Well the catholic church has just lost a lot of my respect

[doggie]

So they are becoming quiverful after all. breed to make more Christians even if you can't afford it. Breed for god as he love Christians so much. my question is you would think god would limit breeding by non believers if he really cared.

Catholic church in India says have more children

NIRMALA GEORGE

Published: Oct 11, 2011 4:25 AM

NEW DELHI (AP) - Worried about its dwindling numbers, the Roman Catholic church in southern India is exhorting its flock to have more children, with some parishes offering free schooling, medical care and even cash bonuses for large families, church officials said Tuesday.

The strategy comes as India's population tops 1.2 billion, making it the second most populous country in the world after China, and runs counter to a national government policy of limiting family size.

But in the southern state of Kerala, where Catholics have long been a large, important minority, church authorities believe the state's overall Christian population could drop to 17 percent this year, down from 19.5 percent in 1991. While they don't have precise numbers for the Catholic population, they believe it is also dropping sharply.

"The Christian community in Kerala is dwindling. We realized that if the numbers decreased further, it would have a negative impact on the community," said Babu Joseph, spokesman for the Catholic Bishops' Conference of India in New Delhi.

Christianity is widely thought to have come to India in the year 52, when St. Thomas came to Kerala after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

What remains unsaid in Kerala is that the state's Muslim population grew by 1.7 percent between 1991 and 2001, while the Hindu and Christian populations have fallen.

Kerala, once a communist bastion and the state with the highest literacy rate, was about 56 percent Hindu, 19.5 percent Christian and 24 percent Muslim in the last census in 2001.

The church in Kerala is also incensed by a bill drafted by a government panel recommending a strict two-child policy to check population growth.

The bill - which is unlikely to become a law - suggests three months of imprisonment and a 10,000-rupee ($200) fine for couples with more than two children.

So Kerala's Catholic parishes have launched a variety of programs, from free education to free medical care, said the Rev. Jose Kottayil of the Kerala Catholic Bishops Council. Most begin offering the benefits with the fifth child, but the church helps poorer families with fewer children.

The St. Vincent de Paul Forane Church, in the Kerala town of Kalpetta, is offering a bond of 10,000 rupees ($200) in the name of the fifth child. The money would be deposited in a bank until the child turns 18, church officials said.

A large number of church-sponsored groups in Kerala have begun campaigns with the slogan "A large family is a happy family."

Kottayil said the Catholic church plans to honor large families at a ceremony next month.

[BravaAmica]

Really? I lost my respect for the RCC a long time ago.

[doggie]

Really? I lost my respect for the RCC a long time ago.

maybe I should have said what I had left and that was not a lot.

[Rachel333]

That actually doesn't bother me all that much compared to everything else the RCC has done.

[1004srs]

THat is just one group of people within the church. Not all Catholics believe in or even know what they are doing.

Just like you can't be mad at all fundies for what a few do.

[doggie]

THat is just one group of people within the church. Not all Catholics believe in or even know what they are doing.

Just like you can't be mad at all fundies for what a few do.

that works for other churches since they are not all so linked. but with the catholic church the churches can't make their own decisions.

[1004srs]

Yes, they actually do and can.

[emmiedahl]

I know, right? There are religions all over the world trying to get members to have more babies and that is what loses respect? I guess you must hate Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and every other religion out there. Offering a free education is hardly spiritual abuse.

[Lillybee]

Idiotic thinking.

[debrand]

I find this irresponsible on the part of the church.

Imagine that a family realizes that the parents can only support two kids. Free medical care and education might encourage them to have more. But how are they going to feed these children or clothe them? What happens if the local churches doesn't get enough donations to continue the programs?

A far better approach would be for the church to actively improve the living standards of everyone in their country, not just poor Catholics. The P.R. that would result from being kind to everyone would probably gain the church more converts.

There is no guarantee that a baby born to a Catholic couple will remain a member of the church. If the church wants more converts they need to figure out why people loose their faith and fix those problems

[let-them-eat-cake]

Their official stance has always been anti-abortion and anti-birth control. This is not news.

[theologygeek]

that works for other churches since they are not all so linked. but with the catholic church the churches can't make their own decisions.

They sure do make their own decisions.

[lizzy]

Their official stance has always been anti-abortion and anti-birth control. This is not news.

This.

[Patsy]

that works for other churches since they are not all so linked. but with the catholic church the churches can't make their own decisions.

Yes, they actually do and can.

From my perspective, it is becoming a lot harder. Keep toeing the party line or Opus Dei will report you and the hierarchy wil come down on you like a sack of bricks.

[ilovetchotchkes]

From my perspective, it is becoming a lot harder. Keep toeing the party line or Opus Dei will report you and the hierarchy wil come down on you like a sack of bricks.

