Maxwell 35: Choosing The Right Vest For an Extended Family Member

[HoneyBunny]

If the laser surgery is being used to perform a lumpectomy, it’s hard to imagine an easier recovery than that. I’ve had 10 surgeries in my life, and my lumpectomy was, without a doubt, the easiest, least painful one with the quickest recovery. I’m not sure what easier recovery using a laser instead of a scalpel would have brought. 

[HoneyBunny]

23 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Those of you who know, is this a normal time for results?  When my mom was diagnosed she was in surgery for a bowel obstruction and by the time they came out to tell my sisters surgery was over the surgeon knew it was cancer and there was already discussion of which oncologist he wanted her to see.  I'm assuming based on this some aren't as immediately apparent?

 

Waiting for my tumor to be analyzed was the hardest part of the breast cancer experience for me. At this point, though her surgeon may have suspicions, there is no way to know for certain what Anna’s adjuvant treatment will be. My docs used an assay called an Oncotype DX. Parts of the tumor were sent off to California and two weeks later I received the results. In my case, chemo did not appreciatively extend my life expectancy. Then it took a week or so to get the radiation therapy set up.  I had four weeks of radiation. 
 

I happened to come across a photo taken of me when I was ringing the bell on the last day of radiation. I thought I was doing pretty well through the process. I continued to walk and work out, life was pretty much normal except for that daily appointment. But I looked like hell in that photo. It’s not chemo, thank God, but radiation takes a toll. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, HoneyBunny said:

Waiting for my tumor to be analyzed was the hardest part of the breast cancer experience for me. At this point, though her surgeon may have suspicions, there is no way to know for certain what Anna’s adjuvant treatment will be. My docs used an assay called an Oncotype DX. Parts of the tumor were sent off to California and two weeks later I received the results. In my case, chemo did not appreciatively extend my life expectancy. Then it took a week or so to get the radiation therapy set up.  I had four weeks of radiation. 
 

I happened to come across a photo taken of me when I was ringing the bell on the last day of radiation. I thought I was doing pretty well through the process. I continued to walk and work out, life was pretty much normal except for that daily appointment. But I looked like hell in that photo. It’s not chemo, thank God, but radiation takes a toll. 

I am so sorry you had to go through that.  My mom did radiation prior to chemo and it's no joke the toll that takes.  I hope you're doing well, now.

[Syriana]

17 hours ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

I am in no way a medical person so if this is crazy....

Could this allow her to breastfeed again? Also "save" her breast? I think on the last part (saving breast) many women would chose it.

I would think that breast feeding would depend on what other treatment was needed - I have no idea in terms of her current baby but if Anna has anything other than triple negative breast cancer there's a high chance that something like tamoxifen or herceptin could be recommended so further pregnancy would be contraindicated while on those drugs (and for tamoxifen that can be 5 years or more).  With triple negative she'd have a whole other possible nightmare ahead because it's often more aggressive, standard treatment over here is what's known as 'the kitchen sink approach' of surgery, chemo and radio but hte USA may be different.  

Laser ablation is certainly a 'breast saving' approach without significant incisions and there for next to no scarring...I'm just not seeing much evidence to support it being a life saving approach (although I hope it is!)

[adidas]

13 hours ago, fundiefan said:

I'd bet the kind  you seek out who is one of the only who performs said rare, new procedure. 

I agree that they doctor shopped until they found someone who told them what they wanted to hear. Not best medical opinion; not best option; not most likely to have a life saving outcome; just whatever it was they wanted to hear/be told before committing to care. 

While I would usually agree, my FIL’s dr suggested a new treatment for his cancer and while it was definitely a gamble - it paid off. The cost involved was absolutely enormous but we all agreed it was worth it. 

Very different situations but I’m holding out hope that this works for Anna Marie. 

[meee]

Oh no. "Easier recovery" also means "more quickly back to being available for homeschooling and other housewife type duties." I wonder if Christopher's convenience was a factor.

