Josh, Anna, M'Kids 22: Sex Pest and Fam in the Windowless Warehouse

[Pleiades_06]

1 hour ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

My hope is for Jenny to write it.  She has/had a guinea pig and a desire to become a vet, so she's the one I'd most like to see break free.

Isn’t she she the one Michelle was caught yelling at by Derick? I like how she often looks surly in photos...I hope she finds the strength to do what is right for her.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 hours ago, viii said:

I agree with you on most of these points, but I don't think it's appropriate to speculate about molestation towards Duggar children. 

No one is speculating on specific molestation, but to deny the fact that a serial child molester is potential danger to children just defies logic. 

It's a fine line, granted, but an important one.  He has left multiple victims in his wake, to deny that he is potentially a very dangerous man is to assume he's reformed, despite having no valid treatment for being a sexual predator.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I agree that while we have no proof that Josh has/would reoffend, I certainly wouldn't be leaving my kids with him (or god forbid having any with him).

[front hugs > duggs]

35 minutes ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I agree that while we have no proof that Josh has/would reoffend, I certainly wouldn't be leaving my kids with him (or god forbid having any with him).

I think that's fair. Did anybody watch Making a Murderer a few years back? I remember thinking, man, this case was handled HORRIBLY by the police and it really made you question the entire situation.. But damned if I'd personally ever want to be in a room alone with Steve Avery.

[DarkAnts]

TLC posted a video on YouTube of the Duggar's. Michelle made sanitizing wipes, Josie and Michelle cleaned a door, everyone talked in a way that made it sound like they were staying away from non household members, and Jana yelled at Josie again over a painting project. The Duggar's are not wearing masks. Don't know if crew members were.  I think Anna and Josh are being forced to stay away from the big house while filming is not happening. That might explain Anna's passive aggressive post. 

[Idlewild]

4 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

TLC posted a video on YouTube of the Duggar's. Michelle made sanitizing wipes, Josie and Michelle cleaned a door, everyone talked in a way that made it sound like they were staying away from non household members, and Jana yelled at Josie again over a painting project. The Duggar's are not wearing masks. Don't know if crew members were.  I think Anna and Josh are being forced to stay away from the big house while filming is not happening. That might explain Anna's passive aggressive post. 

I think that’s all for show. While the married children may be acting responsibly (or not) we know the Duggars hosted ‘family night’ with multiple households and some non family at the height of the pandemic. JB and Jinger were pictured maskless in a restaurant not at a table with staff who were wearing masks. Once they realised they’d get pushback from TLC they started posting pictures of themselves in masks etc. Politically they are the types that are whining about safety measures but if they’re being paid they’ll go along with it. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

10 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

TLC posted a video on YouTube of the Duggar's. Michelle made sanitizing wipes, Josie and Michelle cleaned a door, everyone talked in a way that made it sound like they were staying away from non household members, and Jana yelled at Josie again over a painting project. The Duggar's are not wearing masks. Don't know if crew members were.  I think Anna and Josh are being forced to stay away from the big house while filming is not happening. That might explain Anna's passive aggressive post. 

I think that video was posted a while ago.

[Sullie06]

I think the biggest take away is that Josh did not receive proper treatment for his problematic sexual behaviors, so it's hard to say what he thinks or feels. As I've said before I work with Adolescent Sex Offenders. That being said, Josh does not fit the definition of a pedophile, as he was an adolescent himself. I honestly believe that Josh's victims were a victim of opportunity for him. Many ASO, victimize younger family members because they have access to them, and often are in a position of power being older. It's not necessarily about sexual attraction, if that makes sense. I'm actually working with an offender right now who is very similar to Josh and I've learned a lot about how the mind works in these perps.  

[WiseGirl]

On 9/9/2020 at 8:35 PM, GuineaPigCourtship said:

My hope is for Jenny to write it.  She has/had a guinea pig and a desire to become a vet, so she's the one I'd most like to see break free.

