Maxwell 35: Choosing The Right Vest For an Extended Family Member

[Bethy]

9 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I doubt a mother of 6 facing cancer is worried about hair loss. Specially considering Anna Marie is the opposite of vain.

I understand your anxiety, but hair is the last of her problems. 

It's not a matter of vanity, it's a matter of baldness being spiritually shameful.

[Melissa1977]

3 hours ago, Bethy said:

It's not a matter of vanity, it's a matter of baldness being spiritually shameful.

What I meant is that losing (temporary) hair has no importance when facing the extreme fear of dying and leave kids alone.

Maybe I'm seeing it as a mother myself. Hair is nothing. Really. All the women I know that overcome cancer had their hair grown again.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

The gem of the day:

"One could confidently say lots of babysitting happened!"

 

This woman calls herself an author....

[Hane]

And it’s *so* important to point out that Betsy and Christina were wearing running skirts, to ward off the inevitable shock at the fear that they were wearing track pants like normal people.

Also, as an Old, I’m *done* with all the pics of fundie gals cradling their pregnancy bumps. To me, it looks the opposite of “modest.”

Edited February 11, 2020 by Hane

[fundiefan]

1 minute ago, Hane said:

And it’s *so* important to point out that Betsy and Christina were wearing running skirts, to ward off the inevitable shock at the fear that they were wearing track pants like normal people.

Oh my god! People might think they are wearing pants! That wold be the end of the world as we know it. 

When you get tied down in irrelevant BS like clothing, you lose all sight of what the bible is actually saying. 

[Coconut Flan]

9 minutes ago, Hane said:

Also, as an Old, I’m *done* with all the pics of fundie gals cradling their pregnancy bumps. To me, it looks the opposite of “modest.”

You know it's bad when even the Maxwells succumb to the digging in the crotch look.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

When you get tied down in irrelevant BS like clothing, you lose all sight of what the bible is actually saying. 

It's easy, that's why they do it.  Whether one is a believer or not the bible is a complex series of books originally written in antiquity which scholars have studied and departed interpretations for millennia.

Pants bad, skirts good is simple enough for any of them to grasp.  

 

 

[SPHASH]

56 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Oh my god! People might think they are wearing pants! That wold be the end of the world as we know it. 

When you get tied down in irrelevant BS like clothing, you lose all sight of what the bible is actually saying. 

These are the same people who covered up Bethy's belly with MS Crayon in her baptism pic, posted pics of Judgy Chelsy from the waist up so you couldn't tell she was wearing jeans, and make Ruthie and Liddy wear long skirts over snow pants.

Edited February 11, 2020 by SPHASH
Spelling

[Black Aliss]

As I recall, there was considerable speculation that John Demcak was checking out Anna and possibly Mary as objects of courting because he was visiting the Maxwells fairly often. It later appeared to have been strictly business, as he was working with whichever one of the Max Juniors has/had the irrigation design business. But in order to distinguish him from John Maxwell, in case he did actually court and marry one of the ofSteves, he was given the moniker John Marie.

 

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, fundiefan said:

Oh my god! People might think they are wearing pants! That wold be the end of the world as we know it. 

When you get tied down in irrelevant BS like clothing, you lose all sight of what the bible is actually saying. 

I agree. Irrelevant BS like clothing, but also plenty of other dumb stuff like just about every rule they have about what women can do, what people should watch, read or listen to... 

Really, I think about 99% of their rules are stupid BS.

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's easy, that's why they do it.  Whether one is a believer or not the bible is a complex series of books originally written in antiquity which scholars have studied and departed interpretations for millennia.

Pants bad, skirts good is simple enough for any of them to grasp.  

I agree with this, too. The Bible is complex, contradictory in some ways, and in general just is a very difficult document. Combine this with the shoddy homeschooling many fundies get, and sometimes a general lack of intelligence (Bro. Gary...) and you get stuff like "pants bad, skirts good."

I also think a lot of it is fear. They fear hell. Their faith isn't as strong as they wish it was or portray it to be, and they are terrified of a vindictive old-testament God ready to send them on to eternal torment. I still think Steve had some fun in his younger days that he thinks he has to atone for, and he's dragged the whole family into his personal purgatory. 

They say stuff like "accept Jesus in your heart, and you're saved" and things like that. But they don't truly believe it no matter how much they say they do. If they did, they wouldn't keep trying to check off items on a list of "how not to piss off God". 

And also on top of checking off the list and trying to assuage their fears, it makes them feel superior. Steve has got to be super smug. Not only has he filled his quiver, he's kept them "pure". His 38 year old daughter is not only a virgin... she's a stay at home daughter who has never had a date, always wears skirts, does exactly what daddy tells her to do, and never complains about the monotony of her life. 

I don't think he is the least bit sure that God actually cares whether women wear pants or skirts. But just in case, he can be all superior about how "Godly" his family is in the way they dress. With the added bonus of limiting his daughters further. And being a constant reminder of God. 

