M is for Mama 6: M is for Mama 6: Temper Tantrum over Twins Twice

[SuperNova]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

To be fair, there are lots of Christians who do not believe that verse is talking about spanking. 

There may be Christians who thankfully don't follow the bible literally but it does promote violence toward children. The bible itself is a violent book. I honestly don't know how these verses don't mean spanking. 

Proverbs 13:24 He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

I picked KJV because fundies like it. But from what I could tell, other versions say pretty much the same thing.

Edited May 23, 2020 by SuperNova

[katilac]

2 hours ago, SuperNova said:

There may be Christians who thankfully don't follow the bible literally but it does promote violence toward children. The bible itself is a violent book. I honestly don't know how these verses don't mean spanking. 

Proverbs 13:24 He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

I picked KJV because fundies like it. But from what I could tell, other versions say pretty much the same thing.

The most common explanation I've seen is that people don't understand the purpose of a rod or even what it is- it refers to the curved end of the staff, the 'hook' part' which is at the end of the stick part most people are imagining as the rod. It was often used to pull the sheep out of dangerous situation - maybe they were close to the edge of a cliff or stuck in some bushes. The rod and staff was heavy and could be used as a weapon, but not against the sheep (the shepherd's entire job is to keep the sheef safe, and they were pretty valuable to be hitting with a heavy weapon). Rather, it was used to hit wild animals that might come after the sheep, ie used to protect the sheep. And obviously the shepherd had to keep a close eye on his flock. So this interpretation of 13:24 says that parents are to keep a close eye on their children, pull them back from dangerous situations, and protect them from violent outside forces as much as possible. And yes, chasten and discipline, but that does not have to mean spanking. 

While I agree that the bible is full of violence overall, I don't think this is a crazy interpretation of this verse. After all, Psalms 23:4 says "Thy rod and thy staff will comfort me" and no one is comforted by a beating stick, lol. 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by katilac

[Melissa1977]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

The most common explanation I've seen is that people don't understand the purpose of a rod or even what it is- it refers to the curved end of the staff, the 'hook' part' which is at the end of the stick part most people are imagining as the rod. It was often used to pull the sheep out of dangerous situation - maybe they were close to the edge of a cliff or stuck in some bushes. The rod and staff was heavy and could be used as a weapon, but not against the sheep (the shepherd's entire job is to keep the sheef safe, and they were pretty valuable to be hitting with a heavy weapon). Rather, it was used to hit wild animals that might come after the sheep, ie used to protect the sheep. And obviously the shepherd had to keep a close eye on his flock. So this interpretation of 13:24 says that parents are to keep a close eye on their children, pull them back from dangerous situations, and protect them from violent outside forces as much as possible. And yes, chasten and discipline, but that does not have to mean spanking. 

While I agree that the bible is full of violence overall, I don't think this is a crazy interpretation of this verse. After all, Psalms 23:4 says "Thy rod and thy staff will comfort me" and no one is comforted by a beating stick, lol. 

 

Your interpretation may be accurate , but Bible was written in ancient times and reflects a patriarchal, very hard society, where hitting a child was absolutely normal. What infuriates me is that fundies cherry-pick the verses that fit them and deliberately ignore others. They take some verses literally but interpret others, etc. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Your interpretation may be accurate , but Bible was written in ancient times and reflects a patriarchal, very hard society, where hitting a child was absolutely normal. What infuriates me is that fundies cherry-pick the verses that fit them and deliberately ignore others. They take some verses literally but interpret others, etc. 

I agree. In those times it was normal to hit children, own slaves, and to have more than one wife. But only the hitting children part is ok. 

[Melissa1977]

5 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I agree. In those times it was normal to hit children, own slaves, and to have more than one wife. But only the hitting children part is ok. 

Isn't there a story about a man whose wife was infertile, he impregnate a slave and then abandonned the slave and the baby in the desert? Fundies read that and just say amen?

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, Melissa1977 said:

Isn't there a story about a man whose wife was infertile, he impregnate a slave and then abandonned the slave and the baby in the desert? Fundies read that and just say amen?

There are a ton of fucked up stories in the Bible that fundies completely ignore.

[danvillebelle]

10 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Isn't there a story about a man whose wife was infertile, he impregnate a slave and then abandonned the slave and the baby in the desert? Fundies read that and just say amen?

That would be Abraham.

[Melissa1977]

13 hours ago, katilac said:

While I agree that the bible is full of violence overall, I don't think this is a crazy interpretation of this verse. After all, Psalms 23:4 says "Thy rod and thy staff will comfort me" and no one is comforted by a beating stick, lol

I was thinking about it. In fact, you can be comforted by the rod (the sheperd use the rod to walk or to rest while standing up) and also can use it to hit animals. I'm not sure if sheeps were hit in ancient times, but dogs, donkeys and cows were. 