Yup. My mom had to "call in sick " the day of my conversion to Judaism so she could come. She was afraid her boss would find out and give her hell. Or worse.

I haven't had respect for the RCC since.... uh... never.

[Patsy]

I have plenty of respect for some of the institutions and individuals within it, but being that I do have a lot of connection and involvement with these institutions and individuals... the way the Church controls these things is getting worse. Charity and individual thought and care certainly continue, but from my perspective, individual churches are not free to do as they want, and I mean for 'unimportant' things, and things that aren't that closely linked to central doctrine and dogma.

[margiebargie]

I don't understand why any decent human being would have any respect at all for the catholic church. I'm honestly baffled. The cc is horrible.

I was raised catholic, never had any bad personal experiences with it myself. I even had a sentimental attachment after I deconverted. But the widespread child abuse, hatred of women, hypocrisy toward homosexuals, and overall creepiness has finally forced me to see that it does far more harm than good. It's hard to accept, but it's true.

[1004srs]

I disagree. The Catholic CHurches in the States depend a lot on the Priest and the Parishoners for their stance on things.

Some of the strongest women I know are a Nuns. Social activists. Serving others and fighting for their beliefs.

Some of the local priests in my area know that my kids don't really have a father figure, so they make sure to welcome them and include them.

One of the churches in our area paid the tuition for over 1/2 of the kids in their school this year.

Opus Dei? Most regular Catholics aren't involved or even know much about them.

It isn't all bad and you can't belive all of the stuff in the media about any church.

[Katiebug]

I occasionally listen to the Catholic Channel on my XM radio in the car. It's more in line with my religious thinking (mainline, liturgical Protestant) than the evangelical channel. Their afternoon show and evening show are reasonably interesting. Their morning guy (Gus Lloyd) is a hardcore fanatic, though. Yesterday he was on a screed about birth control and abstinence only education that raised my hackles so much I had to change the station to NPR just to calm down. :) Most mornings that I click over to hear what he's ranting about, I end up changing the channel after a few minutes. He just lacks any compassion or empathy for those whose lives and circumstances don't fall neatly in line with his own experiences or with what a traditional 1950s-esque family structure entails.

For a time there was a Catholic Quiver Full forum online and I "know" online someone who posted there/was a moderator. They are no longer QF (are using NFP) as a result of a tragic loss of a baby and significant unrelated medical problems in the mother. If you read at Catholic Answers there are plenty of QF Catholics out there - they just don't usually call themselves that, possibly since the term/philosophy has been an Evangelical/fundie sort of one.

I know so many wonderful Catholics in real life that I have a hard time reconciling some of the official party line of the Catholic Church with what I see in the real world.

[Patsy]

I disagree. The Catholic CHurches in the States depend a lot on the Priest and the Parishoners for their stance on things.

Some of the strongest women I know are a Nuns. Social activists. Serving others and fighting for their beliefs.

Some of the local priests in my area know that my kids don't really have a father figure, so they make sure to welcome them and include them.

One of the churches in our area paid the tuition for over 1/2 of the kids in their school this year.

Opus Dei? Most regular Catholics aren't involved or even know much about them.

It isn't all bad and you can't belive all of the stuff in the media about any church.

Are you talking to me? I assume from the Opus Dei mention you are. I'm only speaking from what I see here, and what I see here is the hierarchy getting more and more into the business of suppressing individual decisions made by churches, and prioritising and focusing on dogma and other ridiculous crap before the important social justice and community stuff.

That's my whole point. There are plenty of great Catholics, but the Church is a cancer. I'm not working from conspiracy theories and media rumours, I know a huge number of those great Catholics, and in my impression they are being more and more suppressed by the Church in the last five or ten years.

[1004srs]

The Catholic CHurches in the States depend a lot on the Priest and the Parishoners for their stance on things. :roll:

Opus Dei - most normal, regular Catholics don't know about Opus Dei. I am a cradle Catholic and don't know anyone involved in that organization. I don't know anyone from the St. Mary's, KS group either.......or any of the other fringe groups.

Just like the Fundie Royalty with their blogs and 20 kids are not representative of all people who are fundie.

[darareaksmey]

I occasionally listen to the Catholic Channel on my XM radio in the car. It's more in line with my religious thinking (mainline, liturgical Protestant) than the evangelical channel. Their afternoon show and evening show are reasonably interesting. Their morning guy (Gus Lloyd) is a hardcore fanatic, though. Yesterday he was on a screed about birth control and abstinence only education that raised my hackles so much I had to change the station to NPR just to calm down. :) Most mornings that I click over to hear what he's ranting about, I end up changing the channel after a few minutes. He just lacks any compassion or empathy for those whose lives and circumstances don't fall neatly in line with his own experiences or with what a traditional 1950s-esque family structure entails.

