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Josh, Anna, M'Kids 22: Sex Pest and Fam in the Windowless Warehouse


HerNameIsBuffy

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3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I disagree.  She was sinned against initially, but the second she chose to defend him and have more children with him she became just as complicit in the danger to those kids.  She has no business being on TV prioritizing a child sexual predator over her duty as a mother.  

While I agree with you, @HerNameIsBuffy, I think @Pecansforeveryone wanted to describe Anna’s perspective and not our outside point of view.

Anna might feel she’s innocent in all this and thus be angry she isn’t featured on Counting On. We, on the other hand, see her role in the scandals a bit more critically. 

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My impression has always been that Anna likes Josh. She may not like the position he has put them in, but she seemed to genuinely enjoy him, being a mom, home-schooling, etc.

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8 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

My impression has always been that Anna likes Josh. She may not like the position he has put them in, but she seemed to genuinely enjoy him, being a mom, home-schooling, etc.

It was quite obvious she LOVED the attention from having the only grandbabies. Until Israel came along she was special.

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42 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

While I agree with you, @HerNameIsBuffy, I think @Pecansforeveryone wanted to describe Anna’s perspective and not our outside point of view.

Anna might feel she’s innocent in all this and thus be angry she isn’t featured on Counting On. We, on the other hand, see her role in the scandals a bit more critically. 

Thanks.  If that's the case then I misread it.  I do agree she likely sees herself as the aggrieved party and doesn't see her children of victims in this.  And I bet she does think if she can forgive him why can't everyone else just let it go.

By victims I mean they need to deal with the whispered shame of having a father wish such public scandals.  Whatever they know now, they will one day learn what he did to their aunts and another and it will be a very painful awakening.  

21 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

My impression has always been that Anna likes Josh. She may not like the position he has put them in, but she seemed to genuinely enjoy him, being a mom, home-schooling, etc.

Obviously we can't know, but if I had to guess I'd say she does love having babies and the whole quiverful homeschooling thing...but I'd be very surprised if in her heart of hearts she wasn't secretly envious of Michelle for having a husband who so clearly adores her.

Josh has never treated Anna the way JB does Michelle...and as much of a shitbag as JB is I do think he adores Michelle and she's the most important person in his life, far above his children.  She has to see the difference and I don't know how it wouldn't bother her.

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31 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thanks.  If that's the case then I misread it.  I do agree she likely sees herself as the aggrieved party and doesn't see her children of victims in this.  And I bet she does think if she can forgive him why can't everyone else just let it go.

By victims I mean they need to deal with the whispered shame of having a father wish such public scandals.  Whatever they know now, they will one day learn what he did to their aunts and another and it will be a very painful awakening.  

Obviously we can't know, but if I had to guess I'd say she does love having babies and the whole quiverful homeschooling thing...but I'd be very surprised if in her heart of hearts she wasn't secretly envious of Michelle for having a husband who so clearly adores her.

Josh has never treated Anna the way JB does Michelle...and as much of a shitbag as JB is I do think he adores Michelle and she's the most important person in his life, far above his children.  She has to see the difference and I don't know how it wouldn't bother her.

Yes to everything you said. And let's face it, everybody in their circles may pretend molestation wasn't a big deal, but it is. Of course it is and they know it and have only shut up because Duggars are *important*. 

Anna was very proud, very smug, as a Duggar-in-law. She felt holier than anybody else and everything changed. Anna is not happy, she's keeping sweet outside and bitter inside.

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58 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

Josh has never treated Anna the way JB does Michelle...and as much of a shitbag as JB is I do think he adores Michelle and she's the most important person in his life, far above his children.  She has to see the difference and I don't know how it wouldn't bother her.

I very much agree with this. I don’t think Josh cares about Anna or her feelings. All he saw in her was a young sheltered girl who would go along with anything he said. 

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38 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I very much agree with this. I don’t think Josh cares about Anna or her feelings. All he saw in her was a young sheltered girl who would go along with anything he said. 

And due to his taint his options were few.  I believe his parents pushed them into that marriage to give him an acceptable sexual outlet and to try to cover him in a veneer of respectability (in their world.)

She was just the most available warm female body who had parents willing to sacrifice her to the cause.

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39 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I very much agree with this. I don’t think Josh cares about Anna or her feelings. All he saw in her was a young sheltered girl who would go along with anything he said. 

