2020 Presidential Election 3: We're Down To Old White Men...And Fucking Kanye.

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

This. So much this:

 

From current reported exit interviews, it seems that many are in this same predicament.

[nausicaa]

17 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Ignoring, discarding or minimizing  what large numbers of people and almost entire voting demographics find very important, and especially when mannnnnny Biden voters are also stating that they also support, is exactly why we have a POTUS Trump. It seems some have learned nothing-

I didn't say we should ignore, discard, or minimize anything. I said it's ridiculous to pretend that Sanders has some position of power from which he can "put Biden on notice." Numbers are real, even if they don't go your way. 

Look, I'm not saying Biden should shoot Sanders the double bird and not listen to any of his more popular proposals. But it's going to be difficult to work together if progressives don't approach the (very large) base with honesty about their position and with a dose of some humility. If progressives continue to refuse to acknowledge the reality of these primary numbers, I'd say it shows they have learned nothing.

There really is some epic gas lighting going on from a large contingent of the Sanders crowd right now. I don't understand why the onus is always on the Dem base to do all the work, all the changing, all the listening. "Ignoring, discarding, and minimizing" is what the Sanders campaign has been doing for four years, and is a big part of how this campaign got here. The idea that it's now the Dem establishment that must humble itself and self-reflect, rather than god forbid a Sanders supporter do so for even five minutes, is laughably disingenuous. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by nausicaa

[HerNameIsBuffy]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/bernie-sanders-will-remain-in-race-and-attend-sundays-debate/ar-BB112ZFK?ocid=spartanntp

 

Spoiler

Quote

 

BURLINGTON, Vt. — Senator Bernie Sanders said on Wednesday that he was continuing his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination despite suffering big primary losses this week, and that he planned to attend the scheduled debate on Sunday against former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

Mr. Sanders, appearing at an afternoon news conference here, said he was not quitting the race and wanted to debate Mr. Biden, who handily defeated Mr. Sanders in four states on Tuesday.

Listing a number of the issues on his progressive agenda, he addressed Mr. Biden directly and asked “Joe, what are you going to do?” about issues like health care, income inequality, mass incarceration and the criminal justice system.

“Last night obviously was not a good night for our campaign from a delegate point of view,’’ Mr. Sanders said, referring to losses in four states to Mr. Biden. But he asserted that he was “winning the generational debate,” saying that while Mr. Biden was appealing to older voters, he was drawing younger Americans, and that the party needed to build around the leaders of the future.

“While our campaign has won the ideological debate, we are losing the debate over electability,’’ he said, adding that many people had told him they liked his agenda but were not convinced he could prevail in the general election.

Mr. Sanders left the podium without taking questions.

With over half the delegates still to be allocated, aides to Mr. Sanders said they saw more fertile terrain in the coming weeks. They point out that Mr. Sanders lost Illinois by less than a percentage point four years ago and see strength in Wisconsin and Puerto Rico. Georgia, with its heavily black electorate, will likely go to Mr. Biden, who currently leads Mr. Sanders in delegates, 800 to 660.

Mr. Sanders spent the morning at home with his wife, Jane, on Wednesday, while aides and advisers debated the way forward in his increasingly long-shot campaign. He canceled a scheduled conference call with surrogates, saying in an email to them that it would be rescheduled “so that we can better provide you with the most updated plans for upcoming states,” according to a copy obtained by The New York Times.

Top aides gathered Wednesday morning in the lobby of Burlington’s Hotel Vermont, surrounded by luggage tagged with Mr. Sanders’s name on it as they prepared for an early-afternoon flight to Teterboro, N.J., for the Vermont senator’s scheduled appearance on Jimmy Fallon’s late-night television show. After getting pummeled in the Super Tuesday nominating contests last week, Mr. Sanders incurred a similar drubbing on Tuesday night, including in Michigan, where he had deployed resources and time in a final attempt to regain momentum. Mr. Sanders watched the results at his home with his wife while his aides gathered elsewhere, and later he opted not to make any public remarks.

Mr. Sanders had planned to hold a Friday rally in downstate Illinois, an event that aides now say will not happen because of concerns about the spread of the coronavirus. On Tuesday, he canceled a planned primary night rally in Cleveland. It’s not likely Mr. Sanders will be able to hold his signature rallies — which provide the evidence, as he says regularly, that his is the campaign of energy and enthusiasm — in the immediate future.

