Maxwell 35: Choosing The Right Vest For an Extended Family Member

[Syriana]

11 hours ago, keepsweet said:

Does anybody know if she actually had a biopsy somewhere along the way? All I've read is about her having surgery. A biopsy could have been done easily while she was still pregnant without sedation or anything. 

I know there was talk that the one doctor was 99% certain, but still you think a biopsy would have been done. 

I'm hoping that while she was under GA that they did a sentinel node biopsy...and any further biopsies needed for receptor testing!

[Nootbar]

This is scary: https://samaritanministries.org/blog/researchers-say-breast-cancer-screening-and-treatment-are-too-aggressive

also, I wonder if modesty concerns have or will impact Anna’s treatment and follow up care? Nothing could be worse in modesty terms, right, than exposing your breasts to a team of medical professionals for potentially invasive yet life saving procedures. From what they’ve posted, it doesn’t sound like she’s had a mammogram. Did they allow doctors to do an ultrasound? Biopsy? In some cases, diagnostic MRI is indicated. (No way Scamaritan will want to pay for that. ) Did she have genetic testing to learn if she’s BRCA+? That would greatly impact the course of treatment. I shuddered when I read one of their followers pray for healing, but only “if it is God’s will.” Like there’s a god out there whose will is for a beautiful young mother of six to suffer and die of a highly treatable disease. 

[mango_fandango]

In the very first post about the cancer, it said that the doctors had done some imaging. No specifics as to the type of imaging, but it was mentioned. 

[PennySycamore]

1 hour ago, mango_fandango said:

In the very first post about the cancer, it said that the doctors had done some imaging. No specifics as to the type of imaging, but it was mentioned. 

It may have helped that mammography centers are typically staffed solely by women to put the woman at greater ease about exposing her breasts.   The women who run the mammography center I go to (Pearlie Harris at St Francis in Greenville) are very sensitive to any discomfort that the woman may have.

Of course, I'm not very modest anyway.  Not only did I streak in the spring of '74, but there was a construction platform outside my window when I had my first baby and these guys pretty much saw everything.  That's enough to erase any last shred of modesty I had which was much to begin with.

[deborahlynn1979]

Anna herself wrote an update on her recovery. Seems to be going fairly well. 

 

Quote

Surgery went very well, though due to the continued growth and location of the tumor, the surgeon recommended a more extensive surgery than we were originally hoping for. Christopher and I understood the necessity and agreed that it was best the approach at this point. While the tumor was very close to the chest wall, following surgery the surgeon said it appears that it had not yet penetrated. The surgeon removed some lymph nodes for testing, so once pathology comes back in about a week, we will know the full nature of the tumor and whether it has spread into the lymph system.

 

[kpmom]

1 hour ago, deborahlynn1979 said:

Anna herself wrote an update on her recovery. Seems to be going fairly well. 

 

 

I got a little teary eyed reading her post.

Praying it hasn't penetrated the chest wall or gotten into her lymph system.

Amazing how you can feel so anxious for someone you only "know" through posts on a web site.

[freejugar]

I thought this kind of surgery was for small tumours not spread out ones like it seems she had?

[FloraDoraDolly]

3 hours ago, freejugar said:

I thought this kind of surgery was for small tumours not spread out ones like it seems she had?

One of my high school friends just underwent a double masectomy. Afterward, the docs did tests and found two tumors in addition to the one they already knew about. Something similar might be happening with Anna Marie.

[Syriana]

A more extensive surgery because of the doctor's recommendation and lymph nodes taken for testing...I've just breathed a sigh of relief that some common sense (and good medical practice) has been applied.  Long may it last (the common sense and good practice, not the cancer journey!).

[Queen Of Hearts]

20 hours ago, Nootbar said:

This is scary: https://samaritanministries.org/blog/researchers-say-breast-cancer-screening-and-treatment-are-too-aggressive

also, I wonder if modesty concerns have or will impact Anna’s treatment and follow up care? Nothing could be worse in modesty terms, right, than exposing your breasts to a team of medical professionals for potentially invasive yet life saving procedures. From what they’ve posted, it doesn’t sound like she’s had a mammogram. Did they allow doctors to do an ultrasound? Biopsy? In some cases, diagnostic MRI is indicated. (No way Scamaritan will want to pay for that. ) Did she have genetic testing to learn if she’s BRCA+? That would greatly impact the course of treatment. I shuddered when I read one of their followers pray for healing, but only “if it is God’s will.” Like there’s a god out there whose will is for a beautiful young mother of six to suffer and die of a highly treatable disease. 

The Maxwell's are creepy and weird but they are not stupid, especially with medical care. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise, and meanwhile we have many examples of them embracing the knowledge of the medical community. 

[petrushka]

45 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

The Maxwell's are creepy and weird but they are not stupid, especially with medical care. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise, except for depression and mental health, and meanwhile we have many examples of them embracing the knowledge of the medical community. 

There. Fixed that for ya.

