Jump to content
IGNORED

Dillards 85: Ungodly Swim Suits It's a Cruel Summer


samurai_sarah

Recommended Posts

22 hours ago, Sabine said:

In europe it was the super religious (and their enablers)  that tend to get others, or non religious people burned on the stake or quartered, drawn and disemboweled. . Come from a town like my, Field Station Augsburg for those that served, or Augusta Vindelicorum as initially named 15 BC  by the Romans, and burning witches or having Martin Luther nail a thesis on the Dome doors etc are actually fairly 'recent' happenings. 

And yes, the Afro American German communities, many of them kids of US soldiers left behind not a single thought given  by their black daddies and ditto  White American Communities, kids left behind by their soldiers daddies and yes, you have a Europe that does not conform with the US American ideas about anything. Mind, the soldiers station in Field Station Augsburg could simply not understand why i laughed at their idea of keeping us save from the russians. Lol...you be the first to run to the french coast line to get evacuated to England boy. 

But you are not diverse in your 'evangelic ' views. And fact is anyone who does not need a bearded sky fairy to be not an asshole human is superior. Because if the only reason one is not an outright shitter as a person is religion than one has never had or at the very least has lost what ever moral compass they pretended to posses in the first place. 

WTF kind of racist, ignorant, narrow-minded, crazy bullshit is this?  You sound like an atheist version of fundies.  

  • Upvote 10
  • I Agree 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Pleiades_06

I think the US especially underestimates how diverse the single nations in Europe are. A continent full of different countries is obviously diverse. But people forget that many of those countries only exist in their current form since the end of WWII and Germany and the Eastern European countries only since the end of the Cold War (just look at Poland for example. That country originally was almost somewhere completely else on the map than it is now). It’s a very interesting mix of old nations but also very young at the same time. The borders were always shifting for centuries and new regions/people had to included and adapt all the time. Which wasn’t exactly a peaceful process. Every European nation is pretty diverse in itself. Some more than others but I don’t think the US has a special position in that regard.

  • Upvote 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why there needs to be more emphasis on history and geography in schools and colleges.

  • Upvote 11
  • I Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

What is the difference?

The OG version is on Disney plus and they just take out the F bombs, but Lin Manuel traded the F bombs to keep Say No To This. Which is a lot more explicit than a few swears here and there in the play... Fundies would definitely skip that song and not let's say, Washington On Your Side which has a mother F in it. Also, I'm super happy that Jill and Derrick have finally watched Hamilton! I've been wondering if they have seen it or listened to it since Jill started posting pro BLM posts on her IG stories. There is a lot of historical inaccuracies in the play, but I'm sure that the play has given Jill a way better US History education in just 3 hours than her entire education experience as a Duggar child. Which is sad to say, but overall I would say watching Hamilton is a huge progress for someone like Jill. 

  • Upvote 6
  • I Agree 2
  • Thank You 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I think we need to remember that progress and growth is a journey and doesn't happen overnight. I think we can cheer the small successes, but also hold the Dillard's accountable for their actions. We can appreciate the learning and therapy processes, but also acknowledge that she may have a long way to go in terms of her beliefs. 

I agree totally. But I do have to say, she's made way more progress than I ever expected any of the older Duggars to make, and all of that just in the last couple years or so. Would I prefer that she understand and accept that God makes people in all variations of gender and sexuality? Would I prefer she understand and vote the fact that women should be trusted to make their own choices about their own bodies? Sure. Of course. Maybe someday she'll get there. But at the very least her sons are going to have a much shorter path to get there than she had. They should (based on what they're doing now) have a much better education than she had and much more exposure to diversity, and both those things will boost them even further along!

I really thought we wouldn't see this sort of progress until the youngest Duggar kids got to adulthood and found themselves floundering. I figured the older kids were controlled enough and indoctrinated enough that they'd ride the gravy train as long as possible. (Though I guess falling off of that was what precipitated much of this for Jill!)

And I'm glad she's seen Hamilton. It was amazing, and I also have no doubt she learned more watching that than Michelle ever managed to teach.

Right now, Jill looks like she's pretty standard modern evangelical, to me. I tend to see that as fundie-lite. Not progressive, really, but definitely not full on fundie.

