2020 Presidential Election 3: We're Down To Old White Men...And Fucking Kanye.

[GreyhoundFan]

I enjoyed reading this op-ed: "Joe Biden and the empathy gap"

Spoiler

Joe Biden gave a speech on Thursday in which he tore into President Trump over the legal brief his lawyers are expected to file in support of a lawsuit that would destroy the Affordable Care Act. Biden is getting attention for ripping Trump’s “whining and self pity” about criticism he’s endured the pandemic.

That’s lively stuff. But the more significant moment might have been when the presumptive Democratic nominee offered what may be the longest soliloquy yet in this campaign to the emotional hardships countless Americans are enduring due to the constraints of social distancing.

Biden said bluntly that we face a long struggle with coronavirus, and that we’ll have to “do both the simple things and the hard things to keep our families and everybody safe, to reopen our economy” and “put the pandemic behind us.” He then said this about mask-wearing and social distancing:

I know as Americans, it’s not something we’re used to. But it matters. All the evidence from all over the world tells us it just might be the single most effective thing we can do. We’re going to have to socially distance, like we are here today.

It’s not easy. It seems so strange to us. Not as Americans, but as human beings. We’re built to talk, to laugh, to hug, to gather with other people. I know I am, and I know you are. But for now, we’re going to have to socially distance. It matters.

We’re going to have to find a way to keep our economy running as we bring the number of cases down. The president wants us to believe there’s a choice between the economy and public health. Amazingly, he still hasn’t grasped the most basic fact of this crisis: To fix the economy, we have to get control over the virus.

Last month, when many lamented that Biden was stuck broadcasting from his basement, we suggested it might actually play well for him, because it showed Biden enduring in solidarity what so many other Americans were coping with at the time, while Trump resumed travel without masks or social distancing.

The Biden camp, we reported, was operating from the premise that Biden could show voters how a president should conduct himself amid such a trying crisis, by setting an example for conduct — at the time, remaining on lockdown — that, while emotionally grueling, would ultimately benefit us all.

This latest discussion of the hardships of social distancing seems like a continuation of that basic bet. Indeed, after Biden finished his speech, he put on his mask before heading offstage — a moment that seemed all about drawing this deeper contrast.

A Biden adviser told me he’s trying to strike a balance, emphasizing “the most effective ways to keep families safe and healthy” while also letting people know “on a human level” that “he personally understands how difficult some of those behaviors and strategies can be.”

Now contrast that with the bet that Trump has made — openly and proudly. Trump almost never wears a mask at public appearances — which is facilitated by special access to testing that he and his top advisers enjoy. He held a massive rally in Tulsa, even as his campaign had attendees sign a waiver in case they got sick.

When Trump discovered to his horror that the rally was sparsely attended, it demonstrated that his magical reality-warping powers couldn’t persuade even his own supporters that coronavirus doesn’t pose a threat when people are in close proximity without masks and social distancing.

This week’s New York Times/Siena College poll found that 54 percent of American voters say they always wear a mask when they expect to be close to others, while another 22 percent say they usually do, and only 22 percent say they rarely or never do.

Those numbers are likely an overstatement; surely many people tell pollsters they wear masks while leaving the mask at home here and there. But, plainly, majorities recognize that these precautions are the right thing to do, and don’t subscribe to the ideology — neo-Social Darwinism, dumbed-down dorm-room libertarianism, stylized pseudo-intellectual anti-science conservatism, whatever you call it — driving the supposed rebellion against mask-wearing, which continues to be a fringe position.

Standing vocally for wearing masks sends an important signal, too. As Zeynep Tufekci noted, masks indicate “solidarity” amid a time that is not “business as usual,” a recognition that crisis moments like this one “require us to change our behavior,” but “collectively,” which means that “knowing our fellow citizens are on board is important.”

It’s important because this is hard. And that’s why it’s also important for our leaders to be on board with it, while recognizing and speaking to the hardships it imposes.

