Son of Hephzibah House founder speaks out on Dr. Phil

[Lucinda]

20 minutes ago, Curious said:

Look lady, I just wasted a few hours of my day researching all this stuff for a post that was 3 months old and had no responses so you don't need to get attitude with me.  You didn't need to waste any of your time today if you had just let me do what I told you I was going to do last night.   This thread would still be dead.

I very plainly stated I was not clear about the licensing.  I was trying to give you a fair shake, but you don't care about that apparently.

Now that you have clarified it, I find it horrifying that you (general not you specifically) can be a therapist with no license.  Talk about an area being ripe for abuse.  We (the US) need to do better with mental health care!

You are right you didn't do anything to "us," but you wrote a book and you went on the freaking Dr. Phil Show, FFS.  People are going to talk about you and you should have known that before you went on the show.   If you didn't want attention from a wide range of people, you shouldn't have gone on his show.  

 

FFS!   I said YOU had valid claims and should have won if it had gone to court.  The filings are all public.  I read them because I was trying to make sure I was fair to you.   Calm yourself down and READ what is actually being said, not what you think is being said because you think I'm some kind of hater.   I had no clue this thread even existed until your email last night.   Everything I know about you comes from YOU directly (not a great impression, tbh) and my research today (gives a better impression, so maybe shut up now)

I just reread what I said and realized that it could be confusing which "her" I was talking about so I edited my post to clarify.

Thank you for clarifying 

[Curious]

1 minute ago, Lucinda said:

Two masters degrees from a university- what do you have since you all want to attack me bring it on!! 

Serious question, no snark at all.  If you have 2 masters (I'm guessing and MA and an MS) why wouldn't you go ahead and do the license?  Would that not give you more flexibility in what you could do?  Are there restrictions with licensing that don't allow "Christian" based counseling?

[Giraffe]

I don’t know if this is what Lucinda is referring to when she says “biblical counseling,” but here’s another link about it in case it is.

https://new.exchristian.net/2010/10/dangerous-world-of-biblical-counseling.html?m=1#.XtmU8-QiclQ

[Lucinda]

5 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

If she’s a “biblical counselor,” and not a counselor who believes she’s biblical, there is in my opinion (lest I get a sued for whatever she will think I can be sued for ?) a very harmful, victim-blaming teaching that is called “biblical counseling.” In my opinion and experience, it’s not a psychological based therapy, it’s one that uses bible verses to bible bash people who’ve come to them for help in their time of need. Also called “nouthetic counseling.” 
 

Eta: here’s a link to one Christian’s critique of it. http://www.heresthejoy.com/2017/09/heres-an-abuse-survivors-plea-about-nouthetic-biblical-counseling/

You have no idea what I do or how I counsel - don’t judge what you don’t know 

3 minutes ago, Curious said:

Serious question, no snark at all.  If you have 2 masters (I'm guessing and MA and an MS) why wouldn't you go ahead and do the license?  Would that not give you more flexibility in what you could do?  Are there restrictions with licensing that don't allow "Christian" based counseling?

If you must know - so the courts can’t use my clients counseling against them - 

[nelliebelle1197]

10 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Screw you! Understand that structure! I am fed up with the bs 

Two masters degrees from a university- what do you have since you all want to attack me bring it on!! 

You mean this university? https://www.calvary.edu/

You really don’t need to be throwing bible school credentials around here, sweetie. We are doctors, lawyers, PhDs, executives, researchers, students, nonprofit staff, professional  writers, college professors, social workers, mothers, scientists and all manner of good things, with lots of degrees from real schools, not penny ante bible colleges with a 46 percent graduation rate. Personally, I have four degrees, all from real nationally ranked colleges and universities. 

I am sorry, I cannot go on. I am laughing too hard at this silliness.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by nelliebelle1197

[JermajestyDuggar]

You know why some biblical counselors don’t get an actual state license? So they can practice “conversion therapy” without consequences. 

Just throwing that out there.

Edited June 5, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[Curious]

2 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

You have no idea what I do or how I counsel - don’t judge what you don’t know 

People are asking you so they can understand.  Instead of getting your back up and taking everything like a personal attack and just answer the questions in the way you would want people to know.

Lord Ham Mercury!  Not everything is mortal combat.

[Giraffe]

3 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

You have no idea what I do or how I counsel - don’t judge what you don’t know 

You’re exactly right; I don’t. It’s why I started with the word “if.”