 

  • Upvote 22
  • I Agree 2
  • Love 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

 

Right now, Jill looks like she's pretty standard modern evangelical, to me. I tend to see that as fundie-lite. Not progressive, really, but definitely not fundie 

really Jill and Derek are officially like most of the people who live in my part of the country. They could go to pretty much any church and fit in at the moment.

Edited by Daisy0322
  • Upvote 8
  • I Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

really Jill and Derek are officially like most of the people who live in my part of the country. They could go to pretty much any church and fit in at the moment.

No matter the color or ethnicity?  

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

No matter the color or ethnicity?  

There’s not a ton of diversity in my area all the churches are mostly “white” and have a few members that are not. For example my son goes to public preschool at the moment and out of about 50 kids I think 2 or 3 are anything other than white. It’s a river town with a large farming area if your curious about demographics. My kids have partially black cousins though so they don’t really seem to notice but I will say I’ve seen other kids look a little confused at the start of the year. 
 

ETA- my whole city has fucking Trump signs everywhere ?and I only know a handful of people in real life that will vote Biden 

Edited by Daisy0322
  • Upvote 2
  • Sad 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, marmalade said:

I'm sure Jill watched the censored version. 

Even the “censored” version has curse words other than f bombs. I don’t expect her to know where to get a Broadway bootleg ?? 

Plus doesn’t ATI/IBLP say anything with a back beat is demonic? Everyone seems to be waiting for Jill to become a socialist anarchist polyamorous agnostic (or something obviously left wing) without acknowledging that there are MANY steps in between. I have IFB raised friends who went to public school and wore pants but still won’t watch Hamilton because of the language. You still have people who think it’s anti American because it doesn’t portray the founding fathers as perfect Christian angels who used the Bible to make decisions. 
 

Who would have thought 5 years ago that she would willingly listen to rap music? Especially secular rap music?? I’m honestly just glad she seems to be open to exploring new and secular things. It may not seem like much, but every bit of “rebellion” can be an agonizing step. 

  • Upvote 21
  • I Agree 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

. I have IFB raised friends who went to public school and wore pants but still won’t watch Hamilton because of the language. You still have people who think it’s anti American because it doesn’t portray the founding fathers as perfect Christian angels who used the Bible to make decisions. 
 

Who would have thought 5 years ago that she would willingly listen to rap music? Especially secular rap music?? I’m honestly just glad she seems to be open to exploring new and secular things. It may not seem like much, but every bit of “rebellion” can be an agonizing step. 

You forgot "white". I've heard some people do the whole "I'm not racist, but Alexander Hamilton was white!" thing. 

To be honest, I think it's impossible to be ENOUGH of anything for everybody. You can never please everybody. Frankly no matter how far left she goes, there will be some random person online who doesn't feel like she's gone far enough.

But on the off chance she finds this someday, I hope she sees that there are many people cheering for her as she does make these steps away from the rules and restrictions she grew up with. It's NOT easy to do something you know your family will disapprove of, especially when you are an internationally known (though D-list) celebrity because of that family and it's rules. 

While I'd really prefer her not to be anti-LGBTQ+ and anti-abortion, and to be more socially aware, (and please, vote blue!) she's still miles ahead of her siblings and even farther ahead of her parents. She's shown that she can learn, she's willing to try new things (even if they're probably pretty scary for her), and she seems to want better for her children than what she had. Her younger siblings and other fundie kids can see her, living a happy life, still a Christian, and maybe they'll be a little more willing to take those steps too.

Baby steps are still steps, and she's taken some pretty big steps recently, IMO. I hope she goes back and watches all the big movies that came out when she was young that she missed. I hope she reads all the Harry Potter books to her boys and watches the movies with them, and takes them to Universal to enjoy all the Potter stuff there. Maybe she'll enjoy Star Wars. Maybe she'll take a dance class. Maybe she'll go to college and find a career she loves. She's still pretty young and has the whole world to explore, really. 

And the more different people she meets and the more experiences she has, the better.

