Spanky Sproul 4: Wicked, Wicked Deeds

[Howl]

2 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

She really sounds to me like she has delusions of grandeur/grandiosity

It occurred to me today that she may have fantasies of becoming the next Joyce Meyer or Paula White. 

[older than allosaurs]

Quote

Through the years, I’ve been encouraged to write my story. To share the triumph over abuse, perseverance over destruction, abundance over loss, joy over abandonment.

Lisa can hold back no longer. She's writing a memoir and all she needs is a some Facebook friend to help her with editing. Perhaps Lori is available?

[Fallgirl30]

On 12/18/2020 at 9:39 AM, Coconut Flan said:

And that would be the last time I spoke to my mother until she equally publicly apologized and made me absolutely comfortable she would never talk about me publicly without my consent ever again. 

An acquaintance from a church we no longer attend came up to me years ago and asked how was my son?  She told me that my MIL had put in a prayer request that went out to the entire church asking for prayer for our particular struggle.  I am an intensely private person and for my MIL to broadcast it no matter how innocuous she thought it was still makes my blood pressure rise.  It took me years but I don’t put up with a second of her crap anymore.  

[Katzchen24]

Every time Lisa talks about her and Spanky being one flesh, my skin crawls. If you couldn't guess, she's wittering on on FB about how her marriage to Spanky comes stamped with God's seal of approval and how awful her last marriage was. There's also lighting candles for Hanukkah, which I must admit confused me a little.

On 12/20/2020 at 6:40 AM, older than allosaurs said:

Lisa can hold back no longer. She's writing a memoir and all she needs is a some Facebook friend to help her with editing. Perhaps Lori is available?

I don't think about Lisa outside my time on FJ, and I certainly don't let Lori trouble me, but I must admit I was trying to imagine a meeting between the two......

"Mirror, mirror on the wall, 

Who's the Jesusiest of them all?"

[Banyan]

RC Jr and Lisa posted another Sacred Marriage Under Fire. In it they admit they've gotten a lot of push back over the prior 3 episodes. Receiving so much push back would encourage a saner person to go on to other topics. But push back is useful to narcissists. It lets them play the victim, and victimization is food for the toxic soul of the narcissist. So we're likely to see many more wonderful episodes of Sacred Marriage Under Fire. In this episode the Sprouls bemoan that their Presbyterian denomination wasn't okay with RC Jr marrying the 3x divorced Lisa. So far only one comment, but it's a gem.

 

[Banyan]

Good thing I shared the screenshot of Sam Adams' comment because, of course, now it's gone. It must have pissed off Lisa that Sam Adams didn't back their "persecution" narrative. So Lisa countered with her "truth":

Note to Lisa (we know you visit often): I've got all relevant screenshots from your non-sycophant commenters. From the view count it looks like very few people ever bother watching your channel anyway. Hundreds of times more traffic here. Feel free continuing your pursuit of "truth" via comment deletion. No worries. I can always share additional screenshots here where they're guaranteed to be widely seen.

I predict their next move is they'll disable commenting altogether just like Ligonier Ministries suddenly disabled commenting on all their RC Jr YouTube videos. Ligonier disabled comments not long after RC Jr's drunk driving arrest in late 2016, probably because they were suddenly getting barraged with negative comments. You'd think Ligonier would have the good sense to just take all those RC Jr videos down. Instead they're basically reminding their donors that they'd been duped into financially supporting a charlatan for years to the tune of "$1,489,966.00 in salary, pension benefits, severance, and independent contractor payments." That figure doesn't even include 2019-2020 independent contractor payments which Sproul is probably still receiving.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Banyan

[Katzchen24]

44 minutes ago, Banyan said:

Good thing I shared the screenshot of Sam Adams' comment because, of course, now it's gone. It must have pissed off Lisa that Sam Adams didn't back their "persecution" narrative. 

Gone? What a surprise..........

I found this comment by Sam Adams on another video featuring Spanky. The video was on a channel called "Unbelievable" and was an interview with Spanky and another person on the topic of 'How should churches respond when leaders fall?', dated 28/11/2020. This is one comment Lisa won't be able to delete, and it makes me so happy to know that. Even better, from the looks of things it will be seen by a wider audience than any of the self-justifying bullshit on Spanky's channel.

Perhaps Spanky is on the redemption comeback trail? 
 