I think I accidentally hit the wrong quote box here...IMO, part of the reason that Josh doesn’t treat Anna in the same way JB seemingly treats Michelle is because JB likely had more parental and particularly paternal attention and guidance during his formative years. The JB’s Duggars didn’t give their kids the proper attention and guidance beyond JB’s interpretation of the Bible. They had 19 kids and the only people in the house who received any adult attention were JB and Michelle. The only child that was important was the next child. So while JB was busy reading the Bible and spewing his convoluted interpretation of such to his kids, I doubt he could articulate why these messages were important and how they were applicable in modern times. In addition, he and his wife never did the hard work of showing how these messages translated to actions, and actually acting accordingly.

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16 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

IMO, part of the reason that Josh doesn’t treat Anna in the same way JB seemingly treats Michelle is because JB likely had more parental and particularly paternal attention and guidance during his formative years.

I rolled my eyes hard at this. Plenty of people who didn’t have engaged parents are engaged parents themselves. And yes, I know it’s easier to say “yeah, but!” when it comes to Josh but at this point he’s had how many years to step up as a parent and spouse and still hasn’t.

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I was under the impression that Josh and Anna decided for her to no longer be featured on the show. Of course she could still be resentful.

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Meh. Josh treats Anna the way he does because she's always been nothing more than an object for him. An object to satisfy his sexual needs, an object to create a false image of his life, an object to conceive and raise his kids. Even an object for JB and Michelle, to maintain THEIR reputation as a good ol' christian family and give Josh a shiny new toy to play with. She was also an object for her parents, to climb the social ladder on the fundie community.

What a sad life for that woman, I feel sorry for her until I remember she willingly keeps having kids with that d-bag. Fuck her.

Edited by HermioneSparrow
typo
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I am not taking up for either Josh or Anna. How do we know what their relationship is like? Indeed and inarguably, Anna (et.al) was/were victimized by Josh but Josh was victimized by his doe-de-o-doe parents. People act out for reasons. Did he want to marry so young? Did he want eleventy kids? I'm sure this hasn't been a cake walk for him and he has made awful mistakes that hurt everybody else. Maybe at the end of the day it's good they have each other? I dunno.

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25 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

I am not taking up for either Josh or Anna. How do we know what their relationship is like? Indeed and inarguably, Anna (et.al) was/were victimized by Josh but Josh was victimized by his doe-de-o-doe parents. People act out for reasons. Did he want to marry so young? Did he want eleventy kids? I'm sure this hasn't been a cake walk for him and he has made awful mistakes that hurt everybody else. Maybe at the end of the day it's good they have each other? I dunno.

As to the bolded....sexually molesting young children is not a mistake.  It's a heinous crime.   Soft soaping the language minimizes the damage this does, and the psychological scarring his victims have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Like with any of these people we only see what is shown on TV and on their SM, so of course we don't know how they truly feel about anything.

But if he cares about her he's done a good job of keeping that close to the vest.  

As far as it bring good they have each other?  That coupling is bringing six kids so far into a family where the father is a child sexual predator.  I give zero fucks about what's good for Smuggar or Anna.  Besides his problems, the kids they are brining into this world are born into their cult where they are subjected to educational neglect by parents deliberately crippling their opportunities which the kids will pay for for the rest of their lives.

 

Edited by HerNameIsBuffy
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I think Anna thought God was rewarding her by giving her a fundie royalty husband, a tv show, Josh’s seemingly out of nowhere career, and such. I would imagine many other fundie maidens envying her. They lived in DC josh had an “important” job, they had a nice house, nice clothes, tv money too. Things just kept getting better for them in her eyes and it Cosme crashing down in the natter of weeks. She’s probably thinking to her self that she’s done everything “right” why should she be punished.

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1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

As to the bolded....sexually molesting young children is not a mistake.  It's a heinous crime.   Soft soaping the language minimizes the damage this does, and the psychological scarring his victims have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Like with any of these people we only see what is shown on TV and on their SM, so of course we don't know how they truly feel about anything.

But if he cares about her he's done a good job of keeping that close to the vest.  

As far as it bring good they have each other?  That coupling is bringing six kids so far into a family where the father is a child sexual predator.  I give zero fucks about what's good for Smuggar or Anna.  Besides his problems, the kids they are brining into this world are born into their cult where they are subjected to educational neglect by parents deliberately crippling their opportunities which the kids will pay for for the rest of their lives.

