2020 Presidential Election 3: We're Down To Old White Men...And Fucking Kanye.

[Alisamer]

21 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Boring might be best for beating Trump. People are tired of drama. 

I agree. I think most moderate people, even some Republicans, might be willing to vote for boring. Biden is a known quantity, experienced, and seems quite kind and empathetic. After four years of essentially daily lies and scandals, boring might be a good thing.

1 hour ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Biden wasn't in my top five choices when this all began. However, I will gladly vote for him to get rid of the orange shit stain. I don't know how good he would be at the job, but I do think he'll surround himself with knowledgeable and able people who can get the country on a better track.

Biden wasn't my fave either, but I absolutely will vote for him. He'll bring in people who know how to do their jobs, and most likely let congress actually get some real work done, hopefully. (Whether they'll do it or stamp their feet like obstinate toddlers like Republicans did with Obama is another matter altogether.)

Yeah, I'd prefer Warren or Bernie, and I think it's a few decades past time we tried to catch up with the rest of the Western world in health care and other issues. But if it takes 4-8 years of boring, I'll take it. At this point a Democratic president's first year or 2 at least will be spent repairing the damage done by Trump, no matter who it is. 

Blue no matter who. Seriously. 

I do hope we finally, finally get a female VP, however. It's past time.

[SPHASH]

22 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

 

"Biden will pick a woman as his running mate. But who?"

  Reveal hidden contents

Picking a vice president is always about winning the election. If you lose, it won’t matter who goes down with you.

But for the Democratic nominee this year, good politics matches good governance as never before, because voters’ No. 1 question will be: Is this vice presidential nominee ready to be president?

And if, as seems likely today, former vice president Joe Biden heads the ticket, voters will have a second, related question: Would we want this vice presidential nominee as our standard-bearer in 2024?

Because, whether he says so aloud or not, the best outcome for Biden and the country would be a one-term presidency that restores decency to the White House and faith to U.S. alliances, and then gives way to a new generation. The person nominated for vice president in Milwaukee in July instantly becomes the front-runner in 2024.

Two consequences flow from that.

The veep choice is sometimes thought of as a way to balance the ticket ideologically and heal a party. But if Biden, or Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) for that matter, essentially anointed someone from the wing of the party that opposes him, the depth of his own convictions would be immediately suspect.

Second, the choice should, and almost surely will, be a woman. After watching a diverse field of promising candidates dwindle to two old white men, Democratic voters will insist on that.

But . . . which woman?

As with the vast presidential field a year ago, there is a surfeit of talent. And as with that field, when you start to examine possibilities one by one, inevitably you see weaknesses as well as strengths. That’s human nature.

You start with the senators who gained stature and name recognition competing on the presidential stage: Kirsten Gillibrand (N.Y.), Kamala D. Harris (Calif.), Amy Klobuchar (Minn.), Elizabeth Warren (Mass.). The flip side: They all lost, and they all had time to rub at least some voters the wrong way.

Then maybe you look to the governors. Gina Raimondo of Rhode Island is one of the most capable, in her second term, with a record of solving hard problems without demonizing her opponents. Flip side: Biden can probably lock down Rhode Island’s four electoral votes without Raimondo’s help.

Michelle Lujan Grisham was elected governor of New Mexico in 2018, and she knows Washington, too, having served three terms in the House. She is the first Democratic Latina to be elected as a governor, and she is a 12th-generation New Mexican from a storied political family. On the other hand, outside New Mexico she is not a household name.

Gretchen Whitmer was also elected governor in 2018, in Michigan — the heartland, where the battle between Biden and President Trump will be truly joined. Her campaign slogan was “fix the damn roads,” which isn’t all that far from Biden’s governing philosophy and won her some notice beyond Michigan. But her entire political career has been in Lansing; will voters be satisfied with a Biden understudy without foreign or national security chops?

If the answer is yes, there’s almost-governor Stacey Abrams, who lost a close election in 2018 in Georgia. Nearly everyone who knows her or hears her comes away impressed. But will voters consider six years as minority leader of the state House of Representatives in Georgia sufficient preparation?

