Dillards 85: Ungodly Swim Suits It's a Cruel Summer

[Giraffe]

2 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

Unfortunately I think the show reinforces their beliefs. They were super holy and then the show and TLC came and “God provided”.  

I’m sure this was how they used to think and I’m sure some still do. I assume others feel trapped, though, and would rather be free of it. I’m looking forward to where all of them will be a few years after any ongoing publicity ends. 

[SassyPants]

53 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I’d love to know how many of Jill’s siblings would follow her footsteps if they weren’t on the show anymore, either. She and Derrick are figuring out their own way and I agree with earlier posts speculating some of the others might be jealous of Jill. 
 

Jill could be a Duggar commercial: Get off the show and you too can live the life you dream of!

At the current moment, not many have the potential to have independent lives. Maybe JD and Abbie, if they both worked. The rest of the Duggar boys are hosed, unless they have hidden marketable skills, education and jobs. I’m not sure any of JB sons are willing to do the sustained hard work required to support an ever growing family. I think Ben might have the drive, but I am not sure if his work history and marketable skills would allow him to get a family supporting job, even in Arkansas. I am not sure that Jeremy would want the kind of job that his skills would offer him. In terms of the women, how many of them would want to solo care for mega numbers of kids all day, everyday, and live on the meager earnings that most of these guys would bring in? No free cars, homes, fancy coffee and IPhones? These girls aren’t circa late 80s and 90s  Michelle. If these people had to work and actually live by the tenets they verbally proclaim, there’d be fewer Duggars walking the planet. I also think if they had to solely support themselves on jobs aside from reality TV, there would be many more little ones parked at the TTH, day in and day out.

I was confident that Dillard could pull off law school. Now let’s see him get a job and support his family. I definitely think the Dillards are headed in the right direction. But I do not think that any of the Duggars(et al), aside from Austin or Abbie have the skills and inclination to support themselves or their families through their own volition. They are the only ones with marketable skills AND a current work history outside of Duggars R US , that we know of-

The rest can prove me wrong-

[Thumper]

33 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

 The rest of the Duggar boys are hosed, unless they have hidden marketable skills, education and jobs. I’m not sure any of JB sons are willing to do the sustained hard work required to support an ever growing family. 

I find it interesting how as sexist as the Duggars are they have basically made all their sons (with the exception of JD) helpless in terms of being stereotypical breadwinners. Even the favorite son-in-law (Ben) is the most dependant. JimBob is such a narcissist he didn't even give his sons the tools they need to not need him.

 

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

I’d love to know how many of Jill’s siblings would follow her footsteps if they weren’t on the show anymore, either. She and Derrick are figuring out their own way and I agree with earlier posts speculating some of the others might be jealous of Jill. 

I haven't commented much on the Dillards but count me very pleased to see both Jill and Derick making their own way and their own decisions.  I thought initially that Derick might be a good influence as far as Jill moving away from her fundie life, but was very concerned when he appeared to be chugging the Duggar koolaid all too easily in the early years.   But a lot of things have happened in those years for Derick to see through the Duggar wholesome Christian family facade, he is smart enough even if many times he showed his ass. 

It's sad to see that Jill isn't as close to her family but I am not surprised that JB curtailed things once he saw his dutiful daughter making more independent decisions some that he wouldn't agree with.  I want to say that Derick may have fueled the flames too much, normally it should be Jill to deal with her own family when it comes to issues between them but it's very possible that Jill just didn't have the emotional bandwidth to do that.   And Derick was too pissed off to remain silent.

 

[HereticHick]

If you like piña coladas
And getting off TLC
If you're not into Gothard
If you have half a brain
If you like wearing pants if you want to
And one or two kids
Then I'm the love that you've looked for
Marry me, and escape

[LillyP]

I just saw the headlines and immediately had to jump over and see if it was being talked about. 

 

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@HereticHick I love that song! The original and your take on it! 

[HereticHick]

29 minutes ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

@HereticHick I love that song! The original and your take on it! 

Thanks. People often forget that its official name is "Escape"

 

[Daisy0322]

I mean it does happen that people get insanely good jobs with no education. My husband has one. He has a high school diploma and next year will clear close to 6 figures at 27 years old. It’s a government office job and Im sure some of them would luck out if they were willing to put in the work. I think the main issue is the lack of work ethic. The girls have one - Michelle worked them to death as kids but the boys ran wild. 

[JordynDarby5]

17 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

According to my late Great Grandad, Whisky was his medicine he lived until he was 97 and he had at least a glass of whisky a day. 