Personally, trying to ride a bike or hike with 10 pounds of denim flapping around my ankles would definitely be a reminder of God. I'd be constantly thinking about Him and the dumb requirements Steve seems to think He has. Not in a positive way, but I'd be thinking about God. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I still think Steve had some fun in his younger days that he thinks he has to atone for, and he's dragged the whole family into his personal purgatory. 

You've hit the nail on the head, I never thought of it like this before but that's what it is.

He's got them in a perpetual state of purgatory to atone now so they can cut to the front of the line when the time comes.  How very Catholic of Steve.

17 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

It later appeared to have been strictly business, as he was working with whichever one of the Max Juniors has/had the irrigation design business.

That was John.  And I really want to not know these things.

[nelliebelle1197]

20 hours ago, Bethy said:

It's not a matter of vanity, it's a matter of baldness being spiritually shameful.

The Maxwells really aren't those types of fundy.

[meee]

I am checking this thread several times a day. I'm so worried for Anna Marie. 

Dumb question: I remember they said they'd give her four weeks or so to recover after birth before doing surgery, but why is that? I know 4-6 weeks is standard recovery time for things like returning to work, sex, exercise, etc., but surely a life-threatening disease can be operated on while one's other body parts are recovering from a (presumably given her history and what we know of Simon Peter's birth) uncomplicated childbirth? Surely better that than wait, if it was changing/spreading that fast over the course of her pregnancy? I am so confused. 

[Granwych]

5 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I agree. Irrelevant BS like clothing, but also plenty of other dumb stuff like just about every rule they have about what women can do, what people should watch, read or listen to... 

Really, I think about 99% of their rules are stupid BS.

I agree with this, too. The Bible is complex, contradictory in some ways, and in general just is a very difficult document. Combine this with the shoddy homeschooling many fundies get, and sometimes a general lack of intelligence (Bro. Gary...) and you get stuff like "pants bad, skirts good."

I also think a lot of it is fear. They fear hell. Their faith isn't as strong as they wish it was or portray it to be, and they are terrified of a vindictive old-testament God ready to send them on to eternal torment. I still think Steve had some fun in his younger days that he thinks he has to atone for, and he's dragged the whole family into his personal purgatory. 

They say stuff like "accept Jesus in your heart, and you're saved" and things like that. But they don't truly believe it no matter how much they say they do. If they did, they wouldn't keep trying to check off items on a list of "how not to piss off God". 

And also on top of checking off the list and trying to assuage their fears, it makes them feel superior. Steve has got to be super smug. Not only has he filled his quiver, he's kept them "pure". His 38 year old daughter is not only a virgin... she's a stay at home daughter who has never had a date, always wears skirts, does exactly what daddy tells her to do, and never complains about the monotony of her life. 

I don't think he is the least bit sure that God actually cares whether women wear pants or skirts. But just in case, he can be all superior about how "Godly" his family is in the way they dress. With the added bonus of limiting his daughters further. And being a constant reminder of God. 

Personally, trying to ride a bike or hike with 10 pounds of denim flapping around my ankles would definitely be a reminder of God. I'd be constantly thinking about Him and the dumb requirements Steve seems to think He has. Not in a positive way, but I'd be thinking about God. 

I think Steve just really likes being the Maxwell god.

[Jana814]

9 minutes ago, Granwych said:

I think Steve just really likes being the Maxwell god.

I always thought this also. He doesn’t understand why the outside world doesn’t worship him like his family & their church members do. 

[Black Aliss]

2 hours ago, meee said:

I am checking this thread several times a day. I'm so worried for Anna Marie. 

Dumb question: I remember they said they'd give her four weeks or so to recover after birth before doing surgery, but why is that? I know 4-6 weeks is standard recovery time for things like returning to work, sex, exercise, etc., but surely a life-threatening disease can be operated on while one's other body parts are recovering from a (presumably given her history and what we know of Simon Peter's birth) uncomplicated childbirth? Surely better that than wait, if it was changing/spreading that fast over the course of her pregnancy? I am so confused. 

I suspect her milk needs to dry up before they can operate. This is, I think, usually done by administering hormones (DES in the past) but perhaps that's not an option with breast cancer, and they are waiting for it to happen naturally.  I just hope the delay is a decision the doctors are making and not caused by shopping and praying for second and third opinions. 

When my husband was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer, it felt like it took forever for them to start chemo infusions. Like, I'm thinking close to 3 months? A port had to be inserted, and that took a while, and there were holidays in the middle where the hospital was short-staffed,They had given him hormones to temporarily stop the cancer from growing, but still, the wait was nerve-wracking.

[Bethy]

7 hours ago, Alisamer said:

His 38 year old daughter is not only a virgin... she's a stay at home daughter who has never had a date, always wears skirts, does exactly what daddy tells her to do, and never complains about the monotony of her life. 

I think at some point she had done what some might call complaining and she had to write that awful "the Lord has shown me that I'm terribly ungrateful" blog post a couple weeks after her birthday one year. I'm thinking 2013 or 2014...after they went to some drive-thru zoo as her birthday celebration. I'm more sure about the zoo than I am about the date.

