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Maxwell 39: Like Sands Through an Hour Glass, so Are the Vests of Our Lives

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Tatar-tot
Posted (edited)

The definition of Spinster:

spin·ster

/ˈspinstər/

noun

an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage.

In the world they live in they fit that definition to a T. 

Edited by Tatar-tot

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SassyPants
1 minute ago, Tatar-tot said:

The definition of Spinster:

spin·ster

/ˈspinstər/

noun

an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage.

In the world they live in they fit that definition to a T. 

Certainly, Sarah, and at this point, the only person who can help Sarah change her life’s trajectory, if she so chooses, is Sarah.When a person is not being obviously abused, and I’m not sure we see enough of SM’s life to know otherwise, there comes a point where I no longer feel obligated to feel sorry for another’s plight. Sarah has reached that point for me. Life ITRW is hard. Most people Sarah’s age have dealt with some hard circumstances and have far more responsibilities than SM may likely ever have. At least the Maxwells no longer have a huge audience that is soaking up their patriarchal, misogynistic BS. I loathe that some of these folks’ eff’d up methods get any sort of public traction at all!

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Melissa1977
45 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Certainly, Sarah, and at this point, the only person who can help Sarah change her life’s trajectory, if she so chooses, is Sarah.When a person is not being obviously abused, and I’m not sure we see enough of SM’s life to know otherwise, there comes a point where I no longer feel obligated to feel sorry for another’s plight. Sarah has reached that point for me. Life ITRW is hard. Most people Sarah’s age have dealt with some hard circumstances and have far more responsibilities than SM may likely ever have. At least the Maxwells no longer have a huge audience that is soaking up their patriarchal, misogynistic BS. I loathe that some of these folks’ eff’d up methods get any sort of public traction at all!

Some people are brainwashed to an extreme that cannot break free no matter what. Some are scared, mistreated and abused to the point that keep submissive for years or decades after the abuse stops. And definitely, mental abuse can be more powerful than physical one. Not saying it's Sarah's case! But some people just cannot choose and change their lives, as a blind person cannot choose to see.

Can Sarah change her life? It's impossible to know if she can or if she wants to. She may be very comfortable in her current life. Or maybe she would like a change but feel that she's not strong enough to do it. Or a mix of both. I don't feel pity for her. Her life looks OK to me. Dull and a bit depressive... but many people have worse lives.

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HoneyBunny
3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I agree - and every time I read one I think of Trump as it so similar to what he does.

Except for LazyLori. I stand by that one. There has never before been a more appropriate alliteration.

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HoneyBunny
8 hours ago, Botkinetti said:

My sister survived 2 types of cancer. She showed her cheerful and brave face to most of the world. I got her times of being so scared she could barely catch her breath, intense anger at having to go through everything and sorrow about what her kids were having to live with. I’m glad I was there for her.

I truly cannot imagine the toll  it would take on anyone to have to be endlessly calm and accepting and never reveal any doubts  . I so hope Anna has someone around to listen to her and allow her room to express anything she is feeling.

I’m glad you were there for your sister, too. When I went through breast cancer in 2017, every person I came in contact with remarked on my resilience and upbeat attitude. They obviously didn’t know about my middle of the night sobbing sessions sitting on the toilet with a towel jammed in my mouth to muffle the sound.

No one knows how they’re going to react until they go through something that scary. Right or wrong, I really felt I had to keep it together for my husband and my (then) 86-year old mom. I didn’t find out until a year later that my husband did his crying in the shower. We worked so hard at being strong for each other. 
 

But, as Nietzsche said:  That which does not kill us makes us stronger.

Six months later we were in Hawaii when they had the incoming missile emergency alert. We went through about 15 minutes thinking that we’d be dead any minute. And all I could think was “I went through breast cancer just to die THIS way?” I was way more pissed than terrorized. Cancer had made me so much stronger. 

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nausicaa
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

The definition of Spinster:

spin·ster

/ˈspinstər/

noun

an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage.

In the world they live in they fit that definition to a T. 

Isn't it disingenuous to act as if that term has no negative connotations to it? How many of you would refer to a coworker as a "spinster" in front of HR? (Also, are Mary and Anna "older women"?)

Let's be real, people aren't using it in the literal sense any more than people saying someone is gay mean to suggest that person is happy. It's also a nickname that focuses solely on their married status as if that's the definitive aspect of their lives. 

If some male fundie called Taylor Swift a spinster, we'd be either laughing at his ridiculousness or losing our shit over his sexism. 

Edited by nausicaa

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Caroline
1 hour ago, HoneyBunny said:

I’m glad you were there for your sister, too. When I went through breast cancer in 2017, every person I came in contact with remarked on my resilience and upbeat attitude. They obviously didn’t know about my middle of the night sobbing sessions sitting on the toilet with a towel jammed in my mouth to muffle the sound.

