Seewalds 43: Pants may Have Been Worn Or Not

[Giraffe]

I knew a couple who eloped five months into their relationship so they could have “guilt-free” sex. Waited a year to tell their families. They’re still married many years later but when I knew them they struck me as a couple who probably wouldn’t have married each other if they’d allowed themselves to have pre-marital sex. It’s sad to think how many fundies have married just to have sex only for their marriage to be a big regret down the road. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Giraffe
Pressed send too soon

[WarriorJane]

5 hours ago, singsingsing said:

It looks more like leggings under a long tunic to me.

Aww...you burst my bubble! ?

[marmalade]

16 hours ago, WarriorJane said:

I don't know if this had already been posted somewhere else,  but pants were DEFINITELY worn!  By Jessa.  On Say Yes to the Dress.  She appeared on the show with Ben's sister, Jessica.   I think she's the one who got married last year?  If so,  Jessa's been wearing pants for awhile now.  I don't know how to post the link, but it's on People.com. 

Leggings. You can see the print dress. The angle is just weird.

[Wifey4Lifey]

On 2/24/2020 at 5:56 PM, ItsAllOver said:

As someone who grew up in a moderate-to-somewhat-conservative Christian environment*, I would actually like to point out to the fundie crowd that it's completely possible to save sex for marriage AND wait to get married until you've made a few responsible decisions. I've known plenty of couples who dated (properly dated) for years or were even engaged for years but waited until they had finished college and found jobs to actually tie the knot, despite choosing to wait for their wedding night. Of course, I've known people who made completely different decisions and are perfectly happy with their choices too. I'm just always surprised by how little self-control fundies credit themselves with for people who think their strength comes from God. If you've really made a commitment to something, why do you need a chaperone or to avoid any physical affection with your sweetheart? And why is fornication the sin above all other sins? Is it just the one that most embarrasses them?

*pants-wearing, women-working, birth control allowed, just living fairly normal lives in comparison with the surrounding populace.

Ps. I'm so sorry I missed the Christmas baby conversation. I'm one too, and I once overheard someone in the card aisle at Wal-Mart casually saying they were getting one card for both an acquaintance's birthday and Christmas, stopped them, and set them straight on that score. I don't really celebrate by birthday, but my parents never let it be lumped in with Christmas (which I'm obsessed with) or go unnoticed. I think having three other Christmas babies in the family helped promote that attitude.

Regarding the bolded: I'm always reminded of my very observant Catholic relative who actually lived with her now husband before marriage, but still managed to wait until marriage for sex. It made sense for them financially to split a two bedroom apartment instead of each renting their own one bedroom, but it was important to them to save sex for marriage, so they did!

I generally believe that if something is truly important to a person, they'll find a way to do it, even if it's difficult. But waiting is hard and fundies are lazy, so they take the quick and easy route and jump straight to marriage.

[singsingsing]

Seriously! You know, oftentimes before bed I’m super tired and really don’t feel like brushing my teeth, but I always do because dental hygiene is important to me. Okay, I know that’s not really comparable to resisting sexual urges, but you get the point.

i also feel like fundies have never adequately explained why sex before marriage is treated like THE worst possible sin. I can totally understand it being that way in the past when sex outside of marriage was far more likely to have potentially devastating consequences, but it’s not like that anymore. I know they believe it should be (which is sick), but it’s not. Their dogma doesn’t align with reality. Well, what else is new, I guess.

This probably doesn’t apply so much to fundies, but a lot of zealous conservative Christians practically worship C.S. Lewis, yet seem to forget that he was of the opinion that sexual sin was the **least bad** sin. (The worst was pride, btw. Go figure.)

[WarriorJane]

It all goes back to original sin, the fall of man, etc.  Funny though that the bible literalists interpret sex to be such a sin rather than "eating apples."