 

[Audrey2]

10 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Excellent new ad:

 

I loved that ad. Wow, how we have fallen!

[Marmion]

On 6/22/2020 at 12:35 PM, Maggie Mae said:

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes with Val Demings. 

 

On 6/22/2020 at 12:57 PM, RosyDaisy said:

Choosing Val Demings  and announcing it now would be a good move for Biden.  I like her.

The issue that some would have with her is this .  

Quote

On May 21, 2020, Demings confirmed she was on "the shortlist" to be Joe Biden's vice presidential nominee for the 2020 presidential election. She said she would accept the role if offered.[29] But some critics, including Black Lives Matter activists, attacked her record as Orlando police chief.[30][31]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Demings#Law_enforcement_career

[GreyhoundFan]

The problem is: nobody has a spotless record and nobody is going to appeal to everyone. 

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, GreyhoundFan said:

The problem is: nobody has a spotless record and nobody is going to appeal to everyone. 

The Biden camp needs to consider appeal issues that are unrelated to record, regardless of what those issues are.  Objective estimates need to be made of votes expected to be gained or lost for each VP candidate, among all projected voters, then Biden needs to choose the candidate who should provide the best chance of a win.  That's it.  I hope they can stay focused on the big picture.

While I'm glad that Biden plans to choose a woman as VP I think he made a mistake by announcing it.  What was gained by openly rejecting all potential male candidates?  How would the voting public feel if he had stated that he intended to not choose a woman as a running mate?

[fraurosena]

Coming from someone who would know:

 

[fraurosena]

Now this is just wishful thinking. Trump will never drop out -- at least not of his own volition.

Trump in ‘fragile’ mood and may drop out of 2020 race if poll numbers don’t improve

Quote

Donald Trump may drop out of the 2020 presidential race if he believes he has no chance of winning, a Republican Party operative reportedly told Fox News. 

The claim comes in a report in the president’s favourite news outlet that cites a number of GOP insiders who are concerned about Mr Trump’s re-election prospects amid abysmal polling numbers.

Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee, currently holds an average lead of nine points over the incumbent, according to a tracker of 2020 polls by RealClearPolitics. 

Crucially, Mr Trump has lost support from older white voters — typically a bedrock of support for the Republican Party and a group that was crucial to his narrow 2016 victory. Mr Trump is also trailing the former vice president in almost all the swing states. 

“It’s too early, but if the polls continue to worsen, you can see a scenario where he drops out,” one anonymous GOP operative told Fox News.

Charles Gasparino, the author of the Fox News report, said in a series of tweets that he had spoken to “major players” in the Republican party for the story. One of them described Mr Trump’s mood as “fragile” as his chances of a second-term looked increasingly dim. 

Another of the GOP sources cited in the report said of the likelihood that Mr Trump will drop out: “I’ve heard the talk but I doubt it’s true. My bet is, he drops if he believes there’s no way to win.”

Mr Trump has repeatedly hit out at polling that shows him far behind Mr Biden. Last month, he tweeted that Fox News “should fire their Fake Pollster. Never had a good Fox Poll!”

On Monday, he tweeted: "Sorry to inform the Do Nothing Democrats, but I am getting VERY GOOD internal Polling Numbers. Just like 2016, the @nytimes Polls are Fake! The @FoxNews Polls are a JOKE! Do you think they will apologize to me & their subscribers AGAIN when I WIN? People want LAW, ORDER & SAFETY!"

But polls from all polling organisations show Mr Trump consistently behind by similar margins. In particular, they have shown high levels of disapproval over the president’s handling of the coronavirus and mass protests calling for racial justice after the police killing of George Floyd. 

A recent Washington Post-Ipsos poll found that 36 per cent of American adults approve of Trump’s handling of the protests, while 62 percent disapprove. A New York Times poll returned similar numbers. 

The same New York Times-Siena College poll found 58 per cent of Americans disapprove of his handling of the coronavirus outbreak, while only 38 percent approve — the worst ratings since the crisis began. 

