Maxwell 36: Wearing What Some Might Call an Outer Garment While Dealing with Cancer in the Family

[petrushka]

There seems to be no shortage of naturopathic oncologists in the Seattle area as discovered with a quick google search.  I wonder if this is what Anna's plan is?

[Tatar-tot]

10 minutes ago, petrushka said:

There seems to be no shortage of naturopathic oncologists in the Seattle area as discovered with a quick google search.  I wonder if this is what Anna's plan is?

Anna has got to be dumb as door nail.

[anjulibai]

What is a medical oncologist? Aren't all oncologists medical? 

This makes me nervous as it sounds experimental. Also, Washington is a hotspot for Covid-19. That is not where she should be going. 

[Tangy Bee]

A relief to know she is actually seeking treatment. I really wish they would get a jump on it before it changes from a 2 to a 4. Wish they didn't have to travel so far away. Three months will probably feel like 3 years. Hoping Anna's family live near the hospital.

 

[freejugar]

Who is behind all these "woo" choices of treatment? first an experimental surgery type and now "different" chemo that sounds like a scam.

Are Steve or Christopher pushing for alternative treatments? why? maybe it's Anna's family? maybe Scamaritan doesn't cover actual chemo?

Also, what is she talking about here?

Quote

The Lord used some unlikely circumstances to get us in contact with a medical oncologist in Seattle

Did an ad for natural chemo pop up?

[Syriana]

1 hour ago, anjulibai said:

What is a medical oncologist? Aren't all oncologists medical? 

 

Normally:

Medical oncologists diagnose/manage/treat cancers (with chemo and other drugs) and are almost always involved in research - research is a standard part of a medical oncologists training. They can advise on all aspects of cancer care and can arrange/administer most systemic therapies, they are also involved with follow up care and adjunctive therapies.  They often work in partnership with clinical oncologists.

Clinical oncologists use chemo and radiotherapy to treat cancers (medical oncologists are not involved with the administration of radiotherapy, although they can provide advice)

Surgical oncologists specialize in the surgical aspects of treating cancer - diagnostic biopsies (in some cases), tumour removal and resection etc.

With a Maxhellion approach...who knows!

Edited March 30, 2020 by Syriana

[fundiefan]

If the chemo is so much more successful & less toxic, why is it only done in Seattle? I am leary of "great cures/treatments" when they're not more widely used than one doctor/clinic/location. I know it takes a lot to get the medical system to make changes and chemo is really, really hard on the body and all that - but still. If it's not woo, why isn't it more readily available as an option?

I just hope, as always, they are making choices based on what Anna wants & needs and nothing else. I hope she is taking the wheel and making her own decisions. I hope future fertility is not playing a role & driving choices for substandard/effective care. 

Time will tell. Whatever she does, I just hope it's her choice. 

[SPHASH]

4 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

Anna has got to be dumb as door nail.

All of the Maxwells are.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

34 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Time will tell. Whatever she does, I just hope it's her choice. 

It won't be.  I don't for a minute mean she's researched and listened and has crafted a plan of action and Christopher is vetoing it...I'm saying I don't think she is capable of that.  She's going to listen to him (and he's going to listen to Steve) and will do as she's told because that's how life works for her.

She won't resent it.  She'll take it as her choice because of course it's the best option or Christopher wouldn't be on board.

Not everyone has the wherewithal to deal with their own treatment without help and leaning on loved ones to help them sort out the options given by medical providers and I'd assume due to their lifestyle she has even less than most.  

[fundiefan]

11 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It won't be.  I don't for a minute mean she's researched and listened and has crafted a plan of action and Christopher is vetoing it...I'm saying I don't think she is capable of that.  She's going to listen to him (and he's going to listen to Steve) and will do as she's told because that's how life works for her.

She won't resent it.  She'll take it as her choice because of course it's the best option or Christopher wouldn't be on board.

Not everyone has the wherewithal to deal with their own treatment without help and leaning on loved ones to help them sort out the options given by medical providers and I'd assume due to their lifestyle she has even less than most.  

I do agree with that, unfortunately. I think no matter what, she will believe it to be her choice. She has lived a life of being told what to do while being convinced she's made the choice. That's why I say I hope. I know it's probably false hope, but it sincerely breaks my heart to believe that a woman does not have the autonomy to make her own decisions & treatment plan.

