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PianoGal

Son of Hephzibah House founder speaks out on Dr. Phil

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DaisyD
10 minutes ago, Destiny said:


Stamping is a bridge too far right now. I’m sticking with polish and an accent nail for the moment. That’s some seriously pretty stuff though! I’m jealous of your collection.

I use gel polishes because I am also impatient. 60 seconds in the lamp is the only way I can not fuck them up. I started doing my own nails when I discovered the Naio Nails YouTube channel. I will never have her skills, but she inspires me to try. 

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Marmion
8 minutes ago, Destiny said:


I’m a fan of the Bugle. If you can find old episodes do it!
 

OK , here is one of the episodes he's appeared in , and I have seen so far .  

Spoiler

 

 

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Seahorse Wrangler

My other boy Tom

Spoiler

image.png.588ca887a553939e855020d3d1a14674.png

 

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feministxtian

Can I add Shemar Moore, Mark Harmon, and Scott Bakula to the list of featured male models? I'm having hormonal issues right now...and binge watching Star Trek Enterprise isn't helping. 

About she who shit on the carpet...I would say I'm probably one of the less formally educated folks here and even MY spelling and grammar isn't as bad as she who claims to have sheepskins. 

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church_of_dog
6 hours ago, CaricatureQualities said:

Anybody care for some Taika Waititi?

 

  Hide contents

image.png.bf152669e88731b1e015169aa4f0120a.png

 

 

 

I've never heard of most of these guys as I haven't been into tv or movies in recent decades, but... ...wow he is sure nice to look at! :my_cool:

5 hours ago, ignorantobserver said:

I don't really use nailpolish because I can't stand the smell. Even after it has dried, I can't stop myself from smelling my fingertips all the time. Maybe I haven't been buying the right quality.

I have no idea whether it's good quality or not but Sophi brand polish is nontoxic and doesn't smell.   sophinailpolish.com

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Shaquillle Oatmeal

Does anyone else wish the Williams son would write a tell all book?

Also, do we have any evidence that Hephzibah House is actually closed; since such a claim has been made?

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neuroticcat

I read the first five pages of the thread and am skipping ahead because...drama! 

I did want to say I was introduced to Love and Logic as a young parent. It doesn’t advocate spanking as I remember but it still has control of children as a goal...not respectful or empathetic. I bailed because a lot of the techniques felt manipulative. For instance saying : your bickering makes me too tired to hear your requests. I’m going to need you to do x so I can regain my energy. 
 

Anyway it didn’t feel very logical to me...just another way to get kids to behave. I’m not a fan.

 

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ignorantobserver
47 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

I did want to say I was introduced to Love and Logic as a young parent. It doesn’t advocate spanking as I remember but it still has control of children as a goal...not respectful or empathetic. I bailed because a lot of the techniques felt manipulative. For instance saying : your bickering makes me too tired to hear your requests. I’m going to need you to do x so I can regain my energy.

Anyway it didn’t feel very logical to me...just another way to get kids to behave. I’m not a fan.

Thank you ! This was precisely the impression I gained from reading the review of the book. It just sounds like parents inventing creative and sadistic punishments in a random and impredictable manner, and then pretending that those punishments are somehow "natural consequences" of pretty benign infractions. Arbitrarily refusing help and letting the children live in fear of accidentally doing something the despotic parents decide is worthy of "consequences".

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mango_fandango

Ah, the FJ Stud Muffin book... Hmm.... not sure who I’d add.

John Shrader, though, belongs in the “FJ Banish Them To A Remote Desert Island STAT” book. That’d be a fun reality show, actually. Ten fundie men on a desert island. For a contrast, ten fundie women on a desert island. 

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AmazonGrace
2 hours ago, ignorantobserver said:

Thank you ! This was precisely the impression I gained from reading the review of the book. It just sounds like parents inventing creative and sadistic punishments in a random and impredictable manner, and then pretending that those punishments are somehow "natural consequences" of pretty benign infractions. Arbitrarily refusing help and letting the children live in fear of accidentally doing something the despotic parents decide is worthy of "consequences".

And later on, if they're not extremely gaslighted, the children will get in touch with other people who were raised differently and realize that the parent was not in fact too tired to do x because of bickering, they were just unwilling  to do x, and dishonestly putting the responsibility for their unwillingness on the child. And hopefully they will also realize that if your child forgets to do something, it's never the logical consequence to give away a family pet. 

I am not familiar with Love and Logic beyond the links in this thread but it sounds like it gives the children an awful lot of guilt for parental feelings and reactions that are not the child's responsibility in the least. 

Logical consequences might be predictable but the only consistent factor here is that the parent behaves like a jerk and makes the children think it's their fault. 

 

Re: drunk posting, it was not a lie precisely, it was an impression that was created by events in this thread,  and an opportunity to save face. But of course one may fail to take that opportunity if one would  rather that we think this behavior is an example of what happens while sober. 

Spoiler

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2 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Ah, the FJ Stud Muffin book... Hmm.... not sure who I’d add.

