Lori Alexander 74: Anniversary Pain

[kmachete14]

Schools weren't "made" for girls, considering boys used to be the only ones attending school. And shocker -- they had to sit way more rigidly than we (I'm a teacher) demand nowadays! 

 

[usmcmom]

I often wonder if Lori’s kids were, like their parents, very difficult young people. I winder if they were the mean girls and the bullying jocks. Posts like the one she shared today bring that idea to mind.

She portrays herself as the kind of mother who, when approached by another adult about her kids’ bad behavior, would say “My child would never....” Maybe that is why she homeschooled - other adults expected better behavior from her kids than Lori was willing to teach.  Maybe this is why she thinks “schools were not made for boys.”  Look at how she defended and bragged on Ryan for abusing his baby girl over food issues. I wonder if she justified just about anything with the young Alexander males. 
 

Jumping off the speculation bus now.   

[Imrlgoddess]

@usmcmom  I've wondered the same thing when she has talked about her children.  That she allowed them to harbor an entitled attitude around others and then laid blame on the other side when they were called out for being little assholes.  In the comments she claims that her boys weren't cut out for school so she pulled them.  They had their two hours of reading and math and then got to play and eat "they loved it".  Of course they loved it!!  What kid wouldn't want a 2 hour school day and to screw off the rest of the time....  

The fundy lite kids who live in my old neighborhood told my mom once "but we know what we know!" as if to say what little education they have is enough and the rest is irrelevant.  The statement was handed to them by their mother who dropped the ball on their homeschooling and had to scramble when people began asking if her son had graduated yet (he will 19 this year).  

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, usmcmom said:

I personally think many kids, regardless of sex can be gently taught to sit still for short periods of time by age five. I also think being unable to sit still is not limited to little boys. It is a matter of personality (and other issues that impact this) not sex.

Generally speaking, at age 5, if girls are more quiet than boys it's because they have been told to be quiet since their birth day. Even people who try to educate free of sexism, tends to play in a quieter way with baby girls, and roughly with boys. It's been studied that pregnant mothers talk softer to a female fetus than to a male one.

So yes, I believe that 5 year old boys and 5 year old girls behave different... Sadly, they have been brainwashed to. 

This said, my youngest child is 5 and both girls and boys at his classroom sit quietly for several daily activities (of course, they run and sing and play, too). Even the little ones at school, who are 3, do that. With the exception of a couple kids, everybody sits and behaves.

I find it very ironic that Lori thinks that 5 year old boys cannot sit quiet at the classroom, but expected her 5 WEEKS old babies to sleep all throught the night and had her boys playing alone and quietly in a room for hours.

[kmachete14]

Lori continues to demonstrate her poor reading comprehension regarding toxic masculinity.

Masculinity itself is not toxic. No one is saying that. 

[delphinium65]

2 hours ago, usmcmom said:

Look at how she defended and bragged on Ryan for abusing his baby girl over food issues. I wonder if she justified just about anything with the young Alexander males. 

I suspect Lori probably allowed her boys to be entitled assholes, but did her best to whip every trace of self-esteem out of the girls.  

[raspberrymint]

I see my younger self in descriptions of boys whenever people talk about how boys don't sit still and be quiet in school, and get labelled ADHD, problem kids, etc.  Girls like this get yelled at in extra doses for (truly) not being like other girls.  For not being brainwashed enough.

One of the reasons I plan to homeschool.  None of my reasons are religious, except that public schools in my area are too Christian.  

[feministxtian]

5 minutes ago, raspberrymint said:

I see my younger self in descriptions of boys whenever people talk about how boys don't sit still and be quiet in school, and get labelled ADHD, problem kids, etc.  Girls like this get yelled at in extra doses for (truly) not being like other girls.  For not being brainwashed enough.

I can't begin to tell you the beatings I got and verbal shit I got for not being "girly" by the mother. Thing is, I really don't remember her interacting with me much as a kid. She was "feminine" as hell but that's one word that will NEVER be associated with yours truly...Not tall, stocky, broad shouldered, muscular, no make up and my favorite clothes are tank tops and jeans or yoga pants. I'm decidedly a straight female, and contrary to the mother's bullshit, never had problems finding a guy (not that I am looking at this point in time). Hell, I got proof I got laid...3 times!!

The definitions of "feminine" are so incredibly stupid and sexist and damaging to those of us who don't fit in that. 

[raspberrymint]

I'm actually pretty feminine, but (according to other women, not just myself) more independent than a lot of women.  That was by necessity.  It's somewhat difficult balancing the independence I've had most of my adult life with the needs of my wife.  I'm bisexual, or pansexual, or whatever.  I've been with men and women and people who identify as non-binary.