The Trump campaign called reports that the president would consider dropping out “the granddaddy of fake news”. 

“Everyone knows that media polling has always been wrong about President Trump –­ they undersample Republicans and don’t screen for likely voters –­ in order to set false narratives,” Trump campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh told Fox News. 

“It won’t work. There was similar fretting in 2016 and if it had been accurate, Hillary Clinton would be in the White House right now.”

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Now this is just wishful thinking. Trump will never drop out -- at least not of his own volition.

Trump in ‘fragile’ mood and may drop out of 2020 race if poll numbers don’t improve

 

I don't think he'll ever drop out, but I am very interested in what they mean by "fragile."

[FiveAcres]

17 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I don't think he'll ever drop out, but I am very interested in what they mean by "fragile."

So am I. Actually, terrified would be a better word than interested.

[JenniferJuniper]

20 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I don't think he'll ever drop out

I used to think that. No way will he ever bail.  He'll rely on cheating and then claim cheating by the other side when he does lose. 

But as we get closer to November and as things keep getting worse, I'm starting to think maybe he would.  This is a guy who didn't hesitate to file corporate bankruptcies on failing casinos.  Would he pull the plug on his failing presidency if he thought he could save more face blaming other forces before he actually loses?  On Americans that didn't appreciate his very great brain?  On all of the former members of his cabinet who are telling lies about him to line their own pockets?  On the country of "Jina" for creating a fake democrat Hong Kung Flu virus just to bring him down?  The world doesn't deserve his greatness!

He can't stand the thought of losing, and now he's being forced to think about it every day.  And he needs a pardon for any and all federal crimes  The sooner he gets Pence in with a promise of a pardon, the better.  If he waits until Pence is nothing but a lame duck VP, he loses all leverage over him. 

Probably just a dream.  But you never know, Fox could be trying to run the idea up the flagpole for him. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I used to think that. No way will he ever bail.  He'll rely on cheating and then claim cheating by the other side when he does lose. 

But as we get closer to November and as things keep getting worse, I'm starting to think maybe he would.  This is a guy who didn't hesitate to file corporate bankruptcies on failing casinos.  Would he pull the plug on his failing presidency if he thought he could save more face blaming other forces before he actually loses?  On Americans that didn't appreciate his very great brain?  On all of the former members of his cabinet who are telling lies about him to line their own pockets?  On the country of "Jina" for creating a fake democrat Hong Kung Flu virus just to bring him down?  The world doesn't deserve his greatness!

He can't stand the thought of losing, and now he's being forced to think about it every day.  And he needs a pardon for any and all federal crimes  The sooner he gets Pence in with a promise of a pardon, the better.  If he waits until Pence is nothing but a lame duck VP, he loses all leverage over him. 

Probably just a dream.  But you never know, Fox could be trying to run the idea up the flagpole for him. 

You've given me a lot to think about.  Including the fear of the unknown...if he did drop out and Pence ran at the top of the ticket.  How does that change things for those who haven't been paying attention.

[JenniferJuniper]

13 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You've given me a lot to think about.  Including the fear of the unknown...if he did drop out and Pence ran at the top of the ticket.  How does that change things for those who haven't been paying attention.

It's not a guarantee that the Republicans would even run Pence - they wouldn't have to - but with each day getting closer to the convention and with him being the incumbent, I think they would.   

I know its a rhetorical question and a stretch at that, but while I think Pence would be a less offensive candidate, he would not excite Trump's base in any way.  I think Biden would handily beat him because everyone not in Trump's base wants the stench of him and everything that was ever near him wiped out with supersonic bleach. 

Methinks there will never be any statues of Humpty Trumpty put up for future kids to knock down.  ?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

It's not a guarantee that the Republicans would even run Pence - they wouldn't have to - but with each day getting closer to the convention and with him being the incumbent, I think they would.   

