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TuringMachine

Not Enough Nelsons: When Mormon Naming Goes Too Far

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Marmion
2 hours ago, Howl said:

The angel Moroni is a huge deal in Mormonism. 

Angel Moroni

Pretty sure I've been baptised in absentia.  My great grandmother converted to the LDS faith in Ireland when she had one son (my grandfather) and five daughters. My grandfather never converted, but all five sisters did.  Apparently the five daughters ranged in dedication from a super Mormon to a very casual Mormon. 

I think that , according to what I have read from them https://mormonbeliefs.org/temples-and-prophets/mormon_temples/mormon-baptism-for-the-dead/ , they only do proxy baptisms for the dead . I have never heard of it being done on behalf of a living person with that person's knowledge , and consent . 

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smittykins
On 5/22/2020 at 10:35 AM, clueliss said:

Eh - they're allowed to drink soft drinks though.  

Aren’t they still supposed to be caffeine-free?

(I once came across a teen magazine published during the Osmonds’ early-70s heyday, and there was a letter from a fan noting that the mag had earlier printed a photo of an Osmond brother drinking an orange soda, and “I thought they couldn’t do that because they’re Mormon.”  It was explained that non-caffeinated sodas were allowed.)

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HereComesTreble

NayVee.  That name reminds me of Usnavy from In the Heights.

I suggest ArMee for girl number 17 (or whatever).

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Maggie Mae
On 5/22/2020 at 6:27 AM, usedbicycle said:

These giant Mormon families baffle me with their boundless energy. And they're not even allowed to drink coffee!!! 

I recently watched a day in the life of Jordan Page (Fun Cheap or Free) who has a bunch of kids including newborn twins. I nearly had a nervous breakdown just watching the video but she takes it all in stride. While the Duggar kids were surviving on canned food and lacking even basic social skills, these kids are eating balanced meals, going to school and dancing their pants off. Where's the catch? Where's the gimmick? 

I've been thinking about this. My initial thought is that obviously the Nelsons have quite a bit more money than the Fuggars, they have enough space, healthy food, etc. I noticed some Fjallraven backpacks for the little kids, and other higher end clothing and home goods (Kate Spade blanket, decent hair products, etc, nine phone plans). 11 bathrooms, some of the kids have their own rooms and those who share are only sharing with one other sibling. So these kids get a much better night's sleep, the parents get a better nights sleep, they are eating better food, and they are encouraged to exercise and dance and study. And they go to school and get a break from the family, they talk to other kids their own age, some of the kids are taking Mandarin!  

But I think it's more than just the comfort of having enough space and food and money to raise kids. The Nelson family seems to prioritize different things than the Duggars. The Duggars do not care about their individual kids. Their faith is depressing and sad and joyless. They don't go out into the community much. They don't care about serving others or doing anything other than procreating. Even when the Duggars managed to upgrade their wardrobes, get a giant laundry room and more bathrooms, they still aren't out there sharing their faith or giving back to the community who used to donate clothes to them. They just take and take and make babies. 

The Maxwells have enough money to be comfortable and not struggle like the early duggars and yet they are the most joyless, stuck up, non-helpful people. 

There's a video where TIffany (the mom) said she has some kids that get As, and others that don't, but she's more interested in preserving her relationship with the ones who struggle. I want to say it's the one with the afterschool routines.  

I really liked what she said at the end of this video, about why she edits out the meltdowns. I know it's just a small snippet of their lives but I just like her so much in comparison to these other families who don't like their kids at all. I love the way she actually interacts with the baby and the littlest kids. And she just goes with the flow about the teens not wanting to ride on the family bus or get out of bed. There are so many bloggers out there who show everything, while not thinking about the child's feelings about the matter. 

 

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VVV
On 5/23/2020 at 2:48 PM, Howl said:

The angel Moroni is a huge deal in Mormonism. 

Angel Moroni

Pretty sure I've been baptised in absentia.  My great grandmother converted to the LDS faith in Ireland when she had one son (my grandfather) and five daughters. My grandfather never converted, but all five sisters did.  Apparently the five daughters ranged in dedication from a super Mormon to a very casual Mormon. 

I don’t think you can be baptized in absentia until you’re dead. Is there something you need to tell us? 🤣

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HereComesTreble
Posted (edited)

Big ole edit:  I should say I have no idea if anyone in this Mormon family is on anti-depressants.  