I honestly think I think like a man in some respects, but I think that's social conditioning that translates differently in me ("messed up" when it got to me?) by way of my unusual life circumstances.  I was jealous when my wife got a job offer that made more than my job, for example.   Edit:  It's not that I hate women.  It's that my automatic reaction to anything that in my mind lessens my worth means I have less reason for others to tolerate me as a person, even if the more logical side of me knows that's not how I'm quantified to people who actually care about me.

Edited January 10, 2020 by raspberrymint
Added something

[Sweet Caroline]

8 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

Schools weren't "made" for girls, considering boys used to be the only ones attending school. And shocker -- they had to sit way more rigidly than we (I'm a teacher) demand nowadays! 

 

Lori was a teacher over a quarter of a century ago, therefore she is an expert on our current schools.

I am a fourth grade teacher in an ebil public school.  I do not insist that my students sit still.  We have math class in front of the Smart Board. The students may sit on the floor, grab a stool, use a pillow or hold a stuffed animal, or sit at their desk.  I tell them to get in a comfortable place where they can do their best learning.  I also have squishies or stress balls in buckets around the room.  

School has changed from what it was years ago.  Most teachers will accommodate their students to help them learn. Lori is a false prophet when it comes to education, er I mean, any subject really.

[usmcmom]

When my son was a freshman in high school (about 15 years ago) he told me he was so hungry in a certain class that he had a hard time concentrating.  This class was right before his lunch period. Parent/teacher conferences happened to be that week so I mentioned this to the teacher.  She very quickly said “Oh, have him bring a granola bar or pack or nuts, pretzels...a healthy snack.  In fact, I’ll just let the whole class know that is allowed.” 
 

Teachers will work with kids and families most of the time. Lori probably had a minor issue here and there, refused to speak to the teacher (or encourage her child to speak to the teacher) and instead threw a little fit and decided to homeschool.  

[raspberrymint]

I know schools are better than they were 25 years ago, but I was a teaching assistant 6 - 8 years ago in a school that had an isolation room for children with special needs and a segregated classroom for autistic students.  The segregated classroom was right next to my classroom and it was screams all day long.  I'm on the autism spectrum and so is my spouse.  We won't put our kids in public schools, despite our own misfortunes with homeschooling.  The problem there was our mothers.  We aren't like our mothers.

Edit: Yes, I asked for a transfer to the autism classroom.  I was qualified.  They said no every time.  Yes, schools like this are all over the country.

Edited January 11, 2020 by raspberrymint
Added things

[nausicaa]

On 1/10/2020 at 4:18 PM, raspberrymint said:

I'm actually pretty feminine, but (according to other women, not just myself) more independent than a lot of women...

I honestly think I think like a man in some respects, but I think that's social conditioning that translates differently in me ("messed up" when it got to me?) by way of my unusual life circumstances.

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say with either of these statements, but they sure are coming off like you're playing the "I'm a cool girl, not like those other girls" game. 

Aren't we all too old to be playing that nasty crab in the bucket game?

[AliceInFundyland]

7 hours ago, raspberrymint said:

I know schools are better than they were 25 years ago, but I was a teaching assistant 6 - 8 years ago in a school that had an isolation room for children with special needs and a segregated classroom for autistic students.  The segregated classroom was right next to my classroom and it was screams all day long.  I'm on the autism spectrum and so is my spouse.  We won't put our kids in public schools, despite our own misfortunes with homeschooling.  The problem there was our mothers.  We aren't like our mothers.

Edit: Yes, I asked for a transfer to the autism classroom.  I was qualified.  They said no every time.  Yes, schools like this are all over the country.

Schools that aren't like this are also all over the country.

I have empathy for the shit you and your spouse dealt with growing up. Really.

And I know you've mentioned that "therapy" per se isn't for you.

...95% of your posts come off as so painful and like you have wedges (not chips) on your shoulder.

The ressntment and hostility comes through.

(Spoken as someone who wrote an email yesterday telling her fami!y they don't, won't and can't ever fix me - let me be)

I have ten years on you in the holding onto the bullshit of the past game. It's not fun to be 40 and having nightmares about failing highschool. Yes, seriously. You can't walk away and bury it. I have ptsd now from all the various things I've walked away from. I thought that was the easier solution.

Then I attempted suicide a few months ago because I couldnt do it anymore

 

In my late 20s though, I thought I could just keep rebuilding or changing my circumstances.

And finally I ask you this - you say you arent like your mom?  You condemn all sorts of educational practices regularly based on what happened to you. You and your partner are neurodiverse. What if you end up with a child who has needs beyond your own? It sounds clear you'll be a great advocate! But how can you know you'll have the emotional, psych, intellect...all the challenges to do homeschooling until ylu meet your kids?

