Seewalds 43: Pants may Have Been Worn Or Not

[SassyPants]

7 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I don't doubt Michelle & JB started out as caring affectionate parents, until they hit overload & I'm guessing it was the 2 year span where, Josiah, Joy Anna, Jeremiah & Jedediah were born.  Michelle had 4 kids in a 27 month span, FOUR KIDS IN TWENTY SEVEN (27) MONTHS. Not to mention she had 7 older kids on top of that. 

I only had 2 kids in 27 months, and from Feb of 2000 until about August of 2003 it is all a blur. I was a SAHM to TWO children, with a very involved husband, who never failed to wash a dish, change a diaper, or help with laundry, still those 3 1/2 years were a whirl wind, all of us here with more than 1 kid knows what I'm talking about.

I don’t remember the 90s at all...2 small kids, a 3-4 day/week job and a husband with a stressful corporate job-

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I don’t remember the 90s at all...2 small kids, a 3-4 day/week job and a husband with a stressful corporate job-

To this day I say my job as a ward clerk at a local hospital that I worked at every weekend from the time #2 was 2 until she was 5 made my husband realize what i did everyday. I only worked weekends, meaning he had the kids all weekend while i worked, because of this he NEVER EVER again asked me what I did all day.  If he came home and the house looked like a bomb went off. He knew, It helped our marriage immensely, because he was forced to do, my job 2 days a week, I was a SAHM for nearly 9 years. He even said to me more than once, he'd rather work all day than have to be home all day with the kids. He knew how hard it was to deal with 2 kids and some days he wasn't coming home to a clean house and dinner on the table.  I always give a tip of my hat to SAHM, you don't get the accolades you deserve. I also give a nod to working moms, I don't know how you do it, I stayed home and it was hard. Anyway you look at it momming is hard weather you are getting paid for your day or not, you are doing more work than anyone else out there. 

[CaricatureQualities]

So Jessa's tribute to Michelle made me think about some of the stories I've read about people who tried to get through the IBLP curriculum and upstanding life for show. A large part of the lifestyle seemed to be shame and fear of not being good enough...fear and shame of "not having the right response" 24/7. The Wisdom booklets, the curriculum and the whole lifestyle are maintained by a sense of " everyone else is doing great and giving great testimony about all of this...if I can't keep up there is something wrong with me!' even though  it is set up for most to fail at! From what I can tell it is a system designed for people (women and their kids) to fail at so they can feel unworthy but is sustained by the lies of the participants saying "yes all this works fabulously for me and my family!!!" and if you can't measure up...well you're not really trying or listening to Gothard  God.

So when Jessa says oh my mom never let fatigue keep her down while constantly pregnant with growing numbers of kids...it sounds to me like shame on the people who opt out of that fuckfest of sleep deprivation. God will give you the energy for that season of life! 

[SassyPants]

8 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

To this day I say my job as a ward clerk at a local hospital that I worked at every weekend from the time #2 was 2 until she was 5 made my husband realize what i did everyday. I only worked weekends, meaning he had the kids all weekend while i worked, because of this he NEVER EVER again asked me what I did all day.  If he came home and the house looked like a bomb went off. He knew, It helped our marriage immensely, because he was forced to do, my job 2 days a week, I was a SAHM for nearly 9 years. He even said to me more than once, he'd rather work all day than have to be home all day with the kids. He knew how hard it was to deal with 2 kids and some days he wasn't coming home to a clean house and dinner on the table.  I always give a tip of my hat to SAHM, you don't get the accolades you deserve. I also give a nod to working moms, I don't know how you do it, I stayed home and it was hard. Anyway you look at it momming is hard weather you are getting paid for your day or not, you are doing more work than anyone else out there. 

Yep, I worked in ICUs for 35 years, which included many weekends, every other for about 20 years. He knew....

[BernRul]

 Jessa's caring, dedicated mother role will only last when she has a manageable amount of children. Three kids is a handful, but a handful that most families can handle. If she tries to fill Michelle's shoes by having more kids, she's going to give them less time and attention.

Jessa really seems to enjoy being an involved mother. I wonder if she has ever considered that when thinking about future family planning.

[Idlewild]

32 minutes ago, BernRul said:

 Jessa's caring, dedicated mother role will only last when she has a manageable amount of children. Three kids is a handful, but a handful that most families can handle. If she tries to fill Michelle's shoes by having more kids, she's going to give them less time and attention.

Jessa really seems to enjoy being an involved mother. I wonder if she has ever considered that when thinking about future family planning.

And of course she doesn’t have financial worries and whatever Ben’s educational or employment commitments ( great mysteries of our time) they allow him to be largely present and free to travel with her or stay with the boys while she takes Ivy on a trip or outing.  That makes life a lot more comfortable than most couples their age with 3 children. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

She also has her family very close by to socialize with and to let her children burn off energy with. I do think Jessa is very much a homebody, and her mothering experience would be drastically different if she didn't have them nearby. 

