is ... well, fundamentalist and really awful, and I'm fascinated by the paradox!

I totally feel you! I'm fascinated by the great variety of people that come together on their family reunions. From old fashioned mennonite, to fundie baptists, to people who seem quite normal and mainstream (and from their SM accounts) even likable. 

[Melissa1977]

6 hours ago, BirdgirlH said:

seem to be warm

Wow, I have the opposite feeling. I find Marlin scaring and his wife is hard AF and very open about their extreme views in childbearing.

Many fundie families look warm and happy. Once you've beaten and brainwashed the kids for years they become smiley and well behaved for sure. Add nice clothes and stunning countryside views and violà, the paradise. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I've known a few fundies in real life like this. There's at least one family I know where they come off warm and charming, and many people seem to think they're the perfect family. However if you get them talking about the right subjects, you see their true beliefs. 

As for the Bontragers, Allison's wedding made them look a less warm imo. 

[Angelface]

3 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I've known a few fundies in real life like this. There's at least one family I know where they come off warm and charming, and many people seem to think they're the perfect family. However if you get them talking about the right subjects, you see their true beliefs. 

As for the Bontragers, Allison's wedding made them look a less warm imo. 

If my (now blessedly “ late “) father-in-law had given a sermon at my wedding even half as dreadful as the diatribe at Allison’s I’d have whacked him with my fairly substantial bouquet!!

[SPHASH]

Family camp pics are up on the blog.  No masks, no social distancing at all.  Rebecca is even holding a non relative toddler.  And check out this gem, they are good at lying by ommission just like their in laws the Maxwells.

At homeschool family camp, we value families of all sizes in all stages of life. This includes everyone from newborn babies to grandparents and every stage in between. This year, we even had a couple that had been married for only three weeks! 

I'm pretty sure the newlyweds were Allison and Jeremiah.  Sorry family doesn't count.

Edited September 29, 2020 by SPHASH
ETA

[fundiefan]

These "camps" are really just shows. "Let's show the world what great Christians we are and how much fun it is to have narrow, hateful views that we hide behind bible verses". 

Whether "family camp" or manly man weekend or Allison's former girl's retreats - all excuses and all complete and utter wastes. It's not like they're out there "saving" people or anything like that. They're insular parties so they can all pat themselves and each other on the back for following the right rules for their right god. 

With a bit of mating ritual tied up into it, no doubt. 

In the picture with Allison & Jeremy (or "the couple married only three weeks"), you can see there is a bit of black slip/extension/fabric/modesty announcement at the bottom of her denim skirt. Even though she has leggings on under the skirt. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by fundiefan

[HereticHick]

1 minute ago, fundiefan said:

Whether "family camp" or manly man weekend or Allison's former girl's retreats - all excuses and all complete and utter wastes. It's not like they're out there "saving" people or anything like that. They're insular parties so they can all pat themselves and each other on the back for following the right rules for their right god. 

With a bit of mating ritual tied up into it, no doubt. 

I don't even understand why they bother with the sermons and lessons at these things. They're all fundies already and just preaching at each other. No one is getting saved again. Why not just play sports and eat and have bluegrass jam sessions and let the GYM and maidens court each other? Do silly skits if you want.

My family went to a "family camp" last month at a summer camp many of us went to as kids. It was great! We just had (outside, social distanced) happy hour for the adults every evening instead of sermons.

[fundiefan]

Just now, HereticHick said:

I don't even understand why they bother with the sermons and lessons at these things. They're all fundies already and just preaching at each other. No one is getting saved again. Why not just play sports and eat and have bluegrass jam sessions and let the GYM and maidens court each other? Do silly skits if you want.

My family went to a "family camp" last month at a summer camp many of us went to as kids. It was great! We just had (outside, social distanced) happy hour for the adults every evening instead of sermons.

When my nieces & nephews & cousin's kids were little, we had "family camp" for a week every summer. At a resort on a lake in Northern WI. We rented 4 or 5 cabins for the week. The kids ran and swam and played & did everything else kids do. We were out on the boat and tubing and jet-ski's. Every night we had dinner together with everyone making something, and we rotated by cabin who made the "main" part of a meal. Then we either sat at the fire pit all night or hung out in the bar. The bar has an addition off to the side that is a game room - us adults were in the bar, the kids in the game room. Sometimes, we even did things inside the bar (once, we did a "jug band" thing with everyone - like 30 of us).

Many years later when the kids were grown, we went back again after 7 away. It was an Olympic year and we did our own Olympics with the "kids" (they called themselves the "90's babies") vs adults and our events were cornhole, shuffleboard, darts, pool, giant Jenga...and others I can't remember. Two or three events each night. 

Damn, those were good times. 

I guess you could say we did family camp too. Only I bet we, and the kids, had way more fun. No sermons or lectures. No mating rituals. No egotistical man children taking the microphone and telling us all how to live and how awful the world is (an not political BS from Marlin, which you know the family campers all got).