[FunDieDumDum]

26 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

I do agree with that, unfortunately. I think no matter what, she will believe it to be her choice. She has lived a life of being told what to do while being convinced she's made the choice. That's why I say I hope. I know it's probably false hope, but it sincerely breaks my heart to believe that a woman does not have the autonomy to make her own decisions & treatment plan.

For the most part I agree with both @fundiefanand @HerNameIsBuffy, but there’s just a small flicker of hope, for two reasons.

First, her family wasn’t always fundie - I distinctly remember a relative of hers being on here a number of years ago (it was a cousin or something), talking about how, when Anna was younger, her family was far more mainstream and she was more or less a regular kid. So she wasn’t raised for her entire life to be a fundie doormat wife...even if that’s what she’s lived for a long while, it hasn’t been her lifelong reality.

Second, just given how she expresses herself in writing, I have the distinct impression that behind that always smiling, frumper-wearing fundie mom, lies a very intelligent woman with perhaps more of a backbone than we give her credit for. That’s what I hope for, at least! 

Edit to add: I guess that’s why many of us keep following these people, though - looking for that little flicker of hope that they could break free, grasping at it and holding on tight. For me at least, the psychology behind the way they think, and the hope of being able to watch one of them truly spread their wings and escape their shackles, are the things that make me continue following them!

Edited March 30, 2020 by FunDieDumDum

[pupper]

I wish I could get Anna and Chris to read this:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/be-careful-what-you-wish-for/

[anjulibai]

9 hours ago, Syriana said:

Normally:

Medical oncologists diagnose/manage/treat cancers (with chemo and other drugs) and are almost always involved in research - research is a standard part of a medical oncologists training. They can advise on all aspects of cancer care and can arrange/administer most systemic therapies, they are also involved with follow up care and adjunctive therapies.  They often work in partnership with clinical oncologists.

Clinical oncologists use chemo and radiotherapy to treat cancers (medical oncologists are not involved with the administration of radiotherapy, although they can provide advice)

Surgical oncologists specialize in the surgical aspects of treating cancer - diagnostic biopsies (in some cases), tumour removal and resection etc.

With a Maxhellion approach...who knows!

Thanks for the clarification. My experience has always been that people just say "oncologist", so it struck me as strange that Anna would specify the type. That it's an actual category makes me feel better, though everything else Anna says about this gives me the side eye. I hope she's picked something real. 

[anjulibai]

4 hours ago, pupper said:

I wish I could get Anna and Chris to read this:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/be-careful-what-you-wish-for/

Fuck, the quacks mentioned in this article are in Seattle. 

[PennySycamore]

28 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Fuck, the quacks mentioned in this article are in Seattle. 

I noticed that, too.  @anjulibai.  I hope that they're not making a huge and tragic mistake.  

One of my nurse-midwives did go to Seattle for a bone marrow transplant back in 1987 when she had leukemia, but that was legit.  I'm pretty sure she had her bone marrow transplant down at the University Medical Center.  Unfortunately, it didn't work and she died.  

[louannems]

3 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Fuck, the quacks mentioned in this article are in Seattle. 

I bet Ann Marie is seeking quack "treatment" in Kenmore Washington at Bastyr college of naturepathic medicine.

From what the Maxwells have shared, it doesn't seem that Ann has a terribly rare or advanced form of cancer.  It seems a huge red flag to me that she cannot find appropriate medical treatment locally.  Isn't Kansas City a large city near them?

Bastyr naturepathic doctors do all sorts of pseudoscience like "detoxing" and IV vitamins.

 

[Black Aliss]

12 hours ago, fundiefan said:

If the chemo is so much more successful & less toxic, why is it only done in Seattle? I am leary of "great cures/treatments" when they're not more widely used than one doctor/clinic/location. I know it takes a lot to get the medical system to make changes and chemo is really, really hard on the body and all that - but still. If it's not woo, why isn't it more readily available as an option?

Probably because it's still being studied. Seattle is home to some very highly regarded cancer research institutes, so it's possible this is a treatment protocol that, once all the papers are peer-reviewed and published, will become the standard of care. My husband's chemo was standard of care at the time he received it, but two years earlier it would have been considered irresponsible, if not grounds for malpractice.