[fundiefan]

On 2/18/2020 at 9:30 AM, louannems said:

My sister is really into woo medicine. She is now anti-vacs and thank goodness all her (vaccinated) kids are adults. She is in her fifties and refuses mammography because of the radiation.  Nevermind she gets lots of radiation flying all over the world all of the time.  So instead of mammograms, she gets thermography, which is done in spas, not a medical facility, and has a high rate of false-negatives and false-positives. 

Oh sweet baby jebus. I have a woo friend. She's a "Reiki Master" - yes, that's the "title" she uses to describe herself. 

No vaccines, no milk/dairy, every.thing.in.the.world is cured with the right food, no mammograms - only thermography, no antibiotics, no chemo or radiation. Only diet. And Reiki. And Meditation. 

What the hell makes people so batshit? 

 

 

[nausicaa]

7 hours ago, Syriana said:

A more extensive surgery because of the doctor's recommendation and lymph nodes taken for testing...I've just breathed a sigh of relief that some common sense (and good medical practice) has been applied.  Long may it last (the common sense and good practice, not the cancer journey!).

Yes, it looks like they're taking the doctors and their recommendations seriously. Long may the non-batshit, common sense engineer side of Steve Maxwell reign. 

28 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Oh sweet baby jebus. I have a woo friend. She's a "Reiki Master" - yes, that's the "title" she uses to describe herself. 

No vaccines, no milk/dairy, every.thing.in.the.world is cured with the right food, no mammograms - only thermography, no antibiotics, no chemo or radiation. Only diet. And Reiki. And Meditation. 

What the hell makes people so batshit? 

Insecurity mixed with arrogance. I have a whole, bitchy theory about the types of women who go for this at a particular point in their lives. 

I don't understand the lack of critical reasoning though. A former coworker came in once enthused about some documentary he'd seen about this cancer center in Mexico and how the guy there can cure all forms of cancer with coffee enemas and argues the human body is designed to be immortal. A quick Google search showed the "documentary" was funded by the dubious cancer center and plenty of people had died down there. Co-worker didn't seem to have an answer for why there weren't a bunch of immortal 100 year olds wandering around Mexico if this worked so well.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

36 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I have a whole, bitchy theory about the types of women who go for this at a particular point in their lives. 

I'm curious if you care to share?

[nausicaa]

10 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm curious if you care to share?

Warning: it's pretty catty.

In my experience (cousins, co-workers, former classmates), it's a lot of women who experienced Dunning-Krueger because of being very attractive when they were young. Men told them what they wanted to hear ("You are SO smart!") because the men were so smitten (or else just openly manipulating them). These women often never bothered to work hard at much because their physical attractiveness created a life where a man would take care of them and so they never had to put themselves out there with really smart/talented people via a job or education like the rest of us had to (and get knocked down a peg or two in the process).

Then they get older and there's not as much attention. Their self-esteem takes a bigger hit because they never built much of a career or found hobbies for fulfillment. Getting into the woo 1. makes them feel smart (and often they really do believe they are as smart as doctors because again, life hasn't really knocked them into reality), 2. creates an identity and career for them, and 3. usually comes with a built in social group of similar women with a similar mentality and life story. 

Obviously, men aren't immune to quackery either, I just haven't observed as much of a pattern with them. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, nausicaa said:

Warning: it's pretty catty.

In my experience (cousins, co-workers, former classmates), it's a lot of women who experienced Dunning-Krueger because of being very attractive when they were young. Men told them what they wanted to hear ("You are SO smart!") because the men were so smitten (or else just openly manipulating them). These women often never bothered to work hard at much because their physical attractiveness created a life where a man would take care of them and so they never had to put themselves out there with really smart/talented people via a job or education like the rest of us had to (and get knocked down a peg or two in the process).

Then they get older and there's not as much attention. Their self-esteem takes a bigger hit because they never built much of a career or found hobbies for fulfillment. Getting into the woo 1. makes them feel smart (and often they really do believe they are as smart as doctors because again, life hasn't really knocked them into reality), 2. creates an identity and career for them, and 3. usually comes with a built in social group of similar women with a similar mentality and life story. 

Obviously, men aren't immune to quackery either, I just haven't observed as much of a pattern with them. 

That's really interesting.  I don't know anyone irl who is into woo of any kind, so it fascinates me.

The extent of my knowledge of Reiki is from ASMR videos.  I don't believe in the woo, at all, but one woman (a "reiki master") has a really soothing voice and the sounds she makes with her hands when she does the reiki stuff knocks me out within 5 minutes.  

But she could as easily be talking about the weather as long as she makes the hand sounds it's like Ambien to me.

There might be something to your theory in that when our main mode of getting through life fails we need to find something else.  

When I was young my mom used to say it's nice when people find you attractive, but it should never be the most important thing about you.  I've passed that on to my daughter...who happens to be conventionally beautiful but it's never been her main focus.

[Alisamer]

@nausicaa You just described Lori Alexander quite well, though she does have an added element of religious superiority combined with laziness.

