Dillards 85: Ungodly Swim Suits It's a Cruel Summer

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

I 100% agree.

I don’t know... I consider Derick and Jill to be mainstream evangelical Christians. Unfortunately, the majority of mainstream evangelical Christians I know are pro-life and pro-Trump. 
 

Derick and Jill have hateful views, like Cathy and any other evangelical Christian, but they are no longer fundies.

 

If it weren’t for the $, I believe Jessa would be like Jinger. I wonder why Jinger feels comfortable dressing mainstream (and probably drinking alcohol) and isn’t disowned by JB?

DISTANCE. The Vuolos are safely ensconced in CA, so JB is not going to just pop in. He probably still has a key to Jessa and Ben’s place.

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

DISTANCE. The Vuolos are safely ensconced in CA, so JB is not going to just pop in. He probably still has a key to Jessa and Ben’s place.

Quoting myself here. Liquor bottles are evidence. JB might troll the Seewalds’ garbage.

Edited September 11, 2020 by SassyPants

[front hugs > duggs]

I’m also super intrigued about the Jill-Joy dynamic these days. I feel like you hear Joy talk about Jessa or Jana much more, even on her YouTube. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I wonder if Jill has discovered Irish coffees yet? Perhaps as the weather gets colder she'll try some Baileys in her coffee. I think they might even release a pumpkin spice Baileys for fall (I could totally see Jill being a pumpkin spice kind of gal).

[EmainMacha]

22 hours ago, Bobology said:

I wonder if the 2nd gen women, and Mackynzie, too, will end up having any issues with their backs/hips after toting around so many toddlers. Their pics often show them holding older babies and toddlers with their hips thrust out to offset the weight of the held child. They have done it throughout their childhoods and teen years with baby after baby. That can't be good. 

A decade or two ago there were weight restriction on kids' school backpacks issued because of possible later orthopedic issues. I'd think a baby or toddler is even harder on backs because of how the weight is carried.

My cousin ended up with a hernia that had to be surgically removed at the grand old age of 11. She was always toting a child on her hips. She was finally relieved from carrying duties after that.

[just_ordinary]

21 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I 100% agree.

I don’t know... I consider Derick and Jill to be mainstream evangelical Christians. Unfortunately, the majority of mainstream evangelical Christians I know are pro-life and pro-Trump. 
 

Derick and Jill have hateful views, like Cathy and any other evangelical Christian, but they are no longer fundies.

 

If it weren’t for the $, I believe Jessa would be like Jinger. I wonder why Jinger feels comfortable dressing mainstream (and probably drinking alcohol) and isn’t disowned by JB?

That is so interesting. Whenever I try to tell people that mainstream Christians in the USA are basically the Fundamentals in my country I get lots of counter arguments. Obviously there are regional differences but in general there seem to be lots of mindsets still around that our churches choose to not talk about anymore (abortion, same sex marriage- many will do at least a blessing though,, not sure if Queer or Trans is actually an issue) and others have been left in the 50/60s (contraception, inter religious marriage, how you raise your children, if you go to church regularly or at all, sex education in school, skipping lessons for religious reasons, the idea that pastors and even the partner is a role model in some sorts....). Of course we also have more traditional congregations but what I wrote is the big majority. And so called „free“ churches - where the real nut jobs go (from a mainstream perspectiv, no offense) only make 0,1%. 
There are massive differences to the US. Some are obvious but many have a very subtle tone which leads to miss understandings. To me, Jill and Derick are still Fundie. Big time. Just a different flavour.