 

 

Bolding mine.  He says he's winning the generational debate by drawing younger people...but he's not drawing them to the polls so what difference does it make.

This spin is really showing a lack of awareness of the situation.

[fraurosena]

In a democracy, the majority rules. The person who gets the most votes, decides what they want to do. If they want to unify, or be magnanimous, or want to build coalitions, then it's up to them to decide to reach out. But they are under no obligation whatsoever to pander to the minority, just because they feel hurt and are loud and vociferous about what they want. The losers in a democratic election aren't entitled to anything at all.

As to Sanders losing right now, and still not giving up? In my opinion, that's due to his personal sense of entitlement. He exudes the feeling that he's owed something because he lost the candidacy last time. And I think people are seeing it for what it is, and that's why they're not voting for him.

 

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

He says he's winning the generational debate by drawing younger people...but he's not drawing them to the polls so what difference does it make.

He's saying his ideologies are the best, but people just won't vote for them. Which for any other candidate would be a sign to give up already... 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

As to Sanders losing right now, and still not giving up? In my opinion, that's due to his personal sense of entitlement. He exudes the feeling that he's owed something because he lost the candidacy last time. And I think people are seeing it for what it is, and that's why they're not voting for him.

This.  And it's what many people found so off putting about Hillary.  

[SassyPants]

The US, unfortunately, is not a pure democracy. It is a Democratic Republic. In the presidential general election, chosen representatives actually elect the president.

[nausicaa]

24 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

The US, unfortunately, is not a pure democracy. It is a Democratic Republic. In the presidential general election, chosen representatives actually elect the president.

Yes, and that supports your previous point how? 

Honestly, from a purely strategic point of view, attempting to court more independents and Never Trumpers will probably better help ensure Biden gets to 270. Swing states are demographically older than other states and are not woke. Biden just needs to win over the AARP crowd as well as suburban moms and Obama to Trump voters and he's got this thing locked up. And he is doing wildly better with all of those groups than Sanders is. So why on earth would he want Sanders whispering in his ear?

I'm genuinely wondering if people don't understand the math behind this? I need someone explain to me, in the form of electoral college votes, what Sanders has to bring to this. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by nausicaa

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Yes, and that supports your previous point how? 

Honestly, from a purely strategic point of view, attempting to court more independents and Never Trumpers will probably better help ensure Biden gets to 270. Swing states are demographically older than other states and are not woke. Biden just needs to win over the AARP crowd as well as suburban moms and Obama to Trump voters and he's got this thing locked up. And he is doing wildly better with all of those groups than Sanders is. So why on earth would he want Sanders whispering in his ear?

I'm genuinely wondering if people don't understand the math behind this? I need someone explain to me, in the form of electoral college votes, what Sanders has to bring to this. 

Not speaking for anyone here, but I just closed Reddit in disgust when I read a comment along the lines of 'of course he's not dropping out, he won't abandon his people, go Bernie.'   There are too many people not doing the math.

And IMO he needs to stop saying that he's got the younger generations fired up when they weren't fired up to come out and vote for him in the numbers he needs.  There is a lot of wishful thinking happening now.

 

[CatFriend]

3 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I just really, really want the country to get out of constant crisis mode. 

I hope enough other people want the same thing, that Trump is not re-elected. 

That's what I'm feeling as well. I think if nothing else that should help to get some voters in November as well since I think a lot of people want to get out of crisis mode. I have only really been politically engaged since Trump has been a candidate (2016 was the first election I was able to vote in) and it's so exhausting to hear the various scandals and crises he has put us through. 

[GreyhoundFan]

"Trump will corrupt everything in sight to beat Biden. Here’s what’s next.'

Spoiler

Now that former vice president Joe Biden has cemented his hold on the Democratic nomination, an urgent question has arisen: How far will President Trump go in corrupting the government to smear Biden between now and November?

One Democratic senator — Chris Murphy of Connecticut — has hit on a novel way to try to get ahead of what’s about to happen.

Murphy has formally asked the inspectors general at numerous government agencies to review whether those agencies are selectively cooperating with efforts by Trump’s allies in Congress to launch “investigations” to damage Biden — while refusing cooperation with Democratic oversight efforts directed at Trump.