May Jill, Derick, Amy, and whatshisname help her to do this. So far they seem to be the furthest from JB's control.

Edited September 12, 2020 by WiseGirl
Spelling is hard

[just_ordinary]

16 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

I think the biggest take away is that Josh did not receive proper treatment for his problematic sexual behaviors, so it's hard to say what he thinks or feels. As I've said before I work with Adolescent Sex Offenders. That being said, Josh does not fit the definition of a pedophile, as he was an adolescent himself. I honestly believe that Josh's victims were a victim of opportunity for him. Many ASO, victimize younger family members because they have access to them, and often are in a position of power being older. It's not necessarily about sexual attraction, if that makes sense. I'm actually working with an offender right now who is very similar to Josh and I've learned a lot about how the mind works in these perps.  

That is definitely something I miss in the discussion. Statistically most sexual crimes against minors are not related to sexual attraction. It’s about access and power. That doesn’t mean the abuser doesn’t get some sick kick out of it but the age of the victim has more to do with the being more vulnerable and weaker than them being children in itself. This doesn’t also mean they won’t pick a minor as victim again and again. They and the outcome are just as bad but the motivation is a different one. 

That is why I think it’s completely justified to say one wouldn’t let their children alone or in contact with someone with this history. That is why I am utterly horrified that neither, Josh or his victims, got real treatment. But from the outside look of it, there is no indication his children have to suffer from more than already abusive parenting methods.

 

What I find very interesting is the way people decide to judge Josh’s actions in regard to his age. He was 15. A minor but obviously much more mature than his victims. But a minor. If we question if 15 year old girls are able to make responsible choices regarding sexuality then the same applies to boys. Is there something as law regarding crimes by minors?  Because if so, that is how his actions must be judged. Either someone has the rational maturity of an adult or he doesn’t. Every society sets their own cut but from my view point things seem to be mixed up in the US. Is it true minors get judged with adult law sometimes. Because that doesn’t seem ok. Who can decide that a minor is already developed enough for adult law in one area but not in another? That is how I interpret some comments. In my eyes Josh at 15 is not equal to an 18 year old Josh or whatever the society thinks an adult is. I only know the other way round. Adults (but only 18 till 21 iirc) can be judged under minor law when a psychiatrist recommends it. Mostly because they determine that their development is still exceptionally lacking compared to adults.

[Sullie06]

On 9/12/2020 at 10:29 AM, just_ordinary said:

What I find very interesting is the way people decide to judge Josh’s actions in regard to his age. He was 15. A minor but obviously much more mature than his victims. But a minor. If we question if 15 year old girls are able to make responsible choices regarding sexuality then the same applies to boys. Is there something as law regarding crimes by minors?  Because if so, that is how his actions must be judged. Either someone has the rational maturity of an adult or he doesn’t. Every society sets their own cut but from my view point things seem to be mixed up in the US. Is it true minors get judged with adult law sometimes. Because that doesn’t seem ok. Who can decide that a minor is already developed enough for adult law in one area but not in another? That is how I interpret some comments. In my eyes Josh at 15 is not equal to an 18 year old Josh or whatever the society thinks an adult is. I only know the other way round. Adults (but only 18 till 21 iirc) can be judged under minor law when a psychiatrist recommends it. Mostly because they determine that their development is still exceptionally lacking compared to adults.

So I'm in the US and in my state they just passed legislation 2 years ago adjusting the juvenile delinquency laws. So previously if you were age 7-15 you were considered a JD if you committed a crime and you went through Family Court. If you were age 16-18 you were considered an adolescent offender and you could be charged as an adult depending on the crime and the intention. We even had a juvenile pod at the county jail that housed 16 and 17 year olds. Then the Raise the Age legislation came through which basically states that 16-18 year olds go through Youth Part of Supreme Court. If the judge agrees the case will be kicked back to family court instead of adult criminal court and receive sentences more aligned with JDs. They also are no longer allowed to be incarcerated. If remand is needed they go to a high security detention facility, not a jail.   