[Pleiades_06]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

That is so interesting. Whenever I try to tell people that mainstream Christians in the USA are basically the Fundamentals in my country I get lots of counter arguments. Obviously there are regional differences but in general there seem to be lots of mindsets still around that our churches choose to not talk about anymore (abortion, same sex marriage- many will do at least a blessing though,, not sure if Queer or Trans is actually an issue) and others have been left in the 50/60s (contraception, inter religious marriage, how you raise your children, if you go to church regularly or at all, sex education in school, skipping lessons for religious reasons, the idea that pastors and even the partner is a role model in some sorts....). Of course we also have more traditional congregations but what I wrote is the big majority. And so called „free“ churches - where the real nut jobs go (from a mainstream perspectiv, no offense) only make 0,1%. 
There are massive differences to the US. Some are obvious but many have a very subtle tone which leads to miss understandings. To me, Jill and Derick are still Fundie. Big time. Just a different flavour.

What do you think mainstream Christianity in the US actually consists of? The majority of Christians are Catholics, and the Catholic Church doesn’t differ really from those around the world. Neither do the Lutheran churches here from the general Protestant ones in Europe.

I don’t know about all of Europe, but abortion laws in the US vary widely while the German laws, in comparison to the state I’m from in the US, are quite restrictive. In fact, it’s technically illegal but decriminalized in Germany. Single sex marriage-not unions-were just made legal in Germany in 2017, with church groups before that time voicing opposition against it. The German laws /government were supporting some pretty conservative views by US standards so the churches there didn’t have a lot to get active about.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Pleiades_06

[crancraz]

1 hour ago, Pleiades_06 said:

What do you think mainstream Christianity in the US actually consists of? The majority of Christians are Catholics, and the Catholic Church doesn’t differ really from those around the world. Neither do the Lutheran churches here from the general Protestant ones in Europe.

I don’t know about all of Europe, but abortion laws in the US vary widely while the German laws, in comparison to the state I’m from in the US, are quite restrictive. In fact, it’s technically illegal but decriminalized in Germany. Single sex marriage-not unions-were just made legal in Germany in 2017, with church groups before that time voicing opposition against it. The German laws /government were supporting some pretty conservative views by US standards so the churches there didn’t have a lot to get active about.

Interesting about Germany. I think many Americans tend to think that “Europe” is super progressive about social issues and of course that is not the case. 
 

Also, the majority of Christians in the US are not Catholic. See this breakdown of religion in the US. About 25% identify as evangelical, 14% as mainline Protestant and 20% Catholic. 
 

Pew Research Center: Religion in America

[Pleiades_06]

9 minutes ago, crancraz said:

Interesting about Germany. I think many Americans tend to think that “Europe” is super progressive about social issues and of course that is not the case. 
 

Also, the majority of Christians in the US are not Catholic. See this breakdown of religion in the US. About 25% identify as evangelical, 14% as mainline Protestant and 20% Catholic. 
 

Pew Research Center: Religion in America

Thanks for the stats! My corner is overwhelmingly Catholic so that’s where I got that from.

Interesting that evangelical and unaffiliated are almost the same now.

[SassyPants]

I think non-Americans need to understand that there are many American Christians who just go through the motions, much like picking and choosing food at a buffet line. Most Americans who are Christians are not Bible literalists by any stretch of the imagination. They mainly pick and choose what suits them, likely using their childhood or family religion as a starting point. I would say a minuscule % of American Christians qualify as fundamentalist. I also think in many other countries, especially those on the continents of Europe and Asia, religious practices have greatly evolved over time. Did I read somewhere that in the Republic of Ireland, where almost everyone is RC, only 2% of the population attends weekly mass? For whatever reason, the US is a land of Guns and God. Maybe because of the # of guns, Americans really feel that they need some God time too? I can’t get over the fact that TRUMP is the candidate of conservative Christians. WTeverlovingHell. Trump is the farthest thing from a religious, conservative  or spiritual person, IMO. Wonder how many terminations he’s paid for? 

[Someone Out There]

I could be wrong, but wouldn't it essentially be for the Europeans they could think of it as America may consist of 51 different states, that are essentially 51 different countries (a la the EU).  Similar to Europe you have more and less socially conservative countries (e.g. I wouldn't consider Poland to be socially progressive).  More of Europe however would have a better Health Care System than the USA however.  Note: I am neither European, or American.