To the questions of why Mormons, generally speaking, can appear so peppy without caffeinated assistance:

Overall, Mormons are pretty stoked about anti-depressants. And no shame in that.  I am very much stoked about anti-depressants.  

This article from the LA Times is from a few years back.  It discusses how Utah leads the nation in anti-depressant prescription usage  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-feb-20-mn-28924-story.html%3f_amp=true

Sooo, pep for everyone!

Edited by HereComesTreble
Clarify

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clueliss

It is my understanding (and I could be wrong) that the “rules” say no tea, no coffee.  While the intent is no caffeine, it does not mean they follow the intent.  Therefore, hey, I can have a Mountain Dew (which, while not a cola is also loaded with caffeine) because that is not coffee or tea.  Mindy Bingham (This Is How We Bingham) doesn’t hide her love of Dr. Pepper (part of the Mormon vloggers community).  

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Marmion
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, HereComesTreble said:

Big ole edit:  I should say I have no idea if anyone in this Mormon family is on anti-depressants.  

To the questions of why Mormons, generally speaking, can appear so peppy without caffeinated assistance:

Overall, Mormons are pretty stoked about anti-depressants. And no shame in that.  I am very much stoked about anti-depressants.  

This article from the LA Times is from a few years back.  It discusses how Utah leads the nation in anti-depressant prescription usage  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-feb-20-mn-28924-story.html%3f_amp=true

Sooo, pep for everyone!

I think that this podcast might explain things somewhat , starting at around 47 minutes .  https://radiofreemormon.org/2019/05/radio-free-mormon-067-why-are-mormons-so-fake/  In a nutshell , Mormons , and for that matter others whom are  similar in some respects , such as this , like my former church , the Church of the Nazarene , are admonished to always reflect the likeness of Jesus Christ , so as to attract prospects to the fold . So we were taught that we should always radiate the joy of the Lord , no matter what happens , so that those on the outside can see who Jesus is , by our perfect example .   This is the belief of Christian perfection in action . You always are made to feel that you have to make a good impression , lest you disappoint God .  You aren't permitted to admit that you at times feel worried , or wearied , lest it show that you lack faith , and strength in the Lord .   From an active LDS members perspective .  https://www.millennialstar.org/nobodys-perfect-a-look-at-toxic-perfectionism-and-depression/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheMillennialStar+(Millennial+Star)  , and from ex-members  https://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon500.htm . 

Edited by Marmion
to add a couple articles
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HereComesTreble
27 minutes ago, Marmion said:

So we were taught that we should always radiate the joy of the Lord , no matter what happens , so that those on the outside can see who Jesus is , by our perfect example .   

If you replace “Gwen” for “Jesus,” this will also be true for the Remnant Church (a cult-like church discussed here on FJ).

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Marmion
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HereComesTreble said:

If you replace “Gwen” for “Jesus,” this will also be true for the Remnant Church (a cult-like church discussed here on FJ).

Oh yes .  I think that this is also true of any church , including Remnant Fellowship , which puts a certain person , or persons , on a pedestal .  Now technically , the rank and file Nazarenes and Mormons , I don't know for sure about the RF , are only expected to be as perfect as their particular gradient entails .  

Quote

Question: How perfect is "Christian Perfection"?

Answer: Christian Perfection doesn't mean perfect in the sense that many think. The Bible's word for perfect means that a person is as complete as he or she was designed to be at that moment. A seven-year-old piano player might be able to perform a one-handed version of a song perfectly. When the child finishes, his or her piano teacher might exclaim: "Perfect!" However, as that little musician grows up and reaches his or her mid-twenties, the same teacher will likely expect a great deal more.

- https://home.snu.edu/~HCULBERT/entire.htm , https://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon500.htm  However I can attest that in order to be ordained , a Nazarene pastor must testify to having become as perfect as Jesus Christ himself , from what I have both heard , and understand .  https://www.usacanadaregion.org/sites/usacanadaregion.org/files/dsldp/ordinterviewques.pdf  It is actually not surprising that Mormons and Nazarenes are so similar , given the shared history in early Methodism . { https://usreligion.blogspot.com/2011/01/methodism-mormonism-and-atlantic-world.html , https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2746&context=etd }   

Edited by Marmion

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Howl
Posted (edited)

From the toxic perfection article linked by @MarmionNobody’s Perfect: A Look at Toxic Perfectionism and Depression

Quote

...In their toxic perfectionist delusions, those affected come to believe they have control over their circumstances, and their “family or personal righteousness” somehow exempts them from the typical trials of life. Observance of the gospel  is incorrectly preached as a protection from the sorrows of life, rather than a source of strength and comfort when trials, which shall surely come.

