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Coconut Flan

Maxwell 40: Wearing Their Vests in an Apartment for Fun

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Bethy
7 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

Here are some sad thoughts from me. If Anna and Mary were married already...who would help? We don't hear about Elissa, Chelsey, and Melanie leaving their kids to help. And Melanie's oldest daughter is old enough to watch her siblings. I use to do it all the time. I'm not saying they don't care or wouldn't offer any help at all. It's just obvious that they are busy with their households. I wonder have all the little girls ever had a sleep over with their cousins 🤔 

I'm not sure anyone thought this far ahead - plus, [sarcasm font] people don't get seriously ill as long as they eat a healthy diet and exercise! This was not what was supposed to happen! (Sarcasm font off - isn't that pretty much the premise of Scamaritan? The whole "we won't pay for conditions that might have been caused by you being overweight or inactive"?)

Seriously though - Steve put the whole family in this box and I'm not really sure who would be stepping up if they didn't have The Aunts to take over, because they've isolated themselves so severely. I think I mentioned this in a previous thread, but...if they have ANY support system beyond "extended family" they haven't tipped their hand. Their primary "church" is a bunch of people in varying stages of fragility and senility in a nursing home. With the exception of John, they all work in this little family cluster. When my daughter was born the fundie-lite church we were attending at the time provided meals for us for two full weeks. I've participated in Meal Trains for co-workers who were battling cancer or had a newborn in the NICU. Christopher doesn't have any of that. For all we know, the Swift Otter thing could be completely online and the other surnameless non-Max employees could be in Florida or California, too far to do anything but send prayers and thoughts. And the timing really couldn't be worse, since even if they HAD a thriving church family, there's a freaking pandemic on and random people can't just stop by and clean or help with the kids.

In short, Steve's Master Plan (BAYBEEEZ! Then trust God and figure it out later) is only working for Christopher because all three of his sisters have been prevented from marrying and live across the yard.

As for Abby babysitting her siblings...I'm cringing a little at that. Isn't she like, eleven? Just because she's as tall as the aunts and stopped the cute crinkle-nose smile years ago doesn't make her an adult. Five younger kids - one of them a baby - is a lot. Maybe if it was just Betsy/Tina or just Drew/Benji and for only like 15 minutes, that would be okay, but...can you imagine the pressure on that child if, God forbid, there was a house fire and she was responsible to get five terrified siblings out of a burning building? I actually remember reading an article almost 30 years ago about parents who left an older siblings - in some cases, a teenager - home alone with younger siblings and CPS ended up getting involved. The article's conclusion was "What's the safe age to leave a child unattended? 18." And this was before helicopter parenting had evolved into the monstrosity that it is today. I could see Abby going over to Chris and Anna's to clean and help with the kids in the presence of an adult who's paying attention, but not straight-up babysitting for any length of time at all.

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anjulibai
Posted (edited)

 

13 minutes ago, Bethy said:

In short, Steve's Master Plan (BAYBEEEZ! Then trust God and figure it out later) is only working for Christopher because all three of his sisters have been prevented from marrying and live across the yard.

I think that Anna Marie's cancer is just another nail in the already well studded coffin that is Anna and Mary's marriage prospects. 

Edited by anjulibai
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Giraffe
6 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

 

I think that Anna Marie's cancer is just another nail in the already well studded coffin that is Anna and Mary's marriage prospects. 

I’ve thought about this too much. I can see Anna and Mary feeling genuinely grateful they’re still single. “We’re so blessed to be able to help our brother and his family in their time of need! We wouldn’t be able to do this if we were married with our own family! We’re so grateful our father has prevented us from marrying or having careers!!”

I write their imaginary words as snark, and yet they could be glad to help. In the quiet before they fall asleep they may wish for their own marriage and family but it wouldn’t surprise me if they are glad to have an open schedule to help their brothers. 

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lilith
3 hours ago, Bethy said:

I'm not sure anyone thought this far ahead - plus, [sarcasm font] people don't get seriously ill as long as they eat a healthy diet and exercise! This was not what was supposed to happen! (Sarcasm font off - isn't that pretty much the premise of Scamaritan? The whole "we won't pay for conditions that might have been caused by you being overweight or inactive"?)

