Tori and Bobby Smith 6: Now with Kade, Kolter, and Charlotte

[CanadianMamam]

57 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

Do you think all these complications with new babies will make one of the women change something? Like dunno space the next a little bit more than their usual?

Maybe I'm just tired and like to imagine something good before bed 

I think it has scared Carlin. I think Layla's medical issues scared her and I do think they have spaced out number 2 because of it.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, CanadianMamam said:

I think it has scared Carlin. I think Layla's medical issues scared her and I do think they have spaced out number 2 because of it.

As it should be. Too bad the rest don’t learn something too!

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’ll be honest. With the clotting disorder that seems to run in the family, the covid that got passed around, and the last few medical problems with newborns, the Bates children seem to be perfect examples of why people should limit their family size and use reliable birth control methods. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

2 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

I think it has scared Carlin. I think Layla's medical issues scared her and I do think they have spaced out number 2 because of it.

If Layla is 2 and there's no new baby on the way, I'll give Carlin credit for further spacing.  I supposes it's a little further than Tori as Carlin probably won't have 3 kids under 3. I'm not sure how Carlin compares to her sisters/sister in-law 

[CanadianMamam]

26 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

If Layla is 2 and there's no new baby on the way, I'll give Carlin credit for further spacing.  I supposes it's a little further than Tori as Carlin probably won't have 3 kids under 3. I'm not sure how Carlin compares to her sisters/sister in-law 

So I checked and Zack, Erin and Tori all had two by the time their oldest was Layla’s age, Alyssa was 7 months pregnant, and Josie was 3-ish months (so if Carlin is pregnant or gets pregnant soon, she and Josie are on a similar timeline, I guess, though Josie also had a miscarriage). I mean she is definitely still fundie and will be popping out babies but she might be slightly slowed down by her experience. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Here’s the thing, you can be Fundie and only have a few kids. Yes, quiverful fundies are the worst of the worst. Being quiverful is so harmful and irresponsible but it isn’t a requirement for being fundie. So I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some of these Bateses end up using birth control at some points through out their marriages. I don’t believe all 19 Bates kids will be quiverful 100% after marriage. Even if they are still fundie.

[AussieKrissy]

Is it wrong that I sing the new kids name to the tune of purple rain? 
also what are the little rockets on our names mean? 

[ophelia]

9 hours ago, BeccaGrim said:

Glad she is okay. The Bates really got slammed with all of these babies. Something going nearly wrong with all 3 of them! 

I'm not trying to defend the Bates, but I wouldn't wish a series of complications with their newborns on anybody.
I'm glad the baby is okay.

Sadly, this won't change their stance on reproduction at all and families like the Bateses are bound to experience a catastrophe in the future ?

[adidas]

Thank goodness they didn’t spell it Kharlotte. 

[SorenaJ]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’ll be honest. With the clotting disorder that seems to run in the family, the covid that got passed around, and the last few medical problems with newborns, the Bates children seem to be perfect examples of why people should limit their family size and use reliable birth control methods. 

With all those complications and issues, I wonder if they feel like God is trying to tell them something?

[adidas]

26 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

With all those complications and issues, I wonder if they feel like God is trying to tell them something?

One of the things that irks me most about fundies is their insistence that God is giving them a message … but only if it suits their narrative. 

The most glaring example is JimBob and  Michelle claiming that the pill caused them to miscarry their second baby, so God said to stop using birth control.

But now a few of their daughters have lost babies and they weren’t using birth control. So what does that mean?

The Bates and Duggar families are so quick to talk about God’s message to them, but it’s themselves they are listening to. Not God.

[monkeyrocks71]

I always feel like, (if you believe in God) God gave you a brain, and medical technology that allows you to space out your children, and all those signs to freakin slow down.  But they're too stubborn to even consider it. 

It's sort of that story about the flood, and a boat comes to rescue the guy and the guy says, "No, I have faith in the lord".  Then another boat comes and same thing.  Then a helicopter, and same thing.  And then the guy drowns and meets God and asks why God didn't save him and God is like, "I sent two boats and a helicopter!  What else did you want?!?!?!" 