I have to wonder how much these  family bloggers/LDS mommy bloggers on social media (youtube, Instagram in particular) contribute to this. 

Perfect nuclear family, perfect looks, perfect kids, perfect clothes, perfect house.  And how those perfect families may come to think they are immune from illness/accidents/death/bad behavior, because their very identity is based on how perfect they appear and others are despairing because they can never aspire to perception of that perfection. 

 

Edited by Howl

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DarkAnts
Posted (edited)

The exact wording from Joseph Smith is no hot beverages. The church won't say to not drink soda because they own stock in coke and Pepsi. Within the past two years the high up leaders even said that the church has no official stance on soda. This prompted students at BYU to petition to have caffeinated soda on campus. Most students before this would buy a bottle of non caffeinated soda, dump it out, and refill with the caffeinated stuff.   
 

There was a time when it was no caffeine. But that seems to be evolving.

Edited by DarkAnts

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Marmion
10 hours ago, Howl said:

From the toxic perfection article linked by @Marmion: Nobody’s Perfect: A Look at Toxic Perfectionism and Depression

I have to wonder how much these  family bloggers/LDS mommy bloggers on social media (youtube, Instagram in particular) contribute to this. 

Perfect nuclear family, perfect looks, perfect kids, perfect clothes, perfect house.  And how those perfect families may come to think they are immune from illness/accidents/death/bad behavior, because their very identity is based on how perfect they appear and others are despairing because they can never aspire to perception of that perfection. 

 

Others have commented on this very thing , expressing the same concerns .  

Quote

Social media commonly creates a false perception of who people are and what their lives are actually like. This causes viewers to have low self-esteem, feelings of being left out or that they are not investing enough of themselves, and can even lead to extremes such as cyber-bullying and depression.

There are parts of ourselves that we want people to see, and then there are others we shelter from the eye of the Internet. Social media depicts an idea of the type of positive, everything-is-awesome type of people we aspire to be, but it's not like that in reality. We want the world to see that we are happy, always doing adventurous, fulfilling activities, and that we're on top of the world. We edit our lives and cut out the real parts, only focusing on the ideal parts of who and what we wish we could be.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/social-media-creates-false-identities   

Quote

Perfectionism can allow us to aim high and achieve great things. However, perfectionists are doomed to failure, because we set ourselves standards that are not attainable for humans. We will never meet our goals, to the detriment of our mental health and wellbeing. When we go online, we’re surrounded by platforms that appear to be full of other people meeting these goals. Intellectually, we know it’s all a lovely lie, but emotionally it’s a struggle. Feelings seem like facts.

We need to protect future generations from perfectionism, and recognise that it’s not an advantage masquerading as a weakness. It’s destroying us, and making us desperately sad. I hope the new research inspires us all to check our perfectionist tendencies, and focus on our health and happiness instead. Perfection is a myth, but it can destroy us in ways that are all too real.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/05/perfectionism-mental-health-millennial-social-media 

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zee_four
On 5/21/2020 at 2:45 AM, clueliss said:

There should be at least 3 house tour videos (one for each floor of the house I believe). And there is a whole series of room makeovers.

Also of over the top associated interest might be Just Kass - which is the YouTube Channel for Kass (who goes by Kass and not the full on EE ending name).  Kass got married last fall.  And I thought it looked like perhaps when she and Josh (husband honeymooned in Paris that the family also went to Paris (and we thought mainstream fundies were weird).  

I stumbled into this family due to a crossover video posted on/with the Scott family (Five-two-love) (they have quints and two older sons) - based on knowing that the Scotts live in St. George, Utah and that the men in both families know each other from starting some soccer group/association my guess is that the Nelsons live in the St. George area.  There is a video on the NEN channel with the Scott quints being babysat by the NEN kids as something of a prank (they leave individual babies with various kids to freak them out) (and since the Scotts at that time just didn't randomly travel with the quints I suspect they're in he same general area).  

Yeah they mentioned Hurricane def. St George. 

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Marmion
7 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

The exact wording from Joseph Smith is no hot beverages. The church won't say to not drink soda because they own stock in coke and Pepsi. Within the past two years the high up leaders even said that the church has no official stance on soda. This prompted students at BYU to petition to have caffeinated soda on campus. Most students before this would buy a bottle of non caffeinated soda, dump it out, and refill with the caffeinated stuff.   
 

