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Coconut Flan

Dillards 82: Derick Spills the Tea

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Cleopatra7
8 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

FTFY 

This is going to sound really crass and insensitive - Wasn’t Josie delivered early to prevent Michelle from dying?  How is that different than a woman getting an abortion to not die? They’re really lucky Josie survived. Josie had amazing doctors and nurses. But sadly, too many times a micro-premie has amazing doctors and nurses but doesn’t survive.

I think they would say that Josie was delivered early to save her life, not Michelle’s, even though it was the other way around from a medical perspective. 

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MoonFace
22 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

The debate on the last page about whether Jim Bob can truly love Michelle while getting her pregnant after a very high-risk pregnancy made me think: this is the problem with their weird belief system, it makes them prioritize faith as a way to undertake dangerous behaviours with (they hope) no consequences, even when their love, emotions, common sense etc. might give them pause.

It's pretty amazing how effective this type of brainwashing can be, overprinting people's natural common sense, curiosity, concern and love for their partner...

What I found really really wrong was that even after all the trouble with Josie and losing the other one that they went to check on fertility treatments.   

Crap on a cracker!   

That wasn't even close to 'leaving it to God'.   Basically, they were saying, Lets see how many kids Moo can crank out before it kills her - then Boob can get himself a younger wife and pump out some more!   

 

 

22 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I'm sure he thinks that he's supposed to love God more than Michelle. This is a religion that has a story about a dude sacrificing his son because God said so. The fact that Michelle almost died (If she did) just makes him closer to Abraham/God.

And FAME is the name of his God!

 

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breakfree
1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

What I found really really wrong was that even after all the trouble with Josie and losing the other one that they went to check on fertility treatments.   

Crap on a cracker!   

That wasn't even close to 'leaving it to God'.   

I almost never defend those two but I don't think this is a fair characterization of what they did as presented on the episode where it was shown. It seemed they were seeking answers about how likely she was to conceive again naturally and the doctor said it was technically possible but very unlikely naturally. No further fertility treatment options were mentioned by the doctor nor did Jboob or jchelle raise such a possibility at least on camera. While the vibe I got was that she at least was hoping the doctor would say it was possible from what we saw they were only seeking information. She was gonna keep joyfully available-ing on either way.

This isn't to say I think they acted responsibly about childbearing. Not at all. But it's not accurate based on anything we know to claim they sought fertility treatments.

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Bad Wolf

@breakfreeThat's how I remember it too. I think TLC may have teased it as a fertility clinic, but I think it was just a regular OB/GYN.

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SassyPants

However, if a couple truly was leaving fertility up to God, they wouldn’t be seeking answers from anyone. SO... these people were maximizing reproduction to enhance their fame and pocket book$!!

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Duggarite
5 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

FTFY 

This is going to sound really crass and insensitive - Wasn’t Josie delivered early to prevent Michelle from dying?  How is that different than a woman getting an abortion to not die? They’re really lucky Josie survived. Josie had amazing doctors and nurses. But sadly, too many times a micro-premie has amazing doctors and nurses but doesn’t survive.

Not exactly. With preeclampsia the mother deteriorates and may die, but the baby might die too. There is a very high risk of placental abruption and the baby dying as a result, so doctors usually wait as much as possible for the mom to have the steroids shots  in order to develop the baby lungs as much as possible and then deliver the baby. The classic dilemma of saving mother or baby is in real life extremely rare.

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VeryNikeSeamstress
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, llg1234 said:

I wonder how Derick would feel about having a phrase that originated from drag culture as the title of a thread about his family. :think:

Not sure he's worthy of it, tbh. Especially since this 'tea' is weak as hell.

Derick's tea is lukewarm and decaf.

I think the 'shunning' is all about Derick being a loose cannon who publicly expresses opinions that differ from the Duggar brand. Aside from him talking about the show, didn't he say somethung about not being opposed to birth control? That could be seen as a dangerous idea they don't want their tween/teen daughters exposed to. Their long gap between kids compared to the kool aid drinkers innthe family may make this taboo topic come up.