[Peaches-n-Beans]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:02 PM, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Meechelle didn’t use the buddy system either when she had 6 kids, and Anna knows it. Yet as someone else also pointed out, Mack is often holding Mar-yella in her IG pics.

She’s probably not happy with how she and Josh are treated vs. the other kids.  They have less freedom than Bunk Bed Jed!(tm) and unmarried Jana.  But girlfriend, don’t bite the hand that feeds you...

Playing catch up but just wanted to get my 2 cents in before my thoughts checked out of my brain XD

It feels really odd to be defending Anna again but if I had kids that far apart in age (Mackenzyie is what 11? and MaryElla only like 8 months) and wanted a picture of both for social media the oldest 100% would hold the youngest. And when I was that age, if there was a baby around I wanted to hold it. So I really don't think we can judge how much Mack holds or cares for MaryElla based off posed instagram photos. 

[JDuggs]

I’m going to go to bat for Anna too. I just scrolled through her Instagram and Michael is holding Maryella just as much as Mackynzie. I think Anna presents as a very hands on mother whose kids really do adore each other.

I usually have no gut feelings, but I think Michael is somehow the one who’s going to be the most traumatized when he learns about his dad’s past. I think the girls will process it just like Anna wants them to, but Michael will see through the bs and it will hopefully drive him away from the fundy life. Michael seems to have a wise beyond his years sense to him. I think Mackynzie is so enmeshed with the young Duggar aunts, she won’t want to let go of it.

[DarkAnts]

Fuck Anna's passive aggressive post about not being included in filming. She was in the episode posted on the 15th. Screw you Anba. You are included. You are not featured but what can you expect? Your husband is a ball of crap.

Edited September 19, 2020 by DarkAnts

[sansan]

25 minutes ago, DarkAnts said:

Fuck Anna's passive aggressive post about not being included in filming. She was in the episode posted on the 15th. Screw you Anba. You are included. You are not featured but what can you expect? Your husband is a ball of crap.

I missed Anna’s post , where is it......please.

[DarkAnts]

2 minutes ago, sansan said:

I missed Anna’s post , where is it......please.

 

[sansan]

6 minutes ago, DarkAnts said:

 

Sorry, thanks! I went back and found it. Sounds like she is shooting her wad. Maybe a crappy day with the slug, Josh.

 

[DarkAnts]

3 minutes ago, sansan said:

Sorry, thanks! I went back and found it. Sounds like she is shooting her wad. Maybe a crappy day with the slug, Josh.

 

It's all good. Not everyone follows them on SM. And, sometimes threads move so fast that it's hard to keep up. Sometimes, you can't find what you are looking for on FJ.

[sansan]

Dark Ants, very true. Sometimes there is so many comments....ya just can't. Thanks again.

[baldricks_turnip]

This might be my dislike of Anna speaking, but her post about Justin and Claire reminds me of when one of my colleagues (teacher- lots of women) announces an engagement or a pregnancy or a birth, you'll get the standard congratulations but there will always be a few who have to use the occasion to draw attention to the fact that they are in the inner circle of that person and were privy to the info prior to the announcement. So you get comments like:
"Yay! So glad you've finally announced, I couldn't hold it in any longer!" or "Congratulations again! You made my day when you told me earlier!"

Barf.

[AussieKrissy]

15 minutes ago, baldricks_turnip said:

This might be my dislike of Anna speaking, but her post about Justin and Claire reminds me of when one of my colleagues (teacher- lots of women) announces an engagement or a pregnancy or a birth, you'll get the standard congratulations but there will always be a few who have to use the occasion to draw attention to the fact that they are in the inner circle of that person and were privy to the info prior to the announcement. So you get comments like:
"Yay! So glad you've finally announced, I couldn't hold it in any longer!" or "Congratulations again! You made my day when you told me earlier!"

