Chelsy and John Maxwell 8: Killing Demons with a Salt Gun

[JermajestyDuggar]

When I was a teenager, I remember wanting the last name Hawthorne. I thought it sounded so moody and cool. My maiden name is rare, usually spelled incorrectly, and sometimes pronounced completely wrong. My married last name is basically the same way. What makes it even harder is that it’s also a common Indian last name that’s pronounced completely differently than the way we pronounce it. So it’s mispronounced pretty regularly. I admit, I would love a more common name that’s pronounced and spelled correctly by strangers. But it’s not the end of the world. 

[Hane]

When I remarried, I took my second husband’s name, so my daughter and I wound up with different surnames. A problem arose when I went to get passports for her and me: The passport agent required me to produce, in addition to our birth certificates, a copy of my first and second marriage licenses and my divorce decree, to prove my daughter was indeed my child. I told the agent, “But I have full legal custody. Does this mean that her father, who has the same last name she does, could just get her a passport and take her out of the country without my knowledge or permission?” The answer was, “Unfortunately, yes.”

[fundiefan]

12 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

When I was a teenager, I remember wanting the last name Hawthorne. I thought it sounded so moody and cool. My maiden name is rare, usually spelled incorrectly, and sometimes pronounced completely wrong. My married last name is basically the same way. What makes it even harder is that it’s also a common Indian last name that’s pronounced completely differently than the way we pronounce it. So it’s mispronounced pretty regularly. I admit, I would love a more common name that’s pronounced and spelled correctly by strangers. But it’s not the end of the world. 

Truthfully, people will always manage to mangle last names, no matter what. 

The name I grew up with was difficult - both spelling & pronunciation and not even remotely common. 

My married name, while not common, was pronounced exactly as it was spelled. My name now, the one I was born with, is also pronounced exactly as spelled with the added bonus of being easy to break down - two syllables, both exactly as they are on their own as well. Five letters. With both my married last name and my current last name, one of the most common things people do is put an N in the middle of it. There is nothing about either name that even hints at an N, even if you've never heard it before and even if you can't break it out easily phonetically. 

The married name was not easy if you just went for it, but if you looked at it and read the letters, there was no other way to say it. But no one ever, ever did. My name now? Two syllables, both exactly as they'd be separately - think something like Manchild. Man - child. Only people insist on saying Mahn-child

[Black Aliss]

22 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

My daughter is going through this right now.  Not engaged but it's coming and she's bummed because she prefers her name.  I asked why she doesn't just keep it, but she wants to have the same name as her (future) kids.   So I pointed out the kids don't have to have his name, they can talk about it....but she's not interested in being innovative about it.  Now that I'm typing this makes me wonder if she was bothered by me having a different last name growing up and that's why she wants the same as her kids?  Guess I need to have a conversation.

I'm old , so I am kind of surprised this is an issue for "kids these days". Most older boomer women I know kept their names when they married. Most of the ones who did not, caved to family pressure to change their name. Quite a few of them gave their children their last name. One alternated--her son has her (now ex-) husband's last name and her daughter has her last name. A couple came up with a completely new family name. I don't think the hyphenated last name thing ever really caught on with my peer group but I see it a lot in the NY Times Vows write-ups (there, I've identified my guilty pleasure). 

And then there's one of my sisters, who is a serial marrier. She always took the new husband's last name but every time she divorced she went back to her first ex's name, which was also the name her children bore, even after said children were adults. I get that it's a name that everyone can spell and pronounce, unlike our ethnic family name, but this was the ex who used to beat the crap out of her and the kids and tried to kill her a few times.

[Jana814]

9 minutes ago, Hane said:

When I remarried, I took my second husband’s name, so my daughter and I wound up with different surnames. A problem arose when I went to get passports for her and me: The passport agent required me to produce, in addition to our birth certificates, a copy of my first and second marriage licenses and my divorce decree, to prove my daughter was indeed my child. I told the agent, “But I have full legal custody. Does this mean that her father, who has the same last name she does, could just get her a passport and take her out of the country without my knowledge or permission?” The answer was, “Unfortunately, yes.”

Something similar happened to my friend & her mother. When she was starting college. She & her mother opened a bank account together. Her parents are divorced & her mother is remarried. They have different last names & her mother had to bring in documentation to prove she was her mother. 

[fundiefan]

14 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

Something similar happened to my friend & her mother. When she was starting college. She & her mother opened a bank account together. Her parents are divorced & her mother is remarried. They have different last names & her mother had to bring in documentation to prove she was her mother. 