[katilac]

15 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Your interpretation may be accurate , but Bible was written in ancient times and reflects a patriarchal, very hard society, where hitting a child was absolutely normal. What infuriates me is that fundies cherry-pick the verses that fit them and deliberately ignore others. They take some verses literally but interpret others, etc. 

To be clear, this isn't at all my interpretation. As I said, it's just the one I've heard most often by people who believe that verse isn't about spanking. 

Yes, the bible can mean whatever you want it to mean!

[Hane]

In this verse, it clearly says, “Do not withhold discipline from a child. If you strike him with a rod, he will not die.” (Proverbs 23:13)

There are several other Biblical verses that endorse hitting with a rod. Please don’t lump them in with “Thy rod and staff, they comfort me.”

[Melissa1977]

7 minutes ago, katilac said:

To be clear, this isn't at all my interpretation. As I said, it's just the one I've heard most often by people who believe that verse isn't about spanking. 

Yes, the bible can mean whatever you want it to mean!

Sorry, I didn't mean it's your own intrepretation. I should have written it better.  In fact, I know some people who try to interpret ancient religious texts to fit a modern, equal, point of view. They want to follow their religion principles but, at the same time, feel ashamed of some of them. In my opinion, it is enterely possible to respect the roots of a culture/religion while being aware that some of those beliefs were horrible and should never be repeated. The majority of ancient societies were unequal and violent. It does not mean they must be forgotten. But imagining they were respectful with women and children is a fantasy.

I'm not refering to the rod comment only, nor to Christian religion only. 

[SuperNova]

2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

In fact, I know some people who try to interpret ancient religious texts to fit a modern, equal, point of view. They want to follow their religion principles but, at the same time, feel ashamed of some of them.

Christian apologetics exsist for this reason. 

Speaking of inequality and exploitation of children...it's hard to believe we've been following Abbie this long. Ezra is another year older and that means doing more parenting than either of his deadbeat mom and dad. After all, Ezra means helper.

[Melissa1977]

I'm very BEC today. Why Braggie does not make her daughters comb their hair? They look messy and untidy, like... their mother!

[SuperNova]

14 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

I'm very BEC today. Why Braggie does not make her daughters comb their hair? They look messy and untidy, like... their mother!

I wasn't going to say it but it was the first thing I noticed. So much stringy hair.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Little girls do tend to have messy hair since I e found that they are just as physical as boys. They want to go run around outside, ride bikes, jump on the trampoline and play tag too. But that’s why braids and ponytails are so great for girls. It keeps their hair out if their faces so they can play just as much as the boys.

[anachronistic]

I think Braggie has unkempt hair deliberately but on the girls it’s maybe because they don’t get her help to wash and brush it, and kids that age with hair that long just aren’t old enough to wash and comb their hair well. They also play hard and that’s hard with long hair unless it’s tied back. The pictures taken in the morning or for photo shoots it looks fine. I’ve been washing my very-fine hair less with this stay at home thing and it definitely gets stringy after a day of not paying attention to it. 

[zee_four]

On 5/17/2020 at 1:02 PM, Walking Cat Bed said:

My housing situation (which wasn't ideal to begin with) imploded in March, right around when things were getting scary with Covid. I've been an extended type hotel since the very end of March.

 

It's been pretty quiet until this past week -- there were a few situations where people took advantage of lower rates to try and set up party rooms (and usually got booted the next morning, if the manager hadn't been there for check-in). Most of the other guests were long-term folks like me or someone who had no choice but to travel for work. And since Friday, I've heard several families -- with kids. Most talking about their fishing trip or family visit or whatever. Not doing masks or gloves or reminding kids to wash their hands REALLY WELL once they're in the room -- a few let their kids run up and down the halls, touch everything, and so on. 

The state I'm in (Colorado) had a restaurant open for full service last week, only to be shut down by the health department AND get a public scolding from the governor. (AND schools are still technically "in session" despite having been online since March.)

 

This is the time of year that I *want* to do things like take myself to breakfast and then spend the rest of the day at bookstores and craft stores, but I'm not pushing for it. 

eek. I've had to live in hotels and been homeless in Colorado before. pm me if you need to talk.

[SuperNova]

11 hours ago, anachronistic said:

...kids that age with hair that long just aren’t old enough to wash and comb their hair well. They also play hard and that’s hard with long hair unless it’s tied back.  

I hope that Abbie respects her daughter's bodily autonomy and doesn't expect them to keep their hair long because it looks better for her Insta image. Something tells me that they don't make those types of choices for themselves.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, SuperNova said:

I hope that Abbie respects her daughter's bodily autonomy and doesn't expect them to keep their hair long because it looks better for her Insta image. Something tells me that they don't make those types of choices for themselves.

