Seewalds 43: Pants may Have Been Worn Or Not

[Idlewild]

Jessa is defensive of the brand- it pays her bills. 

[Glasgowghirl]

20 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

Agree. It's bizarre. 

 

It is but still not even close bizarre compared to what other shit you see on youtube people seem to think the most mundane of shit is interesting. I suppose fans of them may want to see that video but I certainly don't. 

Jana's jewellery box story always pissed me off Jim Bob and Michelle instead of dealing with their child who had been misbehaving they made the good child give away something precious to the child who was misbehaving, I blame Jim Bob and Michelle for that not Jessa she was a young child and I wonder how she felt about it when Jana brought it up years later and was emotional about it. 

[TheRadleyPorch]

The only optimistic read I can make of the video is that Jessa is in the doubling down phase that often comes before real change (and often lasts years). I think often when people are starting to sense that there may be something not quite right about what they were taught/how they were raised, they go into defense mode and (hopefully) temporarily become even more entrenched as a way of protecting themselves from the excruciating pain of having to change and admit some really hard things about their families, beliefs, or pasts. Of course it's also possible that Jessa has zero inner turmoil and is just happily supporting her brand.

[Glasgowghirl]

9 hours ago, TheRadleyPorch said:

The only optimistic read I can make of the video is that Jessa is in the doubling down phase that often comes before real change (and often lasts years). I think often when people are starting to sense that there may be something not quite right about what they were taught/how they were raised, they go into defense mode and (hopefully) temporarily become even more entrenched as a way of protecting themselves from the excruciating pain of having to change and admit some really hard things about their families, beliefs, or pasts. Of course it's also possible that Jessa has zero inner turmoil and is just happily supporting her brand.

I can see Jessa going either way, Jill doubled down at first and it took time for her gradually change. I think once the show is over we will see if she starts changing drastically or not. She likes things the way they are just now because they are getting money and a house from Jim Bob and she isn’t struggling the way the family did at times in the early day's. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I think the outcomes of Jill and Jessa are very swayed by headships. If Derrick had kept in line, he and Jill might still have been on the show. Then came dancing and public school. If Ben put his foot down and said I no longer want my family on tv, I think we would see changes in Jessa. Especially if they moved out of state and Jessa had to start raising a family without her families support. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Pecansforeveryone
Add a word

[SassyPants]

23 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

Jessa has ALWAYS been the one to defend her families lifestyle and beliefs. She was always the emotionally strong and snobby sister. If she wasn't a Christian she would probably be a "flip the birdie" chick. Even Michelle admitted she was a strong willed child. Well in my family it's called hard headed. And less not forget the sad story about Jana's jewelry box.

I remember one episode when the older girls, JB and Michelle were talking about guys wanting to get to know the girls, and young Jessa maybe @ 14? blurting  out that all the guys were “ weirdos”. I think Michelle did reprimand her. Honey, those guys,  and for that fact your husbands, would be considered weirdos by many peoples’ standards because your family was weird! Weird attracts weird. 

[Tangy Bee]

34 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I remember one episode when the older girls, JB and Michelle were talking about guys wanting to get to know the girls, and young Jessa maybe @ 14? blurting  out that all the guys were “ weirdos”. I think Michelle did reprimand her. Honey, those guys,  and for that fact your husbands, would be considered weirdos by many peoples’ standards because your family was weird! Weird attracts weird. 

Oh yeah I remember that episode. Thought it was Jinger that said it. But they both look so much alike to me.

[Chewing Gum]

1 hour ago, Tangy Bee said:

Oh yeah I remember that episode. Thought it was Jinger that said it. But they both look so much alike to me.

It was Jinger, including rolling her eyes.

[HermioneSparrow]

26 minutes ago, Chewing Gum said:

It was Jinger, including rolling her eyes.

I'm pretty sure it was Jessa.

[FreeTheScapegoats]

4 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

If Ben put his foot down and said I no longer want my family on tv, I think we would see changes in Jessa. Especially if they moved out of state and Jessa had to start raising a family without her families support. 

