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Dillards 85: Ungodly Swim Suits It's a Cruel Summer


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50 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

Ok @SassyPants. I just remember Cathy seeming to be all in at the beginning. She even went to the TTH to give Jill something for Derick before the Nepal trip. The red flags went up after the wedding though. I completely agree that she was a big influence in them stepping away.

And remember Cathy escorted Derick home from India ( maybe she met him somewhere in the US and made the final leg of the trip with him) in January of 2014. This was the time Jill and Derick hugged and Michelle almost stroked-out. Maybe that frontal hug was the start of their demise-?!  I don’t think she seemed sick then, but was diagnosed just months after that time.

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I used to think there had to be something more to the drying rack incident in Costa Rica, but increasingly think it really was just a loud noise, with Jill’s (over)reaction fueled by a trauma/PTSD response. If she was reacting that strongly to fairly innocuous events, especially if it persisted after their return to AR, that may have prompted Derrick to intervene/seek help. 

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On 9/8/2020 at 2:57 PM, Glasgowghirl said:

According to my late Great Grandad, Whisky was his medicine he lived until he was 97 and he had at least a glass of whisky a day. 

Hello Glasgow, east coast calling! Same with my Grandpa who lived to 95. Mum and Dad also rubbed my gums with whisky when I was teething. No idea where I got the taste for the water of life ... ?

Edited by Kleine Vampirin
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3 hours ago, mpheels said:

I used to think there had to be something more to the drying rack incident in Costa Rica, but increasingly think it really was just a loud noise, with Jill’s (over)reaction fueled by a trauma/PTSD response. If she was reacting that strongly to fairly innocuous events, especially if it persisted after their return to AR, that may have prompted Derrick to intervene/seek help. 

I think you might be on to something, Jill was alone with Izzy in a strange country that she didn't speak the language and had been told her whole life was a hell hole of brown people that would rape & kill the pretty white ladies and their babies. Add to this her sexual assault by her brother, her possibly witnessing at least 1 of her sisters assaults and then her parents UTTER FAILURE do anything about their brother beyond making her and her sisters forgive him. Their probably was/is some PTSD/childhood trauma that she wasn't able to process emotionally because she was emotionally stunted. 

I think we all agree her inability to cope with adulting was a huge issue in their early marriage and caused some big issues.  I still think Cathy was/is a HUGE factor in dragging these two out of fundy-cultdum. I think she was supportive because she thought she was dying and wanted to see at least ONE of her boys marry, wanted 1 of her kids to have some sort of family, and the Duggar's appear to all encompassing and would have gladly accepted Dan into their fold as well, meaning someone would be a family for her boys.   

I'm 100% certain Derrick, Cathy, Ben & his parents had NO IDEA about Josh and what he did to Jill & Jessa.  Jessa MAY have told Ben, but I don't know that Jill would have said anything because she wouldn't have wanted to go against her parents demands. I'm sure finding out that her DIL had been sexually abused by her big brother & her parents essentially brushed it under the rug would be enough to push any parent to do everything to get your kid away from those crazy ass people. 

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5 hours ago, mpheels said:

I used to think there had to be something more to the drying rack incident in Costa Rica, but increasingly think it really was just a loud noise, with Jill’s (over)reaction fueled by a trauma/PTSD response. If she was reacting that strongly to fairly innocuous events, especially if it persisted after their return to AR, that may have prompted Derrick to intervene/seek help. 

Even if it’s just that she copes poorly with stress, it’s good that she and Derick recognized that the missionary life wasn’t for her. I believe they were fired from SOS Ministries, and I wonder if that resulted in some humility and self-examination for them. BTW, it was El Salvador (which obviously doesn’t need to be told about Jesus!!), not Costa Rica.

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2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I think you might be on to something, Jill was alone with Izzy in a strange country that she didn't speak the language and had been told her whole life was a hell hole of brown people that would rape & kill the pretty white ladies and their babies. Add to this her sexual assault by her brother, her possibly witnessing at least 1 of her sisters assaults and then her parents UTTER FAILURE do anything about their brother beyond making her and her sisters forgive him. Their probably was/is some PTSD/childhood trauma that she wasn't able to process emotionally because she was emotionally stunted. 