[Melissa1977]

2 hours ago, Syriana said:

Laser ablation is certainly a 'breast saving' approach without significant incisions and there for next to no scarring...I'm just not seeing much evidence to support it being a life saving approach (although I hope it is!)

Two relatives had the laser surgery. Their lumps were tiny and they were over 60 years old, so hormones were "on their favor". They had some radiotherapy, too. It was smooth overall.

It's effective and life saving for sure. But every case must be treated different.

Editing to add that I'm very worried for Anna Marie. My relatives were offered the laser because the lumps were TINY. Not visible. Anna is the opposite side, a big lump growing. 

I do think the doctor shopped and they hope for a miracle baby after that. Anna could be in danger.

I'm very sad... I hope I'm wrong.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Melissa1977
Clarify

[Jana814]

1 hour ago, meee said:

Oh no. "Easier recovery" also means "more quickly back to being available for homeschooling and other housewife type duties." I wonder if Christopher's convenience was a factor.

I was thinking the same thing. I’m sure Christopher or maybe Steve was part of this decision. 

[Botkinetti]

I keep thinking that all the attention on breasts is making Steve feel deeply uncomfortable. The man hates contrasting buttons on women. For a man who wants to control the whole world the idea that other men and women ( highly educated and not necessarily Christian ) will not be asking for his advice or permission must be shaking him. I hope he keeps his thoughts to himself and doesn’t attempt to try to control everything and Anna makes the best  health decisions about her body.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Botkinetti
Duplicate word

[IReallyAmHopewell]

2 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I was thinking the same thing. I’m sure Christopher or maybe Steve was part of this decision. 

I think "easier recovery" was likely attractive for many reasons. Anna M may even have liked it herself. Few women want to leave little children behind motherless. Let's be honest? How many of us say "yipee, I can have  weeksn and weeks of chemo and radiation or a breast lopped off?"  Why not try this would be my answer? Even if some chemo/radiation were still necessary. I think the procedure was appealing I think it may also have been cheaper to do this. Even though they support Scam-not-insurance Christopher could have health insurance for catastrophic illnesses. As for having a later miracle baby--that was my thought when I asked about breast feeding. I meant in the future, not with the current baby.

[daisyjane1234]

2 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I was thinking the same thing. I’m sure Christopher or maybe Steve was part of this decision. 

While I know that Anna totally buys into female submission, I had somehow neglected to think it through in terms of bodily autonomy.  We all know Anna would defer to Christopher with respect to conflict, sex, and all other forms of decision making,  but I wonder how her health care decisions are made.   Who has the final say about what is done, or not done, to her body? Where does submission begin and end?  How "total" is submission, and if there are allowances made for Anna to make decisions independently, what sort of mental/intellectual/theological gymnastics do the Maxwells engage to allow for autonomy in some areas and total submission in others.  

Edited February 13, 2020 by daisyjane1234

[fundiefan]

For all the speculation and "what if" and why's and everything else we are asking / saying / guessing...I hope for only one thing. That Anna has made the choices for her life that are best for her LIFE, not for her way of life or religion or husband or future reproduction. 

Anna making choices for her own healthcare based on her own sense of self preservation. 

Unfortunately, we know the world she inhabits and the people she is surrounded by and the way she was raised - so that begs a million questions. We know she is not autonomous. If I, for example, were in her situation, I'd just have my breasts cut off and be done with it. I wouldn't mess around with trying to save them or anything else. I am not that attached. I know others are, and they would make their own decisions based on their own sense of self preservation, etc. Others would choose to go completely different routes. 

Anna, however, lives in a world where she is not the one to make most of the decisions about her own life. And many that she thinks she makes were programmed into her head long ago, so she didn't really choose, she just does what she's been programmed to believe. 

I refuse to ever call her Anna Marie or even NR Anna anymore. She is an individual, and whether she gets to live as one or not, I won't compound it. She is not who she is in relation to anyone else - she is Anna. And I hope beyond hope that she has been given the space, time, confidence & support to choose her own treatment and her own path. 

 

[MamaJunebug]

2 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I was thinking the same thing. I’m sure Christopher or maybe Steve was part of this decision. 