[clueliss]

They indeed are not far from KC and KU Med (University of Kansas Medical Center).  

[daisyjane1234]

6 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Probably because it's still being studied. Seattle is home to some very highly regarded cancer research institutes, so it's possible this is a treatment protocol that, once all the papers are peer-reviewed and published, will become the standard of care. My husband's chemo was standard of care at the time he received it, but two years earlier it would have been considered irresponsible, if not grounds for malpractice.

I sincerely hope this in the case.  The fact that her chosen treatment falls outside the accepted standard of care, coupled with the likelihood that that Maxwell's are not sophisticated consumers of medical research worries me.  I sincerely hope she isn't gambling with her life.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m no doctor. I know very little about this stuff. But here is a link to a cancer treatment center in Seattle that could be what Anna is talking about. 

https://www.lifespringcancer.com/our-treatment/low-dose-metronomic-chemotherapy

[Black Aliss]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m no doctor. I know very little about this stuff. But here is a link to a cancer treatment center in Seattle that could be what Anna is talking about. 

https://www.lifespringcancer.com/our-treatment/low-dose-metronomic-chemotherapy

I'm no doctor either and this doesn't match what I charitably thought might be going on--that Anna would be getting a cutting edge chemo regimen. OTOH, this isn't too novel or exclusive to Seattle. On the opposite coast my BIL's best friend is being treated for acute myeloid leukemia and this--a 24/7 infusion of chemo drugs for a couple months--is what he is receiving. I am just very worried for Anna and her children.

ETA: I just got to the part on the lifespringcancer site where the doctor talks about achieving a cure. I am pretty sure doctors don't use that word. There is no cure. One can have a long remission with no evidence of disease, long enough that you die of something else, but you are not cured. My husband's oncologist is surprised and delighted at the length of his remission, but he has never, once, uttered the word "cure".

Edited March 31, 2020 by Black Aliss

[pupper]

The article I sited came up when I searched, "christian naturopathic cancer treatment Seattle" I think they are likely to go this route because there is a christian element to it. More important than actual science.

[nausicaa]

On 3/18/2020 at 11:58 AM, Hane said:

That, and the fact that virtually no reading of fiction was allowed. Stevehovah famously said, “My children don’t read—they write”—but you can’t learn how to write well unless you read the works of a variety of good writers.

It shows how little Steve actually knows about writing. The first advice nearly all successful writers give is read, a ton, and across all genres. (And wth would Steve know about writing anyway? Dude was an engineer.)

 

On 3/18/2020 at 11:56 AM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You aren't fooling anyone, Teri.  Your advice doesn't make a workable long term solution.  Your advice helps one get through a short term storm of anxiety until one can find and resolve the root cause.

When I'm really depressed, this is how I get through days. I struggle with long term projects or anything that is loose and creative. What I can do is fill my day with broken down small tasks like "take out the trash," "drop off recycling," and "make a grocery list." It works when things are really low, but like you said, it's not an emotionally fulfilling way to live. 

Considering Teri's history of depression, her organization methods ring a lot of bells for me...

Edited March 31, 2020 by nausicaa

[nausicaa]

12 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Probably because it's still being studied. Seattle is home to some very highly regarded cancer research institutes...

It's unfortunately also home to a lot of dubious alternative medicine, including the largest naturopathic college in the country. 

I hope you're right, but I'm really worried. The terminology Anna has used, and their delay in getting treatment, is making me think they are not taking a scientific approach to this. 

[fundiefan]

Christopher left his cancer suffering wife, newborn and five other kids two weeks ago to photograph a wedding in Florida. Then came home from a large Florida crowd and brought whatever germs he picked up with him. 

They either need a lot of money so he now has to take weddings rather than be picky, or he's a total ass. 

And, can I just say - a wedding on March 20? Apparently, COVID-19 cannot stop large groups of fundies from celebrating the transfer of authority. 

They also did what the pisser's newlyweds did and mocked the virus with mask wearing photos. Wasting masks medical personnel need for the sake of their immature, dangerous mocking. 

And, pictures in front of CVS Pharmacy - what the hell is that about?

It actually makes me sick.

Edited April 1, 2020 by fundiefan