Seewalds 44: Skip the Ads and Jessa Won’t Get Paid!

[mpheels]

@FreeTheScapegoats - that makes sense, except I would flip the order for learning about Calvinism and meeting Ben. Ben and Jessa’s courtship had all the trappings of two teenagers who had the hots for each other. Combined with Jessa’s determination/stubbornness, and they were getting married regardless of theology. I can imagine Ben talking through some of the differences between the beliefs they were raised with, and Jessa find some comfort with respect to how Josh’s transgressions were handled.

[SassyPants]

25 minutes ago, FreeTheScapegoats said:

Jessa may not be an intellectually curious person per se. She was, however, a child who was molested by her older brother and told to forgive him. She was also told he and her were just the same- sinners in need of a savior. Then came the extra responsibilities, but the gist is there. Deep down, she probably wanted to understand why. And there comes Calvinism and its total depravity, giving her a good enough answer. Then, along came Ben, who was into that as well. So she married him and had children with him. Now she’ll just double down because that is easier than to reassess her worldview and understand her parents failed her, while inflicting generational trauma in her kids in the process. She might even see her sons as capable of doing what Josh did, because of her awful beliefs. She can already look at them and see them as sinners.

Absolutely. It’s always a default to what is easiest, and likely because there are limited critical thinking and idea formation skills in play. All of those necessary skills were drummed out of these kids, or more likely curtailed. This could have also contributed to Josh’s acting out.

[princessmahina]

I have a little boy who was born during last years Duggar bow-pocalypse and I can’t imagine looking at his sweet little face and envisioning a future molester. 

[bal maiden]

On 8/24/2020 at 5:09 PM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Anyone wanna ask Jessa, why she thinks the unborn are pure and innocent but babies are sinners? 

It's because they touched a vAgiNa on the way out of the womb, and they're not married yet. Little sinners! Maybe c-section babies aren't sinners?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, bal maiden said:

It's because they touched a vAgiNa on the way out of the womb, and they're not married yet. Little sinners! Maybe c-section babies aren't sinners?

What about girls? Oh, wait, that would make them lesbians. NVM.

[AprilQuilt]

17 hours ago, mpheels said:

@FreeTheScapegoats - that makes sense, except I would flip the order for learning about Calvinism and meeting Ben. Ben and Jessa’s courtship had all the trappings of two teenagers who had the hots for each other. Combined with Jessa’s determination/stubbornness, and they were getting married regardless of theology. I can imagine Ben talking through some of the differences between the beliefs they were raised with, and Jessa find some comfort with respect to how Josh’s transgressions were handled.

yes. I think Ben and Jessa wanted to bone for sure, but Ben also brought a keener interest in theology and specifically what role religion would play in their lives, and how much space it would take up. With a different man, I think faith might have been a bit more of a background-noise for Jessa. I think she'd have been fundie for sure, but in an unreflective way - the way I imagine Joy or Joe probably are.

I don't think Jessa's stupid. I find her generally to be purposeful and at least outwardly confident in her behaviour, and she has now brought that to bear in her religious practice. Ben's influence has made her double down on the foundations her upbringing already instilled in her - despite regurgitating a lot of stuff she probably learned rote as a kid, she does also have a level of intellectual engagement with it all. I suspect that at points in her childhood and beyond she really has felt huge shame and disgust at herself, and the avenue she has found to ameliorate that is her faith. Some people grow up and turn away from what they were brought up with: Jessa has done the opposite, embracing it wholeheartedly and locating her sense of self-worth, indentity and purpose within it. Faith works for Jessa, it makes the world navigable for her and actually furthermore she profits from it socially and financially.

I think in another reality she could do really well in the secular world. She is attractive, likely more intelligent than many of her sisters, quite hard-nosed, and if she had been born to a different kind of family, a lot of her faults... just wouldn't be faults. I could actually see her doing well in the corporate world, she would ace a grad scheme for sure.

I don't mean any of this as leg-humping, I just find the range of personalities among the Duggar kids to be really interesting. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Because it's unlikely any of the Duggars (except maybe Jill) will ever pursue anything beyond their family, it's easy to imagine their wasted potential.  As so many have said before me, there's nothing wrong with being a stay at home mother or working at a car lot or as a handyman, but when those are literally all your choices it's just so sad.  You can't expect me to believe that out of 9 girls, nobody ever wants to be anything else and out of 10 boys nobody worries about being the sole breadwinner.