The question is whether or not Jessa would accept that or she’d eventually decide they’re unequally yoked and divorce. Jill was the perfect fundie, which is why she could follow her headship into questioning Jim Bob. Jessa, on the other hand, is the kind that either breaks free or upholds the cult. Had she been made into the scapegoat, she would be writing the preface to the tenth anniversary edition of her tell-all. However, Jim Bob and Michelle did their indoctrination right with her. She got Jana’s jewelry box, after all- a benefit in the guise of guilt. And that’s a good metaphor of her life. She lives in fear of the wrath of God and her father, who could kick her and her family to the curb if she dare hesitate about letting Josh hold Ivy. Yet, she’s the new golden daughter after Jill fell from grace, she’s the face of the TV show and has tended to get the most passes from even the snarkers (up until a year ago Jill was the sorry attempt at mommy blogging while Jessa was the natural despite the piles of dirty diapers). She’s as unfree as any fundie, but her cage is pretty enough she’d die defending it. Which is why I don’t really see her following Ben if he went through with his inner city ministry dreams if it meant quitting NW Arkansas or Counting On. They do seem to compromise- Ben spoke freely about not following the Cult of Trump back in 2016, they make a point of respecting social distance despite Jim Bob and Michelle not being fans of it (judging by Anna’s deleted story). But they still live near the TTH and sustain themselves with whatever Jim Bob gives them. They don’t even bother to dispel this, as Ben’s employment status remains a mystery. If Ben felt like uprooting his family, their version of Christianity technically allows them to. But not Duggar Christianity, in which Jim Bob may be more important than Jesus himself. Jill may have been the perfect Christian IBLP fundie, but Jessa is the perfect Duggar fundie, and she sees no reason to question her father.

[Mama Mia]

4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I remember one episode when the older girls, JB and Michelle were talking about guys wanting to get to know the girls, and young Jessa maybe @ 14? blurting  out that all the guys were “ weirdos”. I think Michelle did reprimand her. Honey, those guys,  and for that fact your husbands, would be considered weirdos by many peoples’ standards because your family was weird! Weird attracts weird. 

But to be fair, the girls were very young, and getting lots of very weird and creepy overtures from strange men.

If they didn’t Already buy in to their Dad screening and controlling their personal lives up until marriage, probably exposure to that would convince them it was a good idea. 

[Bobology]

4 hours ago, FreeTheScapegoats said:

But not Duggar Christianity, in which Jim Bob may be more important than Jesus himself.

By golly, you've hit the nail on the head! Change "may be" to "is" and that pretty much sums it up. He uses jesus and god to control and get his way in everything. He doesn't even need to believe any of the religion stuff, he just needs to use it to be in control.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

20 hours ago, FreeTheScapegoats said:

The question is whether or not Jessa would accept that or she’d eventually decide they’re unequally yoked and divorce. 

Jessa would not divorce Ben, if he moved or wanted off the show. Can you imagine a woman divorcing her headship because she didn't like the direction he was taking the family, that does not fit into the cult narrative.  Look what the did with Anna after Josh CHEATED on her, No their will be no divorce. UNLESS Ben turns into a vocal Duggar/ATI bashing atheist, pro choice gay loving liberal. Then yeah I can see JB allowing Jessa an out. 

15 hours ago, Bobology said:

By golly, you've hit the nail on the head! Change "may be" to "is" and that pretty much sums it up. He uses jesus and god to control and get his way in everything. He doesn't even need to believe any of the religion stuff, he just needs to use it to be in control.

This is the reason so many males in cultish versions of Christianity have narcissistic personalities. They flock to these "religions" like pedophiles flocked to the priesthood, they are allowed to get away with their vile desires. 

[Glasgowghirl]

It was Jessa that called the guys weirdos. I found that comment hilarious, while none of their husband's are people I'd choose they are still probably better than the men asking for then girl's hands in marriage. 

[Vivi_music]

On 4/9/2020 at 2:35 PM, FreeTheScapegoats said:

The question is whether or not Jessa would accept that or she’d eventually decide they’re unequally yoked and divorce. Jill was the perfect fundie, which is why she could follow her headship into questioning Jim Bob. Jessa, on the other hand, is the kind that either breaks free or upholds the cult. Had she been made into the scapegoat, she would be writing the preface to the tenth anniversary edition of her tell-all. However, Jim Bob and Michelle did their indoctrination right with her. She got Jana’s jewelry box, after all- a benefit in the guise of guilt. And that’s a good metaphor of her life. She lives in fear of the wrath of God and her father, who could kick her and her family to the curb if she dare hesitate about letting Josh hold Ivy. Yet, she’s the new golden daughter after Jill fell from grace, she’s the face of the TV show and has tended to get the most passes from even the snarkers (up until a year ago Jill was the sorry attempt at mommy blogging while Jessa was the natural despite the piles of dirty diapers). She’s as unfree as any fundie, but her cage is pretty enough she’d die defending it. Which is why I don’t really see her following Ben if he went through with his inner city ministry dreams if it meant quitting NW Arkansas or Counting On. They do seem to compromise- Ben spoke freely about not following the Cult of Trump back in 2016, they make a point of respecting social distance despite Jim Bob and Michelle not being fans of it (judging by Anna’s deleted story). But they still live near the TTH and sustain themselves with whatever Jim Bob gives them. They don’t even bother to dispel this, as Ben’s employment status remains a mystery. If Ben felt like uprooting his family, their version of Christianity technically allows them to. But not Dggar Christianity, in which Jim Bob may be more important than Jesus himself. Jill may have been the perfect Christian IBLP fundie, but Jessa is the perfect Duggar fundie, and she sees no reason to question her father.

