Seewalds 43: Pants may Have Been Worn Or Not

[SorenaJ]

Yeah sure, breast milk is nutritionally best, but so what if you don't feed your child the nutritionally best option all the time? No parents give their child the nutritionally best option all the time, and that's okay. People's sanity is also important. 

[indianabones]

Don't you guys just love FJ breastfeeding discussions? ?

[aussie_1974]

I have never understood why feeding choices upset women so much. My first son was a NICU preemie requiring surgery to fix a lung at birth. The lactation consultant pressured me to breast feed despite my lack of production, stress, infant on ventilator etc..  After 10 days my husband told her that I was done as he feared I was having a nervous breakdown between trying to pump and everything else. Later after we were home I was at the supermarket and whipped out the bottle. An older lady told me loudly if I knew that breast was best. Why do women judge how babies are fed? I was about to cry when a gentleman said, he's eating leave him alone.. We are so wrapped up in breast pressure that we have lost sight of the end goal of having a thriving baby and Mother. My second son, camped on that boob at birth and stayed there for 14 months. It doesn't matter how the baby gets fed as long as it eats and women need to give each other a break. In the end nobody is going to care how that baby was fed... 

[lizzybee]

My toddler could have had grilled chicken and broccoli at Ocharleys last night and that would have been nutritionally best. But he won’t eat that. I ordered him popcorn shrimp and French fries. He will eat that. Motherhood from start to present has been me surrendering ideals for reality. He needs to eat, what can/will he eat? 
 

I would have loved to breast feed, I would have loved a natural birth, I wish I could have taught him to only love vegetables and not be picky, I wish I was a more creative and fun mom that doesn’t need to use the television to function some days. 
 

Instead I had pre eclampsia, a csection, a baby in the NICU, breasts that don’t make breast milk, a kid that favors peanut butter and chicken nuggets, and a subscription to Noggin on Amazon prime so he can watch his favorite shows and not always be destroying my house. I love him more than life. I’m not perfect and my plans didn’t stick, but I still have a great relationship with my kids. I’ve given up on perfection and on mom shaming myself for not meeting the ideals of motherhood I concocted in my head. 
 

My grandmother that raised me passed away last week. I always said I couldn’t do without her and yet here we are, still pushing forward. The things I remember and gained most from her weren’t the ideals that we erect for perfect motherhood. It was that she loved and accepted me unconditionally, more than any other person has in my life. I can’t remember her even getting in the floor and playing with me once or assembling even one craft for me to do. I do remember her meeting every need I had before I ever thought to need it though. She certainly had to bottle feed me, and I don’t think she ever offered me any kale, but I always had a jacket on my back and something eat when I was hungry. She was the best mother I could have ever asked for and so when I need to give myself some grace for all the things I feel like I’m not doing well enough, I ask myself did she have to do those things for me for me to turn out okay and think she was a good mother. It helps when I’m being unnecessarily hard on myself about all these rules and expectations that society and studies put on moms. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, lizzybee said:

My toddler could have had grilled chicken and broccoli at Ocharleys last night and that would have been nutritionally best. But he won’t eat that. I ordered him popcorn shrimp and French fries. He will eat that. Motherhood from start to present has been me surrendering ideals for reality. He needs to eat, what can/will he eat? 
 

I would have loved to breast feed, I would have loved a natural birth, I wish I could have taught him to only love vegetables and not be picky, I wish I was a more creative and fun mom that doesn’t need to use the television to function some days. 
 

Instead I had pre eclampsia, a csection, a baby in the NICU, breasts that don’t make breast milk, a kid that favors peanut butter and chicken nuggets, and a subscription to Noggin on Amazon prime so he can watch his favorite shows and not always be destroying my house. I love him more than life. I’m not perfect and my plans didn’t stick, but I still have a great relationship with my kids. I’ve given up on perfection and on mom shaming myself for not meeting the ideals of motherhood I concocted in my head. 
 

My grandmother that raised me passed away last week. I always said I couldn’t do without her and yet here we are, still pushing forward. The things I remember and gained most from her weren’t the ideals that we erect for perfect motherhood. It was that she loved and accepted me unconditionally, more than any other person has in my life. I can’t remember her even getting in the floor and playing with me once or assembling even one craft for me to do. I do remember her meeting every need I had before I ever thought to need it though. She certainly had to bottle feed me, and I don’t think she ever offered me any kale, but I always had a jacket on my back and something eat when I was hungry. She was the best mother I could have ever asked for and so when I need to give myself some grace for all the things I feel like I’m not doing well enough, I ask myself did she have to do those things for me for me to turn out okay and think she was a good mother. It helps when I’m being unnecessarily hard on myself about all these rules and expectations that society and studies put on moms. 

I am sorry for the loss of your mother.