  • Upvote 22
  • Disgust 1
  • I Agree 9
  • Love 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always feel a bit unsure when we point out that Jill and Derrick are still connected to a church that has a negative view of homosexuality and doesn't ordain women. I'm a very non-fundie, not very practising Catholic. But I would still identify as Catholic. However I disagree with the church's on both homosexuality and the ordination of women. It's an uncomfortable position but with my upbringing I find it difficult to totally abandon the RC Church. It may be similar for the Dillards. Not at the moment maybe, but down the line.

  • Upvote 21
  • I Agree 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, EmainMacha said:

I always feel a bit unsure when we point out that Jill and Derrick are still connected to a church that has a negative view of homosexuality and doesn't ordain women. I'm a very non-fundie, not very practising Catholic. But I would still identify as Catholic. However I disagree with the church's on both homosexuality and the ordination of women. It's an uncomfortable position but with my upbringing I find it difficult to totally abandon the RC Church. It may be similar for the Dillards. Not at the moment maybe, but down the line.

This is what I meant when I said religion is a spectrum. I did decide to leave the Catholic Church but have respect for those who remain but have more nuanced views, like you.

My husband left his Muslim childhood behind and there’s a range of belief (and non/believers, lol) in his family. All accepted me into their fold. Practicing Muslims accept the LGBTQ community and the women in power too.
 

I will say that watching Hamilton is great and all, as is traveling and getting out of your comfort zone, but it’s not enough. You can be the most well traveled, multi-lingual liberal in the world and still be a close minded dick. Some people check off the boxes without doing the inner work. My illiterate, monolingual 80 something year old Muslim mother-in-law has more humanistic compassion than a lot  of douches posting on Instagram out there. And I just can’t stop thinking Derick is a douche-no matter what.

 

  • Upvote 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Alisamer said:

 

 

And the more different people she meets and the more experiences she has, the better.

As an ex-evangelical I will say, that it all takes some time. And what seem like small steps now can lead to huge steps later. From my experience and others that I know, changing your beliefs about LGBTQ persons and abortion usually come about through relationships (a friend or family member being LGBTQ, for example). So the larger Jill and Derick’s circle the more likely that they will meet others with different life experiences. The fact that they are willing to make the changes we see now show that they are willing, at least to some extent, to question what they have always believed and make changes. 

  • Upvote 16
  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know how many changes Derelict has made. He's merely reverted back to the way he was raised. We'll never really know how comfortable he was when he associated primarily with the IFB crowd. 

That said, Jill HAS made strides in becoming mainstream Baptist. I doubt she'll ever champion women's rights or vote Democratic, but she has certainly come a long way in a relatively short time. They were still toeing the IFB line when they were in Central America, so it's only really been the last three years or so that she's really changed.

  • Upvote 11
  • I Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry! I don't mean to sow discontent. I just...I can't hop on the Jill bandwagon yet (though I think it's worth mentioning that it takes a lot for me to really *dislike* someone so on the flipside my thoughts on Jill generally probably haven't changed as much as some posters who didn't like her as much to begin with) 

Anyhow. 

Is it at all possible that Jill's changes are happening *Because* it's what Dereck wants? In which case what is the real difference between Jill becoming more mainstream to suit Dereck's needs and build his reputation and say Jinger becoming more mainstream to suit Jeremy's needs and his reputation? Is it seen as more positive because Jill isn't as pretentious as Jinger? Or because Jeremy is training to be a pastor and Dereck is in law school? 

Full disclosure I find Jill less obnoxious as Jinger (but Jinger to be less annoying as Dereck) but I am genuinely curious as to what we set the bar as to mean real change. 

What harmful beliefs do we think are snark worthy and what harmful beliefs are we willing to account to mainstream religion? 

Is Dereck and Jill's homophobia more palatable than JinJers because Dereck is in law school and Jill wears tank tops? 

Is the likelihood that Dereck and Jill likely still embrace complimentarianism to some extent better than say Joy and Austin embracing the same because Jill wears pants and Joy doesn't?  

On a larger scale where do we decide to draw the line between someone embraces the "harmful beliefs and is therefore fundamentalist" and Someone has harmful beliefs but is just mainstream evangelical?