Interesting. I have a checking account for emergencies and my niece is a joint account holder. It's basically for death expenses, since I won't pay for life insurance since if I die, no one is losing income, but someone will have to write the checks to pay the bills. Anyway, we just went to the bank, provided our ID, and that was it. No one asked why we were opening the account beyond the general "business or personal" kinds of questions. She and I do not have the same last name and I don't even think they asked if or how we were related. And...she was only 19 when we opened it.

And it really - really creeps me out that a non custodial parent can just take off with a kid, no questions asked, just because they share a last name. Patriarchy really, really sucks.

Edited May 21, 2021 by fundiefan

[Smash!]

36 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Twice divorced and went back to my maiden name both times it's going to make me a pita for future generations of genealogists in my family, but it's not that big a deal as people adjust pretty quickly.  Then again, I have a very small social circle so it's probably more difficult for others.  

In between marriages I had some writing published under my maiden name so when I married again I hyphenated on published by-lines and I wish I'd just stuck to only using my maiden name for that.

I know some people think it's strange for an adult to change their surname for reasons other than a woman for marriage, but fwiw I've known a few people who have done that for family reasons such as yours and they were much happier for it.  People get used to it faster than you'd think.  My youngest wanted to change his name since high school and I was fully supportive so when he turned 18 I went with him to court.  When he ordered an amended birth certificate with his new name they didn't note what had changed, it looks like his original (that was MD, not sure about other states.)

Thank you for this Good to hear experiences first hand.

I haven't spoken with anyone about my thoughts on my last name. It's very unusual in Switzerland to change the name unless getting married. And not without hurdles. But the thing is I never identified with my dad's family and the pandemic brought to light that my dad doesn't act much different than them even if a life is at stake. But yeah the thought of changing my name to my grandparent's one feels liberating.

[Jana814]

9 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Interesting. I have a checking account for emergencies and my niece is a joint account holder. It's basically for death expenses, since I won't pay for life insurance since if I die, no one is losing income, but someone will have to write the checks to pay the bills. Anyway, we just went to the bank, provided our ID, and that was it. No one asked why we were opening the account beyond the general "business or personal" kinds of questions. She and I do not have the same last name and I don't even think they asked if or how we were related. And...she was only 19 when we opened it.

My friend was only 17 at the time of opening this account & it was 23 years ago. So I think rules might have changed. 

[fundiefan]

1 minute ago, Jana814 said:

My friend was only 17 at the time of opening this account & it was 23 years ago. So I think rules might have changed. 

17 makes sense. It's all just weird to me in not judgmental way but a "why are there different rules everywhere" kind of way. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, Smash! said:

Thank you for this Good to hear experiences first hand.

I haven't spoken with anyone about my thoughts on my last name. It's very unusual in Switzerland to change the name unless getting married. And not without hurdles. But the thing is I never identified with my dad's family and the pandemic brought to light that my dad doesn't act much different than them even if a life is at stake. But yeah the thought of changing my name to my grandparent's one feels liberating.

There are hurdles here too which are annoying, but manageable.

As an aside changing ones name due to marriage has sexism built into our legal procedures...in my state if a woman changes her surname to that of her husband there is no cost and it's as simple as getting a new SSN card and drivers license just showing your marriage license.  If a man changes his name to that of his spouse he has to go through the normal name change procedures which includes not only several hundred dollars, but running ads announcing it in classified over a period of weeks (even if they have no creditors) which is an additional expense, and having a court date where the judge signs off on it making sure it doesn't violate any legal things like doing it to escape a criminal background and some other stipulations.  

One of the few situations where it's easier to be a woman.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

20 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Probably completely unrelated, but I had a therapist tell me once that they noticed I used names and "my" relationships for my kids, siblings, and parents ("my dad," "I have sisters and a brother", "my son", etc.) but when I spoke about my mom's family I'd say "my mother's brother/sister" or "my mother has a large family and there are a lot of cousins" as opposed to "I have a lot of cousins."

Therapist said it was distancing language.  According to her using my and names when referring to people indicates you feel a relationship.  Doesn't have to be a healthy relationship or positive connection, but your subconscious acknowledges the relationship/connection without ambiguity.  "My mother's family" and such she said was distancing as if I was parsing my language describing who they are to me in a technically correct way, but ascribing the relationship to my mom rather than myself.  She said a lot of people do this without being aware of it, I wasn't until she pointed it out.