[SassyPants]

55 minutes ago, Someone Out There said:

I could be wrong, but wouldn't it essentially be for the Europeans they could think of it as America may consist of 51 different states, that are essentially 51 different countries (a la the EU).  Similar to Europe you have more and less socially conservative countries (e.g. I wouldn't consider Poland to be socially progressive).  More of Europe however would have a better Health Care System than the USA however.  Note: I am neither European, or American.

True the US is vast and all those states and regions very much differ in belief systems. 

[Pleiades_06]

Just like to add that people in Europe don’t realize how diverse the US is and people in the US don’t realize how diverse Europe is. Immigration has transformed both. Take Germany-Germans aren’t just white ethnic German speakers. There are thriving Afro-German and Iranian-German communities, among many others.

One thing that bothers me in both countries is when people who are agnostic or atheist label religious people as non-progressive. There’s a spectrum of religious belief and that’s fine- as long as it doesn’t encroach on others or is fundamentalist. Just because you’re not religious doesn’t you morally superior or more progressive. 

[baldricks_turnip]

11 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

That is so interesting. Whenever I try to tell people that mainstream Christians in the USA are basically the Fundamentals in my country I get lots of counter arguments.

As an Australian, there have been some raised eyebrows here about Bindi Irwin marrying so young and getting pregnant straight away, with the assumption she must have been a wait until marriage type under the influence of her American mother. That in itself is pretty much fundie status here.

[Sabine]

6 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

Just like to add that people in Europe don’t realize how diverse the US is and people in the US don’t realize how diverse Europe is. Immigration has transformed both. Take Germany-Germans aren’t just white ethnic German speakers. There are thriving Afro-German and Iranian-German communities, among many others.

One thing that bothers me in both countries is when people who are agnostic or atheist label religious people as non-progressive. There’s a spectrum of religious belief and that’s fine- as long as it doesn’t encroach on others or is fundamentalist. Just because you’re not religious doesn’t you morally superior or more progressive. 

In europe it was the super religious (and their enablers)  that tend to get others, or non religious people burned on the stake or quartered, drawn and disemboweled. . Come from a town like my, Field Station Augsburg for those that served, or Augusta Vindelicorum as initially named 15 BC  by the Romans, and burning witches or having Martin Luther nail a thesis on the Dome doors etc are actually fairly 'recent' happenings. 

And yes, the Afro American German communities, many of them kids of US soldiers left behind not a single thought given  by their black daddies and ditto  White American Communities, kids left behind by their soldiers daddies and yes, you have a Europe that does not conform with the US American ideas about anything. Mind, the soldiers station in Field Station Augsburg could simply not understand why i laughed at their idea of keeping us save from the russians. Lol...you be the first to run to the french coast line to get evacuated to England boy. 

But you are not diverse in your 'evangelic ' views. And fact is anyone who does not need a bearded sky fairy to be not an asshole human is superior. Because if the only reason one is not an outright shitter as a person is religion than one has never had or at the very least has lost what ever moral compass they pretended to posses in the first place. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Sabine

[SorenaJ]

3 minutes ago, Sabine said:

But you are not diverse in your 'evangelic ' views. And fact is anyone who does not need a bearded sky fairy to be not an asshole human is superior. Because if the only reason one is not an outright shitter as a person is religion than one has never had or at the very least has lost what ever moral compass they pretended to posses in the first place. 

But if the end result is more kind and moral people, who cares how they got there? Fake it till you make it, right?

[Sabine]

5 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

But if the end result is more kind and moral people, who cares how they got there? Fake it till you make it, right?

True that, but then its not agnostic people that give 'religious' people an issue (in Europe anyways)  and pretend they can't be moral. That is my main beef with religious people, is that they actually think they are better then the agnostics or other believers (others...ha don't they know their gods ain't shit?) , while have a look at the duggars or the rods and the fake christians in the senate. Non of them kind or moral, but all will be find procrastinating and proclaiming their faith as a reason for all they do and not their individual greed and general assholery. 