 

Edited by VeryNikeSeamstress

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Scrappinmac
2 hours ago, breakfree said:

I almost never defend those two but I don't think this is a fair characterization of what they did as presented on the episode where it was shown. It seemed they were seeking answers about how likely she was to conceive again naturally and the doctor said it was technically possible but very unlikely naturally. No further fertility treatment options were mentioned by the doctor nor did Jboob or jchelle raise such a possibility at least on camera. While the vibe I got was that she at least was hoping the doctor would say it was possible from what we saw they were only seeking information. She was gonna keep joyfully available-ing on either way.

This isn't to say I think they acted responsibly about childbearing. Not at all. But it's not accurate based on anything we know to claim they sought fertility treatments.

I remember that episode- TLC made it look like the episode would be about "I want more kids- how do we make it happen", but it was more like, "pretty sure I'm too old to have any more kids."  I was just starting perimenopause when it aired, which is why I remember it. 

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HerNameIsBuffy
10 minutes ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

Derick's tea is lukewarm and decaf.

I think the 'shunning' is all about Derick being a loose cannon who publicly expresses opinions that differ from the Duggar brand. Aside from himntalking about the show, didn't he say somethung about not being opposed to birth control? That could be seen as a dangerous idea they don't want their tween/teen daughters exposed to. The long gap between kids compared to the kool aid drinkers may make this taboo topic likely to come up.

 

I'm not defending JB for anything, but pragmatically I think it boils down to Derek said on SM he's writing a book between semesters and has made references to suing the family.

If someone who didn't like me was writing a book about my cult without my consent and is open to suing me I wouldn't let them in my house or around my family without my direct supervision either.

I'm sure a lot of this other stuff plays a part, but given what he said he is doing/may do it's likely just JB trying to shut the barn door before he learns even more.

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grandmadugger
12 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I do wonder if the only gate keeping JB does is asking for a young man’s testimony or something like that. Unlike some patriarchs, JB isn’t into theology and I doubt that the nuances of what Ben believes vs what Derick believes registers with him. 

I bet he’s figuring it out now. He might not have understood the difference 5 years ago. 

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allthegoodnamesrgone
8 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

Derick's tea is lukewarm and decaf.

I think the 'shunning' is all about Derick being a loose cannon who publicly expresses opinions that differ from the Duggar brand. Aside from him talking about the show, didn't he say somethung about not being opposed to birth control? That could be seen as a dangerous idea they don't want their tween/teen daughters exposed to. Their long gap between kids compared to the kool aid drinkers innthe family may make this taboo topic come up.

I think the biggest issues between JB & Derick is that Derick dares to blatantly defy JB, or at the very least not kowtow to JB's demands, of whatever it is JB demands.  It's never seemed to bother him that Josh & Anna have a 2 to 2.5 year gap in kids, or bigger gap between Henry & Ivy,, I think it has everything to do with Derick being his own person and refusing to allow JB to control him & Jill. 

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Idlewild
9 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I think the biggest issues between JB & Derick is that Derick dares to blatantly defy JB, or at the very least not kowtow to JB's demands, of whatever it is JB demands.  It's never seemed to bother him that Josh & Anna have a 2 to 2.5 year gap in kids, or bigger gap between Henry & Ivy,, I think it has everything to do with Derick being his own person and refusing to allow JB to control him & Jill. 

Pure speculation here but I wonder if DD’s  defiance is about Josh. I doubt DD got full disclosure about Josh’s behaviour ( we all recall Michelle dabbing her eyes and sobbing ‘over their clothes’). It was downplayed and minimised and Jill went along as she trusted her parents. As DD and Jill got to know each other better and Jill was able to talk about what happened and her feelings DD realised he had been lied to and had gone along with the rehabilitation of Josh (socialising with him, taking cash from him) and when he realised the truth about the abuse, its effects on Jill and how JB & M effectively chose the abuser in order to maintain their brand, he flipped.

I still think DD was happy to jump aboard the bigoted gravy train in order to indulge his hippy missionary fantasy without actually having to work at anything but having children of his own made him realise what toxic and generally shit parents the Duggars are.