I know its a rhetorical question and a stretch at that, but while I think Pence would be a less offensive candidate, he would not excite Trump's base in any way.  I think Biden would handily beat him because everyone not in Trump's base wants the stench of him and everything that was ever near him wiped out with supersonic bleach. 

Methinks there will never be any statues of Humpty Trumpty put up for future kids to knock down.  ?

I hope you're right.  On all counts.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

I think they would definitely run Pence if something happened to the Covidiot.  This is why Trump needs to stay in the race until Nov 4.  He can drop dead after that for all I care.  

Biden would have a much more difficult time beating Pence than Trump.  Pence has the support of the establishment, and frankly there are a lot of people out there who don't like Biden but will vote for him because they can't stomach the alternative (this will be my first time voting for a candidate I don't like...I normally write in a name if I don't like either major candidate).  Pence as the nominee would completely change the landscape of the election...a lot of likely Biden voters, who normally vote Republican, would actually prefer Pence and will vote for him.  The Lincoln Project and Republicans for Biden?  They would suddenly go silent...

[GreyhoundFan]

2 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Methinks there will never be any statues of Humpty Trumpty put up for future kids to knock down.  ?

Not so fast, @JenniferJuniper, you know there will be a statue or two at Mar-a-Loco for the Florida birds to crap on.

Edited June 29, 2020 by GreyhoundFan

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

He can't stand the thought of losing, and now he's being forced to think about it every day.  And he needs a pardon for any and all federal crimes  The sooner he gets Pence in with a promise of a pardon, the better.  If he waits until Pence is nothing but a lame duck VP, he loses all leverage over him.

Whether this might happen or not, I wonder if/how the potential for future trouble by Trump & Co is being considered by those who should consider such things.  I wouldn't expect them to lose all political and business contacts after leaving the WH.  If anything, I'd expect them to try to build on them.

Also, what people/organizations might have beans to spill once Trump is out of office, and what could be done to discourage bean spilling?  Now would seem to be the time for those issues to be attended to - especially if an early exit is being considered.

[Audrey2]

50 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Not so fast, @JenniferJuniper, you know there will be a statue or two at Mar-a-Loco for the Florida birds to crap on.

And, they'll be gold plated, or at least gold colored.

[SPHASH]

3 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I think they would definitely run Pence if something happened to the Covidiot.  This is why Trump needs to stay in the race until Nov 4.  He can drop dead after that for all I care.  

Biden would have a much more difficult time beating Pence than Trump.  Pence has the support of the establishment, and frankly there are a lot of people out there who don't like Biden but will vote for him because they can't stomach the alternative (this will be my first time voting for a candidate I don't like...I normally write in a name if I don't like either major candidate).  Pence as the nominee would completely change the landscape of the election...a lot of likely Biden voters, who normally vote Republican, would actually prefer Pence and will vote for him.  The Lincoln Project and Republicans for Biden?  They would suddenly go silent...

If Mango Mussolini quits they would run Pence in a heartbeat.  Romney may have his eye on the White House but he is persona non grata in the GOP.  Other possibilities could be Cruz, Kasich, current Sen and former FL Gov Rick Scott.

Edited June 30, 2020 by SPHASH
ETA

[Audrey2]

40 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

If Mango Mussolini quits they would run Pence in a heartbeat.  Romney may have his eye on the White House but he is persona non grata in the GOP.  Other possibilities could be Cruz, Kasich, current Sen and former FL Gov Rick Scott.

I am curious (and no, I don't know the answer) how much Trump would taint a Pence candidacy if Trump abruptly decides not to run. Cruz and Scott would also be interesting, as both can be tied to Trump. The only one I could stomach would be Kasich, who never seemed to be in the Trump camp.

I'm trying to look at this realistically- Many counties and states will go Republican no matter what (as long as it isn't a woman, gay, or minority). I wouldn't agree with Kasich, but I do think he does love the U.S, Pence, Cruz, and Scott proved they just love Trump.