[feministxtian]

On 1/10/2020 at 1:18 PM, raspberrymint said:

I'm actually pretty feminine, but (according to other women, not just myself) more independent than a lot of women.  That was by necessity.  It's somewhat difficult balancing the independence I've had most of my adult life with the needs of my wife.  I'm bisexual, or pansexual, or whatever.  I've been with men and women and people who identify as non-binary.

I honestly think I think like a man in some respects, but I think that's social conditioning that translates differently in me ("messed up" when it got to me?) by way of my unusual life circumstances.  I was jealous when my wife got a job offer that made more than my job, for example.   Edit:  It's not that I hate women.  It's that my automatic reaction to anything that in my mind lessens my worth means I have less reason for others to tolerate me as a person, even if the more logical side of me knows that's not how I'm quantified to people who actually care about me.

Good for you. I have a seriously masculine brain (as confirmed by my shrink). I am cold, logical, analytical. The only emotion I'm good with expressing is anger. 

If you had issues with your wife getting a job making more than you, then that's YOUR problem. Anything that "lessens your worth" in your mind is bad? Sounds like you need some help with that. Your worth is not predicated on the size of your paycheck. 

Regarding being on the spectrum. I am (diagnosed and verified). I'm fucking weird as hell. Thing is, I don't give a flying fuck what people think. I didn't give a shit what the mother thought of me (she was a sick, twisted and bitter bitch anyway), I didn't give a shit what the father thought of me (he swore I was not "Feminine" enough to ever snag a man). 

I was bullied in high school for those reasons. Blue collar weird-ass ASD kid in a fancy private Catholic high school? I only went there because it gave the parents "status" that THEY weren't like the other shmoes in the neighborhood (lower middle class) who sent their kids to the public schools. I was, in some ways, their greatest embarrassment and in other ways I was their fucking trophy. 

All I give a fuck about is that I continue to be a good mother to my kids and a good grandma to the grandbabies. I've managed to accomplish that over my life and that's all the validation I need. 

[Kailash]

Has DGayle (or whatever her username was) returned yet again? ?

[raspberrymint]

13 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say with either of these statements, but they sure are coming off like you're playing the "I'm a cool girl, not like those other girls" game. 

Aren't we all too old to be playing that nasty crab in the bucket game?

Ha ha, nah, I'm saying most women weren't forced to make their own living or die on the streets.

And I don't know what my kids will need.  We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.  I trust myself more than strangers.

Regarding my wife's pay, I logically know that doesn't mean anything and I get over stuff like that in a day.  

[raspberrymint]

10 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Schools that aren't like this are also all over the country.

I have empathy for the shit you and your spouse dealt with growing up. Really.

And I know you've mentioned that "therapy" per se isn't for you.

...95% of your posts come off as so painful and like you have wedges (not chips) on your shoulder.

The ressntment and hostility comes through.

(Spoken as someone who wrote an email yesterday telling her fami!y they don't, won't and can't ever fix me - let me be)

I have ten years on you in the holding onto the bullshit of the past game. It's not fun to be 40 and having nightmares about failing highschool. Yes, seriously. You can't walk away and bury it. I have ptsd now from all the various things I've walked away from. I thought that was the easier solution.

Then I attempted suicide a few months ago because I couldnt do it anymore

 

In my late 20s though, I thought I could just keep rebuilding or changing my circumstances.

And finally I ask you this - you say you arent like your mom?  You condemn all sorts of educational practices regularly based on what happened to you. You and your partner are neurodiverse. What if you end up with a child who has needs beyond your own? It sounds clear you'll be a great advocate! But how can you know you'll have the emotional, psych, intellect...all the challenges to do homeschooling until ylu meet your kids?

I don't know how to put two quotes in one reply.  

Not every school is like that, but search for articles on isolation rooms and they will tell you that these exist all over the country.

I know therapy isn't for me based on experience.  My last attempt was last year.  For me, it's spending money to hear things I already know or can figure out on my own.

I'm not sure what your point is.  I don't think I come across as painful.  My past happened.  I've had experiences that make me different.  Not "cooler than other girls", but certainly different from many.  I'm not whining when I talk about it.  I'm just talking about it.  I think there's some classism on the boards and bringing that up sounds more whiny to me than anything else I say, but I'm not suffering or complaining.  I'm merely stating my perspective and the reasons behind it.

I'm not just condemning things that happened to me.  I've seen more happen to others.  I'll assess my children's needs when the time comes.  I don't know the future.  All I know is I want to do my best.  Edit:  If I put that disclaimer on everything, my posts would devolve into very weird wording. 