John Shrader, though, belongs in the “FJ Banish Them To A Remote Desert Island STAT” book. That’d be a fun reality show, actually. Ten fundie men on a desert island. For a contrast, ten fundie women on a desert island. 

The Temptation Island! "This contestant showed a bit of defrauding skin while wading in the water trying to catch some fish. At the bonfire tonight, we will see them pray and read the Lamentations"

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ALM7

Let me come too!

I'll DJ.  Put on some 60's/70's classic rock, some 80's mix, 90's alt, and the 2000's, well it's a free for all, little bit of this, and a little bit of that, Lol.

And @HerNameIsBuffy, I won't forget Sweet and some Van Halen.

So we have ... 👐  :cupcake:   :cocktail: :music-listening: :obscene-smokingweed:  

It's a party!

 

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treehugger

Dr Laura from Aha! Parenting says this about Love and Logic:

https://www.ahaparenting.com/ask-the-doctor-1/love-logic-a-critique

Spoiler

Love and Logic was in the first wave of the anti-punishment books, more than twenty years ago. Their view was that instead of punishing kids, which backfires, parents should use logical consequences. This is also what Jane Nelsen, who wrote Positive Discipline, recommended at the time. Which makes sense, except in practice using consequences often ends up looking like punishment to the child. There's a whole article about using consequences in this way on this website: What's wrong with using Consequences to teach kids lessons?

Jane Nelsen, who I interviewed on my radio show, told me that she no longer recommends using consequences because of this problem. She has really developed the Positive Discipline approach over the years in a wonderful way. 

My impression -- and I have not done more than go to the website once and read the Love and Logic book, so this is just my opinion -- is that Love and Logic has not done this. They do use consequences in a way that seems to me to be punishment. For instance, the book gives an example where the kid is rude to the mom, so she sends him to his room. He refuses to go. So she doesn't spank him, but later he is not allowed to have dinner until he goes up the stairs to his room and back to the dinner table twenty times. 

On the good side, the mom did not lose her temper, hit, or yell. And the authors do say parents should be empathic as they give the consequences. But I think that's a bit like "I love you, too bad I have to punish you, I know that makes you mad but you brought it on yourself."

I would add that the book doesn't pay any attention to how parents can actually manage their emotions so I am betting that most parents who try their techniques still seem very angry to their children, and end up getting into power struggles.

Finally, the book seems to take the perspective that all kids will get away with whatever they can, not because they're bad but because they're kids. The authors don't evidence any curiosity about WHY kids do what they do. I personally think we need to understand WHY if we are to address the problem at the core. In other words, if the kid was rude to his mom, there's a reason -- he's hurting about something. Sure, I can send him to his room, or make him go up and down the stairs twenty times, but I won't get to the root cause and prevent it happening again.

Basically, it’s better than punitive parenting but falls short in understanding why kids do things and can often make consequences look like punishment.  There is also the reliance on negative experiences to teach lessons instead of positive parenting. 

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formergothardite
1 minute ago, treehugger said:

. So she doesn't spank him, but later he is not allowed to have dinner until he goes up the stairs to his room and back to the dinner table twenty times. 

That doesn't make any sense for any sort of a natural consequence. 

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

And hopefully they will also realize that if your child forgets to do something, it's never the logical consequence to give away a family pet. 

This shows that the creators of this program not only don't understand how to parent, but they also don't understand how to be a pet owner.

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treehugger
8 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

That doesn't make any sense for any sort of a natural consequence.

I find anytime an adult has to manufacture a natural consequence it doesn’t make sense.  

A natural consequence to me is “you were running around being extra silly and fell down and skinned your knee”, or “I won’t help you climb up the tree higher than you are able because you need to be able to get down on your own,” or “you didn’t want to eat your supper and now you are hungry”... You know actual results of actual actions. 

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AmazonGrace

"I disobeyed mom and now as a natural consequence she's angry and making up nonsensical tasks as a punishment for me. Logic dictates that if I disobey the adults will become irrational. " 

 

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JermajestyDuggar

When I was a kid, if we didn’t take the dog out when we were supposed to, the dog peed or pooped on the floor. And the natural consequence was that we had to clean it up. 

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Four is Enough

I'm remembering a time when Two was really pushing the envelope with "forgetting" things. In actuality, he was basically lazy.

Gym day? wore the wrong uniform, wanted it brought to school for him. Library day? "forgot" the book. Lunch? didn't want what he prepared the night before  , "forgot" it. (none of this was new to him; he was in third grade I had a schedule on the refrigerator, and basically mornings was me saying, You have band; you have library, you have gym, etc) I usually had them make sure that homework was done, library books were packed, instruments were with book bags, gym  uniforms were pulled out, lunches were made, the night before.

So one day, I got a note home that Two had not brought lunch to school, (we didn't have lunch service, all was brought from home) and the teacher had mobilized the students, who gave him parts of theirs. I wrote the teacher a note, asking her that if he did it again, to give him his milk and to let him go without.. just for the day.. and the next day, she Called Me to tell me that he'd forgotten it again, and had to ask others for parts of their lunches again.. and to please make sure he got lunch.. I explained to her that I was trying to teach him about the consequences of not preparing himself for his day... he was NINE. and to please not give him anything. (I picked the kids up at school, he wouldn't have starved for 2.5 hours, but..) 