[Dandruff]

34 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

I am curious (and no, I don't know the answer) how much Trump would taint a Pence candidacy if Trump abruptly decides not to run.

I think it would only seem abrupt.

Pence has been loyal and obedient, which I view as a big minus.  What platform would he run on - devotion to the continuation of Trump's fine work?  Or would he try to convince people that he disagreed with Trump but just got around to saying so?  There's also the issue of charisma...or the total lack thereof.

While I still think he'd get a lot of votes, especially from evangelicals and bigots, I'm not sure he could get enough to win.  They'd probably want to wait to see who Biden chooses as a running mate before announcing, but that would leave a very few months until the election.  Pence would also have to introduce his own running mate and that person would need to be palatable enough to get votes while not seeming much more palatable than Pence - a fine line.

[fraurosena]

On the subject of Trump dropping out if Pence guarantees him a pardon, I don't think Trump will go for those odds. He would have to be absolutely sure that Pence wins, otherwise there will be no pardon. Remember, even if Trump should decide not to run, he will remain in the Oval Office until January 20, 2021*. Pence would not be able to pardon him before being sworn in, so for a pardon it is absolutely imperative that Pence wins. And although I agree that the blue landslide will diminish with a Pence candidacy, I don't think it will be by enough to ensure a win for Pence. People are well aware of Pence's sycophancy; they are well aware of the Republicans enabling of Trump and they are sick and tired of them being in power. It is not only hatred of Trump that is driving voters, it is also hatred of what the Republican Party has become under McConnell's rule.

*The only way that Pence would be able to pardon him, is if Trump were to actually resign before then and let Pence take over. I'm not so sure that Trump's ego would let him do that though. 

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, fraurosena said:

*The only way that Pence would be able to pardon him, is if Trump were to actually resign before then and let Pence take over. I'm not so sure that Trump's ego would let him do that though.

Conversely, his ego might not want to take the chance of losing by a landslide with no pardon.  I imagine some face-saving excuse could be made for his resignation; e.g., medical.

[fraurosena]

5 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Conversely, his ego might not want to take the chance of losing by a landslide with no pardon.  I imagine some face-saving excuse could be made for his resignation; e.g., medical.

True, he (they) will want to go for the pardon option if he (they) can. But only if he is pushed to do so by his enablers.  Somehow I don't think he'll easily do it of his own accord. And yes, there will be some sort of face-saving excuse. 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he'll throw a tantrum and refuses to resign. I do not want him pardoned. I want him -- and please Rufus -- his enablers all to face the full extent of the justice system.

[Ali]

6 hours ago, fraurosena said:

On the subject of Trump dropping out if Pence guarantees him a pardon, I don't think Trump will go for those odds. He would have to be absolutely sure that Pence wins, otherwise there will be no pardon. Remember, even if Trump should decide not to run, he will remain in the Oval Office until January 20, 2021*. Pence would not be able to pardon him before being sworn in, so for a pardon it is absolutely imperative that Pence wins. And although I agree that the blue landslide will diminish with a Pence candidacy, I don't think it will be by enough to ensure a win for Pence. People are well aware of Pence's sycophancy; they are well aware of the Republicans enabling of Trump and they are sick and tired of them being in power. It is not only hatred of Trump that is driving voters, it is also hatred of what the Republican Party has become under McConnell's rule.

*The only way that Pence would be able to pardon him, is if Trump were to actually resign before then and let Pence take over. I'm not so sure that Trump's ego would let him do that though. 

Pence cannot pardon him for state level crimes, so resigning would make him vulnerable.

[Botkinetti]

I think trump is fragile now and has absolutely no idea what is happening in his campaign and country. Nothing that he says or does is giving him the adulation he requires and he must feel he is surrounded by enemies. He makes spontaneous decisions and says whatever comes into his idiotic brain and I could see him resigning because the American public don’t deserve him anymore. At least that is how he would spin it so he could sleep at night without feeling like an abject failure.