No one knows how they’re going to react until they go through something that scary. Right or wrong, I really felt I had to keep it together for my husband and my (then) 86-year old mom. I didn’t find out until a year later that my husband did his crying in the shower. We worked so hard at being strong for each other. 
 

But, as Nietzsche said:  That which does not kill us makes us stronger.

Six months later we were in Hawaii when they had the incoming missile emergency alert. We went through about 15 minutes thinking that we’d be dead any minute. And all I could think was “I went through breast cancer just to die THIS way?” I was way more pissed than terrorized. Cancer had made me so much stronger. 

My best friend died nine years ago of breast cancer.  She was a devout born-again Christian who finally realized it was not necessary to save me to be my friend.  One night she sat in my car after we had seen a movie together and told me how scared she was.  She was a nurse and knew that she only had months to live.  I was stunned at the moment and said that I had always envied her in a  way because in her faith she believed that Jesus was literally sitting beside her through bad times.  She admitted that night that she didn't feel his presence at the moment, and she was as frightened as any normal human about dying.  She was only 52 and had a lived a lifetime of real challenges.  Cancer was her final challenge.  I miss her so much still and am grateful that we found a way to communicate despite our huge religious differences.  That's because she was unusually open-minded, and that's the difference between her kind of evangelism and the narrow-minded types we discuss here.  She is the only reason that I give others of her belief system a chance. As soon as they expose the ugliness and hypocrisy  of a Jill or a Bro Gary or a Tom Mills I quit.  

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Tatar-tot
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Isn't it disingenuous to act as if that term has no negative connotations to it? How many of you would refer to a coworker as a "spinster" in front of HR? (Also, are Mary and Anna "older women"?)

Let's be real, people aren't using it in the literal sense any more than people saying someone is gay mean to suggest that person is happy. It's also a nickname that focuses solely on their married status as if that's the definitive aspect of their lives. 

If some male fundie called Taylor Swift a spinster, we'd be either laughing at his ridiculousness or losing our shit over his sexism. 

Sorry but Steve turned those 3 young women into Spinsters.  They slave away for their brothers caring for their children, clean their parents home & yard, and share scripture at the nursing home with the elderly.  To spice things up they do yard work at their grandmothers.  
 

Yup, they are spinsters.  It is sad.  It is the outcome of Teri and Steve’s screwed up parenting.  The girls had 2 career paths:  housewife or spinster.  Apparently spinster was they road taken.   We need Robert Frost to write a poem or two.  On second thought, Emily Dickinson might be a better choice.

Edited by Tatar-tot
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PennySycamore

@Tatar-tot,  I'm glad that your niece survived for 10 years with brain cancer.  It was 10 more years that her parents and you got to spend with her.  Doctors are making great strides in the treatment of brain cancers.  My sister wore an Optune device on her head for most of the three years.  When she started that therapy. Optune was considered experimental and insurance would often not pay for it.  It had to be paid out-of-pocket to the tune of $15K/month.  By the time she was finished with Optune was not considered experimental and insurance, including Medicare,  usually paid for it.  An Optune is not a cure, but it can give a glioblastoma patient more years and those years can be of fairly good quality.  There have been a few patients that have responded positively to polio vaccinations.  There are other treatments in clinical trials.  Glioblastoma Awareness Day is sometime this month.  

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thoughtful
11 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Thank you!  Ahh, that took me right back to some happy times. ❤️

This thread title, and seeing some recent Alfred Hitchcock episodes Carey was in, has had it running through my mind.

What's weird is I don't know how I know it! I must have heard it many times in my childhood, because it's totally ingrained in my mind, but I didn't watch the show, nor did anybody in my household. All I can think is that it came on right after something my Mom watched regularly (Concentration? Password?), and we hadn't changed the channel or turned off the TV yet.

 

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church_of_dog
1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

This thread title, and seeing some recent Alfred Hitchcock episodes Carey was in, has had it running through my mind.

What's weird is I don't know how I know it! I must have heard it many times in my childhood, because it's totally ingrained in my mind, but I didn't watch the show, nor did anybody in my household. All I can think is that it came on right after something my Mom watched regularly (Concentration? Password?), and we hadn't changed the channel or turned off the TV yet.

 

I know lots of tv intros, theme songs or other classic symbolism, not from ever having seen the shows, but from the spoofs in the early years of Saturday Night Live. :my_blush:

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Exchange Atheist
Posted (edited)
On 6/27/2020 at 1:08 PM, CyborgKin said:

If you enjoy snarking on Summer with the Moodys, you may get a kick out of Afternoon with the Wilisons etc

This is so good, thank you for the recommendation! I just got to the last published chapter and can’t wait for more. Love the explorations of gender and pronouns, and the diary entries of one of the children are amazing (trying not to spoil anything in case someone else wants to start reading). Do we have a thread for discussing fundie related fiction? 