[nolongerIFBx]

5 hours ago, lizzybee said:

My grandmother that raised me passed away last week. I always said I couldn’t do without her and yet here we are, still pushing forward. The things I remember and gained most from her weren’t the ideals that we erect for perfect motherhood. It was that she loved and accepted me unconditionally, more than any other person has in my life. I can’t remember her even getting in the floor and playing with me once or assembling even one craft for me to do. I do remember her meeting every need I had before I ever thought to need it though. She certainly had to bottle feed me, and I don’t think she ever offered me any kale, but I always had a jacket on my back and something eat when I was hungry. She was the best mother I could have ever asked for and so when I need to give myself some grace for all the things I feel like I’m not doing well enough, I ask myself did she have to do those things for me for me to turn out okay and think she was a good mother. It helps when I’m being unnecessarily hard on myself about all these rules and expectations that society and studies put on moms. 

My sympathies, Lizzybee.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

Similarly to other posters above, I did not produce enough milk, no matter what I did, so we started supplementing with formula almost from the start, and eventually, completely formula-fed.  

I really wanted to breastfeed and tried it all: the herbal teas, the 2-hour feeding schedule, the supplements, the nipple shields, pumps 1,2,3... It wasn't happening. On a good session, I had maybe, maybe 1/4 of the milk supply my son needed. 

I had a horrible experience with the lactation consultants who basically implied and one even openly said that I was not doing enough, that it was my fault. I was terribly anxious at the thought that my son would not have enough food. When formula became the main source of nutrition (and then exclusive) for my son, I was very relieved, because I knew that he could get whatever breast milk I was able to give him, but beyond that, i knew he would have enough to eat no matter what. 

I remember a famous meeting with the lactation consultant and my son's pediatrician: the LC said that I needed to pump 8 times a day, and if I didn't, that I was to blame and not to be surprised I did not have any milk. My son's pediatrician told her to go to hell and told me to take a nap, do what I felt comfortable doing, and use formula. I laugh about it now but it was really psychologically taxing. 

[lizzybee]

1 hour ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I remember a famous meeting with the lactation consultant and my son's pediatrician: the LC said that I needed to pump 8 times a day, and if I didn't, that I was to blame and not to be surprised I did not have any milk. My son's pediatrician told her to go to hell and told me to take a nap, do what I felt comfortable doing, and use formula. I laugh about it now but it was really psychologically taxing. 

Amen. The thing I needed most at the end there when I finally surrendered was just for someone to say, “it’s okay. Just feed your baby.” I needed to hear that so badly. It was such a relief when I finally let go of all the supplements and prescriptions and pumping that wasn’t accomplishing anything. My nipples were swollen and scabbed, I was constantly crying, getting zero sleep because no one could help, and the prescription I was taking was giving me PPD that I didn’t have without it. What it wasn’t doing was helping me make more breast milk. On top of that my baby was starving. Then I gave in and made him a bottle, I got to get some sleep for the first time in days, stopped taking the crazy pills, and actually was able to enjoy my baby and heal. So many people were like “Don’t give up!” I was so miserable and exhausted though. It was my husband who finally begged me to let it go and recover. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 hours ago, lizzybee said:

My grandmother that raised me passed away last week.

I am so sorry for your loss.  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

@lizzybee, I'm sorry for your loss.  

I had similar history to you, I wanted everything natural, from birth, to breastfeeding, I wanted a midwife. But by 22 weeks I was considered at risk, because of pregnancy induced hypertension. By 32 weeks they started my weekly office visits, where I was being monitored for preeclampsia. At 35 weeks they were wanting me to come in 2x a week, I was retaining fluid at an alarming rate, I gained 11 pounds in 6 days between 34 and 35 weeks, and they were positive all of it was water. A few days later though, my water broke/started leaking. They decided to induce, even though I wasn't contracting and I wasn't dilated at all, my blood pressure kept going up so they decided I was early stage preeclampmsia and it was best to induce right away.  I finally had a c/section after a long labor and 4 hours of pushing, when my doctor could be bothered to break away from his Thanksgiving gathering,  

I was lucky my 36 week baby did NOT require extra care, he only had minor issues, like a week suck and some digestion issues. I tried breastfeeding him, but between his week suck and my inverted nipples, we couldn't get him to latch on, so I tried pumping, that got me nowhere, I could pump till the cows came home, I'd get maybe an ounce total out of both breasts over the course of 2 or 3 pumping sessions. After 3 weeks of this, I was DONE and gave into to not being able to nurse him at all. I think all of this contributed to my PPD, nothing went as I planned and between that the exhaustion, the judgement from people for not breastfeeding, and people commenting on my "taking the easy way out" by having a c/section. I was a fucking mess. By the time I had DD 2  1/2 yrs later, I knew it would be OK to have a c/section and formula feed if I was unable again to breastfeed, my son was AMAZINGLY perfect and healthy and that was all that mattered. 