Seriously though - Steve put the whole family in this box and I'm not really sure who would be stepping up if they didn't have The Aunts to take over, because they've isolated themselves so severely. I think I mentioned this in a previous thread, but...if they have ANY support system beyond "extended family" they haven't tipped their hand. Their primary "church" is a bunch of people in varying stages of fragility and senility in a nursing home. With the exception of John, they all work in this little family cluster. When my daughter was born the fundie-lite church we were attending at the time provided meals for us for two full weeks. I've participated in Meal Trains for co-workers who were battling cancer or had a newborn in the NICU. Christopher doesn't have any of that. For all we know, the Swift Otter thing could be completely online and the other surnameless non-Max employees could be in Florida or California, too far to do anything but send prayers and thoughts. And the timing really couldn't be worse, since even if they HAD a thriving church family, there's a freaking pandemic on and random people can't just stop by and clean or help with the kids.

In short, Steve's Master Plan (BAYBEEEZ! Then trust God and figure it out later) is only working for Christopher because all three of his sisters have been prevented from marrying and live across the yard.

As for Abby babysitting her siblings...I'm cringing a little at that. Isn't she like, eleven? Just because she's as tall as the aunts and stopped the cute crinkle-nose smile years ago doesn't make her an adult. Five younger kids - one of them a baby - is a lot. Maybe if it was just Betsy/Tina or just Drew/Benji and for only like 15 minutes, that would be okay, but...can you imagine the pressure on that child if, God forbid, there was a house fire and she was responsible to get five terrified siblings out of a burning building? I actually remember reading an article almost 30 years ago about parents who left an older siblings - in some cases, a teenager - home alone with younger siblings and CPS ended up getting involved. The article's conclusion was "What's the safe age to leave a child unattended? 18." And this was before helicopter parenting had evolved into the monstrosity that it is today. I could see Abby going over to Chris and Anna's to clean and help with the kids in the presence of an adult who's paying attention, but not straight-up babysitting for any length of time at all.

18????? My 16 and 15 year olds are both fully capable of watching the 4 and 13 year olds for a few hours, the 16 year old for the entire evening. Kids that age have and care for babies of their own! 
 

I wouldn’t leave Abby in charge of all her siblings but she could probably watch her sisters for an hour or two, considering she’s got more than half a dozen adult family members on the street.

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HoneyBunny

You know, I’ve been worried quite a bit about Anna today. I didn’t realize that her cancer was HER-2 positive until her most recent post. That’s a very aggressive form of breast cancer. The 10-year survival rate for breast cancer is about 80%, but for HER-2 positive it’s more like 50%. That must be scarier than heck for a woman with 6 young kids. I’m also worried about her flying halfway across the country in a weakened state during COVID.  Very worried. 

I don’t know why I’m so caught up in this, other than I hate to see anyone suffer and would really hate to see those 6 kids grow up mother-less. 

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NoseyNellie
35 minutes ago, HoneyBunny said:

You know, I’ve been worried quite a bit about Anna today. I didn’t realize that her cancer was HER-2 positive until her most recent post. That’s a very aggressive form of breast cancer. 

 

I believe this is the first time it has been mentioned.  A friend was just diagnosed with stage 1 and has been going through ALL the appointments.  She got her results back that her BRCA is negative than heavens!  She is going in for a lumpectomy for the single spot.. Dr are pushing her for full mastectomy.  My concern is whether Anna has had the genetic testing?  Especially being Her+.. This is not the time to mess around... Time to be seriously proactive.   

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Maggie Mae
3 hours ago, Bethy said:

In short, Steve's Master Plan (BAYBEEEZ! Then trust God and figure it out later) is only working for Christopher because all three of his sisters have been prevented from marrying and live across the yard.

I'm sure if Anna and Mary were married, they would work something else out - if Anna and Mary had their own kids, they might haul their babies over to Chris's. Chris's kids might be split up among the families. Or everyone would take turns, maybe Sarah/Teri would take on more responsibility. 

I find it weird that Chris's backyard backs up to the Main Maxwell Home and there aren't kids over constantly. Or maybe there are and we just don't hear about it. 

3 hours ago, Bethy said:

 I actually remember reading an article almost 30 years ago about parents who left an older siblings - in some cases, a teenager - home alone with younger siblings and CPS ended up getting involved. The article's conclusion was "What's the safe age to leave a child unattended? 18." 