 

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apandaaries
14 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Pure speculation here but I wonder if DD’s  defiance is about Josh. I doubt DD got full disclosure about Josh’s behaviour ( we all recall Michelle dabbing her eyes and sobbing ‘over their clothes’). It was downplayed and minimised and Jill went along as she trusted her parents. As DD and Jill got to know each other better and Jill was able to talk about what happened and her feelings DD realised he had been lied to and had gone along with the rehabilitation of Josh (socialising with him, taking cash from him) and when he realised the truth about the abuse, its effects on Jill and how JB & M effectively chose the abuser in order to maintain their brand, he flipped.

I still think DD was happy to jump aboard the bigoted gravy train in order to indulge his hippy missionary fantasy without actually having to work at anything but having children of his own made him realise what toxic and generally shit parents the Duggars are.

 

You’ve got a more generous view of him than I. I think it’s all about money and power. Two numbskulls fighting it out over the Duggar empire, with Jill and the boys as pawns.

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Galbin
On 31 December 2019 at 12:26 AM, patsymae said:

Well, not that different from at least the pre-Vatican (and maybe now but so many ignore it) Catholic idea that with a choice you have to save the baby and not the mother, even if you are leaving 11ty billion kids without a mother. 

As a practicing Catholic, I have to point out that that is incorrect. The principle of double effect applies in such situations, and this means that intent is everything. So they try to save both mother and baby, but the baby's life is not valued above the mother's. In fact, actions to help the mother may result in the unintentional death of the baby, but the key word there is unintentional.

 

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Satisfied
scoutsadie
On 12/31/2019 at 7:43 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm not defending JB for anything, but pragmatically I think it boils down to Derek said on SM he's writing a book between semesters and has made references to suing the family.

If someone who didn't like me was writing a book about my cult without my consent and is open to suing me I wouldn't let them in my house or around my family without my direct supervision either.

(bolding mine)

I've seen this mentioned a few times, but what I read was a comment by Derick about the potential of the Dillards getting sued (for not filming), not of the Dillards potentially suing.

I could be wrong (and it's tricky on a tablet to go back and check an earlier thread), but thought this worth mentioning for the sake of accuracy.

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Themanda Duggar
1 hour ago, scoutsadie said:

 

I've seen this mentioned a few times, but what I read was a comment by Derick about the potential of the Dillards getting sued (for not filming), not of the Dillards potentially suing.

 

There was a comment like the one you mentioned, but there were a couple others that implied that the Dillards could sue TLC or JB.

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Idlewild
2 hours ago, Themanda Duggar said:

There was a comment like the one you mentioned, but there were a couple others that implied that the Dillards could sue TLC or JB.

I think in one of his twitter rants in early December DD mentioned TLC would have a lawsuit coming their way. His Instagram comments seem to imply they were worried about TLC suing them if they didn’t continue. I think the latter is nonsense- if they never had a contract & weren’t paid then what could TLC  sue them for. I think this is DD trying to be clever when people ask the obvious question- why didn’t you quit a lot sooner? Answering ‘well I’m not keen on working and weekly sushi dates don’t buy themselves’ isn’t going to garner much sympathy. 

I can’t stand DD - he is supercilious, single issue voting bigot. But if he manages to expose the Duggars for what they really are- good luck to him.

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SisNancy
7 hours ago, Galbin said:

As a practicing Catholic, I have to point out that that is incorrect. The principle of double effect applies in such situations, and this means that intent is everything. So they try to save both mother and baby, but the baby's life is not valued above the mother's. In fact, actions to help the mother may result in the unintentional death of the baby, but the key word there is unintentional.

 

Except this value you speak of isn’t even practiced in catholic hospitals in the US.  A fetuses life is valued above a mother and women have died needing life saving procedures.   

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Four is Enough
4 hours ago, SisNancy said:

Except this value you speak of isn’t even practiced in catholic hospitals in the US.  A fetuses life is valued above a mother and women have died needing life saving procedures.   

Can you link to the research backing up this statement?

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Wine time!
squiddysquid

Well that was back in Europe but I had to sit through a disgusting talk by a Catholic hospital OB GYN who heavily discourages pregnant patients diagnosed with cancer to abort so they can start cancer treatment and instead take their chances with their own life and have the baby.

