Not Enough Nelsons: When Mormon Naming Goes Too Far

[Yaruhmak]

5 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the kids changing their names. I don't mind kids changing their name if its their choice and they change it to something they choose. But I don't really think that's what's happening because so many of them have changed their name and amazingly they all seem to pick ones that go with the theme of their new parents picked. I think its the mom or both parents deciding to change the names. The one girl Lilly (or did it have one l) they didn't change her name but changed the spelling? Why? The mom mentions in Saidee's that "they" orginally picked Lexus supposedly Saidee and the mom until the mom heard her mother mention something  with Saidee in it and loved it. What about Saidee? Did she love it? Would she have been "allowed" to keep her original name? Or "allowed" to pick any another name if she wanted to that didn't have the "ee"? Probably not. 

I have looked extensively into adoption in the past (and still would like to, but it has been put on hold for the moment). Part of that research has involved reading experiences from various online groups / forums. The name debate has come up frequently, and some people have very strong feelings about it (I did too.)

From what I've found out, there are various reasons for changing adopted children names, one of which is safety concerns (if the parents have lost custody, they may try to find the child). Some people equate adoption with "starting over" and the old name may have negative associations for child. Thus, starting over with a new, "clean" name.

The biggest reason, basically, is selfishness, and I'm not saying that in a nasty or judgemental way because it is human nature to be selfish. Sometimes the parents do it out of well-meaning to the child, for example if the name would cause ridicule or cause them to feel out-of-place (in the case of ethnic names). Other times (especially if the parents don't have biological children) they had imagined their children having certain names and in a way, they're living out their fantasies through the name change. 

Personally, I think that if a child is old enough to acknowledge their name, they should be able to have a say in whether they want to change it and if so, decide what their new name should be.

If I'm not mistaken, I think most of the Nelson kids were quite young when they were adopted (3 and under) except for Bridger, Journée and Nayvee, so it probably wasn't a difficult transition for them. It makes sense to change Bridger and Journee's names especially since they are not touch with their heritage. They would probably feel a bit left out. I would have kept their Russian names as middle names instead. Nayvee went back and forth into foster care with the Nelsons. She was only recently adopted, so she was well aware of her name. Now I know people will say that her original name was awful, but is Nayvee really that much better? ?. I wonder if they called her that while she was in foster care with them, or they decided it when she was officially adopted? Either way, it must be very strange for her. 

Sorry for the essay ??

[Marmion]

And as I mentioned before , changing a person's name can be considered a form of thought control .  Not sure , if it factors in here in this case , or not .  However , those who are already predisposed to thinking of the LDS Church as being a cult might read into it .  

Quote

2.  Change person’s name and identity

https://freedomofmind.com/bite-model/ 

[Aine]

13 hours ago, Marmion said:

And as I mentioned before , changing a person's name can be considered a form of thought control .  Not sure , if it factors in here in this case , or not .  However , those who are already predisposed to thinking of the LDS Church as being a cult might read into it .  

https://freedomofmind.com/bite-model/ 

Considering they changed the children's name due to adoption (whether you agree with families who do this is another issue) rather than due to being Mormon and many families of all belief systems who adopt have been known to do the same, I don't see it as a form of thought control or LDS-specific at all.

 

[nelliebelle1197]

On 8/5/2020 at 9:48 PM, Aine said:

Considering they changed the children's name due to adoption (whether you agree with families who do this is another issue) rather than due to being Mormon and many families of all belief systems who adopt have been known to do the same, I don't see it as a form of thought control or LDS-specific at all.

 

But according to the OP EVERYTHING has to do the BITE model. I can't roll my eyes back any further when he posts that nonsense over and over in response to just about everything without breaking my head.

[Aine]

56 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

But according to the OP EVERYTHING has to do the BITE model. I can't roll my eyes back any further when he posts that nonsense over and over in response to just about everything without breaking my head.

I don't pay enough attention! ? I have some serious issues/criticisms of Steven Hassan and I don't see anything innovative about the BITE model theoretically, nor are his techniques or claims often supported by empirical research. Of course he makes some claims that are but on the whole, I think he's an opportunist and utilizes anecdotal evidence to bolster his image as some sort of "expert" ?‍♀️ Definitely more knowledgeable people out there than him on cults, brainwashing etc.

[Maggie Mae]

They finally admit that Kass and Josh live at the Nelson mansion. 

 

[neurogirl]

Growing up, my friend's family owned an adoption agency. She was one of 3 bio children of this family, but they had 7 more adopted children of multiple ethnicities, including 3 with special needs. They have always seemed like a very happy family. The 10th child was adopted as a teenager and was friends with one of the other teenagers in the family. She had been living with this family for a while I believe, and it was made official after several years. 