I agree with you abou Jessa not being free at all, but just living in a nice and pretty cage that she finds very comfortable for now. Like you said, she is the perfect Duggar fundie. She is happy in her situation, she has her little house, her kids, the show, the bills are paid, etc.

The only thing I disagree is Jessa possibly divorcing Ben is he wanted to move out or completly cut ties with the Duggars. Simply because Ben wouldn't be the one deciding these things. I really feel she is the one wearing the pants in this relationship. I don't see Ben putting his foot down to follow his dream of being an inner city minister. If he does one day, then I'll be STUNNED. He isn't different from Jessa if you ask me: he got married to the girl he saw on TV and was gushing over, he has comfort and financial stability. Enough for a person to feel safe and not question his way of living.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Vivi_music
Correcting typo

[Idlewild]

8 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

I agree with you abou Jessa not being free at all, but just living in a nice and pretty cage that she finds very comfortable for now. Like you said, she is the perfect Duggar fundie. She is happy in her situation, she has her little house, her kids, the show, the bills are paid, etc.

The only thing I disagree is Jessa possibly divorcing Ben is he wanted to move out or completly cut ties with the Duggars. Simply because Ben wouldn't be the one deciding these things. I really feel she is the one wearing the pants in this relationship. I don't see Ben putting his foot down to follow his dream of being an inner city minister. If he does one day, then I'll be STUNNED. Je isn't different from Jessa if you ask me: he got married to the girl he saw on TV and was gushing over, he has comfort and financial stability. Enough for a person to feel safe and not question his way of living.

I think this is right- Ben was a teenager who wanted the pretty girl on TV and he has fulfilled his ambition without too much effort on the work front. How many of his contemporaries have a home, children, bills paid, trips paid for and enough followers to make a sideline from a YouTube channel? Life is pretty sweet if you’re prepared to ignore being controlled by an asshat like JB, and he clearly is.

Derick on the other hand wanted more than just a Duggar daughter and has clearly tired of being ‘sweet’ for JB.

[HeartsAFundie]

8 hours ago, Idlewild said:

I think this is right- Ben was a teenager who wanted the pretty girl on TV and he has fulfilled his ambition without too much effort on the work front. How many of his contemporaries have a home, children, bills paid, trips paid for and enough followers to make a sideline from a YouTube channel? Life is pretty sweet if you’re prepared to ignore being controlled by an asshat like JB, and he clearly is.

Derick on the other hand wanted more than just a Duggar daughter and has clearly tired of being ‘sweet’ for JB.

My son is a year younger than Ben, works full time and still lives at home after graduating from college 2 years ago.  He could do without the kids, but he would love to have the home, bills paid for, free trips and a YouTube channel side hustle.  However, as much as he would love to have all of that,  I don't think he would sell out his autonomy for it (at least I hope not).  

[princessmahina]

Jessa’s food how-to video was better than her sisters’. And the soup sounded...really tasty. A whole stick of butter plus a cup of cream, yikes. 

[JordynDarby5]

12 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

It was Jessa that called the guys weirdos. I found that comment hilarious, while none of their husband's are people I'd choose they are still probably better than the men asking for then girl's hands in marriage. 

I found it hilarious too. Even in the nicest terms its still weird. Ben was an underage teen who found Jessa Duggar hot and his parents drove him two hours (or was it four hours) just so he could meet her. At some point during their courtship he was moved into a room in a warehouse on Duggar property. Yeah, that's not weird at all.

Derick called up JB to be prayer partner and went to Nepal from there he called JB and after awhile JB allowed Jill to listen into their calls. The two talked the whole time on the phone and Jill met his mother before JB was happy to fly his daughter out to Nepal to meet and start a courtship. Yeah, that's not weird either.

Jeremy lived in the real world where he could date any woman he want and without the long list of rules and an controlling asshole father. He meets Ben and Jessa in Texas who invite him to Jessa's baby shower in Arkansas to meet Jinger. Yeah, that's completely normal. 