I think we all agree her inability to cope with adulting was a huge issue in their early marriage and caused some big issues.  I still think Cathy was/is a HUGE factor in dragging these two out of fundy-cultdum. I think she was supportive because she thought she was dying and wanted to see at least ONE of her boys marry, wanted 1 of her kids to have some sort of family, and the Duggar's appear to all encompassing and would have gladly accepted Dan into their fold as well, meaning someone would be a family for her boys.   

I'm 100% certain Derrick, Cathy, Ben & his parents had NO IDEA about Josh and what he did to Jill & Jessa.  Jessa MAY have told Ben, but I don't know that Jill would have said anything because she wouldn't have wanted to go against her parents demands. I'm sure finding out that her DIL had been sexually abused by her big brother & her parents essentially brushed it under the rug would be enough to push any parent to do everything to get your kid away from those crazy ass people. 

It would for me. And it would also mean I would do everything to make sure my grandkids had minimum contact with Josh. And all mechelle and Jb, because obviously I would not trust them to keep my grandkids safe when they could not keep their own daughters and a babysitter safe. 

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30 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Even if it’s just that she copes poorly with stress, it’s good that she and Derick recognized that the missionary life wasn’t for her. I believe they were fired from SOS Ministries, and I wonder if that resulted in some humility and self-examination for them. BTW, it was El Salvador (which obviously doesn’t need to be told about Jesus!!), not Costa Rica.

Thanks - don’t know why I had Costa Rica in my head.

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OT, All this talk of Costa Rica reminds me of this funny Alternatino skit called “Guatemala - also a place.” I recommend checking it out on YouTube. 

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7 hours ago, Kleine Vampirin said:

Hello Glasgow, east coast calling! Same with my Grandpa who lived to 95. Mum and Dad also rubbed my gums with whisky when I was teething. No idea where I got the taste for the water of life ... ?

That was the done thing, you wouldn't get away with it now. 

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On 9/7/2020 at 1:38 AM, kmachete14 said:

I’ve been thinking about Jill pre-transformation and I do think all the signs were there. She was bossy and stuck up because she wanted order in a disorderly house, needed to kiss up to her parents to feel validated, and had the general “type A” big sister personality because she could think things through and realize there needed to be accountability (and I’m not talking about JBs version lol). She was smug because she knew she was the best at whatever they were doing — that’s a sign of ambition and confidence. Even her missionary dreams were probably her only ticket to travel, meet new people, experience other culture, and learn more. Her midwife dreams show she was smart and valued education and women’s health. 
 

Maybe all these qualities were insufferable in a fundie environment, but perhaps Jill was just being the “best” in her environment, without actually believing in the environment. Now she can use her curiosity, ambition, and confidence in an environment she actually likes. 

I think that is a bit reaching. Jill and Derick making lots of independent and good choices for themselves. And the praise is well deserved! But soon enough they are going to remind us they are still pro-life, anti-LGBQT, pro-Trump, probably pro-corporal punishment and still enforcing gender roles and we will be back to jump on them. They just don’t spill it out that obvious at the moment.
I think Jill was lucky that Derick seemingly realised things are not going well and probably influenced by his mother and family saw some light. Otherwise she would have been pretty content living just as her siblings. Maybe not as happy but I doubt she would had the tools to realise that. 

So, while there is definitely progress we shouldn’t start turning around and interpret all their actions with a positive spin. Next someone tries to explain Derick‘s attacks on Jazz as the only way to piss TLC off enough to get released out of JB contracts. They have grown. They left some harmful things behind and as far as I am concerned hold on to some harmful mindsets. What I like most about this is that they are a great example that real therapy is helping and that marriages might go through a rough time, especially if you marry fast, but that this can be overcome and without the women taking all the blame.

