Josiah & Lauren 17: Proud parents to Lauren's hat...and Bella

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

Don’t people wear them to the races? 

Yes. At least at the Virginia Gold Cup, they're de rigueur. They're pretty common at other steeplechase races too, as well as polo matches. 

Now I'm realizing I need to put "drunken horsey outing" on my post-pandemic activities wish list. 

[HeartsAFundie]

On 9/10/2020 at 11:05 AM, Tatar-tot said:

The little girl is a female version of Josiah.  She is adorable. 

That picture of Bella in the room totally looks like an interior design ad.  And I mean that in the nicest way.  No snark.  It is coordinated perfectly and is a very nice picture.  

It still blows my mind that Josiah is my son's age and is married with a soon-to-be-one-year-old, while my son, a college graduate, is still living at home while working (from home) full-time, playing virtual D & D and Xbox with his buddies, and saving his money so he and his girlfriend can each move out of their respective family residences at 26 (timing it to go off the family health insurance)  and purchase a home of their own. 

[Daisy0322]

19 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

That picture of Bella in the room totally looks like an interior design ad.  And I mean that in the nicest way.  No snark.  It is coordinated perfectly and is a very nice picture.  

It still blows my mind that Josiah is my son's age and is married with a soon-to-be-one-year-old, while my son, a college graduate, is still living at home while working (from home) full-time, playing virtual D & D and Xbox with his buddies, and saving his money so he and his girlfriend can each move out of their respective family residences at 26 (timing it to go off the family health insurance)  and purchase a home of their own. 

It always is interesting to me the different places everyone is at in our 20s. My husband and I got married at 23/24, had our first baby 24/25, bought a house both 25, had our second baby at 26/27. We have plenty of friend similar to us but also lots like your son. I think the real thing here that I find crazy is how little choice they had in the matter and how many of them seem like they would enjoy doing something else- whatever that may be. Honestly Kendra and how seem like the would’ve done the same thing not fundie but couple like siren I could have seen moving to Denver and being hipsters for example. 

[HeartsAFundie]

10 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

It always is interesting to me the different places everyone is at in our 20s. My husband and I got married at 23/24, had our first baby 24/25, bought a house both 25, had our second baby at 26/27. We have plenty of friend similar to us but also lots like your son. I think the real thing here that I find crazy is how little choice they had in the matter and how many of them seem like they would enjoy doing something else- whatever that may be. Honestly Kendra and how seem like the would’ve done the same thing not fundie but couple like siren I could have seen moving to Denver and being hipsters for example. 

Yes, that is so true.  When I was in my early 20's back in the mid '80s it was not uncommon for people to marry in their early 20s and have their first child before age 25.  Then in the 90s people started waiting till they were in their 30s to marry, reserving their 20s as a time for single fun and self-exploration.  At the end of the day it's whatever's right for you.  I married at 28 and I know that I would have been way too immature to marry in my early 20s-especially to the guy I was seeing at the time.  It would have been a complete disaster. But for others, they are fully ready to commit to their significant other in their early 20s and wouldn't have it any other way.  

And as much as my son loves his girlfriend-they met in college and have been together for 3.5 years-he will tell you straight out that he is not ready to get married-mostly due to financial reasons.  That's okay too.   

I also agree with you that the Duggars have very little say in the matter or at the very least, the inability to object and speak their mind if they felt differently.  It's all they know, all they are expected to do, and that's pretty much it.  Which is so sad and so limited.  At least Jill is beginning to realize that.   

Honestly, fundies aside, I think the pendulum is swinging back to marrying younger again.  I think once people feel they have met the right one, that's it.  They don't want to put themselves out there anymore.  And with the crazy way things are now, I can't say I blame them.

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by HeartsAFundie

[front hugs > duggs]

I had to parent my own parents, so when I became my own “adult” I did not want to deal with any responsibility. I didn’t go on some crazy bender or anything. But I certainly wasn’t ready for a serious relationship and had a lot of work to do on myself first. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Man, I thought I had met "the one" when I was 19.  What a trainwreck that relationship was.  I am thankful every day that he cheated on me before we got married, because being tied to him now (especially co parenting) would have been a nightmare.  My husband is a real gem and I wouldn't trade him for anything on earth.