It’s a reasonable line of inquiry. Senate Republicans are set to take a big step forward with their probe of Hunter Biden, the former vice president’s son. They have sought extensive documents from many agencies in pursuit of this. Those agencies appear to be cooperating.

Yet some of these same agencies either faithfully obeyed Trump’s corrupt demand that they refuse any and all cooperation with House Democrats’ impeachment inquiry, or continue to stiff-arm other Democratic oversight efforts.

So Murphy is asking the inspectors general at several agencies — including the State, Treasury and Homeland Security departments — to investigate this double standard. Murphy’s letter to those IGs asks the following questions:

1. Whether your respective agency cooperated with any congressional requests related to the president’s political opponents, including those associated with Hunter Biden or Burisma;
2. If so, to what extent your agency complied with such requests;
3. Whether your respective agency cooperated with congressional requests related to recent impeachment proceedings or the president’s tax returns;
4. If so, to what extent your agency complied with such requests;
5. Whether there has been a different standard applied to document requests for investigations related to the president’s political opponents and document requests related to investigations of the president.

We already know this is happening. The only question is how bad it is.

Agencies are helping Republicans investigate Hunter Biden

Several agencies may already be cooperating with GOP investigations into Hunter Biden out of multiple committees. But we don’t know exactly what these agencies have turned over, because much remains shrouded in secrecy — which may be the point.

For instance, Senate Democrats on the Finance Committee have warned that the Treasury Department has turned over various financial records supposedly relevant to Hunter Biden. Democrats have declined to say what the committee obtained. But Treasury is plainly cooperating with GOP demands to some degree.

This is the same Treasury Department that has long refused to turn over Trump’s tax returns to a Democratic House committee, in violation of the law.

Meanwhile, Republicans on the Senate Homeland Security Committee are demanding extensive documents from the State Department to further their ongoing investigation into Hunter.

This piece of the investigation may be the most live one. The Homeland Security Committee will vote Wednesday to subpoena a key witness against Hunter Biden — a Ukrainian political consultant for the company representing Burisma (on whose board Hunter sat) in the U.S.

Two Hunter Biden narratives

Republicans appear to be pursuing two narratives about Hunter Biden. The first is that as vice president, Joe Biden ousted a Ukrainian prosecutor to protect Burisma and Hunter. In reality, ousting the prosecutor had nothing to do with protecting Burisma and Hunter. It was U.S. anti-corruption policy backed by international institutions and by Republicans.

The second narrative appears to hold that Hunter Biden traded on his family connection to influence State Department policy toward Burisma. But the GOP materials themselves show that thus far, there’s little there. All Republicans have established is that a U.S. representative for Burisma dangled Hunter Biden’s name in trying to lobby the State Department.

There’s no indication yet that Hunter Biden played any role in that lobbying or that it changed State Department policy. While there are good reasons to criticize Hunter Biden’s Burisma role, and while more might emerge about him, Republicans are very far away from tying any of this to Joe Biden himself.

But Republicans are casting a wide net to dredge up whatever they can on Hunter Biden. And government agencies appear willing to assist — while simultaneously protecting Trump from legitimate Democratic-run oversight.

Trump is corrupting everything

There’s a crucial principle at stake here. Trump and his allies treat congressional oversight solely as something to be weaponized against political enemies even as he maximally refuses cooperation with it himself. This upends the balance in which coequal branches of government operate as checks on one another for the public good — all to benefit Trump.

“Agencies throughout the government are systematically stonewalling just about every effort at oversight,” Noah Bookbinder, the executive director for Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, told me. “This has been what the president has said he wanted the government to do.”

“And yet, when his allies find something they want to investigate that would be helpful to the president, it appears agencies have been quick to comply,” Bookbinder continued. “There’s really a directive that agencies should see their role as helping the president.”

All this comes as Trump has placed the government at the disposal of his reelection in numerous ways.

Trump dangled official acts to extort Ukraine into helping validate his fake Biden narratives. Numerous agencies (including State) helped rebuff congressional efforts to get to the bottom of it. Some worked to bury the whistleblower complaint exposing the scheme.