If so, then maybe a mayor? If City Hall-to-White House was plausible for Pete Buttigieg and Mike Bloomberg, how about Washington’s Muriel E. Bowser, in her second term, or Chicago’s Lori Lightfoot? True, she was only elected last year, but she is older than some of these other candidates, with experience as a prosecutor and a leader in police accountability.

Probably the winner will be none of the above. The political universe is wide.

But there can be no compromising on a couple of fronts. John McCain seriously undermined his credibility as Republican presidential nominee in 2008 when he chose Alaska governor Sarah Palin as his running mate.

Had he won, McCain would have been 72 when sworn in — middle-aged by this year’s standards, but old enough that voters expected him to pick a running mate ready to be commander in chief. When Palin failed that test in early vetting, McCain’s own judgment was questioned.

Biden, who will turn 78 shortly after the election, will be held to the same expectation: Choose someone who is ready — and who shares your political outlook.

The promise of Biden’s campaign is to fight for progress, not revolution; to value inclusion, not whipping up the base; and to return a basic goodness to U.S. political leadership. His running mate has to embody that promise, too.

 

I'm hoping Amy or Kamala.  If he picks Kamala then I would like Preet Bhara (sp) as AG, then Adam Schiff or Maxine Waters to replace her in the Senate.  If he picks Amy then I want So Franken to replace her in the Senate, then Kamala can be AG and her Senate replacement mentioned above.

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, milkteeth said:

Haven't you heard? Turns out Biden isn't going to need young or progressive voters to win in November. The only voters he needs or that matter are moderates over the age of 60 and Trump will be sent packing. It's a tried and true strategy Democrats love coming back to election after election. 

I haven't seen a single person, on here or elsewhere, say this. 

In your very next paragraph, you push meeting people where they are at and not to bully or shame them, and don't see the hypocrisy of throwing out a dismissive generalization like this?

I don't even understand your point with the sarcastic "tried and true strategy" comment. Biden is building the same coalition of black voters plus college-educated white suburban voters that Obama built. You know, the coalition that took the latter to victory in 2008 and 2012? What is so stupid about repeating a winning strategy?

And yes, the fact of the matter is, Biden probably won't need young voters (18-29, not "anyone under 60"--which again, no one ever said) to win in the general. They just aren't turning out.  I certainly wish they would participate more in the civic process, but since they aren't, older demographics carry more weight in elections. That's math; not feelings.

[GreyhoundFan]

From Jennifer Rubin: "There’s fierce competition in the Democratic race — for VP"

Spoiler

On the eve of the Michigan primary, former vice president Joe Biden arrived in Detroit for a rally. He brought along a trio of rising Democratic stars: Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, Sen. Cory Booker (N.J.) and Sen. Kamala D. Harris (Calif.). Harris remains one of the most dynamic and charismatic figures in the party and received the most enthusiastic reception. (It was telling that she was third to come onstage, right before Biden.)

She redeployed some of her best stanzas from her own campaign on Biden’s behalf. “Justice is on the ballot. Economic justice is on the ballot. Reproductive justice is on the ballot. Health-care justice is on the ballot. Environmental justice is on the ballot. Racial justice is on the ballot,” she declared. “And Joe Biden is on the ballot!”

She also made a new and compelling argument: President Trump is counting on demoralizing Americans. “There has been a conscious attempt to try to disillusion us,” she said. “Saying that we cannot trust our democracy. Powerful forces trying to say, ‘You don’t matter, so don’t participate.’” She might have added: Powerful forces trying to tell you there is no objective reality.

Most effectively, Harris recounted how she got to know Biden through his son Beau, when the two were attorneys general in their respective states, California and Delaware, in the wake of the financial meltdown. Even though Delaware was not as hard-hit, she recalled, Beau stood with her against the predatory banks. She admired Beau’s courage and added, “It’s a rare thing to see such a special relationship with a father and his son.”

Biden quite deliberately offers himself as a transition figure to a new generation of exciting, pragmatic progressives. He told the crowd as he gestured to his three surrogates: “I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. They are the future of this country." Ironically, it might be the vice-presidential pick that generates a sense of change and possibility on a ticket where the top name provides the competence, moral grounding and unifying spirit to clean up after the Trump years.