[baldricks_turnip]

2 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

Honestly, fundies aside, I think the pendulum is swinging back to marrying younger again.  I think once people feel they have met the right one, that's it.  They don't want to put themselves out there anymore.  And with the crazy way things are now, I can't say I blame them.

 

I'm 35 (and married), but I have friends, siblings in law and colleagues in their 20s and I never feel the generational divide so much as when it comes to relationships. When I was in my 20s people dated, some seriously, some casually. Some married. There were always people less keen on commitment and there was always your fair share of assholes.
But I talk to people in their 20s now and there seems to be this culture of having a relationship with everything but the label. They are exclusive, physically intimate, enmeshed in their friendship groups, meet the family, assume to have plans together every weekend, etc, but they don't want to call themselves a couple. (This seems to mostly come from the guy's side of things but that might just be me mostly being friends with the female end of the equation). The female partner just seems to accept this, like she would be pushing her luck to hope for more. It makes me sad because it seems to me like the swipe left/swipe right culture has created this 'one foot out the door' mindset where they don't want to call it a relationship so that they can be forever considering other options and end things without warning without considering themselves assholes.

[Mrs Ms]

I did meet “the one” when I was 19 and he 20. If our immature asses had married at that age, the legal and societal pressure of “marriage” would have broken us up. Same as kids or homeownership. We got our mental and emotional shit together around 25 and found a house and got pregnant over the next 2 years. Being able to grow independently and together with nothing forcing us to stay together apart from love and respect was vital for us. 
I see a varied mix of couples working who successfully got together in their early 20s and ones who can’t figure their shit in their 30s in our many siblings/in-laws. 
Blanket statements and arbitrary rules and recommendations aren’t helpful.

[Peaches-n-Beans]

On 9/12/2020 at 1:21 AM, donnal said:

If I recall correctly I think when it aired people had more of a problem with the her absence the day before because she left in the middle of the “compromise” game saying she had a headache. Later during the TH Josiah said he realized after she left that his idea may not have been the best and she was like “Yeah, that was also kinda a part of why I left...” which indicated she was maybe exaggerating her problems to get out of things she didn’t enjoy. So that may have cast her illness the next day into doubt for some. But who knows what to believe out of anybody’s mouth on this show. 

The issue I took with her at the time was that she lied to Josiah about why she left thus missing the point of the game, which i admit Josiah could've been better about asking what she thought, but rather then wait for him to realize on his own it wasn't working or just telling him it wouldn't work she lied and left. Maybe she did have a headache, I don't know, I get migraines and they completely suck, but the way she said "yeah that's kind of why i left" makes me think it had less to do with a headache and more to do with the fact that things weren't going her way. 

Also if I recall, and correct me if I'm wrong I only bothered watching the episode once because why would I suffer through it twice, she told the people at the retreat the reason she didn't come to the vows thing was she was feeling sick, but later in one of the interviews said it was actually because people's kids were up at night and it made her tired. This bothered me because at least one of the other women in attendance was pregnant at the time to and had to deal with their kid being up at night too and so did the other partners and Josiah and all of them could make it, but Lauren couldn't even get out of bed long enough for Josiah to read his part. She didn't necessarily need to participate in the whole activity and I can understand not wanting to, but i got the impression from Josiah that it was important for him to get to do this for her and she didn't really seem to care. 

Basically my whole issue with Lauren in that episode was that she didn't seem willing to try and seemed more willing to make excuses for why she "couldn't" (wouldn't) try rather then put effort in for stuff that's important to her partner. Now I admit I've never really liked Lauren, I don't really know why and I can't put my finger on it and I don't pretend it's a fair dislike at all, but at least with the marriage camp episode I can pin why I don't like her down. 

As for the hats, the trend of beige everything that's going on right now drives me insane, but that's not exclusive to Lauren. My sister is in a beige beige beige trend too and I just don't understand it. I personally can't wear hats, not that i look bad in them or anything I just can't stand the way they feel on my head, but have nothing against hats and have never given any thought to how hats are stored. The only thing that would bother my about Laurens hat storage is when you take one off there's an exposed hook or nail or thumb tack and that would drive me wild but it's her house not mine. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

33 minutes ago, Peaches-n-Beans said:

Also if I recall, and correct me if I'm wrong I only bothered watching the episode once because why would I suffer through it twice, she told the people at the retreat the reason she didn't come to the vows thing was she was feeling sick, but later in one of the interviews said it was actually because people's kids were up at night and it made her tired.