I also feel like there's a lot to be said for only having a couple/few children, and raising them to be educated (whatever that means - whether in a trade or profession) in order to help others.  Like, imagine if MedicCorps people(or whatever it's called) actually had real advanced EMT training, or nursing degrees, or whatever.  Or if that one bates boy didn't actual "play" dentist, but actually got a degree in dental hygeine (even if he didn't want to become a full-fledged dentist).  Or went to actual trade school and became a carpenter/plumber/electrician, and volunteered building houses for the homeless/disabled/etc. I feel like that's more "honoring God" than just shooting kids out like darts from a Nerf gun.

But that would require actual work and not just photo ops, so...nah.

Edited June 26, 2021 by monkeyrocks71
Added thoughts

[ifosterkittens]

 

22 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Here’s the thing, you can be Fundie and only have a few kids. Yes, quiverful fundies are the worst of the worst. Being quiverful is so harmful and irresponsible but it isn’t a requirement for being fundie. So I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some of these Bateses end up using birth control at some points through out their marriages. I don’t believe all 19 Bates kids will be quiverful 100% after marriage. Even if they are still fundie.

While I am sure the Bates kids love all their siblings I imagine several of them have thought no way would I want to raise or financially support that many kids. Especially the older kids that remember the pre TV show days when money/resources were tight, and the house was small (pre renovation). Plus I'm sure they've witnessed the fallout the Duggars have had (not suggesting anything like that is going to the Bates), but they have to know the tides can turn and tomorrow the money train can stop. 

I don't know that any of the kids will come right out and say we are using NFP or any type of birth control, but when they don't pop out a million kids it will seem likely. Michael has said she's tried to get pregnant, and hasn't had success, and in her case I believe her. Since the kids all seem to participate on the family show to some degree I doubt they would publicly speak out at this time. 

I could imagine Zach and Whitney, Alyssa and John, Josie and her husband saying to each other let's have five (or whatever number they are thinking, reevaluate as needed) kids but then be done. Five kids is still a lot of kids, but also the family would fit in a minivan and a 3 or 4 bedroom house "reasonably". I mean reasonably compared to what they experienced as kids. 

 

[bal maiden]

It's not just a question of the practicalities of raising the children/whether they do or don't like babies though, when it comes to child spacing etc. These young parents are steeped in Quiverful ideology, of which the fundamental underpinning is the need for prolific reproduction in order to form a fundamentalist Christian voting bloc in the space of a couple of generations. It's not that Jesus hates the pill, it's that us librul heathens are using the pill, and they are not, so give it twenty years and there will be more of them than us, and they get their pretty little theocracy. 

[BeccaGrim]

Let's not discount Evan from this too.  He is 'the head of the household.' Maybe he's not ready for the next baby yet. He's still an apprentice Electrician.  And his kid was sick for a while. And then they got Covid. And then they had cockroaches in the house and a broken AC and they haven't been able to buy anything yet...

Maybe he's the one going let's wait. 

[PurpleCats]

Making an assumption here, but it sounds like Tori may have had a C Section if the baby’s cord was wrapped around her neck.  Hopefully they have minimal sense at least and wait the full year before letting the lord open again, if only so she can VBAC. 

[JDuggs]

5 minutes ago, PurpleCats said:

Making an assumption here, but it sounds like Tori may have had a C Section if the baby’s cord was wrapped around her neck.  Hopefully they have minimal sense at least and wait the full year before letting the lord open again, if only so she can VBAC. 

I don’t think that’s necessarily right. Two of my babies had the cords wrapped around their necks (and one of those, the cord was also wrapped around her torso) and they were both delivered vaginally. Granted, this was over twenty years ago so things might have changed. The doctors were not aware of the cord situation until birth was imminent.

[justmy2cents]

My daughter’s cord was wrapped around her neck twice. It was very tight so the OB cut it before letting me push her body out. We were not aware before the birth. Everything turned out well and I thanked my lucky stars that we were at the hospital.

[JDuggs]

50 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

My daughter’s cord was wrapped around her neck twice. It was very tight so the OB cut it before letting me push her body out. We were not aware before the birth. Everything turned out well and I thanked my lucky stars that we were at the hospital.