Well of course they were/are.  Women can’t decide these things for themselves!  And heaven forfend a woman thinks she has any say over her own body...

[Giraffe]

13 minutes ago, daisyjane1234 said:

While I know that Anna totally buys into female submission, I had somehow neglected to think it through in terms of bodily autonomy.  We all know Anna would defer to Christopher with respect to conflict, sex, and all other forms of decision making,  but I wonder how her health care decisions are made.   Who has the final say about what is done, or not done, to her body? Where does submission begin and end?  How "total" is submission, and if there are allowances made for Anna to make decisions independently, what sort of mental/intellectual/theological gymnastics do the Maxwells engage to allow for autonomy in some areas and total submission in others.  

I’m thinking of Terri’s post when one of the kids was young (around 8, I think) and the orthodontist asked the child her opinion. Terri was horrified the orthodontist would dare ask the opinion of a child. Fortunately for Terri the child was already so indoctrinated she didn’t even give an opinion. I wonder if that’s how medical decisions are made with the marrieds. Hopefully it’s not, but I could see Anna being so submissive that she would defer completely to Chris. 
 

@fundiefan, I’m with you on only calling her Anna. It’s disrespectful that the Maxwells changed her name for their convenience. (It’s aso a culty and ashholey thing to do but that pretty much sums up the Maxwells)

[fundiefan]

17 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I’m thinking of Terri’s post when one of the kids was young (around 8, I think) and the orthodontist asked the child her opinion. Terri was horrified the orthodontist would dare ask the opinion of a child. Fortunately for Terri the child was already so indoctrinated she didn’t even give an opinion. I wonder if that’s how medical decisions are made with the marrieds. Hopefully it’s not, but I could see Anna being so submissive that she would defer completely to Chris. 
 

@fundiefan, I’m with you on only calling her Anna. It’s disrespectful that the Maxwells changed her name for their convenience. (It’s aso a culty and ashholey thing to do but that pretty much sums up the Maxwells)

Ah, yes. The eternal question: Whose Mouth Is It? 

https://articles.titus2.com/whose-mouth-is-it/

[HerNameIsBuffy]

26 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

For all the speculation and "what if" and why's and everything else we are asking / saying / guessing...I hope for only one thing. That Anna has made the choices for her life that are best for her LIFE, not for her way of life or religion or husband or future reproduction. 

Anna making choices for her own healthcare based on her own sense of self preservation. 

Unfortunately, we know the world she inhabits and the people she is surrounded by and the way she was raised - so that begs a million questions. We know she is not autonomous. If I, for example, were in her situation, I'd just have my breasts cut off and be done with it. I wouldn't mess around with trying to save them or anything else. I am not that attached. I know others are, and they would make their own decisions based on their own sense of self preservation, etc. Others would choose to go completely different routes. 

Anna, however, lives in a world where she is not the one to make most of the decisions about her own life. And many that she thinks she makes were programmed into her head long ago, so she didn't really choose, she just does what she's been programmed to believe. 

I refuse to ever call her Anna Marie or even NR Anna anymore. She is an individual, and whether she gets to live as one or not, I won't compound it. She is not who she is in relation to anyone else - she is Anna. And I hope beyond hope that she has been given the space, time, confidence & support to choose her own treatment and her own path. 

 

This was beautiful.

[nvmbr02]

11 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Ah, yes. The eternal question: Whose Mouth Is It? 

https://articles.titus2.com/whose-mouth-is-it/

I am just baffled by this every time I read it. I can not fathom why I would not want to teach my children to think for themselves. We are currently going through orthodontic treatments for two of our kids. With both of them the orthodontist laid out the options and we discussed the plan together, with the child. While ultimately it is up to my husband and I to decide on the treatment plan we wanted the kids' opinions. First of all, they are the ones that are going to experience the discomfort that comes with the treatment and secondly we want to teach them how to make these kinds of choices sometimes. 

And Steve, you can teach your children to think for themselves without letting them run the household. It is no wonder your adult children can't function on their own.