So did my great-grandfather along with cigars every day. He lived until 94. His doctor always kept trying to get him to quit throughout his last twenty years saying if he did he'd live another ten years. My great-grandfather would always tell them that if they could guarantee him those ten years he'd quit both. Which of course his doctor couldn't. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

17 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

I mean it does happen that people get insanely good jobs with no education. My husband has one. He has a high school diploma and next year will clear close to 6 figures at 27 years old. It’s a government office job and Im sure some of them would luck out if they were willing to put in the work. I think the main issue is the lack of work ethic. The girls have one - Michelle worked them to death as kids but the boys ran wild. 

My son is also in this boat, a HS diploma and makes $55k a year at 22 and if he continues on this track will be pushing 6 figures by the time he's 30, this is without cost of living pay as we live in Iowa, don't really need it. He's buying a house right now. 

I don't think all the girls have anymore work ethic than the boys do. Jessa is lazy AF, Jinger isn't exactly breaking a sweat. Jana has her garden which is a lot of work but she has no real responsibility anymore, she doesn't have to work, she doesn't have to pay any bills she only has her garden and her other hobbies to do. Jill tried to work, as a midwife but wasn't allowed to get real training and then had babies and is spending time working on herself right now, which she sure as shit is entitled too after helping raise her siblings for so long. I could see Jill getting a full time job and LOVING IT when the boys are a little older. I can also see Joy working because she does, at the camp & helping Austin with construction sites, even if she's "just" cleaning them. I can tell you from experience it is back breaking work that my company charges hundreds or even thousands of dollars to do. But the other 3 aren't doing much of anything. 

 

I realize Jessa & Jinger have kids, I spent almost 10 years as a SAHM so that IS WORK, but I think most of you know what I'm getting at. 

[Not that josh's mom]

9 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

So did my great-grandfather along with cigars every day. He lived until 94. His doctor always kept trying to get him to quit throughout his last twenty years saying if he did he'd live another ten years. My great-grandfather would always tell them that if they could guarantee him those ten years he'd quit both. Which of course his doctor couldn't. 

When my FIL had to go to a care facility at 86, he was taking no medications at all. Just didn't recover strength after an illness. The care center said he could only have one egg a week for breakfast. Basically we stepped in and said let the man have his eggs. 86, no meds, what the heck is it going to hurt. He lived another 4 years with an egg for breakfast nearly every day. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

My son is also in this boat, a HS diploma and makes $55k a year at 22 and if he continues on this track will be pushing 6 figures by the time he's 30, this is without cost of living pay as we live in Iowa, don't really need it. He's buying a house right now. 

I don't think all the girls have anymore work ethic than the boys do. Jessa is lazy AF, Jinger isn't exactly breaking a sweat. Jana has her garden which is a lot of work but she has no real responsibility anymore, she doesn't have to work, she doesn't have to pay any bills she only has her garden and her other hobbies to do. Jill tried to work, as a midwife but wasn't allowed to get real training and then had babies and is spending time working on herself right now, which she sure as shit is entitled too after helping raise her siblings for so long. I could see Jill getting a full time job and LOVING IT when the boys are a little older. I can also see Joy working because she does, at the camp & helping Austin with construction sites, even if she's "just" cleaning them. I can tell you from experience it is back breaking work that my company charges hundreds or even thousands of dollars to do. But the other 3 aren't doing much of anything. 

 

I realize Jessa & Jinger have kids, I spent almost 10 years as a SAHM so that IS WORK, but I think most of you know what I'm getting at. 

Absolutely agree that many of JB’s daughters are lazy AF. And this used to really bug the s out of me. For all their sex stereotypes and boxes they put people in, the Duggar females seemed to have few useful homemaking skills or good habits. Yesterday, I called  my 85 YO mother who lives in a smoke ravaged, hotter than blazes part of CA, and she told me that she had stripped all the bedding on her bed, washed and line dried it all, flipped the mattress, moved the furniture to vacuum behind the bed, and put it all back together. She calls this her Fall and before Christmas cleaning. My dad is too old and frail to really help as he has balance issues. Do you think Michelle or Jessa have ever done anything like that? I seriously doubt it. 