Especially for people willing to give good homes to teenagers or those with complex needs, it doesn't matter how many children they already have. So many kids need good homes. 

[Maggie Mae]

On 8/2/2020 at 3:44 AM, Yaruhmak said:

Journee's Q&A Video is up: 

 

 I don't understand the need to give out their surnames as well for safety reasons 

I think for JourNee and Bridger, they are somewhat looking/hoping that one of their biological siblings or biological relatives comes across the video. They've mentioned before that both Russian adoptees have unknown biological siblings in the US. 

[Allele]

Idk what to make with the name changes but it really irks me out on a few of them since it's felt like they were forcing some of these kids into being a part of the family really fast. Especially with the name styling. It feels really weird to me and I'm coming from a family with a hard c sound motif. 

I think of the kids was name something like Unique Destiny which is a fine name to me since a woman I'm friends with is named something similar to that. I don't bat my eyes at it since my birthname is literally the word "deer" in another language. There's a cultural context to those names (such as wanting their kids to know that they're deserve courtesy and basic respect because they're a "Queen" or "King"). 

Some of the names though, I really do think the bio parent(s) really do think the kid was going to have their name changed. There's a lot of discussion on changing names for adopted kids in general and I understand both sides, but I still really feel off about the Nelsons in general.

I do wonder if one of the kids will change their name back in the future. 

[Maggie Mae]

I guess I was wrong, and the new Intro video COULD be worse than the last one. 

I wonder if JouNee is just really into horses or if that's the role she's been assigned. And how much longer are Kenn, Kass, Bridger and JourNee going to be considered "teens?" They are not teens by any metric. They did add Josh which is nice.

 

[Nikedagain?]

2 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I guess I was wrong, and the new Intro video COULD be worse than the last one. 

I wonder if JouNee is just really into horses or if that's the role she's been assigned. And how much longer are Kenn, Kass, Bridger and JourNee going to be considered "teens?" They are not teens by any metric. They did add Josh which is nice.

 

Oh dear. Oh no. 

Nelson FamLee - JUST NOPEE

Edited August 10, 2020 by Nikedagain?

[Yaruhmak]

17 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I guess I was wrong, and the new Intro video COULD be worse than the last one. 

I wonder if JouNee is just really into horses or if that's the role she's been assigned. And how much longer are Kenn, Kass, Bridger and JourNee going to be considered "teens?" They are not teens by any metric. They did add Josh which is nice.

 

Cringiest thing I've ever seen. I wish I could unsee it ?

[Hane]

Again, I’m flummoxed at seeing the yt-est family I’ve ever seen using urban house music in its videos.

[Nikedagain?]

So when these kids turn 8 or so, TiffaNee and BenJee take them out on a special date to talk about the birds and the bees. I tried really hard to hate everything about it because you know, 2020, but I couldn't. It was actually sweet. 

Dammit. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

On 8/3/2020 at 2:56 AM, JordynDarby5 said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the kids changing their names. I don't mind kids changing their name if its their choice and they change it to something they choose. But I don't really think that's what's happening because so many of them have changed their name and amazingly they all seem to pick ones that go with the theme of their new parents picked. I think its the mom or both parents deciding to change the names. The one girl Lilly (or did it have one l) they didn't change her name but changed the spelling? Why? The mom mentions in Saidee's that "they" orginally picked Lexus supposedly Saidee and the mom until the mom heard her mother mention something  with Saidee in it and loved it. What about Saidee? Did she love it? Would she have been "allowed" to keep her original name? Or "allowed" to pick any another name if she wanted to that didn't have the "ee"? Probably not. 

The mom admitted in Navee's video that she lets them pick from a list of matching names. Ugh.

[front hugs > duggs]

I've been going back and watching some of the videos. I can't with the Challenge videos they do, but any of the updates/room makeovers, routines I've been watching. I echo what others have said - the naming issues aside, they seem to run a larger family better than most. They were in a car accident a while back (slipped on black ice going under the speed limit, not your typical "fundie" accident) and they couldn't emphasize enough how important seat belts are. Like, in multiple videos, multiple times the mom and several kids yelled about wearing seat belts. It seems like the middle/older kids help out with the younger kids when and if they want to, not because they are expected to. Most kids have their own room (especially the older ones) and it seems like the ones who share maybe want to, and its max two to a room. This seems to let them own their own style and personality. The mom has talked about "fits" and seems to walk them through them on camera. She seems to recognize that we all get overwhelmed or scared and anxious and doesn't see that is original sin (at least on camera). The videos are definitely scripted and a ton of energy, but this doesn't scream emotional abuse or neglect by any means.