I'm OK with a lot of the woo - WHEN it's not harmful AND is combined with actual common sense medical treatment. You want to put on a dab of a specific oil and carry a crystal to your actual fact-based medical treatments? Awesome. You want to get Reiki on that knee you just had surgery on? Go for it. You've been stressed out and want to get a gemstone therapy session? Enjoy, it looks really relaxing. Maybe some of that stuff helps, maybe it's placebo effect, maybe it does nothing more than any other comfort object might, but if it's not harmful (ahem, colloidal silver), go for it. But none of that is a replacement for actual scientifically proven fact-based medical care. 

[Black Aliss]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I don't understand the lack of critical reasoning though. A former coworker came in once enthused about some documentary he'd seen about this cancer center in Mexico and how the guy there can cure all forms of cancer with coffee enemas and argues the human body is designed to be immortal. A quick Google search showed the "documentary" was funded by the dubious cancer center and plenty of people had died down there. Co-worker didn't seem to have an answer for why there weren't a bunch of immortal 100 year olds wandering around Mexico if this worked so well.

A co-worker, diagnosed with esophageal cancer some years ago, went to that clinic in Mexico as a last resort after surgery, chemo, and radiation failed to halt the spread of the cancer and the doctors offered no other options. The Mexican clinic had him on massive doses of vitamins, a raw foods diet, and twice-daily coffee enemas. He reported that he was already, after one week, feeling much more energetic. As one would, if one is shooting shots of espresso up one's ass. The cancer continued to spread, however, and when the clinicians blamed his failure to heal himself on the fact that he's allergic to tree-nuts and therefore unable to eat most of their prescribed diet, he left and went home to spend his remaining weeks with his family. Which IMO is where he should have been all along.

[kpmom]

1 hour ago, Black Aliss said:

A co-worker, diagnosed with esophageal cancer some years ago, went to that clinic in Mexico as a last resort after surgery, chemo, and radiation failed to halt the spread of the cancer and the doctors offered no other options.

At least he went to the clinic after traditional treatments failed rather than instead of.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

A co-worker, diagnosed with esophageal cancer some years ago, went to that clinic in Mexico as a last resort after surgery, chemo, and radiation failed to halt the spread of the cancer and the doctors offered no other options. The Mexican clinic had him on massive doses of vitamins, a raw foods diet, and twice-daily coffee enemas. He reported that he was already, after one week, feeling much more energetic. As one would, if one is shooting shots of espresso up one's ass. The cancer continued to spread, however, and when the clinicians blamed his failure to heal himself on the fact that he's allergic to tree-nuts and therefore unable to eat most of their prescribed diet, he left and went home to spend his remaining weeks with his family. Which IMO is where he should have been all along.

Idk if it was the same place, but we were told of a place in Mexico when my mom was diagnosed in the mid 1990s.

We got a lot of suggestions from macrobiotic diet to meditation*, etc.  I felt a lot of guilt for a very long time I didn't try harder to talk her into trying some non-traditional path.  She wouldn't have listened to me anyway, but I still carried the guilt for not trying.

I get why people do it - they want to do SOMETHING.  It's an incredibly helpless feeling watching someone get sicker and sicker despite the best modern medicine could offer.  

*FWIW I'm actually a proponent of meditation for relaxation and to help with anxiety...just not for shrinking tumors.

[SilverBeach]

On 2/17/2020 at 1:43 PM, deborahlynn1979 said:

I had my first mammogram last year and it was not painful in the least. I have enormous breasts, so they had a TON to work with, but honestly, it was the easiest medical procedure I've ever had done. I can only speak for myself, but it was a breeze. 

ITA. I've had dozens of mammograms over the years and NONE of them hurt. Early breastfeeding, now that was some pain!

Edited February 20, 2020 by SilverBeach

[LilMissMetaphor]

5 hours ago, fundiefan said:

What the hell makes people so batshit? 

 

 

Well sometimes, ignorance.

Other times, desperation.

[nelliebelle1197]

On 2/13/2020 at 9:53 PM, usmcmom said:

I just had dinner with my daughter who is an oncology nurse. I gave her the summary of what we’ve learned about Anna. She was very concerned. I won’t try to sum up everything she said but she did think the doctors she works with would have recommended much different treatment plans. 

Except the doctors she works with have not seen biopsy results and imaging.  And we have very little real info.

[louannems]

9 hours ago, fundiefan said:

Oh sweet baby jebus. I have a woo friend. She's a "Reiki Master" - yes, that's the "title" she uses to describe herself. 

No vaccines, no milk/dairy, every.thing.in.the.world is cured with the right food, no mammograms - only thermography, no antibiotics, no chemo or radiation. Only diet. And Reiki. And Meditation. 

What the hell makes people so batshit? 

 

 

My sisteralso believes that gluten causes everything from autism to schziphrenia.

Edited February 21, 2020 by louannems

[Leftitinmysnood]

I've had several patients that tried the alternative "natural cures".  One in particular, we diagnosed the cancer, they went to Mexico for vitamins and coffee enemas, and then came back once they hit late stage 4 and were mad that all we could do was provide palliative care.