[usmcmom]

I don’t believe for one minute that Anna has true final say about her treatment. Perhaps Christopher is saying “Oh that option is best; right Honey?” And she says “Of course.” But she doesn’t get to say “I really want to...”, in my opinion.  

I think the choices made on her behalf have been based on convenience for the family, money, modesty, Christopher’s comfort and Anna’s ability to return to her duties ASAP.  
 

I have been wishing, while following this story, that Anna feels protected, cherished, valued and loved through all of this - that she is being treated as more than someone who keeps the kids and husband on their schedules. I have a feeling her illness is being treated as a giant burden for the Maxwell clan. 

[Jana814]

The thing with Steve Maxwell is that he thinks he has the answer to everything. His kids are to afraid of the outside world because he was the one that scared them. He saw & still sees nothing wrong with how they were raised & doesn’t understand why anyone would question him.

He was probably shocked that the orthodontist would ask his daughter about her own mouth.  

[JennJenn]

To be a fly on the wall in their homes right now. That is the only way any of us will know the entire story in this situation. The Maxwells are only telling parts of it. 

[RachelDM]

Quote

However, she never paused long enough for Mary’s answer nor for Teri to help her understand Biblical authority or even the laws of the state regarding the care of a minor. 

Ughhhhh, obviously that whole post is awful, but I HATE this bit. How DARE she not completely stop working to hear Teri's interpretation of Biblical law! ?

[Lady Grass Lake]

21 hours ago, Alisamer said:

Out of state? I thought the president sharpied KC into Kansas after the Superbowl...

Ugh, yes. Those sentence fragments just come off as so rude, like she is lowering herself to answer their questions.

And I'm also a little concerned about an apparently new, rare treatment for breast cancer, and hoping that it really is the best option for her survival. I think I personally would have been like "Get both these boobs off of me now, just in case! I'll knit myself some temporary knockers until I can get reconstruction!" (But I don't have a newborn to think about, either, so I can't blame her for whatever she chooses.)

Sort of related, I've recently seen yarn meant specifically for making Knitted Knockers at Walmart! 

This caught my eye, and I Googled Knitted Knockers and found the www.knittedknockers.org and you can download  a free  pattern.  Plus it recommends specific types of yarn.  Website said they can be worn without pain quickly after surgery where silicone ones can't be worn for weeks afterward.  I think it's wonderful idea, but I can picture a group of church ladies all gathered together in a church basement frantically knitting away and laughing madly, and someone coming in asking "What are you all doing in here?"   Imagine the surprise when they all hold up their Knockers.  I love it.  

Another thought.  Their mindset is God closes and opens the womb.  So, can't this be interpreted as God sending the message that their quiver is now full and having or not having more children should not enter the picture?  

[fundiefan]

11 minutes ago, Lady Grass Lake said:

This caught my eye, and I Googled Knitted Knockers and found the www.knittedknockers.org and you can download  a free  pattern.  Plus it recommends specific types of yarn.  Website said they can be worn without pain quickly after surgery where silicone ones can't be worn for weeks afterward.  I think it's wonderful idea, but I can picture a group of church ladies all gathered together in a church basement frantically knitting away and laughing madly, and someone coming in asking "What are you all doing in here?"   Imagine the surprise when they all hold up their Knockers.  I love it.  

Another thought.  Their mindset is God closes and opens the womb.  So, can't this be interpreted as God sending the message that their quiver is now full and having or not having more children should not enter the picture?  

Nope. They're all for god being the one to "open" the womb, but when it comes to closing it - well, that's not so cut & dry. It's easy to say god's in control & you're just following along when you are getting what you want. When god's choice isn't the same as yours (ie: make all the babies all the time) it's not so much about him anymore as it about you making the babies. 

I do believe some fundies live their god having made the decision to "close" their womb - but how many go to great lengths to get pregnant/have babies? Erin Bates for one. She couldn't carry a pregnancy without medical intervention. She didn't live with god's decision, she sought medical (human) intervention to get what she wanted; babies. Another, Zoo. When she was pregnant with twins and it was complicated and there were issues, all that god is control crap went out the window (as well as all Obstetricians are pedophiles) so she could be treated to save the babies. 