Edit 2: Oh heck, I'll tell you another story that'll be read as painful, but it is just an explanation.  When I was suicidal, I called my therapist at the time and she threatened to put me in an involuntary psych ward.  The police came.  I called my best friend, and she actually helped me.  If I were alone, I could have been seriously hurt.  I still tried therapy off and on for years.  It really isn't for me.  I'm not just saying that.  I'm only telling you this to say I'm not callously making decisions.  I'm not suicidal.  This was years ago.  I'm free from all the things that held me down back then.  The love of my best friend (and all my loved ones) and the change of scenery I gave myself saved me.  Giving me drugs to make me complacent would not have set me free.  That's not how it is for everyone, but that is how it worked for me.

Edited January 12, 2020 by raspberrymint
I'm already trying to cut out saying "I think" statements more than just saying things. Edit 2: another explanation

[rayneflower]

Oh no! She's on to us! 

Quote

People will accuse me of writing for shock value & to be provocative. NOTHING I write would be shocking just 50 years ago. People would be shocked if women had taken over half of the workforce, officiating in the NFL, & that daycare was so popular (babies not with their mamas).

5:12 PM - 11 Jan 2020

Actually Lori.....

50 years ago Women were nurses, teachers, worked in factories. More women started working 50 years ago than say 60-70 years ago. Your view point on this is very wrong. It doesn't matter if you lived during that time, other people did too and will say nearly exactly what I am saying. You lived a sheltered life, you didn't know what was going on in Middle Class America, you only know what was going on in upper class America. 

 

Actually, People would be PROUD knowing that their daughters, granddaughters, etc stood a fighting chance in the workforce instead of being walked all over. 

 

You write what you write to go viral, that's all you want. 

[raspberrymint]

My initial statement here was to say that saying boys are disadvantaged over girls hurts girls who those disadvantages do not apply to.  They're not like other girls and mistreated differently, not better (or worse) than other girls.  Lesbians aren't like most other girls because most girls are straight.  That's a fact, not a cliche.  There's overlap with the girls referenced and homophobic abuse on the belief that a girl who isn't traditionally feminine by Christian standards is a lesbian.  

I want to witness any therapy my children participate in.  Every session.  I'll be able to advocate for them if anything goes wrong much more readily that way.  This is the ideal situation.  Again, I don't know the actual future.

Edited January 12, 2020 by raspberrymint
The "because most girls are straight" bit. Don't want any more confusion.

[kpmom]

5 hours ago, rayneflower said:

50 years ago Women were nurses, teachers, worked in factories. More women started working 50 years ago than say 60-70 years ago. Your view point on this is very wrong. It doesn't matter if you lived during that time, other people did too and will say nearly exactly what I am saying. You lived a sheltered life, you didn't know what was going on in Middle Class America, you only know what was going on in upper class America. 

 

 

I'm around Lori's age, grew up in the 60's.  By the late 1960's there was exactly one mom in our neighborhood (a working class neighborhood) who was a sahm.  The rest of us were latchkey kids.  These mom's weren't feminists (the word wasn't widely used back then), they were just trying to make a living for their families and themselves.

You're absolutely right about her only knowing about upper class America.

[Sarah92]

Lori is widely ignorant of history. Women always worked, it’s just that work may or may not have been from the home, in other’s homes, or at job. Childhood also looked completely different than it does now. What Lori preaches from is a 1950s and above, white American point of view. Her message isn’t something that applies globally and if it doesn’t apply globally is it really the gospel? 

[Hane]

@rayneflower, actually, nearly 80 years ago, at the start of WWII, there was a huge upswing in the number of women in the workforce. My mom, who graduated high school in 1941 and started working at Travelers Insurance that year, said that it was the single biggest influence on women’s lives that she’d ever encountered.

(My biggest influence was widespread birth control, which has given women greater control over their working and educational lives and ability to earn and invest their own money.)

[onemama]

On 1/10/2020 at 5:52 PM, kmachete14 said:

Schools weren't "made" for girls, considering boys used to be the only ones attending school. And shocker -- they had to sit way more rigidly than we (I'm a teacher) demand nowadays! 

 

Exactly.

 

On 1/10/2020 at 7:34 PM, Melissa1977 said:

I find it very ironic that Lori thinks that 5 year old boys cannot sit quiet at the classroom,

And she thinks that they should sit through 45-60 minute preachings that they don't understand. Lori doesn't believe in Sunday School for kids. 

Most schools don't expect children to sit quietly and listen for long periods of time and children are always allowed to raise their hands to ask questions, they are called to the front, are given tasks to complete, etc... a lot of boys do very well in school!

[Melissa1977]

16 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I have a seriously masculine brain (as confirmed by my shrink). I am cold, logical, analytical. The only emotion I'm good with expressing is anger. 

Please stop saying there is a masculine brain. There isn't. Just because men hasn't been allowed to show emotions, does not mean they aren't passional, warm or absolutely illogical. Male minds can be a mess (female ones, too). And for women being analytical and logical, I have met more women like that than "illogicals".