My (possibly faulty) recollection is that it was the other way around. Josiah said she hadn’t slept well because of the noisy kids, but she actually had morning sickness. The episode left it vague, but it seemed like she hadn’t announced to the family at the time. I did think that they could have done their vow thing later, whenever she turned up, instead of making Josiah do that ridiculous solo vow renewal.

[Glasgowghirl]

4 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

My (possibly faulty) recollection is that it was the other way around. Josiah said she hadn’t slept well because of the noisy kids, but she actually had morning sickness. The episode left it vague, but it seemed like she hadn’t announced to the family at the time. I did think that they could have done their vow thing later, whenever she turned up, instead of making Josiah do that ridiculous solo vow renewal.

That would have made sense and I understand Lauren feeling sick in the early stages of pregnancy, after just having a miscarriage a few months previously would have made her extra cautious. 

[Daisy0322]

13 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

My (possibly faulty) recollection is that it was the other way around. Josiah said she hadn’t slept well because of the noisy kids, but she actually had morning sickness. The episode left it vague, but it seemed like she hadn’t announced to the family at the time. I did think that they could have done their vow thing later, whenever she turned up, instead of making Josiah do that ridiculous solo vow renewal.

Preach... and some of us get kind of emotionally unstable while pregnant ✌?. I have to take antidepressants every pregnancy and I am still not a ray of sunshine. I doubt their beliefs let them project anything but joy and blessings though.  i dislike Lauren she rubs me the wrong way but I can still find compassion for the fact that some women are truly miserable pregnant and she had just had a loss that was hard on her. Plus they’re in a cult that has brainwashed them from birth. They’re adults making shitty choices yes but in many ways they’re children. I start discounting them more personally once they start having more and more kids quickly like joken or seem to be heading further into the fundiedom like jessa and Ben. I always hold out hope that they’ll hold that baby and watch them grow for a bit and soften some to make progress. Maybe I’m too optimistic lol 

[Sullie06]

My husband and I were friends in high school. Started dating when he was 18 and I was 19 and were married when I was 23 and he was 21. We were the only ones in our friend group that married "young" and even now at almost 40 we have a lot of friends who are still not married. We however knew we didn't want children right away.  I had our first at 30 and our second at 32. I'm glad we waited to have kids because we did get to travel, work on our careers, buy the home we wanted before we jumped into the next stage of our relationship. 

[whitney37354]

My husband and I became a couple at 15.  We were engaged at 19 and married at 20.  We bought our first home at 21.  We were 32/31 when our only child was born (our choice to wait that long and blessed with being fertile).   Also, we could barely afford to support ourselves month to month until then, when my husband got a better job.  This December we will be married 27 years.  It's not always been easy and I don't know that I would recommend our path to young people now. 

We were never pressured to date or marry.  We are in the "no sex before marriage camp", so those five years of dating were torture.  Looking back, I figure that we were the only two 20 year old virgins in the county, but we were so naive we thought all of our friends were waiting right along with us...;  If we had been older when we met, we would have gotten married earlier.  I wanted to finish college before getting married so I graduated college on Thursday and got married on Saturday!  Oh, to know then what we know now...;

I fully assume that all teenagers are having sex these days and just hope that they are using protection.  Our daughter is 15 and we know her time will come.  We have offered to have her take bcp for her heavy flow & cramps with the additional benefit of no babies, but for now she says all high school boys are stupid and she will just wait.  I'll take it!

[just_ordinary]

I think there will always be people that want to marry early and people who want to wait (talking about people that even want to marry in the first place). Some are ready, some aren’t. Some will grow together, some will grow apart. The important thing is that you don’t give into pressure and make your own decision. And that you will be self sufficient. Either you can make an adult decision, but then you are to be treated like an adult with all its privileges and responsibilities, or you still depend highly on your parents and are part of a classic parent-children hierarchy (with an unequal distribution of resources, experience, responsibilities and knowledge) but then I highly question you if you are able to make such a decision.
I married at 22. We are extremely naive but we grew together. My brother married at 24 and this marriage might not survive (fingers crossed they can solve their problems one way or the other). It can go either way and has a lot to do with the individuals involved.