Meanwhile, Trump’s attorney general is working to absolve Russia of 2016 electoral sabotage — potentially paving the way for Trump to benefit from more outside interference — even opening a pipeline for “information” from Trump’s personal lawyer to do so.

It’s unclear whether the inspectors general will honor Sen. Murphy’s request. But either way, this glaring double-game has now been placed squarely on the national agenda for extensive scrutiny.

And not a moment too soon. Because now that Biden is the all-but-certain Democratic nominee, this will only get a lot worse.

 

[Rachel333]

I saw this shared on reddit and thought it was a pretty good explanation of why Bernie lost.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

From E.J. Dionne: "What should alarm Trump about Biden’s success"

Spoiler

2020 is not 2016. That is very good news for Joe Biden, sad news for Bernie Sanders and deeply disturbing news for President Trump.

The differences between the two elections are why the former vice president won resounding victories in Tuesday’s primaries in Michigan, Mississippi and Missouri, and why he is now in a nearly impregnable position in the Democratic presidential contest.

Biden is showing strengths at this stage of the campaign that Hillary Clinton, the party’s 2016 nominee, did not. And he is pushing Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont, back into his core vote among the young and the left end of the Democratic electorate. Far from expanding, the Sanders electorate is shrinking.

What should alarm supporters of Trump is Biden’s success in rural and small-town counties in Michigan that Clinton lost to Sanders in 2016. Trump, whose 2016 victory margin over Clinton in Michigan was just over 10,000 votes, cannot afford any deterioration of his support in these areas that formed his base.

Just as disturbing for Republican strategists is a shift away from Sanders and toward Biden among Michigan’s white voters, upscale and blue collar alike. In 2016, Sanders carried white college graduates by a decent margin and whites without college degrees by even more. On Tuesday, both groups swung to Biden.

And if Trump’s backing among his core groups is in jeopardy, Democrats are energized in their opposition to him not simply from discontent but from outright anger. For example, among the voters in Michigan, better than 6 in 10 told the Edison Media Research exit poll that the Trump administration made them angry. Almost all of the rest said they were dissatisfied.

Thus, in primary after primary, Democratic voters have made clear that ridding the nation of Trump matters more to them than any particular issue. This was true again in Michigan, Missouri and Mississippi, and the voters who prioritize finding someone who can oust Trump flocked to Biden.

Whatever his shortcomings, Biden does not appear to arouse the same passionate opposition that Clinton did. That at least some of the hostility to her was rooted in sexism is inarguable. A long campaign by Republicans to undermine her certainly took its toll.

The upshot is that when Clinton narrowly lost the Michigan primary to Sanders four years ago, 40 percent of those surveyed by exit pollsters answered “no” when asked if she was “honest and trustworthy.” Only 11 percent offered this negative verdict on Sanders, and that was one key to his upset victory.

But without Clinton to run against, Sanders’s candidacy is much weaker. It’s now clear from the primaries so far that many of Sanders’s 2016 ballots came from voters who did not necessarily agree with his progressive-populist political views but were motivated by hostility to Clinton.

It should be said that Biden’s backers were not of the ecstatic sort — just 3 in 10 among Michigan’s voters said they would be enthusiastic if Biden won the nomination. But another 4 in 10 said they would be satisfied if he were the nominee — and just 1 in 10 said this would upset them. The vast outpouring for Biden over the past two weeks is thus an affair of the head at least as much as of the heart. It reflects a quiet judgment that Biden is a safe choice who will not alienate voters Democrats need against Trump.

“Tonight, we are a step closer to restoring decency, dignity and honor to the White House,” Biden said in Philadelphia, where he was speaking after canceling a rally in response to the rising coronavirus threat. He spoke not boastfully but calmly and deliberately. In so doing, he underscored what he hopes to portray in the coming weeks as his strengths in contrast to Trump’s flailing in the face of a global health emergency.

Tuesday’s outcomes present Sanders with several quandaries. There are still plenty of delegates to fight for, and Sanders hopes that his own strength (or Biden’s weaknesses) in this Sunday’s debate will offer a chance to turn the race around. But the upcoming primaries are not promising terrain for Sanders.

