Spanky Sproul 4: Wicked, Wicked Deeds

[older than allosaurs]

Two of my freejinger obsessions have converged, with Lisa retweeting Lori about how godly wifely submission will win erring husbands back to the Word.

and Doug Wilson? Here's what he had to say back when the Highland Study Center was being exposed back in 2006:

Quote

So honor Ken Talbot, and pray for the RPCGA. Honor RC Jr. and Laurence Windham and pray for St. Peter and the Highland Study Center. Dishonor character assassination web sites — that kind of scurrilous behavior is one reason why prayers of imprecation are still in the Bible. And finally, on a personal level, Laurence Windham and R.C. Jr. are friends of mine. I wanted readers of this blog to know that nothing has happened that would even begin to alter that.

This is a year after Sitler was discovered to be molesting children in Doug's church, which presumably wouldn't have happened had RCJR made Sitler's actions at Highlands public.

 

 

[CyborgKin]

Quote

I’ve seen my own scandals and those of many dear friends play out on the internet. I’ve seen discernment bloggers, mommy bloggers, and countless ordinary social media users speed right past the Bible’s warnings. Some of these people I’ve seen pulled over for speeding. Some I’ve seen stuck in a ditch. Others I’ve seen drive right over the cliff. Whether it is my own sins, or the sins of others, one thing we know for certain- God will not be mocked. And mocking those for whom He sent His Son is mocking Him.

Has he seen any drunk driving with children in the vehicle?

[stylites]

4 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

and Doug Wilson? Here's what he had to say back when the Highland Study Center was being exposed back in 2006:

Wilson has provided a useful public service; if you want to know what ideas, theologies and people won't stand close examination just look at whatever he's said over the years, chances are if it hasn't blown up yet it will very soon.

[You can work out how divisive he must even among CREC circles by looking up Christ Church and Trinity on a map and seeing how far apart they are - they might have moved since - but at one point both churches met within a mile of each other].

[Mary4986]

Hello Beautiful People,

I grew up Fundamentalist, and this blog has been a literal God-send for my post-fundamentalist therapy and PTSD.  I know the Sproul Family personally, both Sr. and Jr., and was indirectly associated with Vision Forum, Jonathan Lindvall, ATI, homeschooling, Focus on the Family, Historical Revisionism, Ken Hamm et. al, Patriarcy, Complimentarianism, etc.  To those of us who experienced any/all of these, we know how both insidious and profound the abuse can be.  But that's not exactly why I'm here.

Have there been any updates on the Sproul children, particularly Mailli?  Last I read here, she was missing. Unfortunately, I don't put it past Junior to do something serious. Hoping she has at least had a welfare check and I just missed the update.  Thanks

[hoipolloi]

49 minutes ago, Mary4986 said:

Have there been any updates on the Sproul children, particularly Mailli? 

Not sure if this counts as an update or even how accurate or truthful it is, but Spanky or Lisa posted this about 6 weeks ago:

Looks like Maili & her two brothers were together at the Sproul home in IN for a belated Xmas celebration. 

In case this disappears, here's a screenshot of one of the photos:

[Palimpsest]

Hello @Mary4986 and welcome to Free Jinger.  I'm very glad the forum has been a help to you.

I'm also worried about the Sproul children still with Jr. and Lisa.  It looks like Mailli is still with them.

 

 

[Mary4986]

Thank you so much you guys.  This is a load off my mind.  As relieved as I am to see Juniors' behavior outed after decades of hypocritical filth and debauchery, his children are darling and have already been through so much.  It's bittersweet for me to see all these people who were so revered in my childhood be exposed.  Here is a list off the top of my head:

John Paulk-Ex-gay crusader bankrolled by 'Dr.' Dobson: Divorced, apologetic, admits everything was horseshit, not living as a gay man.

Exodus Ministries: Apologized for suicides and wrecked lives, now defunct.

Dobson's former host Mike Trout: fired for adulterous affair

Dobson eventually forced out

Gotthard: exposed for sexual assault and fired

Doug Phillips: Sexually assaulting his under-aged nanny

Tullian Tchividjian: serial adulterer

Ian D. Campell: serial adulterer and possible rapist who hanged himself

Duggars: Not financially viable without TV, kids are raising kids, protected child-molester son who was assaulting his own sisters

The Pearls: book is cited in multiple child-deaths

Joshua Harris: recanted, divorced, left Christianity

Ken Hamm: In financial trouble with insurance companies and known to abuse employees

SAHDs: Most girls in the original documentary had their lives wrecked

Bill Hybels: Anti-porn crusader and marriage advocate--outed as sexual harasser and porn-fiend

RC Jr.: tax cheat, huckster, embezzler, drunk, child-abuser, wife-beater, Ashley Madison scumbag currently married to a woman who is 3-times divorced

John McArthur: Currently in trouble for fraud

Ravi Zacharias: Academic fraud and likely adulterer

Doug Wilson: Dingbat white supremacist

Saeed Abedini: Pastor held in Iranian prison supposedly for 'teaching the Bible'.  Loads of money sent to the family.  Finally released from prison and suddenly his wife gets a restraining order against him.  Turns out he's a wife-beater and porn addict.