Also, she said I used "my mom" when referring to most of the time, but "my mother" when I was talking about something painful...but it was always "my daddy" or "my dad" no matter if the context was positive, negative, or neutral.

My husband sometimes does this to an almost ridiculous extent. If he's telling me something that his mom did that he found annoying, he doesn't just call her "my mom", he calls her "your mother-in law". (He even emphasizes it that way.  ) I get the distancing thing, but it can get plain confusing when it's something less obvious like "your sister-in law", because I have 3 of those.  Just use their first name, dear husband!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

My husband sometimes does this to an almost ridiculous extent. If he's telling me something that his mom did that he found annoying, he doesn't just call her "my mom", he calls her "your mother-in law". (He even emphasizes it that way.  ) I get the distancing thing, but it can get plain confusing when it's something less obvious like "your sister-in law", because I have 3 of those.  Just use their first name, dear husband!

I do that with my daughter when one of the dogs farts.  I text her letting her that she needs to do something about "her dog" being malodourous.  They may be my dogs most of the time, but when they are stinky, naughty, or messy they belong to the first kid I see.   

[JanasTattooParlor]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

There are hurdles here too which are annoying, but manageable.

As an aside changing ones name due to marriage has sexism built into our legal procedures...in my state if a woman changes her surname to that of her husband there is no cost and it's as simple as getting a new SSN card and drivers license just showing your marriage license.  If a man changes his name to that of his spouse he has to go through the normal name change procedures which includes not only several hundred dollars, but running ads announcing it in classified over a period of weeks (even if they have no creditors) which is an additional expense, and having a court date where the judge signs off on it making sure it doesn't violate any legal things like doing it to escape a criminal background and some other stipulations.  

One of the few situations where it's easier to be a woman.

I wish it were free in my state! I had to pay for a new drivers license among other things in order to change mine last year. I was very very happy to get rid of my maiden name and take my husbands name. I dislike all of the family that is associated with that name except my brother and my soon to be ex-stepmom. In the South it’s common that a married woman makes her maiden name her middle name and my father was furious that I would not be continuing on his name in that way. I had an actually pretty cool last name (think some kind of official title) but I’m more than happy to let my brother have it for if he ever had kids. 

[PennySycamore]

When my oldest brother go married, he married a woman who married someone whose last name was a variant of ours with a difference of one letter.  

Now, my youngest daughter is in  a relationship with a guy whose last name is like ours except for an additional letter.  The pronunciation is the same though. 

[Ozlsn]

I didn't change my name when I got married, which has never stopped multiple older relatives addressing things to me with my husband's surname. Eh, whatever. We did discuss hyphenating, but one way sounded pretentious and the other was... not good so we left it.

The only time it's been amusing was when my child was born - the babies are listed as Baby [mother's surname] in hospital. Couple that with us using his middle name as his main name (family reasons, I was hormonal and didn't think about it otherwise I might have gone "um, won't this get confusing?") and there were a lot of early hospital appointments which began with me saying "We're here for [middle name] [husband's surname]. But he might be in your system as [first name] [husband's surname], or as [middle name] [my surname]..."

[anachronistic]

My mom changed her name when she got married to my dad from something quite unusual to something very plain and very common, think Miller. She kept Miller when she divorced so it’d be easier on us kids, but then changed it to her second husbands last name when she married him - another unusual and hard to spell name. When they divorced she went back to her maiden name and vowed to never change it again, and has stuck to this even though she’s getting married for the third time this fall. I find the idea of changing my name to be weird but then I don’t like changing anything. When I helped my sister move recently all this stuff was Sister Husbandslastname and it never ceases to amaze me that, no matter how long she’s married, I’ll never think of her as having anything but ‘our’ last name. 
 

My mom having a different last name than me is occasionally inconvenient because she helps me with a lot of my financial stuff and is co signer on most of it, and also is my contact for some state /federal services I receive, like social security and department of developmental disabilities. So we sometimes have to explain that we are related or sign papers to that effect. But ours is a somewhat unusual circumstance. I do know other moms of kids with disabilities often keep their married name after divorcing for just this reason, though : it makes doing paperwork easier when you don’t have explain relationships. And there is a *lot* of paperwork involved in being disabled, so I understand that completely.