Jill is still the same person. A people pleaser, wanting to be the „golden child“. Therapy has probably helped her to identify harmful behaviour and mindsets, so she is able to reflect on herself and stir it in better directions sometimes. But she also has a new crowd to please and she is succeeding in that. Interesting will be if she feels strong and confident enough to go heads to heads with Derick and to maintain her point of view (you don’t have to agree on everything) or even overrule him. That would be a fantastic development for her and their family if he can take it.

My biggest hope is that they will raise their children in a loving home without emotional or physical abuse and scaring them with a future in hell. Add the value of education. If that can be achieved in this generation much is won. I doubt we will see 2ndGen move into mainstream Christianity (which in the US appears still pretty damn Fundie to me) or back away from their pro-life/anti-lgbqt mindset. That’s something I think might happen in the 3rdGen.

On 9/7/2020 at 2:51 PM, Glasgowghirl said:

I feel terrible for him, he came back from Alert a totally different person and lost his personality. As child and young teen Josiah was confident, always seemed to enjoy joking around and also was interested in learning, he would ask questions on the show, I think Jim Bob felt threatened by that and at times he appeared to show contempt towards Josiah. I hope him and Lauren are happier than they appear to be. 

Lauren seems very close to her family as does Josiah (at least TLC made it look like that). Hopefully, if they maintain that closeness he can at least have a father figure that shows more appreciation and explore some different ways. The Swanson‘s seem to be doing fine financially and in terms of coping with their number oh children. Maybe that will help him to grow in that direction.

On 9/7/2020 at 9:21 PM, nausicaa said:

True, but how many of them are actively temperature tracking? I got the impression many of them actually are just letting it happen, like Kendra. And if that's the case, they wouldn't know if they were someone who ovulates during their period or has small periods while pregnant, so there really wouldn't be a very safe window. 

And maybe it's just me, but I'd be terrible at keeping track in my head of when I last had my period and when my husband and I had last had sex. I completely forget the start date of my last period if I don't mark it in my date book.  If I were Quiverfull, I'd forgo the pina coladas only to avoid having to do so much damn math. ?

I do think they know enough about their cycle to get the standard rules. I am also convinced they know the basics of the temperature method. And I do believe they watch their cycle at least loosely one way or other. All those honeymoon babies are too much of a coincidence. Honestly, being on your period and the week after you have a very high chance to be not ovulating. So that’s about two weeks at least. But alcohol also effects the reproductive system badly- minimally but I can see why Fundies who want to procreate a lot will do everything to ensure a perfect condition. Or maybe not- otherwise they would eat a healthier diet. I believe it’s just another thing those cults use to control people, while those have something to feel superior. Nothings against being abstinent, but it’s just a superficial choice and doesn’t make you better than others.

Edited by just_ordinary
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1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

And I do believe they watch their cycle at least loosely one way or other. All those honeymoon babies are too much of a coincidence.

While I don't doubt they watch their cycles (since didn't Michelle have hers marked on a family calendar), but I would think the honeymoon babies are just from young, fertile people finally being able to bang and doing so every single day until it loses a bit of novelty.

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7 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Unfortunately, the 7 YOs never get the proper instruction as to how to do things safely and correctly, hence the kids end up not being proficient at much of anything.

I wonder if the 2nd gen women, and Mackynzie, too, will end up having any issues with their backs/hips after toting around so many toddlers. Their pics often show them holding older babies and toddlers with their hips thrust out to offset the weight of the held child. They have done it throughout their childhoods and teen years with baby after baby. That can't be good. 

A decade or two ago there were weight restriction on kids' school backpacks issued because of possible later orthopedic issues. I'd think a baby or toddler is even harder on backs because of how the weight is carried.

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59 minutes ago, Bobology said:

I wonder if the 2nd gen women, and Mackynzie, too, will end up having any issues with their backs/hips after toting around so many toddlers. Their pics often show them holding older babies and toddlers with their hips thrust out to offset the weight of the held child. They have done it throughout their childhoods and teen years with baby after baby. That can't be good. 

A decade or two ago there were weight restriction on kids' school backpacks issued because of possible later orthopedic issues. I'd think a baby or toddler is even harder on backs because of how the weight is carried.

God I have only had one toddler to carry around and the Sciatica was almost crippling. 