[Glasgowghirl]

Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger had far too much responsibility for their ages growing up, Jana still does when it comes to raising children that are not hers. I don't blame some of them for not caring about cleaning and keeping their house tidy, when they were as teens they were cooking, cleaning and doing laundry for up to 20 people everyday. I remember the episode where Michelle announces she is expecting Jordyn and they are packing to go to NY and Jessa and Jinger are doing all the packing for the weekend trip at age 13/14, Jinger had laundry as her jurisdiction and Jessa had it before her and Michelle even bragged about them knowing around the laundry room and Wardrobe than she did, having young teens pack the clothing for 19 people for a few day's trip was a lot. Jinger and Jessa were efficient at doing it, the older ones should have packed their own stuff and Michelle or Jim Bob should have helped them pack for the younger ones. The chore swap day also showed how much more the older girls did in comparison to the girls. 

 

[LillyP]

21 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

I mean it does happen that people get insanely good jobs with no education. 

Exactly! My husband also has an insanely good job, and he never finished his degree! He actually just a few classes shy! He makes over six figures with significant bonuses (in a job this no way related to his degree field) and his job comes with A LOT of perks like international travel, private aircraft travel, and me getting to stay abroad with him for weeks at a time. That's not a "toot the horn" - just to say that there are a lot more people in these kinds of jobs/situations than people realize but we've had society spend the 10-20 years drilling kids that they need to go get that degree to have a good job. You have to put in the work, work your way up, and be dedicated. The biggest problem is lack of work ethic though. The Duggars could certainly use their pull and interests to find jobs with good pay for the COL in their area but none of them were taught to work hard. They were raised with the "buy used and saved the difference" mindset. That works for clothes and material things...but I also believe it can instill a sense of laziness because the kids have literally never worked for anything in their lives with the exception of maybe the car lot (but is that even a real thing these days?).

[luv2laugh]

I believe the family feud started even before Jill had Israel. Derick studied accounting. After having breakthrough ratings for their wedding, people magazine spreads for announcing their pregnancy, etc, Derick was learning he and Jill would not be receiving the payout - JB would. I think he challenged JB and became pissed that they were not getting money that Jill earned. I think he became interested in studying the law after reading up on how JB was/is able to get away with not paying the kids based on who receives a certain amount of publicity/ratings compared to the others.

Personally, I think Jill would've been fine with wearing a skirt, having kids every year, and not drinking alcohol. I think she has changed after the family feud. Derick probably started drinking and partaking in secular culture to fit in at law school, no longer felt accountable to JB, and Jill felt led to submit by doing the same. However, I think she is enjoying the new found freedom and starting to make up her own mind. I think she's probably mad at JB too now.

Edited September 9, 2020 by luv2laugh

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I'd imagine if she hadn't had her eyes opened to the flaws in her upbringing, she might have been relatively content to live as she was raised... but having to go on tv and defend Josh probably felt wrong even though she was being told it was right.  At that point is was probably a matter of listening to Derick's thoughts on the matter and then a lot of things came unraveled.  I can't think there are many husbands who would appreciate finding out that not only was their wife not protected from a known abuser but that she was responsible for defending him and his behavior.  IIRC Josh was pretty silent during that particular scandal, letting his sisters handle the public for him.  Disgusting, the whole thing.

[ophelia]

10 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger had far too much responsibility for their ages growing up, Jana still does when it comes to raising children that are not hers. I don't blame some of them for not caring about cleaning and keeping their house tidy, when they were as teens they were cooking, cleaning and doing laundry for up to 20 people everyday. I remember the episode where Michelle announces she is expecting Jordyn and they are packing to go to NY and Jessa and Jinger are doing all the packing for the weekend trip at age 13/14, Jinger had laundry as her jurisdiction and Jessa had it before her and Michelle even bragged about them knowing around the laundry room and Wardrobe than she did, having young teens pack the clothing for 19 people for a few day's trip was a lot. Jinger and Jessa were efficient at doing it, the older ones should have packed their own stuff and Michelle or Jim Bob should have helped them pack for the younger ones. The chore swap day also showed how much more the older girls did in comparison to the girls. 

 

That is a lot of responsibility for someone that age. I wonder how harshly the consequences were if they forgot to pack something. Just the thought of it makes me shiver. 

[Idlewild]

10 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I'd imagine if she hadn't had her eyes opened to the flaws in her upbringing, she might have been relatively content to live as she was raised... but having to go on tv and defend Josh probably felt wrong even though she was being told it was right.  At that point is was probably a matter of listening to Derick's thoughts on the matter and then a lot of things came unraveled.  I can't think there are many husbands who would appreciate finding out that not only was their wife not protected from a known abuser but that she was responsible for defending him and his behavior.  IIRC Josh was pretty silent during that particular scandal, letting his sisters handle the public for him.  Disgusting, the whole thing.