Ugh, with my daughter too, they told me not to push, but the urge was so strong, I couldn’t not push. She came out very quickly, not breathing at first. It was pretty traumatic for me and I felt guilty for not being able to follow the instructions. I don’t think they even had time to explain why I shouldn’t push. In the end, there were no short or long term effects. But until she was older, I always had it in the back of my mind that her traumatic birth would affect her development.

Edited June 27, 2021 by JDuggs
typo

[HideousGreenShirt]

Well damn, I feel like we've been waiting for this baby forever. 

I will admit I am shocked that Tori is only 25. I cannot imagine what her life is like but it seems depressing to me. 

Absolutely think she will be pregnant again by Christmas, or at the latest will announce valentines day 22.

[Flossie]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:02 AM, monkeyrocks71 said:

I always feel like, (if you believe in God) God gave you a brain, and medical technology that allows you to space out your children, and all those signs to freakin slow down.  But they're too stubborn to even consider it. 

It's sort of that story about the flood, and a boat comes to rescue the guy and the guy says, "No, I have faith in the lord".  Then another boat comes and same thing.  Then a helicopter, and same thing.  And then the guy drowns and meets God and asks why God didn't save him and God is like, "I sent two boats and a helicopter!  What else did you want?!?!?!" 

I've heard that story several times, and it's true that overly relying on a higher power to take care of things for you is a bad idea.

I've heard another one, can't remember where I heard it:

A man really wanted to win the lottery.  At first he just prayed to win, but week after week he didn't win a thing.  Then he started bargaining with God, specifying that he'd use the winnings to do God's work.  Every few weeks he'd get more specific as to what he'd do to further God's plan.  He added more and more things to the list, but he still didn't win.

Finally, he cried out "God!  Why won't You let me win the lottery?  There's so much I could do in Your Name to Glorify You!  Are You displeased with me?  What am I doing wrong?"

The Voice of God replied in a weary voice.  "Your plans are good.  But first, you have to buy a lottery ticket!"

[bal maiden]

16 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Ugh, with my daughter too, they told me not to push, but the urge was so strong, I couldn’t not push. She came out very quickly, not breathing at first. It was pretty traumatic for me and I felt guilty for not being able to follow the instructions. I don’t think they even had time to explain why I shouldn’t push. In the end, there were no short or long term effects. But until she was older, I always had it in the back of my mind that her traumatic birth would affect her development.

It wasn't your fault you couldn't pause the pushing! The foetal ejection reflex is real, you might as well have tried to stop yourself from vomiting or hiccuping. So, just in case you are still feeling guilty, it wasn't a failure on your part. Very glad it all turned out well for your daughter.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

My son came so fast I was trying hard to hold him in because I wasn’t even close to mentally ready to push him out. But he just came out anyway. I barely even had to push. He was coming out whether I wanted him to or not. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[Expectopatronus]

@monkeyrocks71 Even if the boys didn’t have egos the size of Montréal and weren’t as lazy as sacks of potatoes, dentistry etc would be out of reach. First of all, they’d have to listen to someone teaching them who might not be IBLP (the horror, the horror), the males might have a female lab partner (help, I’ve been defrauded), and the math and science might be a teeny bit beyond what they learned at the kitchen table. Plus, as you pointed out, for Nathan and Lawson, it’s all about the photo ops. Although, they could photocopy and autograph their student ID cards….. 

[ToriAmos]

I never watched the Bates' show and haven't really followed them up until now—I know the parents left their family size to God's will, but have the kids stated it too? I got the feeling with the Duggars that quiverful was a core part of the family's belief system, and that extended to the kids, but were the Bates like that too?

I must admit, on the surface they seem far less fundamentalist—all the shiny Instagram stuff and high heels and body flaunting isn't something you'd see Joy or Jessa doing. And of course I know they are still hateful, intolerant, uneducated, misogynist, anti-abortion Trumpists, but they seem like quiverful was something their parents were 'called to', and not a prerequisite for their brand of christianity.