Austin might actually be the closest to normal. Joy was interested in him despite the fact she kept painting her name on the walls of the houses he's renovated until his sister pointed that out to him. I've lost count of how many guys had no idea a girl was interested in them despite the girl making it very clear and very obvious. My sister-in-law and I still laugh at how long it took my brother to realize she was into him. Same with my best friend and her husband. Guys can be oddly dense at times. Although I can't remember if that story seems to popup a lot in Fundie circles or not. It sound familiar or maybe I'm just thinking of Michael Bates who rather then say anything or be allowed to say anything to Brandon because of the cult's stupid teachings and did nothing until his sister pointed that out to him. At least Joy got to be a little more proactive by writing her name on walls. Horrible beliefs but that's not exactly a turn off for Duggars. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Hmmm, no hour-long tribute to Mechelle yet. Go figure.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

35 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Hmmm, no hour-long tribute to Mechelle yet. Go figure.

I'd think it's going to be damn near impossible to fill that time.

[marmalade]

She's too busy posting "cooking" videos. The latest? Green beans with bacon bits. 

[clueliss]

Sierra managed to give us a glimpse of Jessa in pants on her instagram stories.  They dropped off tacos at the Seewalds as a surprise (social distancing was practiced with a set at door, knock and back up ). 
 

Spoiler

 

[just_ordinary]

On 4/10/2020 at 3:55 PM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Jessa would not divorce Ben, if he moved or wanted off the show. Can you imagine a woman divorcing her headship because she didn't like the direction he was taking the family, that does not fit into the cult narrative.  Look what the did with Anna after Josh CHEATED on her, No their will be no divorce. UNLESS Ben turns into a vocal Duggar/ATI bashing atheist, pro choice gay loving liberal. Then yeah I can see JB allowing Jessa an out. 

[...]

I am not sure though. Anna had every right to leave Josh even by their fundamentalist believe system. But this cult made a big deal out of staying and bringing your headships back on the right way by example. It’s such a twisted concept and it’s a big part while women (and men) don’t separate even if there is cheating, abuse or leaving the faith (big thing for them) involved.
On the other hand- the Duggars are also very much a Cult of JB. Therefore leaving the family fold could be treated differently and the twisted rules might be bend at JB’s pleasure. After all, Fundies are the masters of cherry picking and their own logic.

[medimus]

The michelle video is up!

It starts with thanks for having her, as a mom herself Jessa realises the sacrifice of labour so many times. It sounds like a subtle-ish dig a contraception/abortion.

Michele ran on 4-5 hours sleep for a good few years and managed it by trusting in the lord

She would take one child at a time to the shop, to chat with them. In the car she would ask getting to know you questions like 'what is your favourite ice cream', 'who is your best friend' etc. She noted this down so she knew this for all the kids and could get them something they liked for their birthdays (to me this is just something surely you know about your children?)

THey were allowed to run around in the garden, climb all the trees. Then Jessa contradicts herself by saying they only had one injury, a broken arm. And two sentences later saying they had lots of 'cracked skulls' from running in to each other playing tag etc.

They had chore run-arounds, where they would all do their chores as quickly as possible.

THe practiced hymns and memorised scipture. Which Ben and Jessa have started doing with their children as well. Jessa draws on these memorised verses/psalms etc now.

She would talk about underlying attitudes when there was bad behaviour (not just, don't do that or don't shout, but saying there is anger underneath etc, to children of all ages)

They were read to: sometimes children's sotires like little house on the prairie and sometimes biographies of missionaries for people to look up to (Jessa mentiones a bunch of names)

Michelle lowered her voice instead of shouting, apparently something in the bible and Michelle apologised to the children for shouting at them. Jessa had similar experience recently. Michelle whispers and the children know she means business.

Apparently MIchelle was very relatable, she often said she remembere what it was like or shared embarrasing stories.

Michelle modelled hospitality, hosted families, ate dinner/played games.

Jessa is in awe of Michelle for potty training so many children and not getting angry at them for accidents.

MIchele would call family meetings to remind children of rules, other times she would tell one or two older ones and it would trickle down.

They were outside as much as possible in most weather, if they couldn't go out Michelle arranged games in the house.

The parents never put eachother or the children down in front of others. Parents were always hugging, kissing etc

Michelle is an excellent bargain hunter. Visiting thrift stores was like a treasure hunt and michele would let the children (or possibly the older girls) pick out whatever they wanted.

They each got their own jar of pickles in their christmas stocking, plus candy and recently to be healthier Beef jerkey (is that helathy???). Other than that they do christmas gift exchange one person buying for one other. THe parents get practical presents. CHristmas 2019 they got everyone a new pillow including chidlren in law.

SIckness would spread through whole family quickly. And michele would cheer them up by tucking them up in a corner of the couch.

part two later if I can sit through it.

 

 

 

Is there a reason fundies seem to call Easter Resurrection Sunday? Is Easter too pagan for them??