[formergothardite]

10 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Why would I answer what you already know !! 
but okay here you go!

no 30 years ago society or myself saw spankings as abuse ! Now today 30 years later it is abuse!! 
 

What I'm trying to clarify is if you now acknowledge that 30 years ago spanking was abusive, even if you didn't see it that way? I'm asking if you agree that hitting children as always been abusive. 

 

[Lucinda]

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

What I'm trying to clarify is if you now acknowledge that 30 years ago spanking was abusive, even if you didn't see it that way? I'm asking if you agree that hitting children as always been abusive. 

 

Seriously?? Grow up we are in new times my spanking 30 years ago was not abuse ! My beatings were 

[formergothardite]

7 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

You have no idea what I do or how I counsel - don’t judge what you don’t know 

Would you be willing to share how you counsel? Biblical counseling, IME, tends to be heavy on the shaming and hell and go read the Bible,  but if that isn't what you do, why don't you share so we all actually know. 

I right now have a relative back with an abusive husband because of a biblical counselor. 

Just now, Lucinda said:

Seriously?? Grow up we are in new times my spanking 30 years ago was not abuse ! My beatings were 

No, hitting children has always been wrong. This isn't about you. This is about children being hit by adults. What makes it wrong now to hit children when 30 years okay apparently you think hitting children was just fine? If  you don't think hitting children was fine 30 years ago, then just say that. Say it wasn't okay to hit children 30 years ago. 

[Lucinda]

5 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Would you be willing to share how you counsel? Biblical counseling, IME, tends to be heavy on the shaming and hell and go read the Bible,  but if that isn't what you do, why don't you share so we all actually know. 

I right now have a relative back with an abusive husband because of a biblical counselor. 

No, hitting children has always been wrong. This isn't about you. This is about children being hit by adults. What makes it wrong now to hit children when 30 years okay apparently you think hitting children was just fine? If  you don't think hitting children was fine 30 years ago, then just say that. Say it wasn't okay to hit children 30 years ago. 

One I never quote the Bible in my counseling! I never shame or preach damnation. I do speak truth 

I am not going to argue spankings 30 years ago with you! 
I believe and practice and teach parents natural consequences- I don’t spank or hit children! 

18 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You know why some biblical counselors don’t get an actual state license? So they can practice “conversion therapy” without consequences. 

Just throwing that out there.

Lol- conversion therapy! Don’t practice that either !! Wow you guys really have no clue watch some of my videos!! 

15 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

What I'm trying to clarify is if you now acknowledge that 30 years ago spanking was abusive, even if you didn't see it that way? I'm asking if you agree that hitting children as always been abusive. 

 

No spankings done properly was not considered abuse in society or schools ! My spanking 30 years ago was not abuse!!! I do not condone hitting or beating children period! I practice and teach natural consequences and love and logic 

[Curious]

2 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

One I never quote the Bible in my counseling! I never shame or preach damnation. I do speak truth 

I am not going to argue spankings 30 years ago with you! 
I believe and practice and teach parents natural consequences- I don’t spank or hit children! 

If you don't do those things, what makes it biblical counseling vs counseling?   You may have missed my question about the license with the thread moving fast.  Here it is again.

26 minutes ago, Curious said:

Serious question, no snark at all.  If you have 2 masters (I'm guessing and MA and an MS) why wouldn't you go ahead and do the license?  Would that not give you more flexibility in what you could do?  Are there restrictions with licensing that don't allow "Christian" based counseling?

 

[Lucinda]

22 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You mean this university? https://www.calvary.edu/

You really don’t need to be throwing bible school credentials around here, sweetie. We are doctors, lawyers, PhDs, executives, researchers, students, nonprofit staff, professional  writers, college professors, social workers, mothers, scientists and all manner of good things, with lots of degrees from real schools, not penny ante bible colleges with a 46 percent graduation rate. Personally, I have four degrees, all from real nationally ranked colleges and universities. 

I am sorry, I cannot go on. I am laughing too hard at this silliness.

 

They are state accredited university!! So you can shove it up your .... 

25 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You mean this university? https://www.calvary.edu/

You really don’t need to be throwing bible school credentials around here, sweetie. We are doctors, lawyers, PhDs, executives, researchers, students, nonprofit staff, professional  writers, college professors, social workers, mothers, scientists and all manner of good things, with lots of degrees from real schools, not penny ante bible colleges with a 46 percent graduation rate. Personally, I have four degrees, all from real nationally ranked colleges and universities. 