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laPapessaGiovanna
1 hour ago, squiddysquid said:

Well that was back in Europe but I had to sit through a disgusting talk by a Catholic hospital OB GYN who heavily discourages pregnant patients diagnosed with cancer to abort so they can start cancer treatment and instead take their chances with their own life and have the baby.

Where in Europe? Because I can think of a few countries where this would be illegal so I am genuinely curious.

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allthegoodnamesrgone
7 hours ago, SisNancy said:

Except this value you speak of isn’t even practiced in catholic hospitals in the US.  A fetuses life is valued above a mother and women have died needing life saving procedures.   

I know this true in places like Ireland and it most certainly does happen here in the US. There are countless stories of women dying or nearly dying  because catholic hospitals will do NOTHING as long as the fetus has a heart beat.  Which is stupid, because if the mother is going to die in the next few minutes hours, the fetus is going to die, So the fetus will die either way, either mom will die and that will end the fetus, or the fetus's heart muscle will stop, (Yes, heart muscle, a new MEDICAL study found, that the fetal heart doesn't fully form until around 20 weeks of pregnancy, until then it is still organizing and pulling itself together.) and they will then try to save mom, if it isn't' too late, but by then instead of a simple D&C it is a D&C along with blood transfusion and often transfer to a different hospital to do both.  

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HerNameIsBuffy
1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I know this true in places like Ireland and it most certainly does happen here in the US. There are countless stories of women dying or nearly dying  because catholic hospitals will do NOTHING as long as the fetus has a heart beat.  Which is stupid, because if the mother is going to die in the next few minutes hours, the fetus is going to die, So the fetus will die either way, either mom will die and that will end the fetus, or the fetus's heart muscle will stop, (Yes, heart muscle, a new MEDICAL study found, that the fetal heart doesn't fully form until around 20 weeks of pregnancy, until then it is still organizing and pulling itself together.) and they will then try to save mom, if it isn't' too late, but by then instead of a simple D&C it is a D&C along with blood transfusion and often transfer to a different hospital to do both.  

Do you have any links to source this?

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Glasgowghirl
1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I know this true in places like Ireland and it most certainly does happen here in the US. There are countless stories of women dying or nearly dying  because catholic hospitals will do NOTHING as long as the fetus has a heart beat.  Which is stupid, because if the mother is going to die in the next few minutes hours, the fetus is going to die, So the fetus will die either way, either mom will die and that will end the fetus, or the fetus's heart muscle will stop, (Yes, heart muscle, a new MEDICAL study found, that the fetal heart doesn't fully form until around 20 weeks of pregnancy, until then it is still organizing and pulling itself together.) and they will then try to save mom, if it isn't' too late, but by then instead of a simple D&C it is a D&C along with blood transfusion and often transfer to a different hospital to do both.  

Incidents happened in Ireland prior to the laws on abortion being changed and those played a major factor in the laws being changed but as a rule in most other places, the mother would not be left to die. 

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MoonFace
On 1/1/2020 at 2:39 AM, Idlewild said:

Pure speculation here but I wonder if DD’s  defiance is about Josh. I doubt DD got full disclosure about Josh’s behaviour ( we all recall Michelle dabbing her eyes and sobbing ‘over their clothes’). It was downplayed and minimised and Jill went along as she trusted her parents. As DD and Jill got to know each other better and Jill was able to talk about what happened and her feelings DD realised he had been lied to and had gone along with the rehabilitation of Josh (socialising with him, taking cash from him) and when he realised the truth about the abuse, its effects on Jill and how JB & M effectively chose the abuser in order to maintain their brand, he flipped.

I still think DD was happy to jump aboard the bigoted gravy train in order to indulge his hippy missionary fantasy without actually having to work at anything but having children of his own made him realise what toxic and generally shit parents the Duggars are.

 

Bolding is mine.   Do you think it would ever have entered Boob's head that he was passing off a (beyond her control!) 'soiled dove' to future sons in law because his daughters were not (through no fault of their own!) as pure as someone who was not molested? 

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