[Lizzybet]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:26 AM, clueliss said:

Burger King has tater tots?  

No, they have little hash brown things, smallish patties?

[TheRadleyPorch]

The thing is, I actually think this IS heartfelt. I don't think Jessa's lying to promote her brand, I think what's going on is much more subtle than that. I think Jessa really does feel that all of this is true, and I believe that Michelle COULD be loads of fun, and patient and warm and loving. The thing is, kids need that warmth and love and attention consistently, not just from time to time, and Michelle had way too many kids to ever be a consistently loving, attentive parent and not outsource her parenting to her daughters. I think all of Michelle's kids just absolutely craved her and felt like the sun shone only for them when they had her attention for brief periods, and then when they inevitably lost it again just felt desperate to get it back. It's honestly heartbreaking to think about. I remember one episode of Counting On when Michelle surprise visits Jinger and Laredo and Jinger just bursts into tears and runs to her when she sees her. And I just thought--that's what insecure/anxious attachment from inconsistent love and attention looks like! I love my mom loads but I can't imagine bursting into tears at a surprise visit from her. I think it's very unlikely that Michelle's failure as a parent stems from her just being cold/angry, but the ways she did fail can be just as damaging, and sometimes much more difficult to make sense of and heal from as an adult. I think Jessa is really struggling with this, whether she is aware of it or not (and I tend to think she is very much not--yet.) There's still a little girl--or even a teenage girl--in there desperate for Michelle's love and attention. Time will tell if she will be able to do the hard work of getting honest with herself about her family and past.

[Bad Wolf]

I lived 6,000 miles away from my parents, so if my mother had ever surprised me with a visit, I would probably have cried. We did surprise them a couple of times, and it was wonderful. They've been gone 24 years now, but @TheRadleyPorch, it made me think how much a surprise visit would mean. But that's just me.

[Vivi_music]

51 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I lived 6,000 miles away from my parents, so if my mother had ever surprised me with a visit, I would probably have cried. We did surprise them a couple of times, and it was wonderful. They've been gone 24 years now, but @TheRadleyPorch, it made me think how much a surprise visit would mean. But that's just me.

The year I lived in France, my parents, my brother and SIL ''surprised me'' at work. I knew they were arriving that day, but I didn't know they'd visit me at the museum during my day. I thought I'd see them after my shift. I was there welcoming visitors in my little tour guide uniform and when I saw my Mom, I cried (it was kind of embarassing). I had not seen them in almost 4 months.

We aren't a super-sized family with tons of kids, I just think I'm close to my mom and our bond is super strong. But that's the thing, I know that my mom is close to all her kids (we are four) and I know we are thight knit as a family unit yes, but she is also close with each of my siblings as individuals too. I don't think that was ever the case with Michelle and her children. So I agree that in Jinger situation we saw on CO, it isn't the proof of a secure attachment.

[nst]

and we must remember Jessa has a completely different temperament than her mother. 

Jessa maybe trying to emulate her  mother, but she can never BE her mother. 

We are not our mothers persay. 

she will be a different one that she can appreciate because Jessa has a different yet same history 

omg did i just dive back in here....:) and defend Jessa 

oh dear - 

[SweetLaurel]

9 minutes ago, nst said:

essa maybe trying to emulate her  mother, but she can never BE her mother. 

Of course she isn't - Michelle went to school.  She dated.  She was a cheerleader and wore a bikini - Jessa wore frumpers and had TSOTDRT  and her mother had a meltdown when Jessa and Ben held hands during a prayer at a table with both sets of their parents there.    Michelle got married and worked a few years before having a baby.   Jessa got married and the only job she ever had was realty tv 'star'.   Michelle raised her own kids, till she literally couldn't anymore - had the meltdown and got help and started pawning them off to sister moms.   Jessa has always had extended family around to pawn kids off onto if she needs.   Very different  - and we all remember things either much better or much worse in the past than they were.   Memories are funny things.   

 

[nst]

25 minutes ago, SweetLaurel said:

Of course she isn't - Michelle went to school.  She dated.  She was a cheerleader and wore a bikini - Jessa wore frumpers and had TSOTDRT  and her mother had a meltdown when Jessa and Ben held hands during a prayer at a table with both sets of their parents there.    Michelle got married and worked a few years before having a baby.   Jessa got married and the only job she ever had was realty tv 'star'.   Michelle raised her own kids, till she literally couldn't anymore - had the meltdown and got help and started pawning them off to sister moms.   Jessa has always had extended family around to pawn kids off onto if she needs.   Very different  - and we all remember things either much better or much worse in the past than they were.   Memories are funny things.   

 

my point being that Jessa is not michelle even though Jessa thinks she is based on the kids she wants to have. 

[patsymae]

On 4/8/2020 at 3:49 AM, AmericanRose said:

It's not even anywhere close to Father's Day.

Or Mother's day. The last restaurant I worked in told us if you don't come in on Mother's Day don't ever come back.