He may thus soon have to decide if his candidacy is now more about advancing his issues than winning the nomination. And he will also have to make a judgment as to whether he should campaign hard against Biden, or begin to turn to the task of pulling the party together for the coming battle against Trump. It now seems clear that a majority of Democrats wants him to choose the second path.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

A good one from Dana Milbank: "The Bernie Sanders spoiler campaign begins"

Spoiler

Let me be perfectly clear: Sen. Bernie Sanders has lost the Democratic presidential nomination.

Barring Joe Biden forgetting his own name or being made into a hamburger by anti-dairy activists, Sanders has no credible chance after another primary-night trouncing on Tuesday. What Sanders did in Burlington, Vt., on Wednesday, therefore, was not a continuation of his presidential campaign but the beginning of a new campaign: that of spoiler.

And so today, I begin a new feature: the Spoiler Watch. It will track the campaign of vanity and self-aggrandizement the once-idealistic Sanders candidacy has now become. Everything Sanders does from this point on — until he eventually (hopefully) throws his support to Biden — will be to the benefit of a grateful President Trump.

Trump won the presidency, in part, because disaffected Sanders voters never embraced Hillary Clinton after the Vermont independent’s scorched-earth campaign in the 2016 primary. Now, he’s poised to do it again. He must not be allowed to succeed.

Sanders, in his speech on Wednesday, began with the right tone: “Donald Trump is the most dangerous president in the modern history of our country and he must be defeated.”

Sanders then went on to focus on Biden, naming the Democrat 13 times (compared to four mentions of Trump).

“Joe, what are you going to do?” Sanders asked, over and over, announcing his intention to re-litigate in Sunday’s debate the same issues — health care, income inequality, climate change — that have been debated thoughtfully and thoroughly to date.

Sanders admitted that Tuesday “was obviously not a good night” and that “we are currently losing the delegate count” and the “electability” argument. But, as in 2016, he said people should focus on things other than delegates.

“Poll after poll, including exit polls, show that a strong majority of the American people support our progressive agenda,” he declared, and “we are winning the generational debate.”

Sanders returned to his old chestnut about a phantom Democratic “establishment” conspiring to deprive him of what is rightly his. “Today, I say to the Democratic establishment: In order to win in the future, you need to win the voters who represent the future” and not “simply be satisfied by winning the votes of people who are older.”

Thankfully, Sanders’s tone was not as caustic as it has been. But it takes a certain amount of chutzpah for a guy to cite polls when the polls that actually matter — primaries — have gone emphatically against him. It takes even more chutzpah for a guy who has held office for 40 years (30 in Congress) to pretend he’s not part of the political firmament. And it’s the pinnacle of chutzpah to suggest that he alone speaks for young people when there’s little evidence of the youth revolution he advertised.

To the extent turnout is up in the 2020 primaries over 2016, it seems to be to the advantage of Biden. While Sanders had momentum against Clinton in 2016, the momentum now belongs to the former vice president. Yes, Sanders has done better among young voters, but when you put the whole Democratic electorate together — young, old, black, white, brown, liberal, moderate, urban, suburban — Biden has come out the clear winner.

To overcome Biden’s delegate lead, The Post’s Philip Bump calculates, Sanders would need to beat Biden by an average of 12 percentage points in remaining contests. But Sanders trails Biden nationally by nearly 20 percentage points and by 40 points in Florida, which votes next week.

Sanders could have declared victory Wednesday and dropped out of the race. He has succeeded in pushing the Democratic Party to the left, and his differences with Biden are less about ends than means. As Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), a Sanders supporter, said this week: “Bernie Sanders won the idea primary.”

Yet Sanders, instead, extends the fight. Only ugliness this way lies.

There will be more of the suggestions from Sanders’s supporters that the gaffe-prone Biden is senile. There will be more conspiracy theories about the hidden hand of the establishment — not actual voters — powering Biden’s victory. And there will be more of what Elizabeth Warren called the “organized nastiness” from Sanders’s supporters.

In exit polls on Tuesday in Michigan, Missouri and Washington, 8 in 10 Sanders supporters said they would support the eventual nominee. If the goal is to beat Trump, Sanders should be persuading the two holdouts to support Biden, not encouraging bitterness among the eight.

Khanna and others who endorsed Sanders now risk being enablers of his spoiler campaign. They ought to remind him of the promise he made just last month: “If I, or anybody else, goes into the Democratic convention with a substantial plurality, I believe that individual, me or anybody else, should be the candidate of the Democratic Party.”