[baldricks_turnip]

7 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

I don't think Jessa's stupid. I find her generally to be purposeful and at least outwardly confident in her behaviour, and she has now brought that to bear in her religious practice. Ben's influence has made her double down on the foundations her upbringing already instilled in her - despite regurgitating a lot of stuff she probably learned rote as a kid, she does also have a level of intellectual engagement with it all. I suspect that at points in her childhood and beyond she really has felt huge shame and disgust at herself, and the avenue she has found to ameliorate that is her faith. Some people grow up and turn away from what they were brought up with: Jessa has done the opposite, embracing it wholeheartedly and locating her sense of self-worth, indentity and purpose within it. Faith works for Jessa, it makes the world navigable for her and actually furthermore she profits from it socially and financially.

I agree with your take on Jessa. A lot of her lifestyle choices remind me of that episode of The Simpsons when Homer tells Marge she can express herself through the home she keeps and the food she cooks, so she protests Homer by serving Mr Burns the three eyed fish. I don't think Jessa is an intellectual powerhouse but I don't think she's the female version of Joe. I think she seeks to challenge and grow herself in very Duggar-approved ways: cooking, intentional parenting choices, etc.

[OrchidBlossom]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:33 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

Jeremy is a Calvinist. The John MacArthur, John Piper dude bro crowd are very staunch Calvinists. 

Oh right. You know what’s weird? I literally forget about Jeremy. Like... maybe because he and Jinger fucked off to Texas and then to LA so they aren’t around? Idk but whenever I round up the spouses for any reason there’s always that... “oh damn I’m forgetting someone...” and it’s always him. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by OrchidBlossom
Spelling

[Daisy0322]

I think all of the girls have married with a certain intent. It’s they’re only way to freedom. Jill thought she’d get a different kind of freedom but she’s an outlier so we’ll throw her out for the sake of argument. 
Jessa- wanted control but the same principles. She marred Ben. He was young she could kind of mold him still and he is very flexible with what he lets her do ( such a weird sentence) I even think of jessa wanted a Part time job or to shill crap like Sierra he wouldn’t mind. 
 

Jinger- wanted to get away (the infamous contentment talk) and she wanted to have the Instagram life. Jeremy lived in Texas and couldn’t move realistically. He also let’s her do what she wants as long as she looks IG ready. She started wearing pants and things like immediately after marriage so I’d say she was for it. 
 

Joy- I think Joy wanted a little independence and to be involved in something productive (like work) she found Austin he cane with a family business (the camp) and he flipped houses. 
 

all these girls had to think about was marriage and their future life and even brainwashed and koolaid soaked you can look around and notice a freedom you want. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 hours ago, baldricks_turnip said:

I think she seeks to challenge and grow herself in very Duggar-approved ways: cooking, intentional parenting choices, etc.

It's interesting that those would be Duggar approved when they were raised in a family where cooking properly wasn't a thing and the only intentional parenting choice was to have more babies to hand off to a buddy after 6 months.

[Timetraveler]

My apologies, this was probably already mentioned, but I am currently watching a Counting On episode on Youtube (I know, such a waste of time!) and Ben cannot read an analog clock? And they want to homeschool their kids?

[mstee]

39 minutes ago, Timetraveler said:

My apologies, this was probably already mentioned, but I am currently watching a Counting On episode on Youtube (I know, such a waste of time!) and Ben cannot read an analog clock? And they want to homeschool their kids?

I saw that, and thought “did I hear him correctly”? I know lots of people have their things they struggle with (mine is math) but that definitely shocked me a little. 

[Italiangirl]

I don't wanna diagnose anyone but my sister who is dyslexic can not read analogically watch when she was younger this was one of the signs that made us think "mmmm maybe better check her" so maybe Ben has a similar problem never fixed? I should probably say that we discover she was dyslexic around 13/14 old 

[Bobology]

50 minutes ago, Timetraveler said:

My apologies, this was probably already mentioned, but I am currently watching a Counting On episode on Youtube (I know, such a waste of time!) and Ben cannot read an analog clock? And they want to homeschool their kids?

I'm sure they all have many empty pockets in the realm of things we should all know, I have plenty myself.  But I'm surprised that Ben's own home education (I guess his mom?) didn't cover this. My kids are in their 30s now and went to a good public school and when digital clocks were placed on the walls of the classrooms, analog went out the window. One daughter had two lessons by a parent helper during 2nd grade. That and no true handwriting education/practice still bother me. I covered the analog clock learning at home, but could never get them to understand the importance of learning and practicing their handwriting.