[smittykins]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:12 PM, Nikedagain? said:

So when these kids turn 8 or so, TiffaNee and BenJee take them out on a special date to talk about the birds and the bees. I tried really hard to hate everything about it because you know, 2020, but I couldn't. It was actually sweet. 

Dammit. 

Aren’t Mormons typically baptized at age 8?

[clueliss]

Yes

[Maggie Mae]

Tiffany has put out a few videos where she talks about her struggles, which I thought was nice of her. She's also doing Lilee/Sadie/Luke's adoption stories. She's a little odd - i couldn't ever imagine telling an adoption agency that I had a dream and therefore this little girls is my child - but I just like how happy and full of life Tiffany is. So much happiness, love, kindness, and, well, dorkiness that she puts right up front and center. She acknowledges that for these kids to be in her life, that trauma had to happen. It's just so nice to go from Andrea/Tom Mills and their house of filth and untreated depression to such a nice bubbly happy human being who seems to actually enjoy getting to know her kids as people. 

It sounds like Lillee/Sadie/Luke's bioparents both struggled with meth addiction and voluntarily signed over the adoption rights. How incredibly sad to choose meth over your family members. I hope that the Nelsons are getting everyone counseling, and not just Church Counseling. 

[clueliss]

That was an interesting pair of videos.  

She’s not the first LDS person I’ve hea d talk about dreams and put high value on it.  Jamie Scott of five two love (they have quints) has talked about knowing via a dream that her youngest would be Lilly and I think at the time they only had the two older boys and hadn’t conceived yet.  Lily is their youngest.

[calliopecassandra]

On 8/10/2020 at 6:26 PM, Nikedagain? said:

Oh dear. Oh no. 

Nelson FamLee - JUST NOPEE

I skip the intros lol. I should watch the new one I guess

[front hugs > duggs]

I thought the dream thing was a bit odd at first too. But when I thought about it, I considered this experience that I had: several months after my mom died, I had my first dream about her. She called me, and she assured was that she was "okay". I only remember how far after her death this dream was because the only thing I remember saying to her in the dream was that Mary Tyler Moore had passed and to keep an eye out for her (my mom was a big MTM fan). Obviously, my own conscious could have just been wanting to see my mom. But this dream was seriously unlike any other dreams I've had about her since then, I have to believe there was some connection.

And if I believe that, who am I to judge anyone else on a dream they had that made them feel so strongly. 

[JordynDarby5]

8 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I thought the dream thing was a bit odd at first too. But when I thought about it, I considered this experience that I had: several months after my mom died, I had my first dream about her. She called me, and she assured was that she was "okay". I only remember how far after her death this dream was because the only thing I remember saying to her in the dream was that Mary Tyler Moore had passed and to keep an eye out for her (my mom was a big MTM fan). Obviously, my own conscious could have just been wanting to see my mom. But this dream was seriously unlike any other dreams I've had about her since then, I have to believe there was some connection.

And if I believe that, who am I to judge anyone else on a dream they had that made them feel so strongly. 

My aunt had one on the first anniversary of my uncle's death. She didn't say too much about it except that it gave her such peace and made her ready to move on. I had the day after the first anniversary of my mom's death. She lectured me on making sure my dad ate healthy and ignored my pointing out he was an adult. Nope, it was my job to make sure he was taking care of him. Which sounded just like her. She tell me to do that and not Dad. Then told me that we needed to go on day trips, vacations, and still live our lives things I pointed out to her I couldn't because of all my medical problems. At first I thought she was telling me not to give up but I think she was telling me that I was going to get better. If she wanted to tell me to have hope she would have said that. But she specifically said day trips and vacations. Why, unless she knew I was going to get better? Maybe not back 100% but enough to still go on day trips and vacations. I'll never be convinced it wasn't real.

Edited September 16, 2020 by JordynDarby5

[TuringMachine]

I'd much rather hear Tiffany talk about dreaming of her future child and being so overjoyed and in love when she met them than read another Braggie post about how much she didn't want her children.

[neurogirl]

On the dream thing - I've been so horribly stressed with mental health in the toilet trying to finish my PhD during Covid, husband laid off, being away from all our support system, etc. My grandfather, who passed away in 2013, was always so supportive of my education. He also took my family to Disney twice when I was a child. A few nights ago after a few days of being teary and on the end of my rope, I had a dream that he took me to Disney World just the two of us. I was my current age but there was no covid and no crowds. No speeches from him, no premonitions, but its given me such peace as well. I'm not really religious but it was so precisely timed, vivid, and relieving that it really did feel like he was giving me a break. ❤️