Excluding the unimaginable, Biden will be that candidate. Every day Sanders delays the party’s healing is a contribution-in-kind to Trump.

 

[nausicaa]

Biden has won Washington state. 35% to 33.7%. The biggest surprise is Biden actually won King County. 

With the reality of coronavirus becoming so more serious in the past 24 hours, does Sanders digging his heels in over this become even more distasteful? Granted, I'm totally biased here. 

I understand people in remaining states wanting their votes to be heard, but with the clusterfuck that is so many overcrowded polling places, it seems irresponsible to keep this up when Sanders has no path to the nomination. I hope he at least drops out after taking his last stand in this debate. 

 

[Alisamer]

I thought this was interesting enough to share:

I spoke at length with my father last night, about the primary and upcoming campaign. He's a boomer, a farmer, a southerner, lifelong blue collar worker, Christian who goes to church every Sunday and has his whole life. I suspect he mostly watches local news and possibly Fox sometimes, but just to stay somewhat informed - if he's choosing what's on TV it's American Pickers or some large animal veterinarian show. He does not have a smart phone or any social media. He only very recently learned how to use the internet with help, and that is only to order parts online for things he is repairing. He may be registered as Republican, I don't know, but I'm fairly certain he has always voted republican.

He mostly didn't like Trump much (he's not a fan of "richie rich" people who are afraid to get their hands dirty), and I think he chose deliberately not to vote in the last presidential election (he may have voted for the downticket races and left the presidential vote blank, however). He and my mother did not participate in this primary, because "they didn't know anybody else was running" (I took that to mean "we'd have done the Republican one, but Trump's already the candidate").  

He said "I'm glad it wasn't that Bernie guy winning". To him, Bernie seems crazy and frantic. Biden comes off as calmer, steadier, able to lead. He likes that Biden is willing to delegate to people who know what they are doing rather than "having to be number 1" like Trump. He is curious to see who will be the VP on the ticket, and when I said it would probably be a woman he shrugged and said he "doesn't have a problem with a woman being VP". (He has three daughters and no sons, and often brags to his friends that we were able to do anything any boy could do around the farm and helping in the shop.)

Based on my conversation with him, I think he'd prefer a decent republican candidate, but is willing to vote for Biden. He would never vote for Bernie. 

Do I think that Biden (or anyone) should pander to voters like him - decent hardworking people who lean republican but dislike Trump? Well, no. But I do think Biden, simply by being rational, calm, level-headed, and apparently willing to actually work rather than watch TV and play golf all day, can win over some of those voters. When we get closer to the election in November, I'm going to keep encouraging my dad to vote for Biden, and I think he probably will do it.

I really think that Biden has a chance to defeat Trump, especially if people like my dad are willing to vote for him. I think people as a whole want a president who is respectable and level-headed in a crisis, who are willing to get out of the way and trust the people they appoint to handle things beyond their own knowledge and experience. I think while "safe" is boring, "safe" might be exactly what people are willing to vote for right now. 

TL/DR: My dad is exactly the demographic you'd expect to vote for Trump, but is willing to vote for Biden, and thinks Bernie is crazy.

[GreyhoundFan]

Aunt Crabby, as usual, nails it:

 

 

 

[Marmion]

To any die hard hardcore Bernie SanderZlg upporters who may read this , I have  only this to say .  First of all , I know that you likely do not like me .  You might even think that I am some sort of petit-bourgeis revisionist sell out .  But let me just put it in terms you might understand , especially if you like me , believe it or not , are from the ideological tradition of Marxism . What is needed now in the U.S.A. is not a vanguard , or for that matter an united front , but rather a popular front .  And the person we need to head up this broadbased coalition is not Bernie Sanders . Whether or not it's fair , the multitude of voters feel that Sanders is a hard left , hardline ideologue , whom cannot build the necessary consensus to govern this country , and enact the progressive agenda we all need , and deserve .  And while I had been thinking , and hoping that the consensus candidate who would head the ticket would be a someone I consider to be a solid social democrat , such as Elizabeth Warren , or even Pete Buttigieg , the Democratic primary voters have settled upon the centrist moderate , Joe Biden .  I feel therefore that all sincere progressive Democrats must now come together and rally behind Biden in the common cause of taking back the White House , and from there the Congress .  The point should not be to shove socialism down the throats of an unwilling American public , but rather to meet them where they are , and abide by the will of the people , while continuing to make the case for as much needed social change as the constitutional framwork will permit . It takes time to build a movement . But I believe that the progressive left as a whole , and specifically democratic socialists /communists have gained ground .  Now socialism is no longer a loaded negative byword , but rather is generating favorable interest .  In closing , I will just remind all like minded people of this passage from The Communist Manifesto . 