There was a time when it was no caffeine. But that seems to be evolving.

This reminds me of a Studio C sketch I saw.  

Spoiler

 

 

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ADoyle90815

From what I understand, the only restriction as far as caffeinated beverages is no coffee or tea from the tea plant. There's even a thing in Utah known as soda "bars" where you can get "dirty" sodas just as a non-Mormon might have a dirty martini. There are drive thru places where Mormons can get those soda drinks, and at wedding receptions, those "bars" are a thing. My mom who married a Jack Mormon went to such a reception for my youngest step sister, and she thought those sodas were way too sweet as not only do they start with sugary sodas, they add more sugary syrup to them for the flavors.

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Maggie Mae
On 5/24/2020 at 11:34 AM, HereComesTreble said:

NayVee.  That name reminds me of Usnavy from In the Heights.

I suggest ArMee for girl number 17 (or whatever).

Thankfully, Tiffany and Benji have said several times that they are done, and expect grandchildren soon. I wonder if Beckham's/Elsie's/Delaney's/Sadie's/Lily's/Luke's birth mom had more kids if they would take them in too. 

Kass just did a ridiculously long pregnancy test video. 

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clueliss

The thought of Kass with a child, considering how she is the Puppy (capitalized because the dog’s name IS Puppy, a fact that makes me twitchy when she uses the high pitched baby voice to say the name)

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clueliss

It sounds likes video is the first in a series.  Kass interviews NayVee with questions including details of adoptive parents, her name now, and the name she was given at birth.

Spoiler

She Was given a list of names to choose from. And her birth name was Unique Destiny

 

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Red Hair, Black Dress

Oh dear Rufus.  If my my birth name was Unique Destiny I'd change it too.

Once worked with a man named Autie LastName. We got to be work friends and he told me his real name was Autumn Time LastName IV   Showed me his driver's license. The 4th!! Multiple people had bestowed that name 4 times!! 

I asked him if there was or would be a Autumn Time V. He said No, absolutely No although his family was pushing hard. He hated his name. I asked if he'd ever thought of legally changing it.  He said yes but #3 his father and Jr his grandfather were still alive so it would be a big problem with the family.

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Maggie Mae

Who are the weirdos who want to know if she got her period? How is that anything they need to know, interesting, or relevant? 

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Glasgowghirl
11 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Oh dear Rufus.  If my my birth name was Unique Destiny I'd change it too.

Once worked with a man named Autie LastName. We got to be work friends and he told me his real name was Autumn Time LastName IV   Showed me his driver's license. The 4th!! Multiple people had bestowed that name 4 times!! 

I asked him if there was or would be a Autumn Time V. He said No, absolutely No although his family was pushing hard. He hated his name. I asked if he'd ever thought of legally changing it.  He said yes but #3 his father and Jr his grandfather were still alive so it would be a big problem with the family.

My dad broke a naming tradition when he chose to name my brother David and not John. My dad's official name John but he was always called Ian, Gaelic version of John and only found that out when he started school. So when him and my mum discussed boy's names they ruled out John and any varient of John straight away. We have too many John's in the family just now. 

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Hane
52 minutes ago, clueliss said:

It sounds likes video is the first in a series.  Kass interviews NayVee with questions including details of adoptive parents, her name now, and the name she was given at birth.

  Hide contents

She Was given a list of names to choose from. And her birth name was Unique Destiny

 

OK—that was freaking painful to watch. Way to rip away any of that poor child’s privacy and autonomy in the name of the shrieking, raucous family brand. 

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Marmion
3 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Oh dear Rufus.  If my my birth name was Unique Destiny I'd change it too.

 

 

 

.

Sort of reminds me of what Miley Cyrus's birth name was .  http://www.justjared.com/2008/05/05/miley-cyrus-name-change/  I think though that Native Americans , such as what Nayvee , and to a much lesser extent Miley is https://newspaperrock.bluecorncomics.com/2011/02/miley-cyrus-cherokee.html?m=1 , have a tradition of giving their children particular names . https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/whats-in-name/201107/names-and-identity-the-native-american-naming-tradition   Speaking of which , I had thought that it's no longer legal for Native American children to get adopted out .  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfare_Act   As it turns out though , the LDS church has had a long history of taking custody of Native Americans , which they call "Lamanites" .  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Placement_Program  

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clueliss

By the way, the blinding of Kass’s hair has be extremely distracted now.  I kept staring at her thinking how the hell do you think that is attractive?

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