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

@lizzybee I am so very sorry for your loss!

@allthegoodnamesrgone You bet! I don't know if we'll ever have #2, but if we do, I know that I'll  be more prepared for all the feeding options, and for advocating for myself and my baby. 

[AussieKrissy]

@lizzybee oh Hunny I am so sorry for your loss xoxoxox

[SweetJuly]

Interestingly the benefits of breastfeeding are often overstated. As @just_ordinary wrote, the benefits are rather minimal. If anyone is looking for a calm summary of the topic, I refer them to this article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-case-against-breast-feeding/307311/

Having said that, if it works for you, personally breastfeeding absolutely strikes me as "the best" - not only is breastmilk baby's natural food, it's also "free" (if women's time and effort is worth nothing) and immediately available, and does not require endless handling of bottles.

I definitely wanted to breastfeed. I was so set on breastfeeding that I tried with everything in my power to succeed even though I had a very real physical limitation: When I was 18, I had a significant breast reduction. My tissue, milk ducts and nipples are reduced, damaged and scarred. I knew it was going to be hard. I was prepared. I had attended a breastfeeding workshop, read the authoritative book on the topic, arranged for an experienced lactation consultant and had all the props lined up, including a breastpump and SNS (supplemental nursing system).

It was an absolute nightmare. Triple feeding (nurse, SNS with formula/the tiny bit of expressed breastmilk I could manage, and then pump) kept me busy basically all day and night as the moment I was done with one round, the next would begin. My supply just wouldn't increase. In fact, I believe that my ducts are so damaged it was impossible for my baby or the pump to get much out. I was working myself straight into postnatal depression and was seriously struggling with bonding with our daughter because I was constantly a stressed anxious mess.

After a short holiday at 3 months during which I couldn't keep up the triple feeding completely tanked my supply, I decided together with my husband to just stop. It was so easy physically. I didn't even get engorged and my supply just dried up within a few days. Emotionally and mentally it was hard to come to terms with my "failure", but I could finally relax and just enjoy being with my baby.

There is so much more to being a mother/parent than nursing. If trying to breastfeed is keeping you from being the parent your baby needs, it's time and OK to stop.

[SassyPants]

Medicine is an interesting entity because it is research based and treatment modalities change as better methods are discovered. In the early 80s, non medicated births were the standard. The doctors did not want to order epidurals as natural was best. This was also the era of “”drive through” deliveries, which likely went hand- in -hand with not wanting to give epidurals. Push em out and go home was pretty much the standard. In the 90s, pain became the 5 th patient vital sign. The thought was pain was whatever a patient said it was, and a patient should never be in pain. So pain meds were ordered on a sliding scale, with the actual dose to be determined by the nurse based on the patient’s stated pain level based on a given scale. For the non verbal, pain level was (is) determined by physical cues. I worked with many nurses who would give the highest dose thinking they were doing the right thing. Eventually we realized we were addicting long term patients to narcotics. We learned and adjusted. Breast is best is a more current mantra. It’s just my opinion, but if you’re trying so hard to breast feed that the baby is frustrated and the mom is exhausted and anxious, it’s not a healthy situation for anyone in the mix. I usually default to the most logical choice. My kids had some formula during that first year and they are healthy, happy, educated adults. They are allergy free and have zero weight issues. Our home was not insane during those newborn days. No one could convince me that there was a better or healthier way for my family.

[LillyP]

I think a huge part of the continued problem with the whole issue surrounding feeding your damn kids, and just parenting in general, is social media.

I'm in my mid 30's with a two year old.  Facebook/social media didn't become a thing until I'd already graduated college. Even then it took several  YEARS before it was anything more than sharing cute photos and posting a status about what you were doing that day. I'm from a southern town where most of my friends graduated college at 21/22, got married, and had their first kid by 24....many of them were done having kids before I even got engaged! My mom-friends who are my age or older didn't have near the pressure because no one was posting how awesome they are at mom-ing all over facebook or instagram. They all blissfully raised their breastfed or formula fed babies, pushed them around in non-trendy Graco strollers, and went about their business. I fully admit that I feel a pull between two worlds, just the nature of being in my 30's when I had my first kid means that most of my mom friends that I hang out with are much younger than me - because that's who has kids the same age. I very much have a different mindset of not giving a shit what other people think, but that's not to say opinions don't creep into my head.

And for the record I've always been pro "fed is best" and have even advocated that to my friends who struggled with breastfeeding. I was the first one to assure them that using formula was FINE and that having a healthy baby and healthy mom was most important. But I'm here to tell you that even the most logical thoughts go out the window when you are newly postpartum, full of hormones, and feeling like a failure for not being able to get your body to do what you want it to. I will never forget sobbing as I gave my baby a bottle of formula because after 3 weeks nursing wasn't going well and he was not gaining weight. In the end we supplemented for a weekend while I started pumping, and he got bottles of breastmilk from then out. Eventually I got him back to nursing and it wasn't a big deal. But in those early weeks when you are dying to get it "right" it feels like the weight of the world is on your shoulders.