[Pleiades_06]

5 hours ago, Sabine said:

And yes, the Afro American German communities, many of them kids of US soldiers left behind not a single thought given  by their black daddies a

I think it’s problematic to assume  that all the “black daddies “ didn’t give them a single thought. It’s more complicated than that.

And you’re forgetting the extensive African community that has created Afro-German culture. They are more recent immigrants.

5 hours ago, Sabine said:

nd fact is anyone who does not need a bearded sky fairy to be not an asshole human is superior.

I don’t completely understand you-are you saying people who don’t believe in God are superior? Because I know a lot of asshole humans who don’t believe in God and try to force that on others. 

 

5 hours ago, Sabine said:

but then its not agnostic people that give 'religious' people an issue (in Europe anyways)  and pretend they can't be moral

Yes it is. They especially make life hard for the Muslim community by ignoring the fact that you can have a spiritual life and not conform to their ideas. 
 

6 hours ago, baldricks_turnip said:

As an Australian, there have been some raised eyebrows here about Bindi Irwin marrying so young and getting pregnant straight away, with the assumption she must have been a wait until marriage type under the influence of her American mother. That in itself is pretty much fundie status here.

Is her American mother a fundie?

Edited September 13, 2020 by Pleiades_06

[finnlassie]

Honestly, I've started to see Jill's obsession with baskets sort of endearing. It's a weird thing for sure, but then again, I have a collection of tens of cow related items in my flat.....

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

7 hours ago, Sabine said:

In europe it was the super religious (and their enablers)  that tend to get others, or non religious people burned on the stake or quartered, drawn and disemboweled. . Come from a town like my, Field Station Augsburg for those that served, or Augusta Vindelicorum as initially named 15 BC  by the Romans, and burning witches or having Martin Luther nail a thesis on the Dome doors etc are actually fairly 'recent' happenings. 

And yes, the Afro American German communities, many of them kids of US soldiers left behind not a single thought given  by their black daddies and ditto  White American Communities, kids left behind by their soldiers daddies and yes, you have a Europe that does not conform with the US American ideas about anything. Mind, the soldiers station in Field Station Augsburg could simply not understand why i laughed at their idea of keeping us save from the russians. Lol...you be the first to run to the french coast line to get evacuated to England boy. 

But you are not diverse in your 'evangelic ' views. And fact is anyone who does not need a bearded sky fairy to be not an asshole human is superior. Because if the only reason one is not an outright shitter as a person is religion than one has never had or at the very least has lost what ever moral compass they pretended to posses in the first place. 

WOW! This is some next level narrow minded bull shit, I don't even know where to start.  You seem to be one of those asshole atheists who look down your nose at anyone who believes in God.  Just like the Duggar's pushing their cult crap on people you are shoving your views on others by telling me (because I do believe in God) that I'm a moron. Not all atheists are assholes but neither are all Christians. 

I can't even comment on the "black daddies"  that is plain racist, not all US soldiers are black, in fact approximately 80% of the US military is white.  Check your racism and your moral superiority, it's making you look like a dick. 

[AussieKrissy]

15 hours ago, baldricks_turnip said:

As an Australian, there have been some raised eyebrows here about Bindi Irwin marrying so young and getting pregnant straight away, with the assumption she must have been a wait until marriage type under the influence of her American mother. That in itself is pretty much fundie status here.

I don’t read women’s day or any other trashy Aussie mags. I do however read trashy daily mail. I have not seen that kind of sentiment anywhere (yet). I actually put her young relationship down to, being “raised right”. Let me explain my thinking. I do honestly believe Bindi is a good kid. A little trained to be “on show” but that’s the nature of her industry. I think she had stable and loving parents who showed her (for a limited amount of time) a happy and stable marriage. I think she found a good guy young she is financially secure and she wants to and is able to recreate what her parents had. By being raised right I mean it that she has seen healthy relationships modelled and is able to recreate that. I never got the impression they were waiting for marriage. I got the impression they just weren’t the naked on a beach in France kind of people. Now watch me be wrong and they fundie as F 

[purple_summer]

*crashes through wall like the Kool Aid man* 

JILL WATCHED HAMILTON 

AS IN THE HAMILTON WITH THE RAP MUSIC AND THE CURSING AND THE COLORED PEOPLE 

She didn’t come right out and say it but there’s a clip of Derick shaking his shoulders and humming the melody to “you’ll be back”. Jill wants people to guess what they just watched. It’s in her instagram stories as of 5 hours before I posted this comment. 