Spoiler

 

[stylites]

6 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

Gone? What a surprise..........

I found this comment by Sam Adams on another video featuring Spanky. The video was on a channel called "Unbelievable" and was an interview with Spanky and another person on the topic of 'How should churches respond when leaders fall?', dated 28/11/2020.

It’s a regular show broadcast on Premier Christian Radio in the U.K.  I’m surprised that they thought Jr was a suitable guest in the year of our lord 2020. Though Presbyterianism is mostly unknown in the UK, and perhaps he got on there on the basis of minor name recognition.  

[Howl]

Quote

The video was on a channel called "Unbelievable" and was an interview with Spanky and another person on the topic of 'How should churches respond when leaders fall?'

Unpacking this sentence provides me endless delight due to the unintentional parody element.  WTAF.  I'm imagining it as an SNL skit. 

[Banyan]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

Unpacking this sentence provides me endless delight due to the unintentional parody element.  WTAF.  I'm imagining it as an SNL skit. 

Another commenter notes the irony of inviting RC Jr to speak on a podcast entitled "Unbelievable" where the topic is holding Christian leaders accountable when they fall into scandalous sin.

Yup. All the makings of a great SNL skit. 

[Howl]

Wanted to highlight Spanky's illegality noted in the comment left by H. Abramson:  in addition to spiritual abuse, there was tax fraud, identity theft, theft of church funds.  

In addition to spiritual and emotional abuse of his parishioners, Spanky was stealing.  That's some serious stuff. I have to wonder if Ligonier paid off his church to avoid criminal charges.   He's a criminal sociopath.

 

[hoipolloi]

3 minutes ago, Howl said:

I have to wonder if Ligonier paid off his church to avoid criminal charges. 

Good point. I had wondered why nothing came of the allegations of tax fraud -- which seemed pretty credible. So many people knew about it.

[Howl]

Does anyone know what happened to the culture of the church after Spanky was ejected? Did they manage to right themselves after his toxic tenure?  Surely there were many there who were his enablers and especially with the emphasis on alcohol abuse. 

ETA: OK to partially answer my question, I googled and found Highland Ministries web site.  But anyway, it sounds like Highlands Ministry is now an online dealio. They still have Basement Tapes that one can order for a nominal donation ($3 or $4 dollars).  And yes, Spanky, or at least the earlier ones, like the one HERE on patriarchy with Spanky and Denise on the cover, along with another couple and kids. 

Considering what happened in that basement, that's unfortunate labeling.  

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Howl

[Banyan]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Wanted to highlight Spanky's illegality noted in the comment left by H. Abramson:  in addition to spiritual abuse, there was tax fraud, identity theft, theft of church funds. 

Pastors stealing church monies is sadly not all that rare. But the tax fraud and identity theft puts Sproul in a whole different category. Pastors who steal from the church coffers usually get caught, at least eventually, because they're not by nature criminals who know how to get away with crime. They do stupid amateur stuff like using the church credit card to buy themselves a Rolex, etc.

So when a pastor really puts serious thought into a scam I can't help having some morbid curiosity, say like for RC Sproul Jr's travel expense scam. 

Quote

Aside from stealing the tax ID numbers of other churches, one of Junior's favorite scams is double and triple billing his travel expenses. He'd use the Highlands Ministries American Express card for travel expenses (not to mention a lot of other stuff that wasn't legitimate ministry expenses at all). He'd write a check from the Highlands Ministries bank account to pay off the Amex card. Then he'd write a check to himself in the same amount from the St. Peter bank account annotated as "travel reimbursement" even though he'd never paid any of the travel expenses out of his own pocket. On top of that he'd bill the church or ministry that had him speak for his travel expenses. Then he'd pocket the money. If two or more ministries were involved in sponsoring a conference he'd bill them all for the same travel expenses. If his actual travel expenses for an event were $1500 (not an excessive figure given that he typically flew 1st Class, stayed in the nicest hotels and dined at the nicest restaurants) he could easily pocket upwards of $4500 in "reimbursements," none of which had come out of his own pocket in the first place. He did this many times to many churches and ministries, including his closest ministry friends. He defrauded even his own father's Ligonier Ministries. He's pocketed tens of thousands of dollars with his travel expense scam.

You can just tell Sproul spent many hours planning this one out. You can also tell the man has absolutely no conscience when he even ripped off his father's Ligonier Ministries.