[Grace]

Jessa posted the photos of all the sisters shopping at Target and Abbie is in the background holding a bra ? I'm sure the other women were mortified by this and Jessa was probably just ?‍♀️ because she seems to not care about some things the others are shy about...like the "he's filling his pants" commentary that shocked the sisters on that baby photoshoot.

 

Then she had this response to someone in the comment section.  I hate her terrible personal views but I do enjoy when she smarts off ?

[Jasmar]

She’s never heard of a breast pump? I get that she’s being snarky, but in this instance it just reinforces the female-subordination BS the OP was alluding to.

[Sabine]

1 hour ago, Jasmar said:

She’s never heard of a breast pump? I get that she’s being snarky, but in this instance it just reinforces the female-subordination BS the OP was alluding to.

That was my first thought, Formula, breast pump and depending the age of the little one maybe even already a bit of solid baby food to get the child through three lunch hours for mum. 

[Scrappinmac]

2 minutes ago, Sabine said:

That was my first thought, Formula, breast pump and depending the age of the little one maybe even already a bit of solid baby food to get the child through three lunch hours for mum. 

True, but if it's an all-day affair like she said, pumping might not be the answer. When I was nursing my babies, I'd leak like crazy if I didn't feed on time (I only pumped early in the morning). If I went several hours without nursing them, I 'd be very uncomfortable and wet. No way to spend a day out shopping and eating. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

When you are relying on EBF for birth control you don't pump, or formula feed, even for an afternoon. Or at least this is what I've been told, that it is most effective if the baby physically latches on to the breast.

[Sabine]

11 minutes ago, Scrappinmac said:

True, but if it's an all-day affair like she said, pumping might not be the answer. When I was nursing my babies, I'd leak like crazy if I didn't feed on time (I only pumped early in the morning). If I went several hours without nursing them, I 'd be very uncomfortable and wet. No way to spend a day out shopping and eating. 

How old is the child now? Three to four month - older? Then yes, pumping and formula is an option, million/billion of working women do it, and their husbands, nannies, creches all manage to care for children without starving them. Nah, that was a dumb answer from a young women who literally believes that this is what she is made for, breastfeeding, making babies and sandwiches and pleasing hubby and daddy (for income at least). She is lucky that she 'earns' her keep on Telly, or else she would be in an office, retail shop, cafe/restaurant earning her keep and she would know that others can feed her baby for one day, or something like 6 hours for a nice lunch and a bit of a shop.

[singsingsing]

Nope, Jessa can have this one. No way am I going to sit here and judge them for this. I’ve never had a baby, but my understanding is that pumping can be time consuming, unpleasant, even painful, and that pumping vs. breastfeeding really comes down to personal choice.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

When you are relying on EBF for birth control you don't pump, or formula feed, even for an afternoon. Or at least this is what I've been told, that it is most effective if the baby physically latches on to the breast.

But these folks have never mentioned using any form of BC or method to avoid or delay a conception, not even NFP. 

[viii]

I’m really surprised people are in here judging jessa for not pumping or using formula. It’s really nobody’s business how she feeds her baby. 

[Grace]

45 minutes ago, viii said:

I’m really surprised people are in here judging jessa for not pumping or using formula. It’s really nobody’s business how she feeds her baby. 

For real. Some people don't respond to pumps. Even if you do pump who wants to haul one out with you and find a place to pump while you're shopping? Some babies never will take a bottle. I have a friend who would have loved to pump and leave her kid for more than two hours and that child never took a bottle a single time in it's entire life. And Abbie's baby is still teeny. I wouldn't have left mine all day at that size. 

 

Nope. She's obnoxious in many ways but this response was totally valid in my opinion.

[janey]

It is so much easier to bring a breastfed baby along than deal with pumping. My babes were my sidekicks unless I was going to a 21+ environment. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

As a working EPing mom (by necessity, not by choice), I can’t snark on Jessa for not pumping.  Pumping is not easy, especially for a mom and baby who aren’t used to it. It’s not simply ‘just pump a bottle before you go’.