 

True, but when he was a child predator, he was also a child. And acting out like that, in my experience, suggests he was a victim by somebody else? There is more to this story somewhere. Kids don't wake up one day a child predator.

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2 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

I was under the impression that Josh and Anna decided for her to no longer be featured on the show. Of course she could still be resentful.

I think you are thinking of Jill & Derrick. I don't know what Anna is whining about, they practically live at the TTH her kids aren't excluded from much of anything, The Duggar dash, but they could have done it just not be filmed. Jill's kids are excluded from either thing because her father and her husband are having dick wagging contest. While I'm glad Jill & the boys will have a better more mainstream life where they will have choices, Jill & her boys are missing out on a lot of fun family time because of these two assholes.  Derrick was a dick on line, JB covered up crimes committed against his daughters, one of home was only FIVE for further his wealth and control. 

If Anna wasn't such a vile human I'd feel badly for her being stuck, she had 3 or 4 kids when everything hit the fan. This is by design, keeping them uneducated and unemployable and saddled with a lot of kids early on keeps them where they are because where else is there? Where does a woman who's parents would most likely turn their backs on her go with 3 or 4, having never held a job, has at best a 6th grade education, and an unupportive family go. Yeah 1 brother said he would help but how does he support her family and his and how long can he do this, while Anna finishes/gets some education and then a job that would support her and 3 or 4 kids while paying for daycare, that coudl take 2 or more years before she's able to be on her own with kids, not to mention lawyer fees because Boob would fight her for custody and she'd need a lawyer. You know JB would make sure Josh's income was small enough child support would be almost nothing because he's that big of a dick. 

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Anna is still featured on Counting On when she fits into a storyline (the maternity shoot, homeschooling with Michelle) and McKynzie basically lives with her younger aunts and has had talking heads post scandal. They’re actually more visible than I would have expected, they just don’t base storylines around them anymore.

I would actually love to see their family featured if they dealt honestly with the scandals and their fallout, leaving Josh’s job and moving home and trying to rebuild an income and home, repairing their marriage and Josh’s relationships with his sisters and their husbands, Josh’s “treatment” etc, but TLC will never do that and I doubt Anna would be willing under those terms - I was surprised they even interviewed her in the initial episodes dealing with the fallout.

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4 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I rolled my eyes hard at this. Plenty of people who didn’t have engaged parents are engaged parents themselves. And yes, I know it’s easier to say “yeah, but!” when it comes to Josh but at this point he’s had how many years to step up as a parent and spouse and still hasn’t.

Oh I agree, plenty of time has passed,  which, IMO, just shows how stunted these people really are. I don’t think Josh could find his way out of wet paper bag. Obviously Josh and his family still live under JB’s umbrella, in JB’s house and take money from JB. This just shows how absolutely screwed up these folks are.

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1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I think you are thinking of Jill & Derrick. I don't know what Anna is whining about, they practically live at the TTH her kids aren't excluded from much of anything, The Duggar dash, but they could have done it just not be filmed. Jill's kids are excluded from either thing because her father and her husband are having dick wagging contest. While I'm glad Jill & the boys will have a better more mainstream life where they will have choices, Jill & her boys are missing out on a lot of fun family time because of these two assholes.  Derrick was a dick on line, JB covered up crimes committed against his daughters, one of home was only FIVE for further his wealth and control. 

If Anna wasn't such a vile human I'd feel badly for her being stuck, she had 3 or 4 kids when everything hit the fan. This is by design, keeping them uneducated and unemployable and saddled with a lot of kids early on keeps them where they are because where else is there? Where does a woman who's parents would most likely turn their backs on her go with 3 or 4, having never held a job, has at best a 6th grade education, and an unupportive family go. Yeah 1 brother said he would help but how does he support her family and his and how long can he do this, while Anna finishes/gets some education and then a job that would support her and 3 or 4 kids while paying for daycare, that coudl take 2 or more years before she's able to be on her own with kids, not to mention lawyer fees because Boob would fight her for custody and she'd need a lawyer. You know JB would make sure Josh's income was small enough child support would be almost nothing because he's that big of a dick. 

Anna is one of eight kids and three have left the cult and her parents still see then.

She could have gotten enough money by giving an interview to go back to school and get on her feet.  