I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones I can recall off the top of my head.  Think of the money these guys collected over the years.  More importantly, think of the lives they ruined and the peoples' faiths they destroyed.  More often then not, these scandals get swept under the rug and are quietly shushed away, supposedly to protect the 'name of Christ'.  Right.

[hoipolloi]

Welcome, @Mary4986. I'm glad you've found FJ helpful.

Re: your list. The saddest thing of all about it is that there are many, many more of them out there.

I used to call these people "fake Christians" but, as Chrissy Stroop says, they're not fake at all. They are REAL American Christians, every last one of them. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Mary4986]

@Hoipolloi Man, I'm so glad you said this.  Everyone, what is your opinion on some/all of these guys?  Do you think they started out with good intentions and then just got blinded by their own rhetoric?  Do they consider themselves warriors for God and subject to divine protection?  Do you think they were scam-artists from the beginning?  Moreover, why do you think most of the Christian community is so willing to cover all of it up?

One of the things I found so damaging in the Fundie world was the sort of 'Worldly rules don't apply to us' sort of thing.  Someone's a child molester? All sins are equal in the sight of God, and he has repented.  If you gossip or worse, report this to the police, YOU'RE the bad one because you damaged the name of Christ.  God has a bigger purpose at work here.  The Bible is the inerrant word of God that has only one interpretation (ours) and we must follow that whether we like it or not.  Everyone is a sinner, yadda yadda yadda.'

But here is the thing...

I have Roman Catholic friends who shouted from the rooftops after the child molestation came to light, decrying the actions of the Catholic church and calling for action.

I have Muslim friends who shout from the rooftops because they are horrified at the actions of a few Muslim extremists and don't want their faith to be associated with such perversion.

There are (admittedly few) conservative Republicans who are horrified that Donald Trump is now their representative.

I feel like I just don't see much of this from the Fundamentalist community.  Is it just me?  Most of the really thoughtful information about the FundieReich comes from people like Jen from Fundie Fridays and 'The Friendly Banjo Atheist'.  One of the things that makes me really psychotic is the amount of money that is tied up in this.  I know Fundamentalists (like my parents) who have hemorrhaged money to Focus, Exodus, Abedini, Zacharias, Ligonier, Vision Forum, and then are stunned when they hear about these guy's real characters (from me).  Even my mother was upset when her church (St. Andrews, Sproul affiliated) collected thousands of dollars for Abedini.  Then, it was just radio silence.  No one at the church came forward, much less offered a refund.  No one from any of the other organizations came forward.

I have seen this time and time again.  It's all part of God's plan and then if they're really pushed, they'll say Christianity us under attack from Satan.  When the truth is, Fundamentalism is being attacked from within.

[hoipolloi]

10 minutes ago, Mary4986 said:

Do you think they were scam-artists from the beginning? 

In Doug Phillips' case, YES, undoubtedly. Others on your list have histories that are probably more complicated to unpack. If you check out Chrissy Stroop's article at that link, she tries to explain how fundie Christians, particularly in the US, get into the mindset that they or their leaders can be forgiven all, and, conversely, why the rest of us "unbelievers" are doomed no matter what. 

14 minutes ago, Mary4986 said:

Even my mother was upset when her church (St. Andrews, Sproul affiliated) collected thousands of dollars for Abedini.  Then, it was just radio silence. [Emphasis added]

Re: the bolded. *Not* speaking of your family here, but more generally about the many former VF cheerleaders & fellow travelers who are now living their best lives, never having publicly recanted or apologized for the harmful things they did or supported:

In some cases, the radio silence may be a function of actual shame that people might feel for having been taken in by or supporting these criminals. If so, it would be a good thing for them -- especially if they still portray themselves as Christians -- to offer a public apology and denunciation of what they did or enabled others to do. Some folks, like Carmon Friedrich (now Carmon Conover), Jasmine Baucham Holmes, and Crystal Paine have actually done this, at least minimally. 