I have no issue with people taking medical steps to carry to term or save, or even try to save, fetuses. But, with fundies, god never closes the womb. And if he does, it's never spoken of again as god having control of their family size. It's very conveniently dropped from their vocabulary. 

 

[Palimpsest]

Ok, sorry to jump in without reading the eleventy pages I've missed.  In early December I decided to stop reading Maxwell threads temporarily for my own sanity.

So OfChristopher is scheduled for laser ablation of her breast tumor instead of a lumpectomy.  This is not a new technique and it has shown very good results, actually better than lumpectomies.  It is usually only recommended for small tumors that have been detected early in patients believed to be at low risk for metastasis.  And presumably, although the Maxwells are typically vague, OfC has had a biopsy already and a full work-up to determine the type of breast cancer and assess the risks and benefits.  The advantages are that the laser technique is less invasive but also more accurate in getting the whole tumor.  It also leaves a better cosmetic result.  I sincerely doubt the Maxwell men could bully a surgeon into using this technique for their own nefarious reasons.  It would be against all medical ethics.

Novilase Breast Interstitial Laser Therapy has been performed since the early 2000s and there have been several longitudinal studies and clinical trials.  I'm aware of one that started in 2008 and is due to end in June 2020.   It is performed at many sites around the US and got FDA approval around 2014.  My guess is that Chicago is the site closest to the Maxwells.

And the technique was pretty much invented by a woman.  An evil college educated doctor who works outside the home.  Dr. Margaret Chen.  May heaven rain down blessings on her soul.

Sources:  My own research and experiences.  Although, unlike the Maxwells, I don't like to publish my medical history on the internet and plead for prayers.  I'm rather private that way.

Anyway, here's a good recent article about the technique(s). https://www.nyp.org/amazingadvances/research/targeting-early-breast-cancers-with-ablation-therapies

Now I'm sure Anna Marie is scared out of her mind and trusting in God will help her deal with this health crisis.  And I'm sure Steve read and edited her post prior to publication so I'm not aiming this next bit at her.  She also doesn't strike me as terribly intellectually blessed.

Quote

I was reminded that our hope is not in tests, treatments, medical staff, surgeons, pathology reports, etc. Our hope is in the Lord!

That said, we know that God often uses medical teams and are thankful to now have a surgery date set to remove my tumor

No kidding.  I suppose Satan uses them the rest of the time.  And I do hope that you checked that your medical teams are properly Godly.

So blow it out of your collective asses, Maxwells.  You are perfectly happy to use medical expertise when it suits you.  Think Melanie's high risk pregnancies. Steve's heart issues, and now Anna Marie's cancer.  Yet you still preach against college and advocate praying away illness.  

Hypocrites and users.  That is the Maxwells.

But my best wishes to Anna Marie and I hope she ends up cancer-free.  If only for the sake of her children.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Palimpsest

[Tatar-tot]

On 2/12/2020 at 12:34 PM, hollyandivy said:

Cancer Society of Canada has this to say:

 

"Laser surgery isn’t used to treat all types of cancer. It is useful in treating:

precancerous conditions of the cervix such as cervical intraepithelial neoplasia (CIN) and carcinoma in situ of the cervix

esophageal cancer

laryngeal cancer

lung cancer

precancerous conditions of the vagina

precancerous conditions of the vulva

penile cancer

non-cancerous tumours of the skin

Read more: http://www.cancer.ca/en/cancer-information/diagnosis-and-treatment/tests-and-procedures/laser-surgery/?region=on#ixzz6DlJnraEY"

 

No mention of breast cancer. They also say it is fairly new. 

 

I hope it works out for Anna.

I think her local doctors want her to have conventional surgery and this is the low cost alternative otherwise why on earth are they going out of town?  There are tons of oncologists in the Kansas City/Leavenworth area.  It will be a miracle if she survives.