[Katzchen24]

More WTF-ness from Spanky. "Should unbelievers celebrate New Years?" 28/29 December. Christmas and Easter, fine. I had NO idea that Christians had a lien on New Years as well....

Here is some of the copied YouTube transcript. I've deleted the time stamps but haven't tried to add grammar etc.

"so yeah if if we're honest if we're outside the faith and we're honest because one of the things we know is that those outside the faith those that we call unbelievers do know very well that there is a god they know very well that god is righteous and holy they know very well that they don't measure up".

No, Spanky, just no. 

 

[Howl]

4 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

unbelievers do know very well that there is a god they know very well that god is righteous and holy they know very well that they don't measure up"

I thought (from personal experience) that unbelievers don't believe in any of that. It's the whole point of being an unbeliever.  

Is it possible that Spanky deeply believes in God, and everything he's saying comes from a place of sincere belief while also being a sociopath? How does this work?

My sense is that his belief system is totally tied up with with the preaching role, to be believed, to have adoring congregants, to run the show, to grift; he seems incapable of humility and being a regular Christian in the pews would be pointless to him.  

He and Lisa are truly a match made in Heaven. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Howl

[MamaJunebug]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

Is it possible that Spanky deeply believes in God, and everything he's saying comes from a place of sincere belief while also being a sociopath? How does this work?

Far be it from me to guess what’s in another person’s mind, but I’ll observe that these words are similar to what so many preach: “Unbelievers can’t have real joy / confidence / peace like believers can.”

Not saying that Spanks is just repeating oft-stated statements.  But I have heard & read such statements a lot in my years. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by MamaJunebug

[Banyan]

Interesting new development. Ligonier Ministries' donors are pissed to learn RC Jr sexted dick pics to Lisa in 2016 while he was still on Ligonier staff. Apparently it's affecting Ligonier's bottom line. Seems sexting your junk to entice women into marrying you isn't okay with Reformed Presbyterians who, from what I gather, are very conservative folks. Ligonier donors are also pissed RC Jr is still getting the Ligonier big bucks post-resignation over his drunk driving conviction. In response to the angry phone calls Ligonier deleted their tax returns from the web site. It all coincides with when their 2019 tax return were due out. Hmmm

Quote

Former Lig Man said...

I'm told your article has brought pressure to bear on Ligonier's management. Donors are phoning in angry, as they should be. Ligonier absolutely hates this kind of public exposure.

You know you're right over the target when they start deleting evidence. That's what Ligonier has been doing in the past two days. On December 28, 2020 they deleted their 2008-2014 990 tax returns from their web site (compare Wayback Machine to Google cache). Then today, December 29, 2020, Ligonier removed all remaining 990 tax returns from their web site. Now all that remains are puff-piece Financial Statements, which of course tell us nothing about who was paid what. I've been keeping an eye on Ligonier's site because now is around the time that tax exempt religious orgs typically post their tax returns from the previous year. I figured they might pull a stupid stunt just like this one. Ligonier is so predictable. They never disappoint, and the timing can't be a coincidence. They're attempting to hide the evidence contained in their 2019 tax return that they're still paying RCJr as an independent contractor.

 

[Howl]

Is it likely that Spanky gets Ligonier bucks through Vesta's continuing influence?  When she crosses the rainbow bridge, I'm sure there will be a major inheritance. 

[Katzchen24]

16 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Far be it from me to guess what’s in another person’s mind, but I’ll observe that these words are similar to what so many preach: “Unbelievers can’t have real joy / confidence / peace like believers can.”

Not saying that Spanks is just repeating oft-stated statements.  But I have heard & read such statements a lot in my years. 

Actually, yes, now that you mention it I've heard similar things. One of my friends was outraged at being told by a Christian that she couldn't be moral because she wasn't a believer. 

Meanwhile, over at Spinderella Sproul......

Spoiler

I'm a harpy!! We're harpies!! I'm so happy.

I don't hate Spanky or Lisa, but I do despise them. I despise them for their hypocrisy exactly because they continue to uphold the patriarchal teachings of Scripture, all the while completely failing to adhere to biblical teachings themselves. Church-shopping when they can't do what they want in the one they're in. Praising their family life while estranging Spanky's kids from him through abuse and lies. I don't know what the story is with the Ringel kids, but the fact that they are also estranged from their mother (stepmother?) speaks volumes. Soaking up unearned money from Ligonier. Being publicly revolting about their former spouses. Drink-driving with minor children in the car. Mostly it's the hypocrisy though. 