Barf.

you are so right

yeah anna we know you are bitter when you are left out of things.... 

[becky_m2001]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:38 PM, JDuggs said:

I usually have no gut feelings, but I think Michael is somehow the one who’s going to be the most traumatized when he learns about his dad’s past. I think the girls will process it just like Anna wants them to, but Michael will see through the bs and it will hopefully drive him away from the fundy life. Michael seems to have a wise beyond his years sense to him. I think Mackynzie is so enmeshed with the young Duggar aunts, she won’t want to let go of it.

It's hard for me to gauge how the little M's are processing things now that they're only seen in the background. They don't take part in the talking heads anymore and I don't think I've even heard them speak since the earliest season of Counting On. How much of why their father went away do you think they were told back in 2015?

[Glasgowghirl]

6 hours ago, baldricks_turnip said:

This might be my dislike of Anna speaking, but her post about Justin and Claire reminds me of when one of my colleagues (teacher- lots of women) announces an engagement or a pregnancy or a birth, you'll get the standard congratulations but there will always be a few who have to use the occasion to draw attention to the fact that they are in the inner circle of that person and were privy to the info prior to the announcement. So you get comments like:
"Yay! So glad you've finally announced, I couldn't hold it in any longer!" or "Congratulations again! You made my day when you told me earlier!"

Barf.

Thought that too, she has made a few posts recently that have rubbed me up the wrong way. Anna never really bothered me before but she seems bitter about not being on the show any longer and not getting the attention she once got. People have also pointed out she made a post congratulating Justin on his courtship but no post for Nathan and Nurie, she was blocking people for mentioning them. 

[Idlewild]

Anna to me is always trying to hustle her position of alpha Duggar wife. She thinks she and Turd are the heirs to the Duggar throne but it’s looking like a fight off between Benessa and Joken. 

[BookwormExtraordinaire]

Anna being butthurt about not being on the show anymore gives me the impression that she's probably not that happy with her life in general. Since the scandals of 2015 she has seemed determined to make her marriage work (or at least survive), but maybe she's starting to realise, consciously or sub-consciously, that she cannot save it on her own. We've obviously had very little insight into Josh and Anna's relationship the last couple of years, but I would be very suprised if they have a healthy one, and even more surprised if they put equal amounts of work into making it work. Even if Josh promised to change his ways back then and commit 100% to his family, 5 years is more than enough time to run out of determination and slip back into old habits. Anna's probably the one pulling most of the weight at home, and with each new blessing the load gets heavier, and maybe 2 redemption babies was enough for her to start to understand that having more children never fixes any relationship.

I bet they're both bitter about the life they have now when they compare it to the one they had back in 2015. Josh because of the lost opportunity to spew hatred for a living and the chance to run for some sort of office. Instead of being the golden son with a career in Washington he's stuck in Arkansas with more kids than he probably wants and some dull job that his dad has fixed for him. (Do we know what Josh does for a living? Is it still the car lot?)

Anna I think is more unhappy about losing her previous status in the family than moving back to Arkansas. She was the first wife who had the first grandchildren and was adored by everyone and got to do so many talking heads on the show, something you can tell that she enjoyed when you watch old episoded of 19KaC. After the scandals she did not only have to deal with her relationship with her husband, but also with losing her status in the family. Even if they live near the big house and spend a lot of time there it still seems like Anna (and probably Josh as well) has drifted further and further away from the family. She used to spend a lot of time with the other sisters, but we rarely see her with any of them these days. With each new wife and grandchild she becomes less relevant, and even if she still had the most kids everyone knows it's just a matter of time before someone  Kendra catches up with her and makes her even more irrelevant.

This is all speculation of course (but what else is there on FJ? ?) but the ones trying the hardest to show a happy facade on social media are often the ones with the real issues. I would honestly be surprised if Josh and Anna did not have some serious problems, and I think maybe enough time has passed since the scandals for those problems to have grown big enough to be impossible to ignore, even for Anna.