I am sorry, I cannot go on. I am laughing too hard at this silliness.

 

Good for you!! I am proud of my hard work and you won’t shame me for all my hard work!! So bug off 

[anjulibai]

32 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

If you must know - so the courts can’t use my clients counseling against them - 

What? How?

[Lucinda]

1 minute ago, anjulibai said:

What? How?

Because I keep no records of our sessions to be held against them - with licensed counseling you have to keep notes of what is discussed in their counseling- I am biblical counselor because I use biblical principles in my counseling and my non profit is a Christian ministry 

[Marmion]

I believe that things would have gone much better here in this thread if Lucinda were to have expressed her concerns in a courteous , considerate manner , rather than coming across as a " Karen " .  

Spoiler

 

I don't think that anyone wants to unduly disparage Lucinda .  We were simply discussing a topic that was of newsworthy interest at the time .  And now we are feeling defensive due to being threatened with a potential law suit , which incidentally is something that to the best of my knowledge has never happened to any of us before now . Not by Steven Anderson , not by Gwen Shamblin Lara , not even by the Bible Methodists , whom had taken issue with what I had posted way back .  None of these people has ever threatened to sue us .  So it has come as a sudden shock to us that anyone would react so strongly to our well meaning words of concerned , critical commentary , regarding what we've believed to be religious abuse .  I know that speaking as to myself at least , I have been intending to come from a place of love , more so than simple scorn .  Sorry if anyone has felt personally attacked by me , or anyone else here . We just don't want any more people , especially dependent children , to continue to be harmed by authoritarian high control groups , such as those we comment on , and label " fundie" . 

[anjulibai]

Just now, Lucinda said:

Because I keep no records of our sessions to be held against them - with licensed counseling you have to keep notes of what is discussed in their counseling- I am biblical counselor because I use biblical principles in my counseling and my non profit is a Christian ministry 

This still doesn't make sense. How would anyone use counseling against them?

[Marmion]

1 minute ago, Lucinda said:

Because I keep no records of our sessions to be held against them - with licensed counseling you have to keep notes of what is discussed in their counseling- I am biblical counselor because I use biblical principles in my counseling and my non profit is a Christian ministry 

But conveniently , and conversely ,the lack of records means it can't be held against you either . Just saying . 

[Curious]

37 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

If you must know - so the courts can’t use my clients counseling against them - 

Sorry @Lucinda I missed your response because it merged while I was typing another post.    I don't understand what that means.  How can they use counseling against your clients, but not biblical counseling?  or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

[Lucinda]

Just now, Curious said:

Sorry @Lucinda I missed your

1 minute ago, Marmion said:

But conveniently , and conversely ,the lack of records means it can't be held against you either . Just saying . 

response because it merged while I was typing another post.    I don't understand what that means.  How can they use counseling against your clients, but not biblical counseling?  or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

No you don’t know the clients I deal with - they would use their counseling against them because the system is corrupt with what I deal with- 

I am not worried about myself I am covered legally- 

[Curious]

4 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Because I keep no records of our sessions to be held against them - with licensed counseling you have to keep notes of what is discussed in their counseling- I am biblical counselor because I use biblical principles in my counseling and my non profit is a Christian ministry 

By biblical principles do you mean 12 steps or something?  It seems like it would be hard to counsel someone without keeping any kind of notes, especially if you have more than 1 client at a time, which presumably you would.

 

[Lucinda]

4 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

This still doesn't make sense. How would anyone use counseling against them?

You clearly don’t know anything about cps and what they do!! 

[anjulibai]

Just now, Lucinda said:

You clearly don’t know anything about cps and what they do!! 

Okay....

Then what do they do? And what sort of things are you counseling about that would make cps do what they do? 

[formergothardite]

18 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

My spanking 30 years ago was not abuse!!!

But 30 years ago when those adults hit you, it was abusive. It doesn't matter how hard they hit you, they were still adults hitting a child they were supposed to be caring for.  I hope that one day you can look back and realize that even though hitting was the norm, it was always bad. Like how enslaving people was once normal, but it was still always wrong. Just because lots of people accept behavior doesn't make it not abusive or bad. My heart breaks for you because no child deserves to be hit. 

That is something my therapist has helped me with. I wasn't beaten, but my parents did hit us, and even though it was a long, long time ago and they didn't know any better, it was still abusive behavior.