[PennySycamore]

Anna Marie should not have much milk to dry up if she never initiated breastfeeding.  (Maybe she did nurse the baby for a few feeds or a week, so he'd get the colostrum. ) While they don't use dry-up meds like bromocriptine anymore, they could still use sage tea, antihistamines and B6 (600 mg for three days, IIRC) to help her dry up.  Those are the measures we recommend for the mother who needs to dry up her milk fast.  

[jakesykora]

Update on the blog from Anna Marie.

Surgery is scheduled for the 18th, out of state, by a surgeon who specializes in laser surgery. They expect another week or so for pathology results after that.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, jakesykora said:

Update on the blog from Anna Marie.

Surgery is scheduled for the 18th, out of state, by a surgeon who specializes in laser surgery. They expect another week or so for pathology results after that.

Those of you who know, is this a normal time for results?  When my mom was diagnosed she was in surgery for a bowel obstruction and by the time they came out to tell my sisters surgery was over the surgeon knew it was cancer and there was already discussion of which oncologist he wanted her to see.  I'm assuming based on this some aren't as immediately apparent?

 

[Coconut Flan]

My experience was the same Buffy except I ended up not having colon cancer, but some bizarre issue.  Still it was identified during surgery, initial biopsy done, and when the surgeon met my daughter he had photos, referral to a specialist, and expected plan to offer her.  They had additional pathology reports the next day.

[PennySycamore]

When my daughter had surgery to have her brain tumor removed,  I'm pretty sure that the surgeon was able to tell us that the tumor was benign when we talked to him right after surgery.  The tumor was sent to the pathology lab right after it was removed.  Maybe they're doing biopsies on lymph nodes, etc, to check to see if there has been any spread or if thecancer was confined to the breast.  

I've wondered if Scamaritan would pay for one of the chemo meds for metastatic breast cancer if Anna Marie has that.

[nvmbr02]

When our friend's son had brain cancer recently we didn't fin out the full pathology report for about 8-10 days post surgery. They knew that it was likely cancer from the CT scan and the surgeon was pretty confident that it was malignant when he removed it. But it took quite awhile for the full report with exactly what type of cancer it was. His treatment post surgery didn't start until after the pathology report was back, even though the cancer was very aggressive. 

[MamaJunebug]

On 2/10/2020 at 9:33 AM, Eternalbluepearl said:

The way some christians talk about death or dying or illness is just so odd to me. Like they feel they can't just say "this is awful" they have to also mention God's will, death is okay because of Jesus etc. It feels to me like you can't *really* say what you want lest another Christian catch you not being positive. 

I was raised Old-school Lutheran back when they gave you credit for having a brain,* and this is what I heard from Day 1 whenever illness was announced:

We were, and are, “allowed” to say “ This is awful,” and to cry, and demand to know why. 

To me it’s never been about not being positive, but about acknowledging — after we pray for healing and renewed health — that God is mysterious, and not our errand boy, and that we have no guarantees that things will turn out well.  Realism, as I see it. 

We never hear or say that “death is OK because Jesus.”  Death sucks and shouldn’t be, but because the world is effed up by sin (that phrase isn’t official Lutheran doctrine), it’s a reality.

And yes, we take comfort — sometimes not right away— in believing that we will see each other again, in a place of peace and joy. 

~~~~~~~

* Lutherans on the whole may still give credit for brains.  I’m unfortunate in attending (when I do) a congregation where complementarianism is not a bad word, but “reproductive choice” and “same-sex marriage” are, oh, very bad ideas indeed. I know, I need to find one with realistic ideas and good music. Sadly, they seem to be mutually exclusive, at least so far. 

~~~~~~~

Also, I don’t mean to ignore the stories of illnesses and treatments and outcomes. Big Mama JB died of a cancer that could’ve & should've  been found in plenty of time to save her. For reasons that still tear at my heart, nope. I still find it unthinkable, 30 years on. 

I feel for each & every one of you and wish I could give you the hugs you need —or whatever it is that would help. ❤️

[Syriana]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Those of you who know, is this a normal time for results?  When my mom was diagnosed she was in surgery for a bowel obstruction and by the time they came out to tell my sisters surgery was over the surgeon knew it was cancer and there was already discussion of which oncologist he wanted her to see.  I'm assuming based on this some aren't as immediately apparent?

 

Cancer vs benign can often be determined very quickly (as with the 'quick look' very often done with brain tumours), but for breast cancer they're not only looking for cancer or not.  A 7-14 day wait for pathology is very normal, they're looking to grade the tumour, possible sentinal node biopsy and also receptor tests (estrogen receptor, human epidermal growth receptor (Her2) and progesterone receptor) and they take time.

Edit for comment on laser surgery:

They've chosen to go with a pretty new technique that has limited data published - the results from the phase 2 trial were only published in 2018 iirc so there's not much known unless I've missed something (I'll do a deeper dig when I get chance in case I'm out of date info wise).  That this is an option, does suggest that they consider the cancer to be early stage which is good.  It's a minimally invasive technique with good (relatively, given limited numbers) feedback in terms of patient happiness, a faster recovery than traditional lumpectomy and a better cosmetic outcome.

<heads off to do some digging>

Edited February 12, 2020 by Syriana