Biden was interrupted twice during his comments by protesters whom Biden dismissed as Bernie Bros. However, he was the one, he told the crowd, who turned out voters and generated the excitement, rattling off the turnout numbers for several Super Tuesday states.

The interruptions unintentionally underscored a message Biden delivered later in his remarks. “We cannot become like them,” he said, referring to Trump (but in words equally applicable to the Sanders crowd). “I refuse to accept the notion we can’t get anything done unless we crush the other party.”

That message serves as an important contrast between Biden and his lone rival. Biden wants to heal; Sanders wants to fight — including within the Democratic Party. Biden speaks to a deep well of desire among voters to end the ranting and raving, the lies, the cruelty and the boorishness that characterize the Trump era. They are tired of angry old men.

Democratic primary voters are telling us by overwhelming numbers that they want kindness and unity, not rudeness and division. Especially with the country on the verge of a devastating pandemic and an economic slump, the aversion to impulsive, volatile politicians is understandable. And if voters want a little excitement, Biden points out, there are a flock of bright, younger faces ready to join Biden’s ticket.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

14 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Most effectively, Harris recounted how she got to know Biden through his son Beau, when the two were attorneys general in their respective states, California and Delaware, in the wake of the financial meltdown. Even though Delaware was not as hard-hit, she recalled, Beau stood with her against the predatory banks.

My goodness.  I hope she's prepared to explain this time why she refused to prosecute Steven Mnuchin for his role in the predatory bank crisis and violating foreclosure laws.  

 

[fraurosena]

43 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Biden quite deliberately offers himself as a transition figure to a new generation of exciting, pragmatic progressives. He told the crowd as he gestured to his three surrogates: “I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. They are the future of this country." Ironically, it might be the vice-presidential pick that generates a sense of change and possibility on a ticket where the top name provides the competence, moral grounding and unifying spirit to clean up after the Trump years.

I heard Biden say on MSNBC (I think it was on The Last Word) that he plans to delegate a chunk of the presidential work to his VP, like Obama did. To me that is an additional sign that his running mate is going to be very important. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Gretchen Whitmar?  I know nothing about her, off to google.

[Marmion]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on Gretchen Whitmar?  I know nothing about her, off to google.

From Wikipedia , in regards to her healthcare position . 

Quote

The gubernatorial election and national conversation during Whitmer's time in office focused largely on healthcare. During the gubernatorial election, she was the only Democratic candidate not to support a single-payer healthcare system.[27] As governor, she has focused on women's healthcare and Medicaid expansion.[24]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer#Tenure  

Quote

Whitmer has said she would fight Republican efforts to take away protections for patients with preexisting conditions. In the State Senate, Whitmer successfully worked to expand Medicaid coverage in the state. She has spoken against single-payer healthcare as unrealistic. She has stated she would work to lower the cost of prescription drugs, and would get rid of Shuette's drug immunity law, which she believes protects drug companies from legal trouble if their drugs harm or kill people.[37]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer#Health_care  So make of that what you will . 

[SassyPants]

I don’t think Harris will get the nod. She is from CA, a Democrat given for the GE.  He needs a VP from a swing state and I’m not sure a woman is a safe bet. For whatever reason, Americans do not seem to want a woman anywhere near the top of the ticket. I also think Biden might go with a Latino, to secure that vote.

[Rachel333]

Wow, it's not even close in Mississippi, Missouri, and even Michigan.

[Rachel333]

Wow.

 

[nausicaa]

6 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Wow.

 

Good God. 

He is also doing really well so far with working class whites in Michigan. He was beating Sanders even before the votes from Detroit came rolling in. 

I'm sorry but anyone who is losing the black vote by 71% (and who may not even reach 15% in the Florida primary) was never a viable Democratic candidate. Social media basically took a geographically niche campaign and convinced us it was nationally viable. 

I think Sanders appealing to certain groups in New England and the West Coast with higher education levels and social media savvy (and living in places that generally receive more media attention) made it appear to everyone that this movement was much stronger and geographically larger than it actually was. I think this is Example A in how social media skews our perception of things. (Not just political things. Everything.) I'm just not sure how we counteract this skewing. 

So, will Sanders drop out tonight now that the math is undeniable? I can't imagine if he has a foot left in reality that he wants to face the rout awaiting him in Florida. 