OTOH, if they are at least as fraudulent and dishonest as their erstwhile idol, Doug Phillips, they just reinvented themselves into personae that most people nowadays would not associate with the VF criminals, unless you knew their backgrounds. Individuals like Jennie Chancey and Stacey McDonald would typify this approach. Then, there are people like Voddie Baucham, Kevin Swanson, and Scott Brown who were happy to rake in the money with Doug Phillips, and continue to run similar scams, but have NEVER apologized publicly (AFAIK) for their support of him or his perverted theology. Outfits like SBC, SGM, or the coalitions such as the Gospel Coalition are also still fleecing the sheeple and appear to be laws unto themselves.

This is why I, as a non-Christian, tend to see Christianity as the root of many if not all evils in the US, right back to the Puritans and their genocidal campaigns against Native Americans, and white slaveholders using the Bible to justify enslaving other human beings. May they all burn in the hells they believe(d) in.

[CyborgKin]

5 hours ago, Mary4986 said:

Doug Wilson: Dingbat white supremacist

and defender of child molesters.

(oh and Ken Ham has one one m.)

[Banyan]

Words fail me, but... Pardon me while I go throw up in the toilet.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Banyan

[Giraffe]

On 3/3/2020 at 1:35 PM, CyborgKin said:

and defender of child molesters.

(oh and Ken Ham has one one m.)

What’s this, please?

On 3/3/2020 at 11:04 AM, Mary4986 said:

1) Do you think they started out with good intentions and then just got blinded by their own rhetoric?  2) Do they consider themselves warriors for God and subject to divine protection?  3) Do you think they were scam-artists from the beginning?  4) Moreover, why do you think most of the Christian community is so willing to cover all of it up?

(I added the numbers to make it easier for me to answer)

1) I give someone like Josh Harris the benefit of the doubt that he fully believed the seriously damaging teachings he spouted. At 21, no one with more adulthood under their belts should have ever given him a platform. That being said, he still caused severe harm to thousands of people.

2) Absolutely. It’s part of their “specialness.” Touch not god’s anointed and other similar verses taken out of context.

3) Many of them were shit humans when they came into the pulpit who got into their ministry as a direct result of knowing many people look to clergy with reverence and would never dare question their actions or teachings. 
 

4) Benefit of the doubt. Don’t want to make waves. It’s not that big a deal. He’s a pastor so he couldn’t have meant it how it seems. I must’ve done something to give him the wrong idea. Enter any other minimizing or victim blaming excuse you can think of. 

[DomWackTroll]

On 3/4/2020 at 6:03 PM, Banyan said:

Words fail me, but... Pardon me while I go throw up in the toilet.

More of Spanky's faux humility. "Truly, I am the greatest sinner of all! And it takes one to know one, which makes me the Sin Expert Guy. So, pay me to tweet about it as as watch sporting events."

[older than allosaurs]

He just loves those cutesy little dualisms:

from "Diffusing Deconversions" on his website:

"...The accusation against us is that we make the Christian faith not just about does and don’ts, but that our don’ts all have to do with taking our pants off. It’s not that Christians have made sexual purity the defining quality of our faith. It’s that the world has made sexual license the defining quality of their faith. It’s just about impossible to construct a syncretistic god out of one God who says, “No sex outside of marriage” and another who says, “Do what thou wilt.”

No, we repent not for being too cold, too hard, too judge-y but for being too warm, too soft, too accommodating. ..."

Yeah, we've all been worried about RC and Lisa being too warm and accommodating.

[Giraffe]

On 3/4/2020 at 4:03 PM, Banyan said:

Little tip for you little Sproul, its not a good idea to talk about your keen sense of moral uprightness when you’ve left such a disgusting trail of proof to the opposite. 

[CyborgKin]

On 3/5/2020 at 11:42 AM, Giraffe said:

What’s this, please?

https://www.freejinger.org/topic/27917-more-info-on-doug-wilson-pedophile-enabler/

[Howl]

On 3/3/2020 at 10:24 AM, Mary4986 said:

Doug Wilson: Dingbat white supremacist

Perfect, succinct description of Doug Wilson. Among all of the obnoxious drivel he spouts, it's very easy to forget that he's a slavery apologist. 

[Mary4986]

Howl--thank you.  It is chilling that this sort of thing gets any traction, but unfortunately, it's alive and well.  As soon as you've accepted colonialism and European dominion, it's a short, slippery slope to slavery apologetics.   I've heard several fundie pastors--not as far right as you would think/hope--insist from the pulpit that slavery was God's provision for the African continent.  To rescue them from savagery and paganism and get some of that good Christianity into them.  'Slavery was the only way.'  Because of course immigration would not be an option for them like it had been for a bunch of other people...?  Yea, don't try to bring basic logic into it or anything.