For a time there was a Catholic Quiver Full forum online and I "know" online someone who posted there/was a moderator. They are no longer QF (are using NFP) as a result of a tragic loss of a baby and significant unrelated medical problems in the mother. If you read at Catholic Answers there are plenty of QF Catholics out there - they just don't usually call themselves that, possibly since the term/philosophy has been an Evangelical/fundie sort of one.

I know so many wonderful Catholics in real life that I have a hard time reconciling some of the official party line of the Catholic Church with what I see in the real world.

I listen to that channel sometimes too; except here we can get it on AM as well as Sirius. I am also mainline Protestant and I find I agree with very little that's said there. Every program seems to start and end with abortion. The women who host programs on there are so intolerant, and thus right down the RCC line. Barbara McGuigan is the worst, I think.

As for the Indian RCC--well, I guess this is their way of advertising for new members if the conversion program isn't working out so well.

[theologygeek]

I don't understand why any decent human being would have any respect at all for the catholic church. I'm honestly baffled. The cc is horrible.

I was raised catholic, never had any bad personal experiences with it myself. I even had a sentimental attachment after I deconverted. But the widespread child abuse, hatred of women, hypocrisy toward homosexuals, and overall creepiness has finally forced me to see that it does far more harm than good. It's hard to accept, but it's true.

The doctrine has nothing to do with the evil ways of the people in charge. I have studied theology for many years and I really believe that Catholic doctrine is the closest to how Christianity was meant to be. Not all of it, but enough for me to remain Catholic. I don't believe in sola fide, so that cuts out the majority of other choices. Where are people like me supposed to go to church? People who relate most to Catholic doctrine more than the doctrine of any other church are stuck between a rock and a hard place. There aren't many options. It's either go to church and view it as your own one on one time with God while not supporting the evils within, not go to church and worship your own way at home, or go to a church of a different denomination whose doctrine you don't identify with.

[dairyfreelife]

I'm as confused as the others as to how this is new? The quiverfull movement is new, but lots of Catholics already forego birth control. My best friends growing up were Catholics. Two of them (sisters) were the youngest of seven children. It's not rare. I would say that this is not that common and almost all religions try to get more members to have children. I will say that it seems that these Catholics are doing more to help those children they want to create than most quiverfull minded people. VF or ATI would never give their members free medical care and free education yet continually promote having more children. I'm not saying what they are doing is right (because I think it is a terrible idea-they should go help those in squalor and starving to death instead imo), but it is better than VF and ATI, etc. spouting the idea of loads of babies. VF and others have their members living in squalor, lacking basic fundamental skills sometimes and treat conditions herbally instead of taking them to a doctor.

[theologygeek]

I'm as confused as the others as to how this is new? The quiverfull movement is new, but lots of Catholics already forego birth control. My best friends growing up were Catholics. Two of them (sisters) were the youngest of seven children. It's not rare. I would say that this is not that common and almost all religions try to get more members to have children. I will say that it seems that these Catholics are doing more to help those children they want to create than most quiverfull minded people. VF or ATI would never give their members free medical care and free education yet continually promote having more children. I'm not saying what they are doing is right (because I think it is a terrible idea-they should go help those in squalor and starving to death instead imo), but it is better than VF and ATI, etc. spouting the idea of loads of babies. VF and others have their members living in squalor, lacking basic fundamental skills sometimes and treat conditions herbally instead of taking them to a doctor.

The Catholic Church does a lot in India already. This is from Wikipedia, and it doesn't include all the Catholic charities that help feed the poor in India.

"Concern with charity was common to Catholics and Protestants, but with one major difference: whilst the former believe that salvation comes from faith in God which manifests itself in good works such as charity, the latter could not rely on such a possibility, since they believe that only one's faith is a requisite of salvation, and that one's works are insufficient to gain or lose salvation.[18] Consequently, Catholic charitable efforts in India have been extensive.

In Portuguese India, for instance, Saint Francis Xavier and his fellow missionaries were especially careful to help the local charitable institutions by tending to the sick, both spiritually and physically, and performing other works of mercy.[18] The Jesuits' educational institutions, although never succeeding in missionary activities, had left a prestigious impact through their education institutions.[19] Education has become the major priority for the Church in India in recent years with nearly 60% of the Catholic schools situated in rural areas.[20] Even in the early part of the 19th century, Catholic schools had left its emphasis on poor relief and welfare.[21]

Though Catholics make up less than 2 percent of India's population, the Church provides an estimated 22 percent of all health-care services, operating 5,000 facilities, and employs 33 percent of Indian health-care workers, including 40,000 Catholic nurses" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_India