Also I just saw someone on Twitter call Sanders a libertarian and I think I have the vapors now. 

[Rachel333]

Bernie is flying home to Vermont and isn't even going to make a speech tonight. I wonder if he actually is going to drop out soon.

[nausicaa]

43 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Bernie is flying home to Vermont and isn't even going to make a speech tonight. I wonder if he actually is going to drop out soon.

I don't think Sanders is quite "hug a flag and talk to it"  delusional. I imagine he's awaiting the results from Washington state and then will drop out if Biden wins that by even a small margin. 

 

ETA: It's still possible that Biden has won every single county in Michigan, Missouri, and Mississippi. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by nausicaa

[AmericanRose]

I dropped my vote in the mail for Warren the day before she dropped out. And thus ended what little emotional investment I had placed in the election. 

Re: Sanders & Biden, I take a pragmatic approach. They both have good and bad points, and Trump will shamelessly lie about whoever is the nominee either way. Though every one I've spoken to IRL is a Bernie supporter, I never really believed he would be the nominee... and I think it will still be okay. My main focus is on Congress. A Democratic President won't get anything done with a Republican anything, and a Democratic Congress could properly investigate Trump (and Pence) and remove them.

ETA: My main feeling at the moment is a mixture between disappointment and incredulity that we're down to old white men. Again. Do we really have nothing else to offer?

Edited March 11, 2020 by AmericanRose

[Maggie Mae]

Last I looked, Sanders was winning every county I've ever lived in for more than 6 months in Michigan. 

I hate this system. I was so excited to have so many choices for the primary and now there won't even be two by the time my turn comes up. We are already completely fucked in the general election - it's what happens when your state is 4 hours behind the east coast and media outlets decide who won and announce it while you are standing in line after work. Most of my state doesn't even vote because of this. I saw a precinct in 2016 with 4. Not 4%, four people turned up. And it was a high income area in the largest city.

So yeah, four more years of trump, I guess. Let's let southern states who will never vote for a Democrat change the course of the primary. 

[nausicaa]

9 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Last I looked, Sanders was winning every county I've ever lived in for more than 6 months in Michigan. 

As of two minutes ago, Sanders was only narrowly leading in two Michigan counties (Kent and Ingham).

 

9 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

So yeah, four more years of trump, I guess. 

Why does this ensure four more years of Trump? I'm not saying Biden is definitely going to win the gen, but I don't know why we're so sure he's going to lose. Especially as compared to Sanders who had terrible turnout in his key demographics. 

 

9 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Let's let southern states who will never vote for a Democrat change the course of the primary. 

You understand you're basically saying "Why do black people get to have a say in the direction of the primary"? 

And I'm not sure how much this primary changed course just because of racking up previous wins. With such a show of overwhelming support for Biden across so many groups, I think we (supporters and non-supporters alike) have to acknowledge that Sanders' message did not resonate with many, many Dem voters from the beginning. Even Sanders' mail in ballots are not measuring up to expectations. 

When it's too close to call in freaking King County, WA, that's not just "Joe-mentum." That's some deeper issue in the progressive movement that progressives will need to address if they want to move forward with a nationally viable movement. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by nausicaa

[Rachel333]

The high turnout for Biden is a very, very good sign for the general election. It won't be easy, but I'm actually feeling more optimistic than ever that we could defeat Trump.

[Maggie Mae]

5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

As of two minutes ago, Sanders was only narrowly leading in two Michigan counties (Kent and Ingham).

Thanks for looking. When I left work he was ahead in Washtenaw, Kent, and 

5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Why does this ensure four more years of Trump? I'm not saying Biden is definitely going to win the gen, but I don't know why we're so sure he's going to lose. Especially as compared to Sanders who had terrible turnout in his key demographics. 

I don't think he will win the GE. He was so far behind before South Carolina that the GOP was ignoring him. We'll be subject to the 2020 version of "but her emails" with the Ukraine stuff, the weird speech patterns and cognitive decline rumors, and he's just not interesting enough to go up against Trump. Democratic voters need to vote for something - they voted for hope and change in 2008, they voted for 

5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

 

You understand you're basically saying "Why do black people get to have a say in the direction of the primary"? 