[Banyan]

I just stumbled across something that makes me think Spanky must be a lot more dangerous than we'd realized, as in Jim Jones dangerous:

Quote

Behind the community center is a large field. It doubles as the St. Peter Presbyterian Church shooting range. The men are encouraged to bring their guns and stockpiles of ammunition for the afternoon shooting event. The combination of guns and booze only seem too consistent for this frenetic setting. The men set up effigies and targets with pictures of disfavored political figures and former presidents. Annual favorites include Bill and Hillary Clinton and George Bush Jr and Sr. After the effigies and picture targets are sufficiently shot to pieces whatever remains is set on fire. This never fails to elicit a thunderous shout of rejoicing... Membership does have its privileges in more ways than just being able to get liquored up, and terrifying your neighbors by firing off thousands of rounds, at church functions.

I can't even imagine the fear that must have gripped the hearts of the residents of little Mendota.

 

[Howl]

On 3/7/2020 at 12:52 PM, older than allosaurs said:

He just loves those cutesy little dualisms:

from "Diffusing Deconversions" on his website:

"...The accusation against us is that we make the Christian faith not just about does and don’ts, but that our don’ts all have to do with taking our pants off.

I abhor the wordsmith-y crap employed by Doug Wilson/Spanky.  Too clever by half. 

[Singingcanary]

 

Hope to reach members with this information.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Singingcanary
Want to post privately to members only.

[Singingcanary]

On 3/2/2020 at 6:12 PM, Palimpsest said:

Hello @Mary4986 and welcome to Free Jinger.  I'm very glad the forum has been a help to you.

I'm also worried about the Sproul children still with Jr. and Lisa.  It looks like Mailli is still with them.

 

 

Maili somehow returned to FL on her 18th birthday after a very late night trip, and contacted her friends immediately.  She is living in self isolation (due to the C virus) with Vesta. She is sooooo happy, and doing very very well (well, despite not being able to physically visit friends). I am so happy for her. She has a very nice and respectable boyfriend, and when she posted her “In a relationship” on FB, her siblings of course are not surprised, so I’m assuming they have been an item for some time. My daughters were worried about her because she was unable to access social media for nearly a year and had no contact with the outside world. Until the HOUR she turned 18, that is.

I love the Sproul children; we took care of them several times while he went on trips, and attended church with them; we knew Spanky personally too. I was lured into the fundie life as a mom to several babes, and fit in like a glove... superficially.  Over the years I began to realize the ill effects of the patriarchal/VF propaganda and so much more (a couple of our children took classes at Spanky U.)... Fortunately my DH never bought into the patriarchal views (partly because he is proud of my advanced education and hopes for college and careers for our daughters), and our views on educated daughters were NOT an idea espoused by the church families with which we were friends.  As our children grew, we began to see our ideas were different.  We had many children because we love babies and see them as gifts... nothing more deeper than that.  We hope we haven’t hurt our daughters with the views that were pressed into our psyche and theirs during our time around the Family, the church of the Saint A, and the L ministry.  Our oldest loves the Lord and attends a church weekly, but rejects the PCA church because of the fear that it will suck her back into the views that StA had... As for the others, Darby had a beautiful baby girl a couple days ago; she will be moving soon to WA state where her DH will work in his company’s HQ.  EC will stay in TN and live with a female roommate while she continues to be groomed for a FT Store Manager’s position at a Starby’s. She has taken classes for culinary arts and hospitality and loves to cook; maybe that will be her future.  They are carving out a life outside of Spanky’s dominating world. Now I just am heartbroken for the little boys... Maili protected them from so much, and I am sure it is devastating her to have left them behind in that world.

[AnnaSofia]

Thank you for the update, I'm extremely happy/relieved to hear that Maili is well, and away from Spanky & Lisa. I knew her birthday was at the end of March, and had my fingers crossed, but worried the Covid 19 situation might further complicate things/give Spanky a reason to keep her there.

 

[Banyan]

7 hours ago, Singingcanary said:

Maili somehow returned to FL on her 18th birthday after a very late night trip, and contacted her friends immediately.  She is living in self isolation (due to the C virus) with Vesta. She is sooooo happy, and doing very very well (well, despite not being able to physically visit friends).

Thank you so much for this update. Hearing of Maili's successful escape comes as a huge relief for many of us. Any word on how Vesta is doing? The poor woman has suffered so much humiliation from her wretch of a son and his psycho wife.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Banyan