She acted as if I were the most horrible parent. She wouldn't do it. 

I felt it was logical and reasonable. I still do. I would have been that way if *I* had forgotten my lunch as a child.. but now I'm wondering just how many people agree with me.

 

 

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feministxtian

Logical consequences...when #2 son was a little guy, he was running straight into the oven door. It was hot because well, mama was cooking something. First time I pulled him back and said "no baby, that's hot". Second time, same thing. Third time I let him touch the oven door. His eyes got HUGE and he said "HOT!!!". He never touched it again. 

Its not like he was burned or anything, his hands were on there for all of half a second if that long. There was no damage to his little hands. 

I've been all in favor of letting kids deal with the consequences of their actions including "you pissed your sister off and she got even...how about not pissing her off". #1 daughter fought with #1 son frequently. #1 son was the instigator. He'd be an obnoxious little shit to her and she'd get pissed. Not much has changed 30 years later. #2 son picked fights too...#1 daughter would ignore baby bro but #1 son wouldn't. Seems they all know how to push each others' buttons. 

You have NO idea how glad I am that I don't have to deal with that crap anymore...they're too old for me to referee. 

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Giraffe

@Four is Enough, that sounds like a great consequence. I’d be angry if the teacher kept coming up with lunch, too!

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HerNameIsBuffy
38 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

@Four is Enough, that sounds like a great consequence. I’d be angry if the teacher kept coming up with lunch, too!

I’m not a teacher, but I wouldn’t be able to let a kid go without lunch and I’d have done the same.  

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ignorantobserver
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I felt it was logical and reasonable. I still do. I would have been that way if *I* had forgotten my lunch as a child.. but now I'm wondering just how many people agree with me.

I don't think it's cruel to have a child go without food for two hours (and I have been an extremely forgetful child myself). The teacher wasn't wrong to be worried about a little one who seemingly didn't get anything to eat at home, but once you explained the situation, she should have stopped interfering.

Also : don't nine-year-olds frequently swap or share food ? If the teacher hadn't intervened, your Two probably would have asked one of his friends to share with him, and after a few days, the social pressure of having to give something back would have been a good incentive to remind him of his lunch. Children are not that helpless...

Edited by ignorantobserver

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Giraffe
6 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I’m not a teacher, but I wouldn’t be able to let a kid go without lunch and I’d have done the same.  

 

2 minutes ago, ignorantobserver said:

I don't think it's cruel to have a child go without food for two hours (and I have been an extremely forgetful child myself). The teacher wasn't wrong to be worried about a little one who seemingly didn't get anything to eat at home, but once you explained the situation, she should have stopped interfering.

I was looking at it through a “teaching consequences” perspective, but you’re right, it could be a very hard thing for a teacher to watch a kid be hungry, even just temporarily. 

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feministxtian

School consequences...I never bailed the kids out with school stuff after about 2nd-3rd grade. Got a phone call about #2 son when he was in 8th grade or so (middle school) about not doing homework. My response was "he knows the drill, if he fails, he fails". I was DONE fighting w/kids about school. Sometimes letting them deal with the consequences of their actions or inactions, especially in the tween-teen years works wonders. When they're little, well...sometimes you have to pick them up before they do something really stupid. However, my brats needed consequences for a lot of things...they are just as hard headed as their mama. 

**Y'all know I ADORE my kids, right? They're three fantastic human beings that I had the privilege of creating and birthing. The raising them part was the hard part...as adults they're amazing. 

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nelliebelle1197
9 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

School consequences...I never bailed the kids out with school stuff after about 2nd-3rd grade. Got a phone call about #2 son when he was in 8th grade or so (middle school) about not doing homework. My response was "he knows the drill, if he fails, he fails". I was DONE fighting w/kids about school. Sometimes letting them deal with the consequences of their actions or inactions, especially in the tween-teen years works wonders. When they're little, well...sometimes you have to pick them up before they do something really stupid. However, my brats needed consequences for a lot of things...they are just as hard headed as their mama. 

**Y'all know I ADORE my kids, right? They're three fantastic human beings that I had the privilege of creating and birthing. The raising them part was the hard part...as adults they're amazing. 

I firmly believe 13-14 is still too young for that. Failing in 8th grade does not mean much to a kid with worms to dig, bikes to ride and video games to play.

 

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feministxtian
1 minute ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I firmly believe 13-14 is still too young for that. Failing in 8th grade does not mean much to a kid with worms to dig, bikes to ride and video games to play.

 

This was an utter refusal to do ANY school work. I was like "fine, do 8th grade again, I'm done with this argument". My children's school careers were miserable for me. All three dropped out around 10th grade. By the time I got to #2 son, I was done fighting. Interestingly enough, one ex-drop out is finishing a Master's degree and two are working on undergrad degrees. One in business and one in engineering. All three are now A-B students, no fighting with them, they obsess over grades all by themselves. 

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