[lizzybee]

@LillyP giving up Facebook and mommy groups was one of the best things I've done for my sanity. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

11 hours ago, lizzybee said:

@LillyP giving up Facebook and mommy groups was one of the best things I've done for my sanity. 

I can't imagine giving birth in the age of Facebook, Instagram & Twitter, it was bad enough when I had kids and it was just babycenter.com 

[lizzybee]

The mom group was helpful and it felt like having a community for a while but as the new wore off and people got set in their ways, it changed. I found I was happier and more confident as a mom by stepping back from that environment because I was always measuring myself and my kids with other moms and kids. Not healthy.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, lizzybee said:

The mom group was helpful and it felt like having a community for a while but as the new wore off and people got set in their ways, it changed. I found I was happier and more confident as a mom by stepping back from that environment because I was always measuring myself and my kids with other moms and kids. Not healthy.

A group of around 20 of us who were all due in the same month started a side group, it fell out fairly quickly to about 15 when the militants on any one thing left because we didn't want to deal with them.  it has been 20 years now and 10 of us are still in a private group, though we've moved platforms over the years, we talk on the phones, we've all meet several times, we live all over the country, we are all fairly like minded, so that helps, we are all pretty you do you. I was 1 of 3 woman who had at least 1 older child, so we were the "experts" LOL. But we all talked each other down at one time or another, gave each other advice, cried with each other during miscarriages, a stillborn baby, divorces, losing parents. We are a great support system for each other. We don't talk as often as we used to, our babies are now in college so there isn't that day to day concern, of infancy through the teen years anymore.

If this corona-virus pandemic settles down I'm going to celebrate my 50th birthday with several of them in the Seattle. I really hope it is calmed down by September, 1, We'll all be bankrupt if it isn't.  2, I haven't seen some of them in 2 years and 3, I've never been to Seattle and I really want to go. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

The mommy groups on FB are so DIRE! I'm in several of them and sometimes it gets ridiculous. "Never give your baby formula! He'll never latch again!!!" Sit down and breathe, lady! 

[princessmahina]

6 hours ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

The mommy groups on FB are so DIRE! I'm in several of them and sometimes it gets ridiculous. "Never give your baby formula! He'll never latch again!!!" Sit down and breathe, lady! 

Oh man, the people who issue dire warnings with words like “always” it “never” really get to me. Dang, ladies. Feed your baby some kind of milk (human breastmilk or baby formula). Don’t let them go hungry. It’s not rocket science ? humans are remarkably resilient creatures but we act as though there’s only one way to do things (don’t we all wish? It would make things SO much easier if babies came with foolproof instructions). I think generally that as long as you’re doing your best, or somewhere near that, you’re probably doing fine. 

[justoneoftwo]

 you can find Mom groups that are great or find ones that are terrible. Breastfeeding moms group is fantastic and very supportive when people want to use formula or not so it really is just finding the right group

[srlm]

Why isn't anyone talking about the Seewalds youtube birth stories video?  I tried to watch it this morning but I was bored out of my mind and couldn't watch more than a few minutes (Thank God I don't have to give birth again!)  

 

Why am I totally unable to  recall if she had a home birth for Ivy or not?  Did she get transferred to a hospital or birth there?  I think the instagram post for this youtube video has a photo of Jessa with Ivy in a hospital bed?  I cannot recall if I knew that or not????

[marmalade]

She had a birth story for Ivy. She claims that she saw a CNM and planned a hospital delivery. She went to pre-natal appointments at the hospital. Why she didn't go with the CNM on call rather than switch to a homebirth still remains a mystery. 

[lizzybee]

It sounded like to me that she was giving that avenue a try for Ben's sake because he'd asked it of her, and when it went awry she was happy to avert to what she really wanted to do and home birth again. Jessa, this is coming from another someone who wishes she could natural birth at home so badly but my body says no. I'm 3:0 preeclampsia and you're 2:1 for excessive blood loss. I'm going to just concentrate on getting to 37 weeks for a scheduled c-section, and you should listen to Ben next time, maybe try that epidural you seem interested in, and we'll both shoot for positive outcomes.  

FWIW, I'm pretty sure when she got up to lay down Ivy she was wearing pants. Jessa Seewald: secret pants wearer. I'm going to let an ESV bible quote and some comfortable-looking pink trousers take the edge off after I unwillingly processed the ignorant crap Kendra's family is posting on their IG tonight. It'll be like the equivalent of Tum's, but for my brain.