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17 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm 100% certain Derrick, Cathy, Ben & his parents had NO IDEA about Josh and what he did to Jill & Jessa.  Jessa MAY have told Ben, but I don't know that Jill would have said anything because she wouldn't have wanted to go against her parents demands. I'm sure finding out that her DIL had been sexually abused by her big brother & her parents essentially brushed it under the rug would be enough to push any parent to do everything to get your kid away from those crazy ass people. 

When would Jessa have told Ben though? I mean - before they were married - they were never alone. Even in texts or calls or whatever there was always the chance someone would over hear and I can't imagine JBoob & the Missus being on board with that kind of discussion (talking about body parts etc would likely cause them to yell Nike). 

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11 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I think that is a bit reaching. Jill and Derick making lots of independent and good choices for themselves. And the praise is well deserved! But soon enough they are going to remind us they are still pro-life, anti-LGBQT, pro-Trump, probably pro-corporal punishment and still enforcing gender roles and we will be back to jump on them. They just don’t spill it out that obvious at the moment.
I think Jill was lucky that Derick seemingly realised things are not going well and probably influenced by his mother and family saw some light. Otherwise she would have been pretty content living just as her siblings. Maybe not as happy but I doubt she would had the tools to realise that. 

So, while there is definitely progress we shouldn’t start turning around and interpret all their actions with a positive spin. Next someone tries to explain Derick‘s attacks on Jazz as the only way to piss TLC off enough to get released out of JB contracts. They have grown. They left some harmful things behind and as far as I am concerned hold on to some harmful mindsets. What I like most about this is that they are a great example that real therapy is helping and that marriages might go through a rough time, especially if you marry fast, but that this can be overcome and without the women taking all the blame.

 

I mean, I get that those beliefs are incredibly harmful and wrong, but I guess I just don't see those as necessarily being related to fundamentalism.  Those seem pretty run-of-the-mill American-conservative stances.  Yes it's problematic, but it's a mainstream problematic.

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On 9/10/2020 at 6:44 AM, Snarkasarus Rex said:

This is one of the major issues I have with Derick.  I understand him feeling betrayed, since Boob took advantage of him when he was emotionally vulnerable.  But his bitching and moaning about abuse is always directed at *Boob*, not Josh.  I don't think Jill's abuse is what he's upset about at all...he's salty because Boob owned *him*.  

I 100% agree.

14 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I think that is a bit reaching. Jill and Derick making lots of independent and good choices for themselves. And the praise is well deserved! But soon enough they are going to remind us they are still pro-life, anti-LGBQT, pro-Trump, probably pro-corporal punishment and still enforcing gender roles and we will be back to jump on them. They just don’t spill it out that obvious at the moment.
I think Jill was lucky that Derick seemingly realised things are not going well and probably influenced by his mother and family saw some light. Otherwise she would have been pretty content living just as her siblings. Maybe not as happy but I doubt she would had the tools to realise that. 

So, while there is definitely progress we shouldn’t start turning around and interpret all their actions with a positive spin. Next someone tries to explain Derick‘s attacks on Jazz as the only way to piss TLC off enough to get released out of JB contracts. They have grown. They left some harmful things behind and as far as I am concerned hold on to some harmful mindsets. What I like most about this is that they are a great example that real therapy is helping and that marriages might go through a rough time, especially if you marry fast, but that this can be overcome and without the women taking all the blame.

Jill is still the same person. A people pleaser, wanting to be the „golden child“. Therapy has probably helped her to identify harmful behaviour and mindsets, so she is able to reflect on herself and stir it in better directions sometimes. But she also has a new crowd to please and she is succeeding in that. Interesting will be if she feels strong and confident enough to go heads to heads with Derick and to maintain her point of view (you don’t have to agree on everything) or even overrule him. That would be a fantastic development for her and their family if he can take it.

My biggest hope is that they will raise their children in a loving home without emotional or physical abuse and scaring them with a future in hell. Add the value of education. If that can be achieved in this generation much is won. I doubt we will see 2ndGen move into mainstream Christianity (which in the US appears still pretty damn Fundie to me) or back away from their pro-life/anti-lgbqt mindset. That’s something I think might happen in the 3rdGen.