[Someone Out There]

I've heard that there are a lot of younger people who can't read Analog clocks and they were having to change some tests because of this.  Digital ones are a lot more prevalent so many kids don't learn how to read analog clocks.  It can also be that there are neurological issues but it wouldn't surprise me if he just hadn't learnt how to read them.

[KSmom]

30 minutes ago, Someone Out There said:

I've heard that there are a lot of younger people who can't read Analog clocks and they were having to change some tests because of this.  Digital ones are a lot more prevalent so many kids don't learn how to read analog clocks.  It can also be that there are neurological issues but it wouldn't surprise me if he just hadn't learnt how to read them.

I’ve helped kids with homework and I asked my daughter, they still teach how to read an analog clock in schools around here. I think a big problem is that they don’t see them much outside of school, so it’s one of those things that is learned and forgotten.

And just because I’m a proud math nerd, here is a picture of my kitchen clock. My dad gave it to me.

[OyToTheVey]

TBH I have trouble reading analog clocks. Always have. No matter how long I stare at it my brain doesn't move past the lines. If I concentrate I can but a quick glance like most people? Nope. 

On the other hand, I can pretty much recognize Tchaikovsky when I hear but clocks? They confuse me. BTW the clock above? That's giving me a headache. Calculus and statistics were my worst subjects. Straight A's in psychology tho lol

[Timetraveler]

17 minutes ago, KSmom said:

I’ve helped kids with homework and I asked my daughter, they still teach how to read an analog clock in schools around here. I think a big problem is that they don’t see them much outside of school, so it’s one of those things that is learned and forgotten.

And just because I’m a proud math nerd, here is a picture of my kitchen clock. My dad gave it to me.

Wonderful and what a nice gift your father bought you! I am a History teacher and just looking at your clock makes me dizzy lol ?.

[JanasTattooParlor]

1 hour ago, KSmom said:

I’ve helped kids with homework and I asked my daughter, they still teach how to read an analog clock in schools around here. I think a big problem is that they don’t see them much outside of school, so it’s one of those things that is learned and forgotten.

And just because I’m a proud math nerd, here is a picture of my kitchen clock. My dad gave it to me.

I have this clock in my classroom! My students hate it because 1) they can’t read analog clocks, 2) because they don’t know the math required to know the hour, and 3) they aren’t allowed to check the time on their phone. But at least no one is staring at the clock counting down the minutes until the end of class!

[SassyPants]

Last Spring during virtual schooling, I had to teach my Kindergarten aged GD how to tell time. Thankfully she’s mathematically inclined and picked it right up. And @KSmom that clock actually gave me heart palpitations.

[Glasgowghirl]

My cousin recently discovered she had dyscalculia in her 3rd year of university. She struggled with time and other number related stuff but only got tested when she struggled with stuff to do with her uni coursework, it is apparently more common than people realise but isn't as well tested for as dyslexia is. 

[MathQueen]

And just because I’m a proud math nerd, here is a picture of my kitchen clock. My dad gave it to me.

Thanks for sharing! Here is a picture of mine. MathBoy 1.0 gave it to me, and it hung in my second grade classroom until I retired. It’s now in my “office”, my spare bedroom at home. It was one of two analog clocks in my classroom. I also only wore an analog watch, so my kiddos needed to figure it out. Telling time is a second grade math standard, and it is a skill that has been expected to be mastered then for as long as I can remember. Since analog devices are no longer ubiquitous, it seems that learning to tell analog time has become quite a bit more difficult for kids to master. It’s also full of some challenging math concepts. It’s a form of modular arithmetic, made of twelve hour periods with basically a remainder as you start counting again. It’s also related to the Babylonian base 60 system, which was divided fractionally using the factors of 60. Hence dividing into five minute sections.

I just reread this. I’m apologizing for the boring math stuff. I do find this kind of stuff fascinating. I’m such a nerd.

[KSmom]

@MathQueen, that clock is great for a classsroom! I find all math stuff so interesting! I recently read The Calculus Wars, about the fight between Newton and Leibneiz about who discovered Calculus, such a fascinating story. And full of politics.

My dad also recently gave me his slide rule from college, my goal is to learn how to use it. I was so touched he gave it to me.

[LancetteShing99]

I cannot read digital clocks. Well, I can read them but I can't get a feeling for the time. It's hard to explain but in my head time consists of circles, semi circles, quarter circles and so on. So if I read a digital clock I have to translate the time first before I fully understand it.

I definitely prefer analog clocks.