Ok, 18 seems ridiculous. I think most states say 12, and obviously some kids are more responsible and/or easy to manage than others. 

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MamaJunebug
7 hours ago, usmcmom said:

*raises hand* Pretty sure that was me; and I see your point. 

Thanks - I think all the Maxmares deserve the benefit of at least speculation on an alternate motivation, if not exactly “the benefit of the doubt.”  I saw your point, too, in the event that Melanie just felt like, I dunno, running out to meet her BFFs for some wine ... 😉 

 

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nvmbr02

My oldest watched her siblings at 11, not for a whole evening and there were only 2 of them, but for a quick run to the store or while my husband and I went on a walk around the neighborhood. At 12 she took the red cross babysitter course and was CPR certified and started watching neighborhood kids. When she started watching her siblings we made sure there was a neighbor home that she could call if needed and when she first started babysitting for other families in the neighborhood I made she I was home so she could call me if needed. 

She's turning 17 now and a senior in high school. If the occasion arose for her to be home for a night or two we would let her stay home. I don't think I would leave her siblings with her yet, but that is more because she is very busy with her own life and I wouldn't expect her to have to take off time from work or school obligations to care for them. She's capable though and in roughly a year she'll be moving out to go to college. 

I think Abby would be fine watching her siblings for a short time, but there are 5 of them  which is a lot for anyone and Debbie is still pretty young. I think that either Melanie was going to be gone for awhile and couldn't take any of the kids with her or Abby was the one needing to go.It is also possible that whatever arrangements had been made for awhile now, before Anna and Mary took over for Chris's family and since there were enough people around to make it work they stuck with the plan. 

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Bethy
3 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I'm sure if Anna and Mary were married, they would work something else out - if Anna and Mary had their own kids, they might haul their babies over to Chris's. Chris's kids might be split up among the families. Or everyone would take turns, maybe Sarah/Teri would take on more responsibility. 

I find it weird that Chris's backyard backs up to the Main Maxwell Home and there aren't kids over constantly. Or maybe there are and we just don't hear about it. 

Ok, 18 seems ridiculous. I think most states say 12, and obviously some kids are more responsible and/or easy to manage than others. 

Yeah...I didn't say I agreed, but that was the "if you want to be absolutely safe" conclusion the article drew. Obviously as this is nearly thirty years in the past I don't remember all the specifics, and I have no idea whether any of these people were already under scrutiny with CPS when they left their kids home - just that "18 is the only perfectly safe age" was the conclusion.

As to "if Anna and Mary were married," we all know that the patriarchal answer is, they don't live in Kansas anymore, because they've gone to live in their husbands' hometowns. Likely one of the many reasons Steve hasn't permitted such a thing. I guess Teri and Sarah would have to step up more. Parceling out the kids to the different "extended family" homes would create a less enormous task as each household would absorb only one or two extra kids but can you imagine the trauma on those poor children? First Mom flies away and they don't see her anymore, then they go to a different house (where I'd be willing to wager they haven't spent an awful lot of time) with different rules (hello, frumpers tucked inside the snow pants!) stripped of the siblings they've been with since birth.

On the subject of the backyard and visiting Steve/Teri, remember again that we only see the tiny curated snippets they give us. Casually trotting across the backyard for a cookie or a hug or to play a game would be the norm for just about everybody else everywhere, but given how tightly-scheduled everything in Maxhell is, I could imagine the grands stopping by and literally getting told, "No, we're polishing cupboards today. Your time slot is next Tuesday. See you then!"

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Bethy
4 hours ago, HoneyBunny said:

You know, I’ve been worried quite a bit about Anna today. I didn’t realize that her cancer was HER-2 positive until her most recent post. That’s a very aggressive form of breast cancer. The 10-year survival rate for breast cancer is about 80%, but for HER-2 positive it’s more like 50%. That must be scarier than heck for a woman with 6 young kids. I’m also worried about her flying halfway across the country in a weakened state during COVID.  Very worried. 

I don’t know why I’m so caught up in this, other than I hate to see anyone suffer and would really hate to see those 6 kids grow up mother-less. 