  • Upvote 6
  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Dillards will always bear watching by FJ. AS I alluded to in my previous post, they are never going to become progressive, no matter how crunchy Jill becomes. But she's exposing herself to mainstream society, something denied to her when she lived at home and was only marginally better the first few years of her marriage. 

Although she will never be a poster at FJ, she is learning new things all the time. That will only make her stronger and better equipped to keep her toxic parents at arms length as she recovers from her abuses.

  • Upvote 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, marmalade said:

Although she will never be a poster at FJ, she is learning new things all the time. That will only make her stronger and better equipped to keep her toxic parents at arms length as she recovers from her abuses.

Never say never!

  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/14/2020 at 6:22 PM, RosyDaisy said:

WTF kind of racist, ignorant, narrow-minded, crazy bullshit is this?  You sound like an atheist version of fundies.  

Its not racist at all to state that most of the early Afro-american German kids where babies born to German mothers who were not married to the fathers and that the fathers left the children behind in Germany, as did many of the their white fathers btw who are way more prolific in fathering children that they then leave behind - the world over btw. All of these kids face a myriad of issues in their home country for not 'being like the others'. 

I have an uncle who was very tall, very black, with a beautiful Afro who was born into Bavaria into the late 1950. His life growing up until the 'liberal' seventies came along was shit. And that is me being polite. IT was so shit, i tried to wash him white as a small child with Grandpa's sand soap. Rub of the brown. Guess what it did not work. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_children#:~:text=Probably more than 100%2C000 children,region since World War II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Babies#:~:text=As of 1955%2C African-American,children of US soldiers overall.

Fwiw, i am not an atheist, i just have no use for religion that uses bigotry to enforce rules for the benefit of the very few and nothing but misery for everyone else. And frankly, Atheists are the prove that one does not need organised religion and still be a decent human being. While many many so called religious people do nothing the whole day and every day of the year else but hurt others. 

Edited by Sabine
lost words
  • Upvote 1
  • WTF 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/12/2020 at 5:12 AM, luv2laugh said:

Does anyone have any theories why Joystin left the show?

playing catch up but my theory has been that JB/TLC tried to exploit Annabelle's death in some way (or maybe they were successful, I rarely watch the show) and that was enough for them and they either broke contract (which i doubt since there was no noisy fuss like with the Dillards) or elected not to renew it (which i feel is more likely)

  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joy and Austin were dialing down their Counting On appearances well before Annabelle. I think they just aren’t that into it. Austin has an actual job and work ethic, and I suspect those time commitments don’t leave much too to play act every time TLC comes calling. So they go along when the filming focuses on a family activity they would attend regardless, but they pass on the things that don’t fit their schedule. 

They did film a segment planting a tree at Annabelle’s gravesite - Joy and Austin both seemed at ease with it, and based on Joy’s it changing hairstyles, we know they continued filming talking heads for some time after. They are very much a part of the show during the current season. 

  • Upvote 10
  • I Agree 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, Joystin are still participating in the show, but are now choosing when they participate. Since Boob has nearly 40 people to support now and TLC paychecks aren’t getting bigger, I’m sure he’s fine with them pulling back and paying them less. My guess is they asked rather than demanded. They’re still ‘respecting his authority’ so there was no blowup or estrangement.

Amazing what happens when you have a job outside of ‘reality tv show star’...

  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t expect a great leap of faith from Jill but I agree that like Jinger she’s not wholly different except for the packaging. Israel’s school is probably the biggest cultural change but many here speculated that Derick would have concerns about Jill’s ability to educate based on her own lack of education and Derick's experience of school and university. 
I guess I am looking for some acknowledgement from any Duggar that while they have certain beliefs they accept that a civilised society should not have legislative power to discriminate and abuse based on the religious views of those in power. So robocalls inciting fear about trans people, laws allowing discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender preference and denying contraception access or abortion are wrong no matter what your views are. My mother was vehemently opposed to abortion and divorce but her view was she wouldn’t contemplate either but neither did she vote to take that right away from others.

So enjoy your pina colada and ripped jeans Jill but while you still think you have the right to impose your beliefs on others you’re not much better than the rest. 

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • samurai_sarah locked, unlocked, locked, unlocked and locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.