Quote

In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.

In all these movements, they bring to the front, as the leading question in each, the property question, no matter what its degree of development at the time.

Finally, they labour everywhere for the union and agreement of the democratic parties of all countries.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch04.htm  P. S. I was impressed by the magnanimous remarks made by Biden , especially when compared with previous victory speeches , he's made  . https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/10/democratic-primaries-joe-biden-bernie-sanders?fbclid=IwAR0-ZiC9IOLvDnxjnvEeY6Bt30SiCnO3clay9oF9EqFl8tav1qMQCpUOrhs  I hope that he will have the good political sense to pick as his running mate someone to broaden the base of support , and balance the ticket . Someone like Stacy Abrams , for instance . But I recognize that I am in no position to be giving ultimatums .  

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Marmion
The videos I posted were from other prior speeches .

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Marmion said:

But let me just put it in terms you might understand , especially if you like me , believe it or not , are from the ideological tradition of Marxism .

Geoff Botkin! Is that you?

More seriously, Biden's coronavirus speech, given earlier today, seemed pretty cogent to me. The actual speech starts after 33:00.

Edited March 13, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Smee]

On 3/12/2020 at 5:18 AM, SassyPants said:

Ignoring, discarding or minimizing  what large numbers of people and almost entire voting demographics find very important, and especially when mannnnnny Biden voters are also stating that they also support, is exactly why we have a POTUS Trump. It seems some have learned nothing-

No, you have a POTUS Trump because the electoral college voted for him. And if you want to get rid of him, you need the electoral college to vote for someone else.
 

That’s it. That’s the game. There simply aren’t enough progressive voters to do that without the moderates and never trumpers. Biden’s job now is to win the general; the progressives’ job is to elect a fuckton of progressives in Congress who will then work with Biden to get their stuff done. Bernie’s job is to continue fighting for his causes in the senate, mentor up and coming young progressives, and to continue to push his agenda from within his sphere of influence- which is not as a Presidential candidate anymore.

 

[anxiety] Is anyone else concerned that Coronavirus is most deadly to people over 70 and campaign events are risky for the candidates, as well as the attendees? What happens if Biden is hospitalised, or worse? What happens if Bernie is too? Who becomes the presumptive nominee - is it just whoever Biden picks for VP? There are many months between now and November and a pandemic isn’t going to discriminate based on political import. [/anxiety]

[CatFriend]

56 minutes ago, Smee said:

[anxiety] Is anyone else concerned that Coronavirus is most deadly to people over 70 and campaign events are risky for the candidates, as well as the attendees? What happens if Biden is hospitalised, or worse? What happens if Bernie is too? Who becomes the presumptive nominee - is it just whoever Biden picks for VP? There are many months between now and November and a pandemic isn’t going to discriminate based on political import. [/anxiety]

I just came over to the thread with this exact thought. Everyone in this race is so old, what if something happens to all of them? How would that work? 

I also can't help but wonder what this is going to do to the remaining primaries. Will people still turn up to vote if they are scared they are going to get the coronavirus? What if this (god forbid) still going on in November? What happens to turnout for the election? I know these aren't easy questions to answer and I really have no clue what to do with any of this stuff. 

[AmericanRose]

Well, I just went down a rabbit hole to see what happened during the Spanish Flu re: elections, and damn. The US used to be so much more... diverse! It looks like all states were in play pre-1980, instead of just a few 'swing' states.

Hmm.. in 1916, voter turnout was at 61.6%. 1920, it was at 49.2% - the Spanish flu pandemic is listed as ending December 1920.

Wow. In the 1876 election, 81.8% of the population managed to vote. Of course, Hayes still won via electoral college (by 1 delegate).