Yes, they were raised in the cult but at what point are these people responsible for perpetuating it and raising their kids in the culture of abuse?  At some point it's on her to make her own choices and that time is long passed.

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So I just watched "14 Kids and Pregnant Again", and... wow. This was my first time actually watching the Duggars beyond a clip, and the smugness of Josh was not exaggerated.

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6 hours ago, AmericanRose said:

So I just watched "14 Kids and Pregnant Again", and... wow. This was my first time actually watching the Duggars beyond a clip, and the smugness of Josh was not exaggerated.

His smugness is insane, especially knowing what we know now about him at that age. 

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In the end, Anna made a selfish choice.  She was an uneducated, unskilled young mother with no money of her own and a belief that she will go to hell if she divorces.  I wouldn't expect her to go running out the door on day 1.  However, once the shock wore off and she had time to process it all and weigh her options, she chose to stay and be the ultimate godly martyr wife.  She had more options than many fundies do, with having an offer of help from her brother and seeing her siblings take a different path and not be rejected by the family.  And what do the rest of us do when we have to support our kids while facing adversity?  Any single moms out there?  Anybody ever been flat broke? Unemployed?  No resources or family to turn to?  What did you do?  You figured it out.  You likely worked your ass off to provide for and protect your kids because that's what you do.  There is no reason Anna could not have gotten a job and gone to school part time.  Of course any job with her lack of skills and experience would suck and be low paying, but she would get child support, etc. and be able to take a few classes at a time.  In the time that has passed, she could have become a teacher which I think she would really like and even be good at.  

I'm not saying it wouldn't be very very difficult and painful for her.  The doubt, the fear, the pain of it all would be almost overwhelming and she would have a long hard road.  But where is her faith?  Aren't they all about how the Lord will provide and Jesus is right with you in difficult times?  If the Lord will provide for eleven!y! kids, won't He provide for her as she escapes an adulterous child molester husband?  Adultery is an exception to the no divorce rule even in their circles, they just don't like to talk about it, lest people actually escape abusive situations.  And there is that bible verse they just love to drag out about not associating with sinners that they use to justify their homophobia, well that verse also includes adulterers and I'm sure child molesters are so heinous they don't even have to be listed.  They cherry pick and weaponize the bible.  

All this rambling to say that just because Anna faced difficult choices, it doesn't mean she didn't have any.  I don't blame her for wanting security and I believe she genuinely loves Michelle and the family, but she chose her own self preservation and her position as Forgiving Godly Super Christian over the well being of her children.  

 

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14 minutes ago, WarriorJane said:

She had more options than many fundies do, with having an offer of help from her brother and seeing her siblings take a different path and not be rejected by the family.

I agree with your whole post, but this struck me in particular.

Far more options.  Had she left him she'd have left a man from a wealthy family with a famous brand they wanted to protect.  The last thing they'd need was the tabloids shouting about how Josh didn't pay child support for his small (at the time) quiver.  

No judge would have given Smuggar custody given what we know, so she'd have been entitled to child support and if he didn't pay there would have been legal consequences for him...so mommy and daddy would have paid.

I know child support isn't enough to live on for most of us and like you, I'm not saying it would be easy, but it would have been in the Duggar brands best interest to make damn sure the kids were financially provided for since a lot of humpers hump because they love the kids.

They may have had money on their side, but she had a lot of power in that moment to make a real positive change for her kids and chose to do nothing but resume fellowship with a predator and create more kids who now have to live with having a sex offender for a dad.  

 

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Anna is clinging to the life she feels entitled to- her social media presence shows us she doesn’t want to fade into the background- she wants all the perks of Duggar life. That little whine about being on TV shows us who she is, along with the abortion rants and the Trump support.

She was insufferable when she was in DC ( I remember her retweet about how gays are ruining their children’s lives even if she deleted it) and I often wonder if the porn and cheating sites were a complete shock to her- or whether the shock was when the rest of us found out about it. I sometimes think Josh’s smugness rubbed off on her.

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Anna strikes me as someone who’s genuinely happy allowing other people to tell her what to do and when to do it all the while refusing to accept responsibility for her own actions. 

Anna loves being part of the larger Duggar “crew” too much to take her kids and go back to Florida. They provide everything she could ever want - friends (all those in-laws marrying into the family), loads of free childcare, help with homeschooling, and I’m sure lots else I’m not aware of.

What a shock it will be fore her when her kids are grown and wish she’d have made different choices for them!

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