Agreed, but don’t forget Derick took a ‘donation’ from Josh and made a public video thanking him. Unless JB was out of shot with a gun to his head I think that’s some pretty screwed up thinking on Derick’s part. I accept Jill may not want him to publicly denounce Josh but going out of his way to make him look good is something else. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

Agreed, but don’t forget Derick took a ‘donation’ from Josh and made a public video thanking him. Unless JB was out of shot with a gun to his head I think that’s some pretty screwed up thinking on Derick’s part. I accept Jill may not want him to publicly denounce Josh but going out of his way to make him look good is something else. 

This is one of the major issues I have with Derick.  I understand him feeling betrayed, since Boob took advantage of him when he was emotionally vulnerable.  But his bitching and moaning about abuse is always directed at *Boob*, not Josh.  I don't think Jill's abuse is what he's upset about at all...he's salty because Boob owned *him*.  

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

This is one of the major issues I have with Derick.  I understand him feeling betrayed, since Boob took advantage of him when he was emotionally vulnerable.  But his bitching and moaning about abuse is always directed at *Boob*, not Josh.  I don't think Jill's abuse is what he's upset about at all...he's salty because Boob owned *him*.  

I think Derick is most upset with himself. The whole JB-Jill- Derick triangle happened at a very vulnerable time in Derick’s life. I truly think that Derick needed money to fund his India mission excursion, and the director of the organization he was involved with suggested approaching JB or Duggar LLC (JB could support a Godly mission to convert folks to Christianity, and at the same time get a tax write off) for his donation; making JB Derick’s prayer partner in the process. JB likely shared his activities with the family, perhaps at bible time of the couch, and ideas started to float in Jill’s head. 
 

I think if DD’s dad hadn’t died or if is mother hadn’t been ill, Derick and Jill might have never interfaced, or if they had, things might have gone very differently.  I get that they are both crunchy and had a love for mission work, but I can’t see how DD didn’t immediately see that Jill was nothing more than an indentured, dependent, poorly educated adolescent. Religious beliefs aside, Derick is smart, well traveled, literate, an Eagle Scout...how the heck did he get saddled with a Duggar. I can’t imagine the angst that Cathy feels over this entire debacle. Had she not been gravely ill, I think things would have gone very differently. 

[SassyPants]

18 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger had far too much responsibility for their ages growing up, Jana still does when it comes to raising children that are not hers. I don't blame some of them for not caring about cleaning and keeping their house tidy, when they were as teens they were cooking, cleaning and doing laundry for up to 20 people everyday. I remember the episode where Michelle announces she is expecting Jordyn and they are packing to go to NY and Jessa and Jinger are doing all the packing for the weekend trip at age 13/14, Jinger had laundry as her jurisdiction and Jessa had it before her and Michelle even bragged about them knowing around the laundry room and Wardrobe than she did, having young teens pack the clothing for 19 people for a few day's trip was a lot. Jinger and Jessa were efficient at doing it, the older ones should have packed their own stuff and Michelle or Jim Bob should have helped them pack for the younger ones. The chore swap day also showed how much more the older girls did in comparison to the girls. 

 

Treating 7 YOs as adults, and treating 16 and 20 YOs (30 in Jana’s case), like 5 YOs- The Duggar Method. 7 YOs get all the responsibilities and 30 YOs get none of the freedoms. I think in large part this is why the girls get married so young. Unfortunately, the 7 YOs never get the proper instruction as to how to do things safely and correctly, hence the kids end up not being proficient at much of anything.

[justmy2cents]

I thought Cathy became ill after Derick and Jill met. I didn’t think it had anything to do with Derick seeking out JB.

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

I thought Cathy became ill after Derick and Jill met. I didn’t think it had anything to do with Derick seeking out JB.

She was diagnosed around the same time as their engagement. I think Derick sought out JB purely for a donation that could be used to fund his mission trip. If DD’s dad hadn’t died, maybe Derick wouldn’t have needed the money for the trip, or maybe he wouldn’t have gone on the trip at all. It’s all the stuff after Cathy’s diagnosis and during treatment that might have gone differently. Look at the changes the Dillards have made in the last 3 years, since Cathy’s health has stabilized. I think she has been a positive influence in this regard. How different would their lives be if Cathy had never been ill, and had stayed a constant influence on Jill and Derick’s lives, VS JB steering the ship?

Edited September 10, 2020 by SassyPants

[justmy2cents]

Ok @SassyPants. I just remember Cathy seeming to be all in at the beginning. She even went to the TTH to give Jill something for Derick before the Nepal trip. The red flags went up after the wedding though. I completely agree that she was a big influence in them stepping away.