Edited by Exchange Atheist

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MamaJunebug
12 hours ago, thoughtful said:

This thread title, and seeing some recent Alfred Hitchcock episodes Carey was in, has had it running through my mind.

What's weird is I don't know how I know it! I must have heard it many times in my childhood, because it's totally ingrained in my mind, but I didn't watch the show, nor did anybody in my household. All I can think is that it came on right after something my Mom watched regularly (Concentration? Password?), and we hadn't changed the channel or turned off the TV yet.

 

Concentration!

Password!

You are bringing the happies, today!!! Allen Ludden was so cute. If they’d had kids’ versions of those shows, I would’ve been relentless in asking Big Mama to get me on as a contestant! 

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PennySycamore

Alll this talk of Concentration and Password set me to looking those shows on Wikipedia.  Allen Ludden was the host of Password while Hugh Downs was the original host of Concentration.  I seem to remember that Concentration came on in the morning and Password in the afternoon so probably it was Password that we remember coming on before Days.    Another show that Allen Ludden hosted that I loved was the GE College Bowl.  Those kids were as smart as a tree full of owls!  College Bowl was aired late Sunday afternoons.  

Allen, of course, was married to Betty White.  They met when she was a contestant on Password.  She turned him down twice when he proposed.  The third time was the charm.  After Allen died of stomach cancer, Betty told Larry King that she'd never remarry because she'd had the best.  Live long and prosper, Betty!

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erunerune
On 7/2/2020 at 11:41 AM, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

The license for my first marriage listed me as a spinster, at 18 years old, pissed me off big time.  I don’t know if it’s still this way, but it was the legal term way back then.  I hope they’ve changed it.

Mine did too (at age 24). We got married in Jamaica 🇯🇲 tho so that was just the word for “hasn’t been married before.” My husband got the scandalous title “divorcee.” Shocking!

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smittykins
4 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Concentration!

Password!

You are bringing the happies, today!!! Allen Ludden was so cute. If they’d had kids’ versions of those shows, I would’ve been relentless in asking Big Mama to get me on as a contestant! 

Match Game!

I wasn’t born yet when  the original 1960s version debuted(and only three when it ended in 1969), but I was a devout watcher of the 70s edition.  Although the 1990 revamp eventually grew on me, I haven’t seen the current one.  Give me Gene, Charles, Brett and Richard any day.

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ElizaB

There is a post up about how Anna has taken over Anna and Christopher's garden for them. Say what you will about the Maxwell family but not everyone can have the fortune to have a family who will be that much help to you in a difficult time. Teri is homeschooling their kids. Anna and Mary are cooking and providing around the clock childcare. Now Anna is taking care of their huge garden. I know these ladies may not have jobs or and other things to do; however, they are doing a ton of work for Chris and Anna's family.

**On another note I used no nicknames for either Anna but I think you could decipher who I am talking about using the context. 

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nausicaa
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

Sorry but Steve turned those 3 young women into Spinsters.  They slave away for their brothers caring for their children, clean their parents home & yard, and share scripture at the nursing home with the elderly.  To spice things up they do yard work at their grandmothers.  
 

Yup, they are spinsters.  It is sad.  It is the outcome of Teri and Steve’s screwed up parenting.  The girls had 2 career paths:  housewife or spinster.  Apparently spinster was they road taken.   We need Robert Frost to write a poem or two.  On second thought, Emily Dickinson might be a better choice.

I'm trying to follow your argument here:

Your first post copy and pasted the definition of "spinster," implying that it is a neutral appellation and I'm overreacting.

In this subsequent post you are claiming that the Maxwell daughters are indeed spinsters because they slave away for others and have no lives and "it is sad." So now you agree that the term "spinster" is derogatory?

Therefore, if that's the case and we agree it's sad what Steve did to them, why should these three daughters be mocked for their father's shitty choices? And why are we propagating sexist, outmoded terms like "spinster" on a forum created to criticize sexist, outmoded beliefs?

I'm not trying to be the language police, but I wish you guys would at least be honest and consistent about what you're doing. You are making fun of and looking down on Sarah, Anna, and Mary for being unmarried. 

Edited by nausicaa

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AllisonWndrland

In the post about Mary helping Jesse move there is something so important on Mary's t-shirt that Sarah blurred it out. It looks like a church camp or missions shirt to me, just based on experience, but I can't see enough to find a match online. Anna's t-shirt in the new Christopher garden post looks very similar but the angle is bad. Anyone have any ideas? 

Jesse and Anna could be attending Countryside Baptist in Overland Park. If that's true, it's a church with a variety of ministry programs, a Christmas event, etc. If that is their church, I have a new guess as to the source of Steve's recent ire.