Yes, there was a lot that concerned me in her last post. The unaccounted-for lump on her wrist, needing a baseline brain scan, tumor markers rising DURING chemo, the HER-2 thing. And also the fact that she's presumably fighting this with a fake substitute for insurance that prefers to take a casual "wait and see" approach with confirmed DCIS cases because they "probably" won't escalate doesn't make me confident that she's getting even the bare minimum of standard care, much less fighting this thing with every treatment available.

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CyborgKin

"Ellie, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

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PsyD2013

Given the seriousness of Anna Marie's illness and the family's lack of insurance would she qualify for Medicare?  If she did would Steve allow Chris and Anna Marie to access it?

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Coconut Flan
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PsyD2013 said:

Given the seriousness of Anna Marie's illness and the family's lack of insurance would she qualify for Medicare?  If she did would Steve allow Chris and Anna Marie to access it?

No, seriousness of what you have isn't a factor in qualifying for Medicare.  You have to have worked and be blind, disabled, or aged or be the spouse or widow(er) of someone who qualifies(d).  Anna Marie has never worked in a paying and contributing job.  

Edited by Coconut Flan

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Palimpsest
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PsyD2013 said:

Given the seriousness of Anna Marie's illness and the family's lack of insurance would she qualify for Medicare?  If she did would Steve allow Chris and Anna Marie to access it?

You are probably confusing Medicare with Medicaid.  It's OK, a lot of people do.  

This is the short and simple explanation. 

  •  Medicare:  Coverage for seniors (65+) who have worked and and paid into SS (and their spouses if the spouse never worked). And coverage also for those with specific disabilities <65.  
  • Medicaid:  Safety net coverage for individuals or families who have extremely low incomes.  We'd need to look up KS eligibility requirements because it varies by state as to what is covered.

Given a true catastrophic illness, like Anna Marie's, and even with decent health insurance probably every single one of us could find out that we are eligible for Medicaid.  

Scamaritan coverage is sadly lacking for catastrophic illnesses, as I expect C and AM are discovering.  I expect they could, or soon will, meet the poverty level requirement for Medicaid due to out of pocket expenses.  Whether they accept it is another issue.  

I'm way behind on the Maxwell threads but the prognosis doesn't look good for Anna Marie.  Sad.

Edited by Palimpsest
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Giraffe
Posted (edited)

I’m sad hearing some of you say a brain scan isn’t typical. I was surprised when I read it because I’ve known a couple people close to me who’ve gone through chemo and  either of them had a brain scan. This is sounding really bad. 

On behalf of her kids, I’m pissed she didn’t induce at the earliest date and have a radical mastectomy! I wonder how long they’ve known it was HER-2.

Edited by Giraffe
Removing extra word

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church_of_dog

In California at least (CA has their own version of Medicaid, called Medi-Cal), there are two versions, one of which has income only as its criteria, not assets.

I know this because I qualify for it.  I have assets, real estate, savings accounts, etc.  But very little income.  I got moved into Medi-Cal from my previous BCBS coverage without even my having a choice!

I wonder if, by filing taxes separately or some similar trick (short of filing for divorce), Anna Marie could qualify as well.

Not that doing so would fit into her or headship's belief systems...

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Giraffe
2 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

I wonder if, by filing taxes separately or some similar trick (short of filing for divorce), Anna Marie could qualify as well.

Not that doing so would fit into her or headship's belief systems...

If he gets desperate enough Chris may magically become independent from the fathership and start making decisions that are best for his wife, regardless of their prior belief system. 

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PsyD2013

I do hope that Chris grows a pair and asserts his independence from the Stevehovah ship.  I doubt he will.  Anna Marie's diagnosis/prognosis will be accepted as God's will.  Wives are expendable in the fundie world.  There is an older fundie maiden waiting to be married to a pious widower.  I truly hope this is not the case.  Anna Marie is my favorite Maxwell. 

 

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browngrl

Where I work, people tend to get whole body imaging prior to treatment for staging purposes (NB might not need whole body imaging if the first test done already shows metastatic disease). After that the oncologists re image the areas where tumour was found to look for change post treatment or they image the area of concern if symptoms arise. It is hard to tell what Anna's doctor is thinking without knowing the medical details but I do hope it is not because of new symptoms. Disease that progresses during active treatment is not good. 