Lauren seems very close to her family as does Josiah (at least TLC made it look like that). Hopefully, if they maintain that closeness he can at least have a father figure that shows more appreciation and explore some different ways. The Swanson‘s seem to be doing fine financially and in terms of coping with their number oh children. Maybe that will help him to grow in that direction.

I do think they know enough about their cycle to get the standard rules. I am also convinced they know the basics of the temperature method. And I do believe they watch their cycle at least loosely one way or other. All those honeymoon babies are too much of a coincidence. Honestly, being on your period and the week after you have a very high chance to be not ovulating. So that’s about two weeks at least. But alcohol also effects the reproductive system badly- minimally but I can see why Fundies who want to procreate a lot will do everything to ensure a perfect condition. Or maybe not- otherwise they would eat a healthier diet. I believe it’s just another thing those cults use to control people, while those have something to feel superior. Nothings against being abstinent, but it’s just a superficial choice and doesn’t make you better than others.

I don’t know... I consider Derick and Jill to be mainstream evangelical Christians. Unfortunately, the majority of mainstream evangelical Christians I know are pro-life and pro-Trump. 
 

Derick and Jill have hateful views, like Cathy and any other evangelical Christian, but they are no longer fundies.

 

If it weren’t for the $, I believe Jessa would be like Jinger. I wonder why Jinger feels comfortable dressing mainstream (and probably drinking alcohol) and isn’t disowned by JB?

Edited by luv2laugh
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@luv2laugh I suspect Jinger hasn’t been disowned because she hasn’t done anything to (in JB’s eyes) damage their marketability to TLC. The pants wearing explanation formed part of the show and if she did drink alcohol I doubt it would make it into her carefully staged SM photos.

Jill & Derick are proving they don’t need the show to prosper and they have been public about their reasons and JB finds that very uncomfortable. It will be interesting to see how Joy develops- while she is using her YouTube videos to share her life I wonder if she’ll do occasional TV appearances just to keep her parents on board.

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On 9/10/2020 at 7:01 PM, SassyPants said:

Maybe that frontal hug was the start of their demise-?!

So Michelle was right! Frontal hugging IS dangerous! It leads to pants, noserings, birthcontrol, therapy, alcohol and public school. The horror!

If anything her reaction was to small. 

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19 hours ago, neurogirl said:

Wow! That first day of school video was really sweet. I love that the teacher read a bedtime story. I was worried Iz and Sam wouldn't really get it but they both seemed to love it and then wanted to see pictures of their dad in kindergarten. I also think it was lovely how Sam got to do a big boy thing too with official potty training start. No snark here. That was actually quite touching and I'm really proud of them. If you had told FJ when Jill got married that five years later she would be in actual therapy, have jeans and a nose ring, drink alcohol, have only 2 kids that were starting public school, hanging out with Amy, and living outside of JB's influence, we wouldn't have believed you. They are making a ton of progress. 

Rooting for Jill to go back to school with Sam as well. Girl is curious and ambitious! 

I watched the video yesterday & I agree. Jill seemed so happy and relaxed, It is such complete 180 from her hot mess, whatever the hell she was trying to do vlogging she was doing last year.   I think both her & Derrick are finding their groove. I'm not ready to forget (or forgive) what he did to Jazz Jennings, he's got a LONG way to go to make up for that, I would love to see him issue an apology to her, in private at first and then publicly if she wants him too. I'm not gonna hold my breath, but we also never thought we'd see Jilly Muffin in a bathing suit & drinking Pina Coladas. 

 

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

Does anyone have any theories why Joystin left the show?

Everyone is saying the left they show but they are still on the show, a lot. Is it just because they weren't in the promo pic or did they actually say they were done?   

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I don't think she's formally left the show, but I think they've stepped back.  Considering she didn't save the baby's birth for the show I think it has much less importance in her life now.  Is she still close with Jill?  Given that Jill was her sister mom for so long, I kinda wonder if she's trying to balance Jill's influence with her own loyalty to the family as a whole.

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