Overland Park is an apartment-rich area that's still easy to reach from Leavenworth (prior to the pandemic, I commuted to Overland Park for work every day). Despite the families saying the newlyweds live in Kansas City, OP is a safe bet for location as people tend to refer to the entire metro as "Kansas City" and one that makes sense if they're not buying a new home right away.  

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Granwych
On 7/2/2020 at 2:24 PM, Hane said:

What did the bandleader name his daughters?

Anna one, Anna two, Anna three!

I’ll see myself out.

Oh hell no, you can’t go anywhere except to the prayer auditorium with the rest of us irreverent lovelies!

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MaryatHome
1 hour ago, AllisonWndrland said:

In the post about Mary helping Jesse move there is something so important on Mary's t-shirt that Sarah blurred it out. It looks like a church camp or missions shirt to me, just based on experience, but I can't see enough to find a match online. Anna's t-shirt in the new Christopher garden post looks very similar but the angle is bad. Anyone have any ideas? 

Jesse and Anna could be attending Countryside Baptist in Overland Park. If that's true, it's a church with a variety of ministry programs, a Christmas event, etc. If that is their church, I have a new guess as to the source of Steve's recent ire.

Overland Park is an apartment-rich area that's still easy to reach from Leavenworth (prior to the pandemic, I commuted to Overland Park for work every day). Despite the families saying the newlyweds live in Kansas City, OP is a safe bet for location as people tend to refer to the entire metro as "Kansas City" and one that makes sense if they're not buying a new home right away.  

My bet is on Shawnee or Olathe, maybe western Lenexa.  Technically Countryside is in OP, but it's just spitting distance from Olathe.  The K-7/435 corridor gives them easy access to JCCC (thinking that Anna might be wanting to take classes), the fathership, and the church.  I'm sure that a lot of Jesse's work can be done remotely, but they'll still need to make the pilgrimage sometime.  And they sure aren't going to live in the Dotte, right? 

I'm guessing that he probably got 150-165K out of the Leavenworth house, knowing (ish) the neighborhood, so options for buying in the KC area with the cash he has on hand are going to be limited, to say the least.  He could use that cash to make a substantial down payment on a place, but it won't be free and clear by any stretch of the imagination, unless he goes further north and east into Wyandotte County (KS) or out into Tonganoxie (south of Leavenworth, and even then it won't be great. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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AllisonWndrland
23 minutes ago, MaryatHome said:

"unless he goes further north and east into Wyandotte County (KS) or out into Tonganoxie (south of Leavenworth, and even then it won't be great. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Shawnee's housing market is wild right now. A good friend recently sold her house in 3 days, above asking. Her new neighborhood had at least 3 houses up for sale earlier this week. It would be a good place for them to land. Lots of very young families there, too. 

Wyandotte would also be good. The Legends development caused so much growth at I70 and 435, plus they would be minutes from Leavenworth. Chelsy has posted about shopping at The Legends in the past. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up near there, either. 

Regardless, I think anything that gives them room to breathe and see a larger world away from Steve is good. 

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MaryatHome
32 minutes ago, AllisonWndrland said:

Shawnee's housing market is wild right now. A good friend recently sold her house in 3 days, above asking. Her new neighborhood had at least 3 houses up for sale earlier this week. It would be a good place for them to land. Lots of very young families there, too. 

Wyandotte would also be good. The Legends development caused so much growth at I70 and 435, plus they would be minutes from Leavenworth. Chelsy has posted about shopping at The Legends in the past. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up near there, either. 

Regardless, I think anything that gives them room to breathe and see a larger world away from Steve is good. 

Indeed, the market is hot.  I just don't see how they can afford Johnson County, or even western Wyandotte, the way things are now, considering their assumed income.  They could make a substantial down payment with the cash from the Leavenworth home, but I wonder what their income is that would support a house payment after that. 

I know the family goes to the Legends, because a high school friend of my daughter's served them at the Olive Garden there while he was working there a few years ago.  Both of my kids have bought homes in the Dotte recently, and it's CRAZY (from the perspective of a lifer) what things are going for right now, even here.  I just don't know how they'd swing a JoCo purchase in their situations. 

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kpmom
8 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Alll this talk of Concentration and Password set me to looking those shows on Wikipedia.  Allen Ludden was the host of Password while Hugh Downs was the original host of Concentration.

Wasn't Hugh Downs also the original host of Jeopardy way back in the 60's?  We neighborhood kids used to love to watch it and play along over summer break.

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Hane

I’m in shock: A Sarah Maxwell post that doesn’t infuriate me! Good on Anna for helping out with the garden while her sister-in-law and brother are away. That’s a lot of work.

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