I’m pretty sure she’s the one who talked them into a bob a couple of years ago.

Edited May 26, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[klein_roeschen]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:49 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I would choose laminate countertops over concrete any day. But laminate is not cool enough for Instagram. My guess is that she will claim she found some fabulous marble or quartz on sale for only $5000 and just had to have them. 

Laminate countertops for the win. My current countertop is laminate and the next will be also and will cost me a whooping 49,95 € at Ikea. I can't imagine ever to pay that amount of money just for stone countertops which only purpose is to look good. But I also love my linoleum floor in my kitchen and that room is smaller than her kitchen island alone.

20 hours ago, anachronistic said:

I think Braggie has unkempt hair deliberately but on the girls it’s maybe because they don’t get her help to wash and brush it, and kids that age with hair that long just aren’t old enough to wash and comb their well. They also play hard and that’s hard with long hair unless it’s tied back. The pictures taken in the morning or for photo shoots it looks fine. I’ve been washing my very-fine hair less with this stay at home thing and it definitely gets stringy after a day of not paying attention to it. 

Besides maybe the youngest of her girls, all of them should be able to brush their hair themselves and put that into a simple pony tail or braid, but you need to teach them how to properly first.

I have thick, curly hair that I worn long as a child and my mother instilled a hair routine early in me and teached me how to brush it before I started school, she only took care of it when it was washed until I was able to. I don't get the open hair with kids anyway, I wore braids most of the time and even as an adult I had my hair into some kind of braid if it's get to long and I hate it when my hair hangs in my face. Get your girls into cute french braids, youtube is full with videos of people showing you how and you have pretty kid that can run around without bothering about her hair.

[danvillebelle]

10 hours ago, SuperNova said:

Something tells me that they don't make those types of choices for themselves.

Considering she buzzed her BABY'S hair because it looked too unkempt for the gram, I'd say your hunch is correct.

1 hour ago, klein_roeschen said:

Laminate countertops for the win.

My circa 1970 kitchen has laminate countertops; they're white with random avocado green streaks, sort of a faux marble pattern.  We are only the second owners of the house and the previous lady was a meticulous housekeeper.  There is ONE ding; other than that they look like they were installed yesterday.  They're actually coved (not sure if that is the right word) up to the bottom of the cabinets and are the backsplash for the stove and sink.  They're easy to keep clean and I love them to bits!

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I honestly don’t mind our laminate countertops. They are dated and 1980’s but they aren’t ugly. They are kind of a neutral beige color. I do care about how my house looks. However I always weigh the price and there’s no way I will pay thousands of dollars for new countertops when the current ones work fine. 

[The butcher's wife]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m pretty sure she’s the one who talked them into a bob a couple of years ago.

 

My mother also didn't mess around when it came to hair. You would brush it yourself so you looked tidy, or you would let her brush it when she thought it necessary. Thus, my sister's hair never came past her ears until she was 11. I always brushed mine, but I still wore it open a lot. Strange story: there is a russian family that lives on "our" street. The grandma would always come out if she saw us on the playground or playing in the street and would braid my hair, saying that it was never good for a girl to walk around with her hair untied. My mother always insinuated that this was because of their religion (they are also skirts only for girls, and my guess is that braiding the hair has a similar meaning to them). Though I really hope it was only a cultural thing, I was so little and certainly not trying to draw men's eyes with my unbound hair...

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, The butcher's wife said:

My mother also didn't mess around when it came to hair. You would brush it yourself so you looked tidy, or you would let her brush it when she thought it necessary. Thus, my sister's hair never came past her ears until she was 11. I always brushed mine, but I still wore it open a lot. Strange story: there is a russian family that lives on "our" street. The grandma would always come out if she saw us on the playground or playing in the street and would braid my hair, saying that it was never good for a girl to walk around with her hair untied. My mother always insinuated that this was because of their religion (they are also skirts only for girls, and my guess is that braiding the hair has a similar meaning to them). Though I really hope it was only a cultural thing, I was so little and certainly not trying to draw men's eyes with my unbound hair...

I’m the same with my sons. They absolutely refuse to brush their hair or let me brush it. So I keep it short. However my older son has some very shaggy hair right now thanks to the pandemic. 

[SuperNova]

I don't have social media and I don't really have friends in baby phase so it's hard for me to gauge, but do moms to be generally post a weekly belly update? It seems a little narcissistic to think that people need to see your gut every seven days. Abbie mentions that she's going back to teaching classes and is off for a date with the little boys. It's odd to me that the pandemic is just completely over for some people.