[fraurosena]

As to COVID19 and the elections:

• Biden and Sanders are both nearly octogenarians, and therefore are both in an at risk category. Sanders also has problems with his heart, making him doubly at risk. Let's hope their taking all possible precautions.
• The virus is on it's way out in China. If I recall correctly, it started there in December? If so, and if the virus follows the same trajectory in other countries as it has in China, it will take about 4 months to get over the worst of it after the first cases were confirmed. I am leaving out the manner in which a country chooses to combat the pandemic though, and that will have a major impact on the duration of the virus taking hold of society. That means primaries will be affected, but the general possibly may not.
• COVID19 will not affect the whole country all at once. However, it does have the capability to disrupt society for quite some time. Although, as I said above, it could well be that the general elections won't be affected as much by the time we hit November, now would be the time to start thinking about which measures to take if voting should become difficult in November. States should be thinking about mail in ballots or some such, to enable voting despite not being able to get to polling stations.

[GreyhoundFan]

The wonderfully snarky Alexandra Petri's take on things: "I would vote for Biden were it not for his aggressive online army of supporters"

Spoiler

I think you just need to ask yourself if this is the kind of movement you want.

I agree with everything Joe Biden is for: having been in the Obama administration, incremental change, vague and gauzy nostalgia. I align with him on Medicare-for-some, on restoring the soul of America and on Corn Pops. I ardently oppose everything that Bernie Sanders favors. With so much in common, why hesitate?

There’s just one word for it: the Biden Boys. Or two words. Three, if you include the “the.” My personal experience with them has been nothing short of a nightmare. My mailbox, my physical mailbox, as we speak, is full of typewritten letters that call me a “lying dog-faced pony soldier.” Every time I try to engage on the issues, someone challenges me — in aggressive terms — to a push-up contest. Do these people speak for you, Joe Biden?

I want to be able to critique my candidate without being told, “C’mon, man!”

This could just be me, but I think it speaks volumes. I think these ardent Bidenites have to ask themselves if this is really the foot they want to put forward — filling my mentions with drawings of the state of Delaware looking angry and sending me envelopes filled with Carter’s Little Liver Pills. I truly don’t know what these are, and I don’t feel welcome!

I know that other people online have had very different experiences than I have had and yet are still managing to align with candidates whose supporters have not exactly rolled out a welcome mat for them. Bully for them! But someone spat the word “malarkey” in a cutting tone in my voicemail inbox, and now as a consequence, I have reevaluated all my positions on everything and — maybe I’m a socialist, actually! I’m as surprised as anyone. Think about that before you drop another commuter train emoji in my mentions.

I think we have to wonder what motivates this kind of behavior. Something makes these people comment, “Do you even KNOW Barack Obama?” on all my social media posts. Something makes these barbershop quartets form outside my apartment window and complain in close harmony that I must want insurance companies to die. It just seems counterproductive for the movement, and I also wonder where they find the time to rehearse. But what does it say that I can’t be even mildly critical of Joe without receiving several irate faxes from people who think I won’t even be able to have dates after I’m 30?

I think this kind of rot spreads from the top. You see a candidate who not only doesn’t disavow these Malarkey Men but who himself calls people “a horse’s ass” and replies to their critiques with, “Don’t tell me that, pal, or I’m going to go outside with you, man.” So much for civility! Keep this up, and I might discover I’m a Republican!

 

[fraurosena]

The latest from the Lincoln Project.

 

[Rachel333]

Well Bernie won the Northern Mariana Islands caucus! There were 134 people total who caucused there. 

This wording was funny to me:

Quote

 

Sen. Bernie Sanders won the Northern Mariana Islands Democratic presidential caucus, grabbing four of the six delegates Saturday.

Former Vice President Joe Biden won the other two. This shrinks Biden’s lead to 154 delegates in The Associated Press delegate count.

 

It "shrinks Biden's lead" by all of two delegates. 

Bizarrely, Bernie's campaign is opening up five campaign offices in Pennsylvania. A lot of people have been pretty optimistic about what he's doing, saying he's just staying in for the debate to discuss the issues with Biden, but this makes it seem like he's really trying to drag this campaign out again even though he has virtually no chance of winning.