This whole marriage retreat was so stupid if it would have been me I wouldn’t have left my room at all.

[lumpentheologie]

I think a lot of when people get married is when their friends and family do. I got married at 35 and that was about average in my circles, although I'd say two years later most of my friends are still not married (and there's a lot of skepticism about marriage). Out of my 4 serious boyfriends before my husband only one is married. My mother didn't get married till she was 33 (in the 70s), so I always figured I'd never settle down till my 30s either. I'd be surprised if my brother gets married before 40. Getting married before 25 seems shockingly young to me (esp if you're not pregnant or very religious) but I hardly know anyone personally who got married before their late 20s.  It's interesting to see the range of experiences here on FJ. 

[HeartsAFundie]

28 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I think a lot of when people get married is when their friends and family do. I got married at 35 and that was about average in my circles, although I'd say two years later most of my friends are still not married (and there's a lot of skepticism about marriage). Out of my 4 serious boyfriends before my husband only one is married. My mother didn't get married till she was 33 (in the 70s), so I always figured I'd never settle down till my 30s either. I'd be surprised if my brother gets married before 40. Getting married before 25 seems shockingly young to me (esp if you're not pregnant or very religious) but I hardly know anyone personally who got married before their late 20s.  It's interesting to see the range of experiences here on FJ. 

Just in my own family the range of experiences is interesting:  

Maternal Grandmother:  Born 1902.  Got married in her late 20s, had first child (my aunt) at age 31, then had my mom 8 years later at age 39.  I always considered my maternal grandmother ahead of her time as far as marriage and kids went-although I am sure the Depression played a role in marrying later and spacing kids so far apart. Maternal grandfather born 1903. 

Paternal Grandmother: Born 1918.  Got married at age 20, had first child (my dad) at age 21, then my uncle at age 24.  Paternal grandfather born 1917.

Mother:  Born 1942. Married at age 19, had first child (me) at age 22, then my sister at age 26. Father born 1940. 

Me:  Born 1964.  Married at age 28, had first (only) child at age 31.  Married in the early 90s...during a recession.  Husband born 1964 too. 

Son:  Born 1996.  Has had same exclusive girlfriend since 2017.  Am waiting to see what happens with these two after one of his close college friends gets married in November 2021 and will be the first one in my son's friend group to do so.  As the poster above said, a lot of people get married when friends and family do.   

By breaking it down this way,  I just realized that I subconsciously repeated my maternal grandmother's pattern when it came to marriage age and age of having first child.  It came full circle.      

Edited September 16, 2020 by HeartsAFundie

[elissaeugenia]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:12 PM, Daisy0322 said:

It always is interesting to me the different places everyone is at in our 20s.

I'm 22 and find it interesting as well, particularly with the people I went to school with. From social media postings, most have recently graduated university, either this year or last, and are starting careers, continuing education or still figuring themselves out. A couple are married, a few more are engaged and several have at least one kid. I fall into the recent graduate category, trying to find a job. It's always bizarre to me that Kendra is only a few months younger than me yet will soon be married with three kids! 

 

33 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

My mother didn't get married till she was 33 (in the 70s), so I always figured I'd never settle down till my 30s either.

It's also interesting how our parents influence our views in this way. My parents married at 34, had me at 38/39 and as a result I was always adamant I'd get married and have kids young, because having older parents was 'boring'.

[lumpentheologie]

1 minute ago, elissaeugenia said:

It's also interesting how our parents influence our views in this way. My parents married at 34, had me at 38/39 and as a result I was always adamant I'd get married and have kids young, because having older parents was 'boring'.

Haha, my parents were super boring when I was a teenager, but they had very interesting lives before I came along. That just pushed me in the direction of not having kids. ?