[Jana814]

A family friend’s daughter never changed her name. She has been married twice. She has had a very successful career & established herself with her last name. Her sons (twins) have their father’s last name. I don’t think she has ever had an issue when it comes to bank accounts & stuff because she has opened bank accounts with her kids where she already had accounts. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Jana814

[fundiefan]

1 hour ago, Jana814 said:

A family friend’s daughter never changed her name. She has been married twice. She has had a very successful career & established herself with her last name. Her sons (twins) have their father’s last name. I don’t think she has ever had an issue when it comes to bank accounts & stuff because she has opened bank accounts with her kids where she already had accounts. 

If, somehow, I ever marry again, I won't be changing my name. My current name is the one I will die with. I don't have a professional career under any name to be concerned with, but to this day it really pisses me off that I cannot (will not) display my college degree because it is in my married name. I HATE that whenever I do something legal or financial, I have to fill out the "names you've been known by in the past" with two names. I hate that when I renewed my passport a few years ago, I had to send an epic ton of original documentation to prove I am the same person as the one holding the expired passport. I hate that 11 years after being divorced and living in a place I never lived in using the married name, I still get mail addressed to that married woman. I hate that whenever I go to a new Dr office or anywhere really, that uses SS#'s, I have to explain I am divorced, have been for over a decade, and that this is my name. I basically hate that the world follows me as a married person, ignoring the fact that of my almost 54 years of life, I was married & used that name for 13 years. Not even 1/3 of my existence yet I am always accounting for it. Hell, I never have to account for the name I grew up with - the one I held for the longest time of the three I'm been known by-  being different than the name I have now because society expects women to have a different name as an adult than they had as children. 

To all that I say F*ck You. I am who I choose to be, not who you think I should be for whatever worn out patriarchal reason. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I would like to keep my last name and possibly pass it on to my children if I have any. This does not seem to be the norm among people I know and I worry some people will judge me.

 These people who aren't fundie, but are fundie-lite or something sent a friend an invitation to an event for women. The envelope said Mrs. husbandfirstname husbandlastname. Like if Chelsy had been invited, she would have been Mrs. John Maxwell. The people who sent the invitation were millennials and my friend. who was weirded out by the invitation, was a boomer.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I would like to keep my last name and possibly pass it on to my children if I have any. This does not seem to be the norm among people I know and I worry some people will judge me.

 These people who aren't fundie, but are fundie-lite or something sent a friend an invitation to an event for women. The envelope said Mrs. husbandfirstname husbandlastname. Like if Chelsy had been invited, she would have been Mrs. John Maxwell. The people who sent the invitation were millennials and my friend. who was weirded out by the invitation, was a boomer.

I used to be worried about being judged for stuff like that, then I realized those people were going to judge me anyway so might as do what's best for me and my kids.  

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@JermajestyDuggar I always fancied De'Ath or Pendragon! Tbh I'd still like them

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

@JermajestyDuggar I always fancied De'Ath or Pendragon! Tbh I'd still like them

There’s a fundie family with the last name Dragon. One daughter is engaged and I would never take my husband’s last name if I had such a cool last name! 

[Black Aliss]

On 5/25/2021 at 4:25 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

There’s a fundie family with the last name Dragon. One daughter is engaged and I would never take my husband’s last name if I had such a cool last name! 

I used to know a family with the last name Champion. I'm pretty sure none of the daughters (there were 4) changed their names when they married.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

21 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

I used to know a family with the last name Champion. I'm pretty sure none of the daughters (there were 4) changed their names when they married.

Fun fact Clyde Barrow would sometimes use Champion as a middle name, but his original middle name was Chestnut.

I have no practical use for this bit of information, but it's lodged in my brain none the less.

Edited May 26, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[PennySycamore]

Some of us remember The Captain and Tennille from the 70s.  The captain's real name was Daryl Dragon and his father was Carmen Dragon, a conductor, arranger and composer.  

Marge and Gower Champion were pair of married dancers.  Marge's dad, Ernest Belcher, was a dance teacher in Hollywood who taught many dancers in films like Cyd Charisse, Gwen Verdon, and Shirley Temple and he also trained prima ballerina Maria Tallchief.  The first thing Mr Belcher thing with little Betty Marie was to take her off pointe because her idiot teacher in Oklahoma had put her in toe shoes at age five.  (Maria later said that it was a miracle that the Oklahoma teacher didn't ruin her physically.)  It's probably easiest to catch Marge and Gower in the 50s version of Show Boat.  Marge was the dancing model for Snow White, the Blue Fairy in Pinocchio, and the a dancing hippo in Fantasia.  She was the stepmother to Katey Sagal, Peg Bundy in Married With Children.  She died last October at the age of 101.