[princessmahina]

Unless you have a wearable pump like an Elvie, Willow, or Freemie, you’re going to have to take pump breaks during the day. And who wants those big bottles strapped to their breasts at Panera? Not everywhere has a pumping room. As an EBF mother, it is SO much easier to take my baby with me and nurse him while I shop or eat instead of trying to juggle bottles, a pump, a cooler, ice packs, a pumping location, etc. 

 

this is 100% not something to snark on. 

[Intothewind]

My niece took one bottle, once, from me when my sister-in-law and brother had an emergency and I was babysitting. Niece was about 3 months at that time, and still exclusively breastfeeding. I was crying by the time she managed to have a few ounces, and so was her older brother (because his baby was so sad). 

[Sabine]

i am gonna clarify my comment lest people think i 'judge' Jessa for breastfeeding. I don't . Personally i don't care at all how parents feed their babies, breast, pump, formula what ever the baby will have is what baby will get. 

She did not say, i love breast feeding, i love to lug my baby with me where ever i go, and such. And the poster to her did simply say why can't the husbands and fathers keep an eye on the kids so that the ladies can have a ladies day. And yeah, sorry Jessa, but the blokes in your family need to leave the 14 century and join the 21st.  So yeah, why can't they? A good snarky answer would have been that i have my child with my because i want to take my child with me. I have quite a few friends where the children go everywhere, and gasp Daddy is able to change a diaper like a pro and handle the bottle. 

But she can't say that, cause at the end of the day, this Ladies lunch is filmed and the grown ups in this family are boring as chicken without seasoning, and thus the need to have the babies ready to be shoved in the camera as the only thing worth about watching them. So yeah, Jessa, you get to lug your baby around not because your husband could not manage for a six hour lunch / shop extravaganza but because there is no reason to have you or any of the 'sisters' on telly without your babies. After all you are in a fertility cult and your babies are your meal ticket.   

[bal maiden]

8 hours ago, Sabine said:

I have quite a few friends where the children go everywhere, and gasp Daddy is able to change a diaper like a pro and handle the bottle. 

 

Gasp your anecdata does not prove your point because not all babies and parents are the same gasp

 

 

[lizzybee]

Pumping is hard, a lot of gear is necessary, and everything needs to be sanitary. You also need to find a good place to do so. 10/10 bringing a nursing baby is easier if that’s something you’re able and willing to do. 

[neuroticcat]

Agree. Pumping for the odd afternoon out is often more if a hassle. I always ended up engorged and fighting mastitis too...

[AprilQuilt]

21 hours ago, Sabine said:

How old is the child now? Three to four month - older? Then yes, pumping and formula is an option, million/billion of working women do it, and their husbands, nannies, creches all manage to care for children without starving them. Nah, that was a dumb answer from a young women who literally believes that this is what she is made for, breastfeeding, making babies and sandwiches and pleasing hubby and daddy (for income at least). She is lucky that she 'earns' her keep on Telly, or else she would be in an office, retail shop, cafe/restaurant earning her keep and she would know that others can feed her baby for one day, or something like 6 hours for a nice lunch and a bit of a shop.

So because OTHER people are obliged or choose to find other ways to feed their babies, Jessa must do that too? Sorry, that makes no sense. Everybody should get to choose.

I've said this before, but my baby would not/does not take a bottle, and I'm lucky that the job I do means I could be with her 24/7 while she was EBF. If that wasn't the case I'd have had to figure it out, but honestly I think a lot of parenting is choosing your battles. I didn't have to go through the stress of finding another way to get my tiny baby fed, so I didn't do it, because it wasn't too much of a hardship for me and my baby was happy and content. (Ironically I had great success with pumping and donated a lot of my frozen stash to other babies since my own refused point-blank to drink it once it had left the source.)

I can't fault Jessa or anyone who chooses or is obliged to keep their baby with them 24/7. I know a lot of 'worldly' women who do that same thing. As a season of life it's not really that long and in some ways it's pretty special.