[LacyMay]

I'm struggling with my feelings about Jill right now. On one hand I'm thrilled that she drank a Pina Colada, put Izzy in Public School, is wearing some strappy shirts and watched Hamilton. 

On the other I'm a cynical person who questions how much of these are really of substance and how many are just window dressing? 

She still has a link to the SBC website in her Instagram story highlights asking people to go know Jesus (SBC while a nice cry away from IFB does not view homosexuality as a valid lifestyle and does not support the ordination of women), links to the main Duggar website (and JinJer, JoKen and Benessa websites) as well as a handful of family resources that are also shared on those sites. So really I'm just not confident that the ugly beliefs that we tend to rail against have actually changed. It just feels complicated. 

Right now Jill seems slightly more mainstream than Abby (pants, tank tops, pursued further education) but just slightly. Actually thinking about that I hope that Abby encourages Jill to give nursing a second look. 

 

Dereck on the other hand...well I have no grace for him. I don't care if he sings Hamilton till he's blue in the face and the cows come home.  He's given me no reason to believe that he's anything other than entitled, spiteful and bigoted. Of course none of these things are related to him being a former fundie. I know other people with the same traits who aren't fundie and I dislike them too. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by LacyMay

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, purple_summer said:

*crashes through wall like the Kool Aid man* 

JILL WATCHED HAMILTON 

AS IN THE HAMILTON WITH THE RAP MUSIC AND THE CURSING AND THE COLORED PEOPLE 

She didn’t come right out and say it but there’s a clip of Derick shaking his shoulders and humming the melody to “you’ll be back”. Jill wants people to guess what they just watched. It’s in her instagram stories as of 5 hours before I posted this comment. 

I'm sure Jill watched the censored version. 

[AussieKrissy]

13 minutes ago, marmalade said:

I'm sure Jill watched the censored version. 

What is the difference?

[Idlewild]

1 hour ago, LacyMay said:

I'm struggling with my feelings about Jill right now. On one hand I'm thrilled that she drank a Pina Colada, put Izzy in Public School, is wearing some strappy shirts and watched Hamilton. 

On the other I'm a cynical person who questions how much of these are really of substance and how many are just window dressing? 

She still has a link to the SBC website in her Instagram story highlights asking people to go know Jesus (SBC while a nice cry away from IFB does not view homosexuality as a valid lifestyle and does not support the ordination of women), links to the main Duggar website (and JinJer, JoKen and Benessa websites) as well as a handful of family resources that are also shared on those sites. So really I'm just not confident that the ugly beliefs that we tend to rail against have actually changed. It just feels complicated. 

Right now Jill seems slightly more mainstream than Abby (pants, tank tops, pursued further education) but just slightly. Actually thinking about that I hope that Abby encourages Jill to give nursing a second look. 

 

Dereck on the other hand...well I have no grace for him. I don't care if he sings Hamilton till he's blue in the face and the cows come home.  He's given me no reason to believe that he's anything other than entitled, spiteful and bigoted. Of course none of these things are related to him being a former fundie. I know other people with the same traits who aren't fundie and I dislike them too. 

I’m the same. I’m glad if she is receiving therapy and I’m glad she’s exploring the harmless experiences her parents deemed immodest and sinful.

However she was raised Duggar and Derick hitched his horse to the Duggar cart. Her supposed emancipation has aroused a lot of public interest and sympathy and yay! a People article and probably more income via her endorsements. I hope they do realise how harmful and hateful the views they embraced are but I think they’re a long way off that.