Spanky and Lisa should shut the eff up. They may fancy themselves as the next mega ministers to power, but they don't deserve it.

[Botkinetti]

I know being called a harpy is meant to wound me. I guess I’m supposed to examine my life life and beliefs and become a fervent follower of patriarchy.

Nah. I’m good. I’ll continue to read what I please and watch the once mighty crumble.

[Howl]

16 hours ago, Banyan said:

Ligonier Ministries' donors are pissed to learn RC Jr sexted dick pics to Lisa in 2016 while he was still on Ligonier staff.

Spanky: I was a lonely but innocent naif visiting Ashley Madison out of curiosity and just signed up to peek.

Cynical Me: Less than zero chance Lisa was Spanky's first dick pic rodeo.

Re Victor:  Spinderella Sproul gets the damage RC, Jr. caused at Highlands and based on his subsequent actions -- he's likely a sociopath and still poses a danger. 

To get perspective on "Victor" -- he lumps together FJ and Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board. 

fj is home to unrepentant (!) and relentless snarkers of all kinds. 

Julie Anne is a practicing Christian who uses Spiritual Sounding Board: Finding resolve amidst the dissonance of "churchianity" as a platform to call out spiritual/religious/emotional abuse, sexual abuse and hypocrisy in the church.  
"Out of our wounds flow compassion, understanding, & grace. May we all be 'wounded healers' who do no harm."

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

Re: the folks at Spinderella Sproul. They have, IMO, performed a public service in detailing Spanky's revolting career. OTOH, they would likely have had no problem with Spanky had he just stuck with garden-variety Christian talibangelicalism, with its patriarchal system of misogyny & white supremacy. They're all just fine with that shite.

The proof is in their inability to distinguish between FJ and SSB -- to them, it looks like we're all uppity harpies women daring to speak truth to patriarchal powertrips. In my book, this all comes under "let the assholes get in a fight with each other." With luck, they'll take each other down for the count.

[Banyan]

On 12/23/2020 at 2:27 PM, Banyan said:

I predict their next move is they'll disable commenting altogether just like Ligonier Ministries suddenly disabled commenting on all their RC Jr YouTube videos. Ligonier disabled comments not long after RC Jr's drunk driving arrest in late 2016, probably because they were suddenly getting barraged with negative comments. You'd think Ligonier would have the good sense to just take all those RC Jr videos down.

Seems as if Ligonier may have come to its senses. No trace anywhere now in Ligonier's YouTube channel of the numerous RC Jr talks they'd accumulated over the years. Likely not just a coincidence that it comes just as Ligonier disappeared their tax returns. All I can find anymore of RC Jr Ligonier YouTubes is where he was included in Ligonier Q & A sessions. I've seen some really negative comments posted in some of those Q & A sessions re: Junior. Makes me wonder if their next move isn't an attempt to edit Junior out of those videos. May not be very feasible but at least they're headed in the right direction. Must be so humiliating having Spanky ruin the family name.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Banyan

[Howl]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

The proof is in their inability to distinguish between FJ and SSB -- to them, it looks like we're all uppity harpies women daring to speak truth to patriarchal powertrips.

To be clear, it was Victor the commenter who noted FJ and SSB together, rather than Spinderella Sproul.

It is interesting to go back and read the first post on Spinderella Sproul from 2005.  It goes into detail on what was going on in the basement: beer brewed, students housed, the kids bedrooms. 

RC, Jr. got an $85,000 salary, plus $4,000/mo. ministerial housing allowance and a generous benefits package (totaling over $150,000/yr). 

This made my skin crawl: 

Quote

Some people think the Highlands Study Center is just a fundraising scam to pay for RC's brewery and line RC's pockets (cha-ching), but those are just the cynics. Below is a photo, taken by Steven Sitler, of RC's brewery and beer cave. Steven Sitler was a HSC "student" and resided in RC Jr's home the summer of 2003.

I assume the founder of Spinderella Sproul was a St. Peter's congregant personally damaged by Jr. and/or witnessed people who were.  I'd be interested in knowing if his beliefs are the same now as there were years ago in 2005.