[Idlewild]

Jessa is doing a Q&A session with JB & Michelle for the Big Sandy video conference. It seems she is the heir apparent to the Duggar ‘ministry’. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

Jessa is doing a Q&A session with JB & Michelle for the Big Sandy video conference. It seems she is the heir apparent to the Duggar ‘ministry’. 

Not surprising. She’s much better in front of the camera than her brothers. Jinger lives in California. Jana is single. Joy is a Forsyth now. And Jill seems to have a strained relationship. So it’s left to Jessa. She’s the best in front of the camera anyway.

Edited April 27, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar

[medimus]

Spurgeon has a ridiculous hat on in the newest video it says something  like Love god, hate sin ?

[Vivi_music]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Not surprising. She’s much better in front of the camera than her brothers. Jinger lives in California. Jana is single. Joy is a Forsyth now. And Jill seems to have a strained relationship. So it’s left to Jessa. She’s the best in front of the camera anyway.

I actually agree with with 100%. Jessa for the moment is the best spokesperson for the brand. Ultimately, I believe she wants that role in the family and probably enjoys it. Earlier in the thread, we were discussing how Jessa is the most comfortable with the QF lifestyle for now, out of the married daughters.

I think not choosing Joy is also probably because she doesn't want too. She never came across to me as super fond of you know... speaking publicly, having to be eloquent, etc. (which isn't a dish a Joy, not everyone wants to be their family's PR firm and that is fine). And like you said, if we consider the married boys: Josh is out of the picture of course. Joseph and John-David don't seem to enjoy being too public either. Josiah? I dunno. Jessa certainly has more charisma than him, which makes her a better poster child.

JB and Michelle must be so proud now that they were able to properly brainwash their most headstrong daughter. ?

[haroldtheyrefundies]

(tw: insect/sexual abuse towards a minor) I listen to this one podcast called One Step by youtuber Ingrid Nilsen. One of the most recent episodes is a interview with the editor of chief of CosmoGirl Atoosa Rubenstein. Atoosa talked about how she was home alone for most of her childhood. She also opened up about the fact that she was sexually abused by a cousin for years. She talked about how her relationship with her mom has affected her and how her abuse has affected her romantic relationships. Atoosa said that her main goal in life has been to get attention from her mother. She said that if she had a better relationship with her mom than maybe the abuse would have stopped earlier or maybe wouldn't have happened at all. I found this interview super interesting because I felt like I got an insight into what the Duggar girls might be dealing with. They are probably aren't as attune to their feelings as Atoosa is (but I'm sure Jill is working on that in therapy) but they are probably dealing with a lot of childhood trauma without actually knowing it or recognizing it. They're just dealing it with the same tools they were given by their parents and their cult and at some point they are going to realize that these aren't the tools they need to fix their problems. 

[Glasgowghirl]

Jessa is definitely the best one to choose for the speaking, she appears happy with her life has three adorable children and has charisma and is able to promote herself. A few years back Josh would have been the one but obviously not now. 

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, Vivi_music said:

I actually agree with with 100%. Jessa for the moment is the best spokesperson for the brand. Ultimately, I believe she wants that role in the family and probably enjoys it. Earlier in the thread, we were discussing how Jessa is the most comfortable with the QF lifestyle for now, out of the married daughters.

I think not choosing Joy is also probably because she doesn't want too. She never came across to me as super fond of you know... speaking publicly, having to be eloquent, etc. (which isn't a dish a Joy, not everyone wants to be their family's PR firm and that is fine). And like you said, if we consider the married boys: Josh is out of the picture of course. Joseph and John-David don't seem to enjoy being too public either. Josiah? I dunno. Jessa certainly has more charisma than him, which makes her a better poster child.

JB and Michelle must be so proud now that they were able to properly brainwash their most headstrong daughter. ?

Josiah had charisma and character until they “alerted” it out of him. So sad. I feel that kid had potential. 
edit to add all  kids do. Just talking Josiah here atm.  

Edited April 28, 2020 by AussieKrissy

[Bazinga]

For those with curious minds, I ended up listening to this while I was making dinner. Nothing new at all. Maybe the only tidbit of information they gave that might be interesting is they said all of their older children questioned their faith in their teen years, with one child actually questioning a little later around 20. No names or hints. It was basically just a talking point saying that if a child professes his/her faith at a young age, doesn't mean they will keep it in later years. I guess I only found it interesting is that they said all of their older children struggled at one point. So there ya go. A whole lotta nothing.

And yes Jessa was very much on brand. And a whole lotta ass kissing towards her parents. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

So Boobchelle, were your children actually questioning their faith, or simply the Duggar way of life?

Since they deliberately shield their children from differing worldviews, I’d wager it was more of the latter...

Edited April 28, 2020 by Snarkasarus Rex
Wordz r hard

[marmalade]

Jessa said that she was saved at age 12. She apparently identified with a bible verse, which she rattled off, but I didn't catch. She did not talk about her crisis of faith.