[FluffySnowball]

On 9/14/2020 at 1:12 PM, Daisy0322 said:

It always is interesting to me the different places everyone is at in our 20s. My husband and I got married at 23/24, had our first baby 24/25, bought a house both 25, had our second baby at 26/27. We have plenty of friend similar to us but also lots like your son. I think the real thing here that I find crazy is how little choice they had in the matter and how many of them seem like they would enjoy doing something else- whatever that may be. Honestly Kendra and how seem like the would’ve done the same thing not fundie but couple like siren I could have seen moving to Denver and being hipsters for example. 

I think the key is having a choice and knowing that you can decide which direction to give your life. The 20s are incredibly formative (as I’m experiencing myself - I’m in my mid/late 20s right now) and should be used to start building an independent life. It’s crucial that young people lay the foundation for a happy future.
 

But going straight from cultish upbringing to an essentially arranged, cultish marriage - as Josiah and Lauren have done - doesn’t bode well. Sure, there’s always the chance they are lucky and it will fulfill them and make them happy, but that’s would just be chance. Screw JB and Michelle for the unhealthy influence they have on their (grown) children! 

Edited September 16, 2020 by FluffySnowball

[Daisy0322]

1 hour ago, elissaeugenia said:

 

It's also interesting how our parents influence our views in this way. My parents married at 34, had me at 38/39 and as a result I was always adamant I'd get married and have kids young, because having older parents was 'boring'.

My parents got married a year or so older than me but they never wanted kids until I was a surprise 7 years later. I always wanted a big family and I had an intuition I’d have a hard time getting pregnant. Guess what I was right I started menopause around the same time i got pregnant with my first at 24 which I was told was slim chances. Then they told me I wouldn’t be able to have another and when I called to say I was pregnant they said honey no your not. Finally they saw me when I was 10 weeks already. I’m still crushed it’s unlikely for me to have any more. I don’t think that influenced me though.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Daisy0322

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

I married at 35 because my mom made me ?

Let me explain: after 7 years of being in a domestic partnership (from 20 to 27 - and I was most definitely the "young & naive" type) which was very much like a marriage with a signature on a different type of paper, and which ended very much like a nasty divorce (sigh), I used to say I would never get married, but if I did, it would most definitely be after 35.

So my mom made me set my wedding date 2 days before I turned 35...because she is she. It's the inside joke of the family LOL. 

[Peaches-n-Beans]

I find the marriage thread drift very interesting. 

My parents were 23 and 24 when they married, then had me the next year. My sister on the other hand was 18 when she got married and her husband is 26. My parents separated after 22 years of marriage and good lord has that been a mess.  My sister, well the marriage is only 6 months old so I guess we'll wait and see but her husband seems nice and they seem happy, which is a hugely positive change from when she was living here. 

Me on the other hand, i'm 23 and I don't really even date. I don't really care to and I don't see myself getting married. I do see myself with a lot of Border Collies though

[JanasTattooParlor]

I have this conversation about marriage all the time with friends and colleagues because it’s such an interesting topic! My parents were forced by my grandparents to have a shotgun wedding when they were 30 because my mom was pregnant with me (an oops or baby), and then had my brother when they were 34. They’re now very long divorced. I always remember my mom saying though that 30 was late to get married. I’m now 24, almost 25, and almost all of my friends are married or engaged, and a couple have started to have their first kid. I’m getting married next month. The thing with all my friends though is that the married ones found their spouse either during high school, which I did, or their first year or so of college, so they’ve been together at least five years and are feeling ready for the next step. Most of us don’t want kids anytime soon and are content to wait until we’re 29 or 30 before we start having them because we want to be able to buy a house and travel some before we have kids. Josiah is the Duggar that’s closest in age to me and I think it’s crazy that he has a kid who is almost a year old! I can’t even begin to think about how I would balance being a teacher and a mom right now  it makes me tired just thinking about it. 

[Tangy Bee]

Question for everyone. When is it appropriate to give marriage advice? I remember Joy and Austin speaking at a marriage retreat, 2 months after they got married. I saw a clip if it and it looked like most of the people there were older. I remember being so pissed. What kind of advice does a 19 year old, whose only been married a couple of weeks have to offer people who have been married for years...probably before she had her 1st period. And yes I know everyone has something to offer regardless of age or experience. But a couple of weeks versus a couple of years???