 

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Giraffe
3 minutes ago, PsyD2013 said:

I do hope that Chris grows a pair and asserts his independence from the Stevehovah ship.  I doubt he will.  Anna Marie's diagnosis/prognosis will be accepted as God's will.  Wives are expendable in the fundie world.  There is an older fundie maiden waiting to be married to a pious widower.  I truly hope this is not the case.  Anna Marie is my favorite Maxwell. 

 

Tragically your prediction is more Max-realistic than mine. I can see one of “the girls” moving in with Chris to care for the kids until he finds a new wife. Hopefully Anna beats this, but I’m not hopeful anymore. 

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Palimpsest
9 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

I wonder if, by filing taxes separately or some similar trick (short of filing for divorce), Anna Marie could qualify as well.with

Not that doing so would fit into her or headship's belief systems...

Yes, MassHealth is similar to Medi-Cal and they are the gold standard where Medicaid is concerned.  Not all states have as decent coverage.

If their family income is low enough (and with all those kids) no tricks or divorces are required.  They could apply as a family.  We have no idea how much Chris earns from his employment with Maxwell companies, wedding pics, and lawn mowing gigs.  But in most states you can own your house and still get Medicaid.  

Medicaid eligibility is horrendously complicated.  So is "spend down" to Medicaid. Here's MassHealth:  https://www.mass.gov/how-to/apply-for-masshealth-the-health-safety-net-or-the-childrens-medical-security-plan

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MamaJunebug
18 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I’ve thought about this too much. I can see Anna and Mary feeling genuinely grateful they’re still single. “We’re so blessed to be able to help our brother and his family in their time of need! We wouldn’t be able to do this if we were married with our own family! We’re so grateful our father has prevented us from marrying or having careers!!”

I write their imaginary words as snark, and yet they could be glad to help. In the quiet before they fall asleep they may wish for their own marriage and family but it wouldn’t surprise me if they are glad to have an open schedule to help their brothers. 

At the Maxshow 8 or so years ago (Tina was on the way but Melanie hadn’t announced), I observed Anna and Mary  absolutely delighted  to play with 3-ish Abby. Amazing to me: never as a teen did I get such joy from interacting with a child. A & M would’ve been ... 13 & 17? -ish? 

Whether it came to them naturally or was foisted upon them by lack of any other amusement, they do seem genuinely to love littles and spending time with them. 

Large amounts of Maxercise might help keep them too tired to notice any libidinous  feelings, so , ego needs marriage? ... win? Win?-win? 

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PennySycamore

@Giraffe,  the old radical mastectomy is really not done anymore since a number of studies have shown that less invasive -and less disfiguring- surgeries have results as good as the radical mastectomy which removes not only the breast, but the underlying chest muscles as well.  A simple mastectomy is much more often performed, possibly with the addition of removal of the axillary lymph ndes.  

If you've never seen the HBO special with Tig Notaro where she tastes off her top and reveals her simple mastectomies of both breasts, you should look for it on YouTube.  You ought to be able to find that clip anyway if not the whole special.  

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Palimpsest
36 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

If he gets desperate enough Chris may magically become independent from the fathership and start making decisions that are best for his wife, regardless of their prior belief system. 

Actually I've been wondering whether this is a wake-up call for the Fathership too.  As in how his religious nuttery and restriction of educational options for his children may have come back to haunt him.  If Scamaritan is proving to be a bust for C and AM perhaps Steve won't stand in the way of anyone switching to another form of insurance or accepting Medicaid.  

But if they do they won't tell anyone!

Steve Maxwell has always been as bourgeois as hell.  He's also very much "do as I say, not as I do."  He also keeps a lot of things hidden from his followers and lies to them by omission all the time.

I'll eat my hat if Steve is not on Medicare himself.  Teri turns 65 next month and will be eligible then as Steve's spouse..  I expect Steve has taken full advantage of all his veteran's benefits too.  Steve has a university degree, worked a corporate job, and paid into SS before he was called to set up his for-profit "ministry."  And he is very clear that he pays his taxes.  I expect the rest of the family does too.

Steve is no SovCit.  He's more of law-abiding control freak with rigid beliefs and a very small following of true believers outside the family.  He's way too strict for most Fundies.

 

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