That's not at all what I'm saying. But south Carolina is not going to flip and vote Democratic. There are black people everywhere, including Michigan. I find Michigan to be a much better representation of how the GE would go. 

5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

And I'm not sure how much this primary changed course just because of racking up previous wins. With such a show of overwhelming support for Biden across so many groups, I think we (supporters and non-supporters alike) have to acknowledge that Sanders' message did not resonate with many, many Dem voters from the beginning. Even Sanders' mail in ballots are not measuring up to expectations. 

I acknowledge that it didn't live up to expectations. 

5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

 

blockquote widget

 

I'm completely depressed, I feel completely disenfranchised - voting in the primary was the one way I can feel like I still matter in the US political process. Can we just acknowledge that this system sucks for everyone who doesn't get a chance to vote? 

[Rachel333]

*sigh* I hope this isn't true, or that he surprises everyone and turns the debate into a show of unity against Trump.

 

[Maggie Mae]

6 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

The high turnout for Biden is a very, very good sign for the general election. It won't be easy, but I'm actually feeling more optimistic than ever that we could defeat Trump.

I don't feel optimistic at all about the future. Trump's gone, President Biden does what? 

 

1 minute ago, Rachel333 said:

*sigh* I hope this isn't true, or that he surprises everyone and turns the debate into a show of unity against Trump.

 

I hope it is true. Half the country still needs to have a chance to participate in the political process.

[Rachel333]

1 minute ago, Maggie Mae said:

voting in the primary was the one way I can feel like I still matter in the US political process

You know that's how Democrats in southern states feel, right?

I don't think having all the states go at once would be good for the primary process, but I like the idea of rotating which states vote first so it's not always Iowa and New Hampshire.

[nausicaa]

Just now, Maggie Mae said:

I'm completely depressed, I feel completely disenfranchised - voting in the primary was the one way I can feel like I still matter in the US political process. Can we just acknowledge that this system sucks for everyone who doesn't get a chance to vote? 

Acknowledged. I do understand the frustration and apathy of people in states that vote later in the primaries, especially those who also vote later in the general because of time differences. I've always been very lucky to be in an East Coast state that also votes on Super Tuesday and probably don't realize how much that contributes to feeling like part of the process. 

[Rachel333]

2 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I hope it is true. Half the country still needs to have a chance to participate in the political process.

But a debate doesn't really mean they are participating; it's a spectator event. I just feel like at this point the candidates attacking each other (and that very much includes Biden attacking Sanders) would only help Trump.

I'm sorry you're discouraged tonight. It's tough when a candidate you really like loses, and I think it's fine to give yourself some time to just be bummed out for a little while.

[Maggie Mae]

11 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

But a debate doesn't really mean they are participating; it's a spectator event. I just feel like at this point the candidates attacking each other (and that very much includes Biden attacking Sanders) would only help Trump.

I'm sorry you're discouraged tonight. It's tough when a candidate you really like loses, and I think it's fine to give yourself some time to just be bummed out for a little while.

I'm discouraged for a few reasons, but right now it's mainly because I was really excited to have a chance to try out this ranked choice thing for the primary and for my state to have a chance to show off that mail-in ranked choice ballots work. I never expected Bernie to get the nomination. We gave him money for the simple reason of wanting him in for as long as possible because he's the only person who doesn't act like socialism is this big scary thing that can't happen. (And Warren, to some extent, but I also just enjoyed watching Warren).  I want him to be able to go to the debates and push the overton window to the left. I also wanted Warren to stay in, and Kloubacher and Yang and even Pete though there's something really unlikable about Pete to me. Maybe something related to Catholic School, IDK. Oh, and Castro. I reallyl liked Castro at one point. 

For the record, I liked most of the candidates. I even like Joe Biden. I just don't think that Biden is going to win. I'll vote for him, if I vote, of course. (OF course I will vote, there's always the hopeful "Maybe this year we'll free ourselves from Don Young" and the fact that in 2016 I tried to just leave the president option blank but apparently our machines require me to answer every question, even if I don't have a clue who I want. Same thing happened at a local thing when I had to choose between anti-choice anti-fluoride pro-public-zipline guy and a shitty republican with a famous last name, so it wasn't just the machine malfunctioning.)